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TheBimpo@reddit

I'd imagine this happens in most languages. That is, people who aren't native speakers struggling to keep up with context and tone.

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I spent a fair amount of time on the East Coast as a kid. Grew up with a dad from Boston. Now I’m on the West Coast and I have no idea how to deal with the indirectness. Same country completely different way of communicating. People do not get my dry humor. They take all of my sarcasm though. 😝

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JohnHazardWandering@reddit

I miss working with New Yorkers.

"Fuck you. No. Absolutely not.

How was your weekend? How's the wife?"

No hate. Nothing personal, just their over emphasized directness.

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Shazam1269@reddit

LOL, Midwesterner here and I used to support insurance agents all over the United States for IT, and supporting the East Coast was always jarring. If someone from the Midwest spoke to me like they do, it would be considered offensive and confrontational, but from them it was just their blunt, fast-paced lifestyle. It was emotionally taxing each time I supported east coast users, at least at first.

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Budsygus@reddit

I'm learning Japanese and was taught the way to say no was something like "Sore wa chotto..." Which means "That's a little..." and just trail off. Apparently that's accepted universally as a firm no. Actually SAYING no (iie) is apparently only ever done when someone pays you a compliment. "Oh, your Japanese is so good!" The proper response is "No, no, no..."

Japanese is a funny language.

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Precursor@reddit

Fellow east coaster here. I work in big tech, got laid off from a SoCal company, and got hired by another east coast tech company. It felt like coming home just because of the attitude shift 😂

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I used to work with Japanese suppliers in a manufacturing/factory setting, and that dynamic was very hard to deal with.

I would send them a timeline of when we would need shipments and how much of each part number, etc. And I would ask that they confirm if these amounts and dates were doable/OK.

They always responded with yes, no problem. We will meet this schedule.

But then they would return the schedule to me with all kinds of alterations. Reductions i quantities, dates moved out, etc..

I remember feeling very frustrated and going back and forth with them, and the result was always apology, agreement but then deflection

I was pretty new and my boss sat me down one day when I had been complaining and explained to me just how they work.

He told me they will never tell you outright they can’t meet your schedule.

They will say they will meet it, but then their real capabilities will be communicated subtly, and if you point out the difference, as if it was a mistake or a deficiency on their side, it will be offensive to them

We vibe but I'm hella tired and value my alone time or I would have suggested a date and time and place. Please accept that we won't be friends and know that I don't care to hang, please don't ask for my contact info. I will truly be happy to run into you at the next event unless you make it awkward, don't make it awkward.

Or-

Stop by anytime! Love to see you!

Translation-

But only within reason and never on weekends or weekdays. This should be obvious because I never invite you over with any regularity. Unless it's an emergency. But call first and make it short, we don't care for company.

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Schmoo88@reddit

I feel like how the winters in WA play a big part in this. Winter time, it’s 3 pm and dark & wet. I do want to hang out with people, I just don’t want to leave the house. Summer time is when plans happen. I’ve been able to beat my natural winter hibernation for the past few years but it takes so much work to get others on board but it happens! Just gotta be persistent. You have to initiate the first few tries. After that, it either becomes a more consistent thing or just give up on it

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leavesandgrassart@reddit

I live in the PNW and I’ve had people do this to me but I thought it was just an annoying individual thing not a PNW thing. I’ll see someone at work who I have mutual friends with and I’ll say hi and they go “omg miss you! We should hang out!” And I’m kinda like mhm bc I know they don’t mean it. And I wasn’t saying hi to them for that reason anyways… like I’m just being polite because we know each other.

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SolidEntertainer7880@reddit

I'm sorry. It's a truly stupid thing we do. That can't be fun to experience.

I like to low key pretend the Friendship Freezers are all DB Cooper on the run or maybe they are living a life in witness protection and that's why they do the passive aggressive dance. Because, dang, this is not how you go about making friends and it's not terribly polite either. 🤷

Katee Sackhoff said that Oregonians make their friends in kindergarten and then we don't even try to make any other friends. She's not wrong.

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GreasiestGuy@reddit

So what do they say when they actually like you and how do you tell the difference?

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leavesandgrassart@reddit

You can usually tell because their inflection and tone actually meets their actions. Like a genuine interaction will be with someone who has actually made effort to hang out with you and speak with you. While a phony interaction is with someone who you might kind of know or have just met and they’re trying to be nice so they go “omg we should hang out!”… I always find this annoying because I don’t say stuff I don’t mean.

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phoenixliv@reddit

I’m not freezing, I’m just bad at making a plan. Even my loved ones get “we should really hang out omg!”

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SolidEntertainer7880@reddit

Tl;dr- Enthusiasm and an actionable offer.

This reminds me of a Japanese teacher I used to have. She was explaining to us once the cultural differences between how American and Japanese people use language, telling us how in Japan you usually dance around certain kinds of questions or answers, whereas those of us from the USA (and other countries of course, she was just specifically talking to and about us) tend to just say whatever we need, give a clear yes or no, etc. I had heard many times over the years that Americans are seen as very direct by the Japanese but it didn't fully click for me until then, because even when we learn Japanese, we still naturally speak more like we're from the USA and that's just SO direct in their culture. Fascinating stuff, really. But also so confusing unless someone explains.

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No_Walk_Town@reddit

There's definitely some exotification going on there, because if you actually live in Japan, you'll find that people are extremely direct and the language is comically blunt - it's just direct and blunt at different times in different ways.

It's not some mystical thing about, oh, they're so subtle and mysterious. It's more about tact and manners.

I mean, there's some pragmatics at work there - one thing I like to talk about is how every statement in Japan is taken as an announcement of intent.

So if I say to my wife as she's cooking dinner, "Hm, I want ice cream!" she hears, "Fuck your dinner, I'm going out for ice cream!"

Japanese people will also let you make massive mistakes without telling you. They won't correct you because you said you were doing it.

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Financial_Emphasis25@reddit

Oh, that is just like my Japanese boss. I’ll do something I think he’s asked me to do, but it turns out it isn’t what he wanted, but he doesn’t just tell me outright that it was wrong. It can get so frustrating. I did notice how he tells someone “no”, he just doesn’t respond to them either via email, phone, or in person. In person he’ll just dismiss you saying he can’t think about it now but never gets back to you. He’s been in the US for 10 years now but is still very much Japanese.

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Mepaes@reddit

Japanese American here. Even at about 4th generation in America, some of us still do that. I never understood why my white friends, colleagues, etc would explicitly tell me that it’s okay to say, “no” or to be direct (not passive).

General rule of thumb…”I’ll think about it” = it ain’t happening.

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vovinvritra@reddit

That's honestly a relief. I was just going off what an actual Japanese woman told me, I had never thought anything like that myself until SHE, our teacher, said this multiple times.

I have visited Japan but never lived there and also I definitely don't speak Japanese well enough to know those nuances, just enough for getting by on travels.

I really don't have an "ooo mystical other cultures" take on things but I AM susceptible to believing what someone born into that world tells me about it.

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Gyvon@reddit

They will say they will meet it, but then their real capabilities will be communicated subtly,

Subtle? Sending you an edited schedule is about as subtle as a flying mallet.

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CupBeEmpty@reddit

I worked with a lot of Asian coworkers and the amount of flat “yes” that I got that meant “well, no not really and probably hard no” was really high.

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amd2800barton@reddit

That’s the reason that many Asian companies will hire a foreigner (typically an American or a Brit) whose job it is to basically be the straight shooter. Some white guy who knows he’s never going to be CEO of the company and comes from a culture where saying “no way in hell we can meet that deadline” to your boss is par for the course.

Heck for a little while my dad had a position like that. He worked for a single American company almost his whole career. But then after decades there, his entire division was outsourced to India. The Indian company hired a tiny handful of Americans to be their “technical consulting experts” or some similar position. Eventually, a big chunk of dad’s job became just being on calls, and listening to people who were experts get shouted over by project managers or other non-experts. The expert was usually someone very skilled, but from a lower caste. Dad would go look in to the problem, message the expert, and step in on the call and say “hey we need to listen to ”. Then all of a sudden people were willing to listen. All because some old American guy who didn’t care about or really understand the weird classism/racism thing going on between his overseas colleagues pointed out that the expert needed to be consulted.

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jlt6666@reddit

I would excel at this job. I love telling people they are wrong and need to listen to the smart guy.

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CupBeEmpty@reddit

That’s interesting if not more than a bit sad.

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raviyoli@reddit

Wow, I am really surprised to hear this! I worked in a Japanese owned company for 8 years; we were an even mix of Japanese ex-patriots and Americans, and my experience was just the opposite. They were always clear, structured, and never changed terms of an agreement - that part was actually part of my mandatory cultural training when I joined the company and was taken very seriously. And even despite the (sometimes) language barrier, communications and decisions were always very well thought out, and sensible. I really enjoyed working there and only left because I got divorced and my whole situation changed.

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No_Walk_Town@reddit

mandatory cultural training

A really basic, fundamental idea in anthropology is that there is a HUGE difference between what people will tell you their culture is like vs. what their culture is actually like.

Japanese people especially spend a lot of time talking about their culture, but without ever viewing it from the outside. (Americans, on the other hand, constantly hear what others think of our culture.)

So if you talk about time keeping and scheduling, they'll tell you, "We Japanese are always on time, and it is an important cultural value to us [unlike you foreigners, who need us to train you]."

But if you actually pay attention, Japanese people will usually start things on time, but they always end things extremely late.

There's a BIG difference between "this is what we value" vs. "this is what we do." They are not, in fact, always on time and frankly do not care.

One concept here is monochronic vs. polychronic - basically doing one thing at a time in a space vs. doing multiple things in a space.

Polychronic usually means valuing relationships over punctuality - so a Japanese business meeting is both a meeting and also a social call. So you might start at 3PM sharp, but the meeting ends when everyone is good and ready to finish up their conversations and all the teams have popped their head in to say hi.

But if you ask then, they'll tell you yes, of course, we Japanese are always punctual (they are not).

Business agreements are traditionally similar - verbal agreements are binding here because you're expected to be constantly hashing out your interpersonal relationship with your supplier as you go. It's actually a HUGE problem for us dealing with overseas clients because they often hold us to much higher standards of compliance than Japan is used to.

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raviyoli@reddit

I hear you. But definitely this was untrue where I worked. It really was profesh through and through.

And the training was for both cultures, and beneficial, at least for me. They did make an effort to assimilate as well. Wasn’t one sided in my experience.

I was there for 8 years.

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No_Walk_Town@reddit

As an American working in corporate Japan, this is so fascinating to me, because we are constantly telling our customers in no uncertain terms that something is impossible and they always come back with some variation of, "Great, thanks, expecting it by then."

And it's like, I literally just said it's impossible.

Part of it is that Japanese communication is built on certainty and clarity - "it's difficult" doesn't mean "no" because Japanese can't give a straight answer.

It really means, "this is possible but I can't state with 100% certainty that I can do it, therefore I will not."

You experience this most in retail - ask a store clerk for maroon paint and they'll give a flat refusal - don't have it. But if you go and look for yourself, they'll have to s of dark red paint.

Are they lying? No - you didn't ask for dark red paint and they can't be 100% sure dark red will meet your needs, so instead of asking, "Is dark red ok?" they say, "lol, no."

They could tell you, but they don't know if it's what you want to hear, so they don't.

Another thing is how intention is communicated. To a Japanese person, if you say, "I want to do this," they hear, "It is my intention to do this whether you like it or not." I have started fights with people by casually mentioning something I wish I had. "What do you mean you're leaving for ice cream???" No, I just said I wanted ice cream.

For scheduling, one possible miscommunication may be that you say, "We start on May 20th." The Japan side says, "Ok."

You hear, "We will have your materials by the 20th."

What the Japanese person actually meant was, "lol, ok, you do that." The material will not be ready by then. But you said you were going to do it - they're not going to stop you.

And again, I've started fights with people here by saying I would do something they didn't want me to, and they just let me because they heard, "I'm doing this no matter what."

There's a lot of subtlety to human communication - the example my linguistics professor gave us was, imagine your dad walks into your bedroom and says, "Garbage can in the kitchen is full."

You know he wants you to take out the garbage without him telling you.

You might sneer and say, "ok." You aren't agreeing to it, you're saying no. Uh, ok, it's full. Sucks for you.

That's the kind of problem you're butting up against. They say "ok," but it's more like they're just acknowledging that you have a problem and ignoring it.

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Vyckerz@reddit

Yeah, basically your last paragraph is what I was running into.

When they were saying, yes, no problem. I guess they were saying OK we understand your needs, but doesn’t mean you’re gonna get it.

And then later on sending a confirmation that doesn’t match my needs was just them telling me OK here’s what we can do. The rest is your problem.

But I think there was also the component of saving face because they were really obligated to meet our needs as long as they were within a reasonable window and we were within that reasonable window. It’s just that for various reasons they couldn’t meet those commitments exactly as we needed.

But to say “no” right out would’ve been embarrassing to them in that context

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No_Walk_Town@reddit

I kinda want to push back on the "saving face" thing, though, because, in my experience, it's more like the American idea of "tact."

It's like the difference between saying, "Sorry, gotta use the restroom" vs. "Sorry, I'm about to shit my pants." You don't need to say that much detail.

What I mean is, when I email a client to tell them we can't meet their deadline because we fucked up - my boss is just like, "Right, but don't tell them we fucked up."

I don't really feel like it's that much different than American culture. It's not really "saving face" as much as it's "I'm not going to overshare." Don't tell your client that you shit your pants.

Which ties into what I'm saying about intent - if I tell you I'm about to shit my pants, you might think I need help and stop me to ask if I need some medicine. No, dude, I need to go now!

If I tell a customer, "Sorry, we fucked up," it will communicate an intention - maybe an intent to discuss it with them, maybe an intent to offer compensation.

Apologizing will set off a chain reaction - because I'm communicating intent to do something about the fuck up. We're not saving face, we just don't want to deal with the fuck up right now. We need to keep moving.

We aren't embarrassed or anything like that. We just can't do shit about the problem and talking about it won't change that and we don't want to deal with the bullshit.

I've never seen my coworkers act embarrassed because we couldn't meet a customer's deadline, they're usually just shit-talking them for bothering us.

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Lobster70@reddit

Enlightening! My first email tomorrow will be to inform my boss that 23 and Me says I'm 1% Japanese, and I will be building on that heritage by adopting the Japanese approach to scheduling and deadlines. And I'll be very offended if any deficiencies are ever mentioned.

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todododo@reddit

What did you have to do to get real timelines or quantities?

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Vyckerz@reddit

They sent them, but sort of like, "Here you go, we are confirming what you asked for". When that wasn't what I asked for.

Like they won't out and out say, we can't meet your needs. But they expect you to get that it's the best they can do without having to say it.

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blackhawk905@reddit

I wonder if a "here's a goal of what I'd like, what is the best that you can do" approach is any different or if there is still that cultural/language barrier in that regard. Since you didn't mention that I'm sure it is but I'm just curious.

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MortalSword_MTG@reddit

Perhaps a more demonstrative examplenwould be something like:

US Rep: We need 500 parts shipped by June 25th.

JP Rep: Yes, of course. We will ship 250 parts by June 25th.

They have politely adjusted your expectation without admitting fault or their inability to comply. Saving face is huge in most East Asian and South Asian cultures.

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Vyckerz@reddit

Yeah, I mean that is basically what it boils down to.

My mistake before was not understanding the cultural aspect. For a US supplier, they would say, "no we can't do that, here's what I can do", right up front.

AllKnowingFix@reddit

I just took it as a near the ocean sort of surfer attitude thing.

Me as a purchaser from TX, ended up on top of a vibration table in FL, unbolting equipment at my supplier. Because my test guy had something and left without telling anyone else, thinking I'd just leave, but I only had 1 more day for travel and wanted to get a couple more tests in at the end of the day to make sure I kept my flight home.

RedIsAwesome@reddit

This dude totally gets what it's like here

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Mean_Butter@reddit

Man, I’m a Midwesterner and I’m incredibly direct. Probably to my detriment. But I feel like although Chicago is midwestern, we have a different way.

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PraetorianOfficial@reddit

I grew up out thar. One day on voice chat online someone new to our little group told a story from work about him being a racist POS. Then he states "that's not racist--I just had to do it". There is total silence. So he asks me "do you think I'm racist"? Without dropping a beat I let fly "OF COURSE YOU'RE A RACIST! You can't do that crap and then say 'it doesn't count because...'" He whines and sputters and then leaves. He never returned.

The entire group exploded in laughter. "He asked the WRONG person if he didn't want a direct and honest answer."

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serious_sarcasm@reddit

Traditionally, the birds are warblers and sparrows, but in this room it's pheasants and bulbuls. The name of the room means "the birds don't match", which is a homophone for "I won't entertain you".

It's possible, but it's hard to tell from context, especially in textual form. And since there are other common American phrases that Germans do take more literally for cultural reasons ("How are you?" being an actual request for detailed info rather than just a phatic expression being the classic example), I couldn't be sure this wasn't someone actually claiming that. I think if it were more exaggerated I would've been more likely to have assumed it was a joke.

The funnier response from me would ofc be that living for several year in Germany has turned me into a humorless killjoy. But that joke would work too much against my point 😅

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Emotional_Tip3888@reddit

That was a great hypothetical but I also thought it read it as if it was a real-life example because the way you phrased it was not as clear as you may have intended

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keelanstuart@reddit

While I wholeheartedly agree with you about German humor being subtle and nuanced sometimes, "biß später" is more like "until later" not "see you later". "Until" doesn't beg a question.

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sparksbet@reddit

"Bis später" literally means "until later", but it and "see you later" are both used more or less identically in conversation. Neither of them "begs a question", as they're both usual utterances in their respective languages used in pretty much identical contexts, and they are widely understood by native speakers (and any learners who have gotten past the basics, in my experience).

I know enough Spanish to get me by in retail, but the languages I'm really gunning for are Japanese and French. I work retail in WA, close enough to Canada and Seattle both (at a midway point for Canadians heading towards Seattle; the time on I-5 is about the same in either direction) that I get in the Canadians, Canda's international travelers, and Seattle's international travelers. So I am hearing a lot of a lot of languages. I've picked up on tidbits over the years, even had some customers teach me things, can generally understand what most people are conversing about.

This is all just fluff to say that all flies out the window the moment they start talking more comfortably with me. Idk wtf this excited japanese man is talking about, throwing out new words and changing his tone beyond what I'm accustomed to. Customers that (for some reason) think I'm hispanic will start slinging out slang talking a lightyear a second as if I'm supposed to know wtf they're talking about. It's second nature to them. And I'm just standing there like "🧍‍♂️Uhhuh, uhhuh....Okay, now, one more time in English. Or we can try google. Literally, anything but what you just did."

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Adorable_Dust3799@reddit

I have learned to speak spanish very badly just to make them speak more slowly for me

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creatyvechaos@reddit

I learned 20 years ago from my Mexican neighbor that "habla un poquito espanol" ("I speak a little/very little spanish") works wonders. Works 9/10 times. Gotta say it pretty badly though because any slight accent and they go "ahhhhhhhhh but you're lying, is what you're doing."

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Adorable_Dust3799@reddit

Yeah, mangleing the accent is key

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Intrepid_Practice956@reddit

I've had a similar problem. Ive always had a good ear for accents/pronunciation, but that often means when I speak the few words of Spanish I know, or read something out loud in Spanish, they think I really speak Spanish and unload with a very fast response. Years ago we had a patient who spoke only Spanish argue with a coworker of mine that "He didn't speak Spanish, SHE (pointing at me) speaks Spanish".

theimmortalgoon@reddit

It’s different.

I live between the US and Ireland and have my whole life. The Irish (who I realize aren’t British, but have a similar difference between the US and themselves) would pride themselves on being sarcastic, but would often miss when I was being sarcastic.

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metricfan@reddit

I feel this way about watching British comedies! lol I’m like taking the office characters at face value. lol

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I think that’s the stage a lot of language learners live in for a long time. functional communication but zero subtlety. I can survive conversations, joke a little, but nuance or sarcasm related stuff is where my brain starts buffering

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kallan-greshampdmi7@reddit (OP)

yeah honestly that makes sense. i think the hard part isn’t the english itself anymore, it’s the rhythm/social timing around it. like understanding when something is sarcastic fast enough to react naturally

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papa-hare@reddit

Yeah it absolutely does

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Past_Worker_8262@reddit

This right here. 👏

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sorry_con_excuse_me@reddit

Yeah idk, I mean Spanish is my second language and this “shit got real for a sec” happens too.

Maybe OP is just some Scandinavian weirdo or something.

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Elivagara@reddit

Yes, but I'm autistic and understanding social stuff is not where I shine.

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baalroo@reddit

Yeah, that's really common for us. In fact, we often do this on purpose to release tension in a conversation.

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clarkesanders1000@reddit

I had a very difficult work meeting today, and I intentionally tried to work jokes into the conversation, even planned some in advance. Because I knew I was going in angry and was going to come across as aggressive. The humor helped smooth it out.

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juanzy@reddit

I run a lot of large scale and/or high-level audience meetings. I use that to reset when we switch between topics and make it conversational. It's been called out as one of my best skills in multiple reviews, even by SVPs in my organization because it helps keep these meetings relatable.

But you're never entirely sure

I was 6, staying at my grandparents' house in Oshkosh. Grandpa is very German-American, stoic, stiff. Every time I hugged him, he'd poke my side and tickle me - deadpan, completely straight faced.

One day, during the EAA Fly-In, we heard a plane overhead - we knew there was a B-17 bomber at the show, so we were running out to check every plane we heard overhead to see it.

Ask grandpa to come out with us, he says no. "I saw enough of them during the war."

I run out the door, down the patio stairs, half-eaten banana in hand. I slip, I fall, the banana tumbles out of my hand onto the ground. I cry. I go to throw the banana away.

Grandpa stops me. Eat that banana, he says. I refuse, it's dirty.

"I fought in the war so you could have that banana. Eat it."

I am 42 now. Grandpa died 24 years ago.

To this day, I do not know if he was joking.

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Psychological-Way268@reddit

I cannot stop laughing at this.

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secondmoosekiteer@reddit

I got a write-up once for saying "no" to the third key at gamestop... obv i was going to put up the stack of cases and did so in a tomely fashion. I just can't do it without snark, it sustains me. Manager was like "...oh. Duh. What's his problem?" But he'd already documented it.

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-blundertaker-@reddit

One of my favorite moments in an employee review meeting was my boss saying he is comfortable leaving me in charge because he knows the place won't burn down by accident.

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athenamarz@reddit

Anytime someone asks me to do something my immediate response is no. Jokingly.

srobbinsart@reddit

The common compliment/complaint I hear is we USlanders are incredibly good at disarming small talk with complete strangers.

Me: That movie was hilarious. Laughed my ass off.

Me, two minutes later: The doctor told me I have two months to live.

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xSwampxPopex@reddit

Pretty good prognosis for a laughed off ass honestly.

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wfbhp@reddit

I'm sorry for your bad news and wish you the best. But at least you've still got time for a few more movies.

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GozyNYR@reddit

“Do other non-Americans struggle with this too?” (It’s ask an American, so most of us have the American perspective.)

Crazycatlover@reddit

My automatic response would be along the lines of, "I appreciate you saying that, but I know what I did."

I feel slow because the wit is so sharp and fast.

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ServiceDragon@reddit

We are not a serious country.

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No_Walk_Town@reddit

I live in Japan and my coworkers will introduce me to people by saying "Most of what he says is a lie."

They think my jokes are just me telling lies.

It's funny but also annoying, because I'm not sure if they know how insulting it is to a midwest American to be called a liar.

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TheJokersChild@reddit

Is your name Joe Isuzu, by chance?

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MattieShoes@reddit

Yeah, but I imagine it's common in most languages.

LeatherDaddyLonglegs@reddit

My favorite thing to do is tell my husband, super deadpan, that no one really knows why WWII started. Shorts his brain out every time.

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Senior-Deer-3249@reddit

My favorite is to pick inane things that don't come up in conversation where he can prove i know things haha. Tbf to him, typically i'm only a shithead when we're a couple drinks in, but most recently I rage baited him into thinking i dont know what a thumbnail is lmao. I just kept being like, why would they call a tiny picture a thumbnail, that doesnt make any logical sense, it's an icon because it's iconography of the content behind it! Took him like 10 minutes to realize I was fucking with him 😂

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pahshaw@reddit

That's so good! I love deadpan fucking with people like this.

sarcasm, parody and dark-humor are endemic.

There's a reason someone had to come up with Poe's Law.

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AllPeopleAreStupid@reddit

As an American that does sarcasm all the time, I can confirm there are a lot of people that do not understand. I’ve actually had to tone it back a bit because people I would say things that in my mind were so absurd someone shouldn’t take it seriously and they do. I’m like no I’m not being serious. lol. Too many gullible people. My mother does not detect sarcasm very well at all, like almost never.

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Ronnoc527@reddit

Americans usually have a slight inflection when being sarcastic. British people typically do not so it would be even harder to catch if you aren't a native.

This also leads to British people thinking that Americans don't understand sarcasm.

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tiimsliim@reddit

I’m always serious, even when I’m joking.

Most Americans are bilingual. We know English and sarcasm.

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jakerooni@reddit

Topanga from Boy Meets World, but then later I realized I just wanted her to be my friend and that my real crush was actually Matthew Lawerence. Still is.

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GoddessOfOddness@reddit

The British love throwing in sarcastic or witty comments and delivering them completely deadpan.

More than one of my Brit friends have asked why we don’t have senses of humor in the US. We do, we just don’t all like dry humor.

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CalmRip@reddit

Different culture. Americans might use dry humor with friends, but what the Brits consider banter with just-met acquaintances could get somebody decked in the U.S.

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jade420420@reddit

Yeah their humor (humour if you love extra vowels) is just being an ass mostly. And then they can have a nice gotcha moment when you say it and they can say how humorless you are.

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MissDisplaced@reddit

Yes, Americans love to talk. About anything. And I think it’s true we switch quickly between jokes and pop culture references. “It’s like, you know .. “

Sarcasm is dangerous in text, especially if someone doesn't know you well... like really well.

I know my brother-in-law pretty well, and his quirks, I can pick out his sarcasm on text. If my coworker sent me something sarcastic I might think they're being a dick.

CupBeEmpty@reddit

Yes. I have gotten in trouble my entire life for joking in otherwise serious conversation and I have to restrain myself from doing it in all kinds of situations.

It really doesn’t help that I deal with trauma with humor and not everyone appreciates that.

Eastern-Joke-7537@reddit

Yes.

😂

😠

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PrimaryHighlight5617@reddit

Hi! I struggle with this when it is dry humor but I am also autistic.

One time this old guy said he was a pastor in passing and I took it at face value and asked him about what that looked like day-to-day. Turns out he was joking because in his mind the idea that he would be a pastor was ridiculous to him. No clue why. Whatever.

Many cases where old people just lie but you're just supposed to know they are lying somehow and that's the whole joke.

"I ran a marathon last month!" Okay, you're a little pudgy but that's believable.

Like, I get the joke is sarcasm but it isn't even funny.

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Lost-Time-3909@reddit

Ha, having been on the opposite end of this conversation, yes and no. I know we’re more sarcastic and dry than a lot of cultures and that humor is the hardest thing to translate well. That said, I don’t realize just how much I do it until I’m with people in a different culture and needing to constantly clarify what I meant.

That's really good! I've had a lot of really sarcastic friends so in my four decades I've mostly, though not always, learned to read that, as long as it's tone and not facial expression.

dcgrey@reddit

Wait til OP encounters the old "But seriously, folks..." move in stand-up comedy.

Widespread Use: Sarcasm is a common, everyday, and sometimes "second language" form of humor used across the US.

Cultural Nuance: While widespread, its usage varies; for instance, Northeastern Americans (such as near Boston) are often considered more direct and sarcastic, while Southern Americans may prioritize politeness, making sarcasm less frequent.

Fast-Paced Switching: Americans frequently switch between joking (including sarcasm) and being serious in conversation, which can be challenging for non-natives to follow.

Not Always Understood by Others: While Americans use sarcasm frequently, they are sometimes seen as missing or misinterpreting sarcasm from other cultures, particularly when it is highly subtle or deadpan.

Different from British Sarcasm: American sarcasm is often used as a tool to be funny or engaging in social settings, whereas some observers find British sarcasm to be more frequently used as a "shield or weapon".

Cultural Sensitivity: Some observers suggest that American sarcasm can sometimes come across as blunt or hurtful, as it may be less subtle than in other regions. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]

Automatic_Syrup_2935@reddit

Something I've realized is that American English is such a tonal language. Like we genuinely don't use that many words to say something but the meaning of what you're saying is entirely dependent on tone.

OP: where are you from and how do people use humor there?

In your example, he made a joke about the weather. And then what happened? I don’t see how he switched to anything quickly? Did you want him to keep telling jokes like a stand-up comedian? Or do you expect no jokes at all?

I would think humor is always difficult to follow when it’s not your native language & culture. It does not seem like an America-specific issue. Im sure other countries also have humor.

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popfilms@reddit

Yeah. Makes life more interesting.

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My Swiss son-in-law is very good at doing this as well. It has almost become a competition between us.

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Moosebouse@reddit

I’d guess that the issue here is that you’re not speaking your native language. If someone said “perfect weather” in a downpour in your native language, would you be confused as to whether they were joking? Probably not.

But everyone has difficulty picking up on jokes, subtlety, and nuance in languages that are less comfortable for them. I could never pick up on sarcasm easily in any language other than English, but in English I have no problems and I am very prone to sarcasm and dry humor.

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Unusual_Memory3133@reddit

I have no idea what you mean - just kidding!

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Minute-Of-Angle@reddit

Yes and no. Yes in that, once you call it to our attention, we are forced to be aware and acknowledge this fact. No in that we do it at a subconscious level and for people who speak English as a second language and/or are from a less sarcastic culture it must be maddening. We rely on context clues and tone to indicate when we are being sincere vs sarcastic, and if people lack the context they’re at a real disadvantage in figuring it out.

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