Passed up for lead promotion
Posted by daze2turnt@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 80 comments
There used to be two tech leads a long time ago on my team back when I was a junior. One got promoted, the other took over all responsibilities.
When I joined, there was a lot of restructuring and the result was a brand new team. The old team was mostly contractors and the new team was new contractors and myself.
Eventually, we hired one more developer who I would say was “on my level” in terms of productivity.
So the tech lead took a manager promotion and stopped development.
Me and the other dev essentially became the new leads without a title. Everyone would come to us, high priority tickets handled by us, software designed by us, support call escalations involved us near the end of the chain, etc.
Fast forward another year and our manager decided not to promote either of us and hire someone a level above us.
What gives? Now this new guy, doesn’t know our stack, is very slow and is still picking stuff up and most importantly can’t lead…
This latest release we lost several devs including the one who was competing with me for a promotion (since he didn’t get it…) and all of a sudden everything is on me and up to me.
Has this happened to you before? Or been on the other side and decided not to promote the leads you trained? What could be some reasons? When I asked my manager he just mentioned we lacked experience.
Material-Smile7398@reddit
Yes, they brought in a front end specialist, when only 5% of our codebase is FE. Classic case of upper management not knowing/asking the right people.
ninetofivedev@reddit
Story as old as time.
Find a new job or deal with it. Wish I had better advice.
Akrylicus@reddit
Hoestly I was never bitter about slow career progression cause it always caused me to seek other jobs, and I always better for it.
Loyalty today means Jack shit for companies.
numice@reddit
But have you felt frustration from slow career progression in a tough job market like this?
Material_Policy6327@reddit
Yeah this is how I view it.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Yeah it’s cool. I mean I keep my options open and I am not bitter about it. Just don’t fully understand
Infamous_Ruin6848@reddit
Common reasons I see: harder to explain raise to higher management in order to align to salary of someone new. Some salaries of people stay so low that it's too expensive to promote them. It also creates a void. Is there anyone already ready to pick up your work?
AbstractLogic@reddit
It happens to the best of us. Nothing to understand. Anyone can speculate why they picked an outsider over an insider but no one will know except the person who made the selection.
So, ask for a raise for supporting the new team lead, or go job hunting and get a raise that way.
Independent-Fun815@reddit
Op hasn't provided a complete story. There's no second side. Is OP a contractor? Is OP working on a product that doesn't really matter to the business? Are the releases minimal?
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Not a contractor. The “product” is a X-as-a-service product and the particular component I work on is important to the system.
The releases are non trivial and our team spends almost $1m/yr on R&D.
CherryChokePart@reddit
Correct. Don't trust a company with what's best for your career.
PeaceCandle69@reddit
Yep, it (majorly) sucked at the time and was a crisis of ego at the time. On the upside, the guy that got Lead now has a lot more stress, meetings, and regularly vents about how he has no time to spend making cool shit. And as a Senior, my life is super chill, few meetings, get to basically code all day with few distractions.
bucket13@reddit
Were you not part of the interview process?
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Yes, I helped hire our new lead. I mean, I don’t feel entitled to the position but it just made sense since most devs already look to me for answers
notmsndotcom@reddit
You keep saying things like that. Devs looking to your for answers and them “preferring” you doesn’t mean anything at all.
Just because you have historical knowledge, and obviously more than someone that just joins, doesn’t mean you are qualified to be a tech lead. If anything, them coming to your for answers could be a sign that your codebase, documentation, dx, etc are lacking—all of which you could have solved but instead became the institutional knowledge.
5YOE and only being at a single company is a pretty tough sell to be a technical leader. Technical breadth of knowledge comes from seeing lots of different problems, lots of different teams, stacks, engineering culture, how things evolve over time at those companies, etc. It would be pretty hard to have that breadth of experience only working at a single company.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Perhaps you’re right and I’m not experienced enough. My other problem is I’m stuck in this position. I’ve asked for other types of work only to be told I’m needed here.
notmsndotcom@reddit
This is the tell town sign that you hold too much institutional knowledge. To get past this stage you need to write more with as broad of an audience as you can.
Write documentation. Write technical design docs. Write about various risks. Write about engineering culture and some places where it might be lacking. Write pitches for refactors, how to tackle tech debt, etc. Offer to present findings on various things during all-hands.
Plastic_Scale3966@reddit
been there. still don’t understand why and i dont really care. moved to a different job with way better pay. please leave yours , and dont have any hopes in the next cycle, thats just gonna make u feel ok with being in ur current position
KittenMittenz1@reddit
Same thing happened to me last year. I had many advocates but it came down to management feeling I didn’t have enough years of experience and finding an external hire whose resume was a perfect match…
The poor fella ended up walking into a legacy code minefield, not understanding the business, and being PIP’ed unfortunately. I still handle all the priority tasks and most cross-team work.
MDCore@reddit
I can't tell the timeline here. It sounds like you were a junior only a few years ago? Did your manager say what kind of experience they were expecting in a team lead, that you didn't have? Does the new guy have that experience?
MaleficentCow8513@reddit
This a good q. OP says they were a junior. Typically tech leads are senior or higher.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
I was hired on as a jr but I’ve been promoted several times. I’m definitely mid tier hovering senior.
I lead other developers, set best practices, and plan projects
5YOE
jl2352@reddit
I’d honestly hesitate to say you should be a lead after 5 years in one role (or mostly one role).
I’ve seen that happen first hand. That person was the worst of the least capable of the leads. I’m not saying you’re bad. I don’t know you.
I would say you need to reflect deeply before presuming your manager is just wrong. Either you are just wrong, or your visibility is poor, and both of those are on you.
MaleficentCow8513@reddit
Tech lead means different things in different organization. In many, tech lead is equivalent to what is a staff engineer in my current org. The org has 3 teams consisting of 11ish people per team and about 4 staff engineers who don’t belong to any team but provide technical leadership for the whole org. Then each team has 2 squads of 5 people. So about 6 squads for the whole org. Each squad gets a team lead and a tech lead. There’s a bunch of good senior, 5ish yoe people filling those tech lead roles. I think you’re referring to what would be a staff engineer in my org
dinithepinini@reddit
Yeah tech lead is basically a staff engineer imo, supposed to influence cross team best practices but embedded in a single team, driving the hard solutions and ensuring shit doesn’t get totally fucked. 5 YOE for staff is pretty rare, but possible depending on how quick you pick things up.
It is so highly dependant on company, a company with a bunch of paper seniors is going to promote you to senior faster if you can pick things up quicker.
MaleficentCow8513@reddit
The step levels we have are senior, principal and senior principal. Staff engineer isn’t a step level for us. It’s a role and they’re all senior principals
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Maybe. When the new lead was chosen there were other managers who questioned the decision publicly. Also have colleagues telling me they prefer me.
Perhaps you’re right. But one thing my colleagues know about me is that shit just gets done when I’m around.
Either way, I’m sure I have lots to learn and I’m focused on my own growth.
dinithepinini@reddit
I think the type of person who would make a good tech lead would take this as a learn opportunity. Try to learn as much as you can from this new tech lead, even if you think they are slow at picking up your domain. There’s so much shit to learn in this field and trust me, you want to be at the right level. It is so much easier to get shit canned if your abilities are lower than your levelling. If you’re really as good as you think you are, you’ll probably make tech lead on another team within a year or two, especially if other managers are noticing your output.
jl2352@reddit
Them hiring a bad lead, doesn’t mean you should be the lead. You also need to try to make it work with that new lead.
If you try to honestly make it work, and they are bad, then you’re justified in raising feedback he is bad.
But if you aren’t trying to make it work, then you are the problem. I’m sorry but that needs saying.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
I’m not trying to take his place and have been helping ramping him up. He’s a cool guy. I don’t bad mouth him or anything.
ninetofivedev@reddit
Well, except for that.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
I don’t say anything at work. He is slow. He does not know our stack and therefore can’t actually lead effectively. Those things are true.
Might be a different story a year or two from now of course.
ninetofivedev@reddit
I doubt it will take that long.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Hopefully. I need him to take the responsibility or at least get me a raise. It’s a weird feeling being a sort of temp lead
ninetofivedev@reddit
Is lead your manager? Like is the lead responsible for promotions or is that someone else?
This is not a great spot to be in. A manager that is new to the company isn't going to have a ton of pull to get you promoted. It sucks. I've been there.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
No, we have a new engineering manager. New lead and new manager.
Yeah. I’m not too bitter about it. I feel perhaps I am not experienced enough. I wouldn’t know. I might know in another 5 years for sure.
But I don’t want to wait that long. Maybe it’s time to find a new job
jl2352@reddit
I would say when it comes to career progression; you either want to rise up quickly, or move regularly. Being at a place for five years, I’d honestly recommend moving. Especially if it’s small.
That said wherever you go, it’ll be at least a year after joining until you’re promoted to a lead. If at all.
In regards to not knowing if you are not experienced enough; if you have a healthy relationship with your manager then you should ask them for feedback on how to grow further. Honestly most managers don’t just give that out. You have to ask for it for it to happen.
xXxdethl0rdxXx@reddit
This situation does hamper your internal mobility, but could be huge for your career progression. You have almost no accountability, with two relatively clueless people assessing your priorities and performance.
If you truly believe you’re ready for the next step, leave. But this could be an opportunity for you to get some more experience in your own terms, by unofficially leading projects and driving initiatives. Remember, “lead” is a role and not a title, you can put it on your resume if it reflects reality.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Thanks. That’s kind of how I’ve been thinking about it. I read some other replies on here and kinda made me feel like a fool.
DeterminedQuokka@reddit
There are lot of reasons a colleague might prefer you that are unrelated to how qualified you are for the actual job.
That tells us you are good at the job they want done. Not necessarily the job description.
ok_annie@reddit
your manager thinks you aren't ready for the role, you think you are. one of you is probably wrong but without knowing you I can't say which.
xAmorphous@reddit
Nah manager realized if he promotes them two he can only afford 1 jr. Instead, he gets 3 seniors / staffs.
throwaway_0x90@reddit
The skill needs to work in the trenches with the code, and the skills to lead are not exactly the same.
Just because you're the dev holding everything together like glue doesn't mean you should get the promotion to lead.
In fact, I'd say that's an argument against promoting you to lead.
Odd_Soil_8998@reddit
So as someone who did get a tech lead promotion last year, here's my take:
1.) You (probably) don't actually want this. It's 20% more money for 200% more work. You spend the whole day unblocking your team and then still have the deliverables of a senior dev that you have to work on at night when nobody is online to ask you questions.
2.) Lead is a different skillset. I went from being a star developer to a barely competent lead. You have to make peace with not knowing the details of your domain anymore. You have to context switch constantly. Seniors (and sometimes juniors) think you're an idiot because you don't know as much about their domain as they do, because you didn't write it and have to piece everything together based on conversations and skimming PRs (you don't have time to actually review the code anymore). You try to keep some hold on the project technicals by taking a few tickets every sprint, but every day the code drifts further and further from your existing mental model of it. You don't have personal "wins" anymore. Your job is to unblock your team and make high level decisions (not designs, just decisions). Your wins now are seeing your team succeed.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
This makes sense. I’m kind of already doing 1… but with no 20% raise…
dinithepinini@reddit
When you say you spend the day unblocking your team, what are you doing to unblock them? Also in your 1:1’s with your manager did you mention how much you had to unblock your teammates? It kinda sounds like you and 1 other person were working together and maybe helped answer questions about your domain as they came up, that’s a bit different than being in charge of a massive project and people messaging you “x feature won’t work for us! What do we do?” And then spending time digging into documentation and giving them direction to implement it properly, handing out tasks based on skill set or learning opportunities, etc. very different things.
alexbft@reddit
You might be too expensive. Prepare to be laid off and be replaced with a new guy without any experience.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Company already did layoffs. No they didn’t backfill. Just more work for everyone who didn’t get fired.
theunixman@reddit
They're fucking with you because they think you'll put up with it.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Lowkey
ugh_my_@reddit
You probably are ugly, have a funny laugh, said something minor that made your manager forever secretly hate you, didn’t get on your knees enough times more than the other guy.
They made their decision, now make yours.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Lol
GoodishCoder@reddit
This is dramatic lol
ugh_my_@reddit
Right yea sorry, the PC answer is the OP was just not fit for the role.
GoodishCoder@reddit
It has nothing to do with being PC more just not letting bitterness cloud logical reasoning lol. OP has said they have 5 years of experience and their manager has given them feedback that they still act like an individual contributor.
The logical assumption here is their manager brought in someone more qualified to be a tech lead.
engineered_academic@reddit
Its easier to hire from outside rather than promote from within. You are doing the job they paid you to do. Not only would they have to pay you more, they would have to fill in your position.
There are also lots of reasons why you would be passed over for a promotion. Its sometimes easier to teach someone the stack rather than teach them essential skills and experience that come with leadership. My advice is to lean in and support the new guy instead of being bitter. Explicitly clear the air between you especially if you have been giving him a hard time. Reset your attitude and expectations. Your job is always first and foremost to make your manager look good.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
I haven’t gave the new lead a hard time at all. Most of my resentment goes to management but after reading through responses it seems to be a common opinion that I am just not experienced enough. Maybe Mr manager was right. Still doesn’t feel great.
metaphorm@reddit
i'm gonna keep posting this every time one of these threads comes up because it's just the truth of the industry.
the bitter pill: career advancement in tech is more likely to be diagonal than vertical. you are more likely to get the raise and promotion by interviewing for a job at that level at a different company and getting an offer than you are to get it at your current company.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Makes sense. Have thought about going somewhere else but this is genuinely a good position.
wyldstallionesquire@reddit
Could be as simple as truly lacking experience. Ask for more detail on what you specifically need to do to meet their expectations. Ask for a plan to get there.
Could also be as simple as they were considering you, but got a great candidate in the backfill pool and decided to make them lead for reasons.
But at the end of the day, without sounding sour, I’d just address at a one to one and make a path to develop yourself to that level.
Or your manager is an idiot or poor manager, in which case you hit the gym, delete Facebook, and open work on your leetcode
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Thanks. Have spoken to him but he got a new role. He’s no longer my manager
Askee123@reddit
Get a job somewhere else, they don’t value you as much as they should
Slodin@reddit
I don’t know you nor your manager so take it with a grain of salt.
When I put in suggestions who get hired and who becomes lead or management roles. I take personality, soft skills much more than technical. Some people are great workers, but terrible at leadership. We just had a similar situation where I asked the less technical person to become a lead because the other guy who is more technical is just too hot headed.
Maybe your manager doesn’t think either of you are up for that kind of job. Or he is an idiot or he has a different agenda.
There are also managers who are looking to staff leadership roles with their own people. Some would even go further and make your job impossibly difficult within policy, hoping to make you quit or lay you off to make space for their own bodies.
Idk I’m just guessing here
KandevDev@reddit
the "passed up for the role you have been doing" is more common than the alternative. companies see a vacancy and recruit externally because that is how procurement is wired. fighting it requires being explicit: "i want the lead role. if i am not it, i need to know why." vague hints get ignored, directness gets a real answer.
MaleficentCow8513@reddit
How new is the tech lead? Onboarding to new projects can be very difficult and time consuming no matter how experienced one is, unless ofc the project stack and architecture is very close what you’ve already worked on
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
He’s a backend engineer hired for a role where the product is heavily frontend based. He’ll likely need more ramp up time even with AI
But he’s doing fine
GoodishCoder@reddit
Maybe you weren't ready to be a lead. The new lead will have ramp up time just like anyone starting at a new company you definitely wouldn't like it if they came in and immediately started making decisions without taking the time to understand the environment.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Yeah. Nothing wrong with the new guy. Thanks
DeterminedQuokka@reddit
So from this context my best guess is that you weren’t actually doing the role he wanted.
The tech lead role is probably the poorest defined in the industry. But usually it’s not a do all the work role it’s a level other people up, manage and delegate role. Even when it’s an ic.
If that’s what he wanted it sounds like that’s not what you were doing.
I recommend asking your manager what they would need to see for you to get that role. Honestly if it’s an actually explicit role and not just a title someone gets with no pay it’s usually straight up a management role.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Makes sense. This might be part of it. I am still a high performing IC
obelix_dogmatix@reddit
You think you deserved it. Your manager didn’t. The truth is more often than not somewhere in the middle. Deal with it or switch jobs. Not much advice to be offered on this front.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
Yeah not a dealbreaker. It’s a chill (for the most part) position and well paid. It’s cool
Oakw00dy@reddit
You're too good at your job. If you had been promoted, as a lead, you would have been less hands on so your boss brought in someone to keep you and ypur buddy grinding in the trenches.
daze2turnt@reddit (OP)
I feel like this might be part of it. My manager had mentioned I still very much act like an IC
Still-Gold-6146@reddit
Reasons can be very simple. From your manager getting his friend a job in your team to your manager just disliking you and searching for some "yes-man"
GoodishCoder@reddit
What's funny is the assumption when people don't get promoted is always malice when in reality the reason is usually pretty understandable.
For all we know OP is performing at a mid level and they hired a person with tons of experience.
ninetofivedev@reddit
I'm actually just going to take what he said his manager said at face value. Sounds like OP doesn't have a ton of experience, so they grabbed someone else with more.
That is a fairly valid reason.
onefutui2e@reddit
The best thing to do would be to talk to your manager.
At a previous company where I was a tech lead, we had layoffs and a restructure. Two of my peers moved into manager roles. When I asked my director why he hadn't considered me, he basically said that he thought I wouldn't have wanted it because while I was doing well as a tech lead, I would constantly complain or air out frustrations about it.
I did do all that, but it was in the context of "there's too much work and not enough time", not "I hate this get me out of here". But my director didn't know that: he just saw someone who seemed to dislike the role he was put in.
Now, could he have asked me what I wanted beforehand? Sure. That would've been nice. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I think it was just a chaotic time and he had to figure out how to quickly reorg 80-100 people.
Javeess@reddit
Yes, this happens every single time. I like to call it career scope creep. Just go back to your original job description and start looking for a new job.
nsxwolf@reddit
Did you know that role was going to be filled ahead of time? Did you let anyone know you wanted it?