Removing the Modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 Hybrid
Posted by NattyB0h@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 160 comments
Posted by NattyB0h@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 160 comments
S54MZ3@reddit
Yes k, 4 3 suddenly occurred euu3 x d e x and d coming 93 k uh3si, f8 rd ur3, uuyiugksx 4 certainly so og
Madison2Play@reddit
Everyone should at least be aware of the major privacy issues with new cars.
From the article:
Hopefully this issue gets more coverage going forward, and there are more articles about how to defeat these gross invasions of privacy on more car models in the future.
Steve_at_Werk@reddit
Seemed almost unbelievable but then sure enough, there's this: https://www.lincoln.com/support/how-tos/lincoln-app/manage-my-lincoln-app-account/how-do-i-opt-out-or-in-to-lincoln-insure-data-sharing/
WTAF
footpole@reddit
Yeah GDPR is great.
Tzunamitom@reddit
My first thought at seeing this article as a European: the things Americans will do to avoid having to have proper privacy laws
stealthybutthole@reddit
this might come as a shock to you but we vote for people who claim they will do one thing, and then the second they get into office they do something entirely different.
HoboHillsCoffeeCo@reddit
And then we keep doing it anyway!
TicketAmbitious6200@reddit
Vote for us or people of a darker skin color might move into your neighborhood!
Elvis1404@reddit
Don't worry it's the exact same even in the EU, cameras tracking your face (for "safety" purposes, obviously) in the "Great EU" are mandatory inside cars since 2024
ArseneWainy@reddit
Got fooled once in 2016, didn’t learn your lesson (shame on them) got fooled again in 2024 shame on you. The rest of the world have had enough of the BS excuses mate
stealthybutthole@reddit
…the president has nothing to do with this lol.
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Fappy_as_a_Clam@reddit
Don't say "European," say what country your in.
Then we can see if your full of shit or not. Because iirc, there are plenty of places in Europe with very, very poor privacy.
Pixelplanet5@reddit
since the majority of the population of Europe is in the EU and GDPR is an EU law the answer is pretty obvious.
Fappy_as_a_Clam@reddit
No it's not.
Pixelplanet5@reddit
what is not specifically?
Fappy_as_a_Clam@reddit
What country they are in.
Pixelplanet5@reddit
that was never the question but its one of these or one that has previously been in the EU like the UK which has adopted most of the EU laws anyways.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Union#List
WCWRingMatSound@reddit
European Union > United States
t-mille@reddit
Why are they booing you? You're right.
Pixelplanet5@reddit
because reddit users are mostly American and they dont like this reality.
PositivelyAwful@reddit
The fact that you get a location services request immediately when landing on the page makes this so funny
Hrmerder@reddit
connected vehicle's SYNC® system give you the ability to temporarily opt-out of data sharing with your insurance company
Steve_at_Werk@reddit
How temporarily kind of them
angrylawyer@reddit
yea it's the main reason I never used the vw app...
I know it says opt-in, but I suspect it's very tricky to get you to 'opt-in' and I'd just rather not risk ever using it. It's crazy how much stuff they'll report on too...
Speed, acceleration, and braking of course. But they can also see if you pressed the horn, how much the steering wheel was turned, what speed your wipers were on, etc. Can't wait for a claim to be denied because they saw your windshield wipers were set to too low of a setting or something.
wip30ut@reddit
it does make sense since some insurance plans are based on mileage & driving patterns. Liberty Mutual actually markets this kind of pay as you drive pricing.
Steve_at_Werk@reddit
But you opt in, I didn't opt into anything
TheBolognaPony@reddit
Mazda makes you call to opt out, unless you live in like a dozen different states.
Madison2Play@reddit
That is crazy.
Kavani18@reddit
I will never own a car newer than 2010. Never. I’d rather run my car on sunflower oil when there’s no gas left than deal with this shit
durrtyurr@reddit
This seriously impacts me. I'm the COO of a chain of alcoholic beverage retail stores, which means that 90% of my miles driven are to liquor stores.
nsfdrag@reddit
You're the coo, have your vehicle insurance included as part of your compensation package.
fatboats@reddit
I think they already know who you are 👀
Attainted@reddit
Sure but it's not like the pricing algos are going to take his job title into consideration, it'll just look at the location data and price off of that.
Twistedshakratree@reddit
The Tesla driver camera was the deal breaker for me. I just could not live with knowing I was being watched and recorded every time I got behind the wheel of my car. Insane.
afnj@reddit
There are many reasons not to buy a Tesla, but these are the top reasons for me.
cubs223425@reddit
If that's the top of the list, you are going to have to write off a lot more brands who are monitoring drivers and putting cameras/sensors all over their cars.
banned_from_r_cars@reddit
Funny enough I'm a software engineer at an insurance company and Toyota's telematics data we buy actually ends up giving a discount the vast majority of the time.
jatkat@reddit
I have an antenna load terminator hooked up to the cellular antenna on my Volt. Works great!
dumahim@reddit
Does that do anything to stop storing the data until a time it needs that connection for some sort of update though?
dumahim@reddit
. a device used in RF (radio frequency) systems to absorb signal energy, preventing reflections and protecting equipment by simulating an antenna.
OK, done. Now again, is that stopping the car from collecting and storing the data?
shreddedsharpcheddar@reddit
because cars do not come with local-telemetry collection systems. all of YOUR data that a car collects is GPS and cellular based. when you isolate out the antenna that feeds that data to the car, there is no more data for the car to collect. as far as what's stored, that gets cleared out at a set amount of drive cycles, or else every car would need terabytes of storage.
Killbot_Wants_Hug@reddit
You really think your car doesn't collect telemetry data? What makes you think that. Especially since many modern cars will show you their telemetry data. You can see it in the vehicle codes. And it's also documented that they collect and send it back to the car companies.
I mean even if you discount the fact it's documented that they do it. You'd be a fool to think the car can collect the data and the car can send the data back to the manufacturer, and still believe that they wouldn't unless prevented by law.
shreddedsharpcheddar@reddit
i know that for a fact. you are misunderstanding what i mean by telemetry
Rodic87@reddit
I suspect (though I'm not /u/shreddedsharpcheddar ) that adding a load terminator means it'll never have connectivity again unless you disable it.
What sort of update does your car need? I suspect they drive just fine without an update, and without connection they'd never know they needed it.
lawtechie@reddit
It's likely preventing the car from uploading the data. It's still going to collect and store it.
Whatever module is handling this process might get funky when it runs out of disk to store logs.
jatkat@reddit
Volt doesn't receive OTA updates, though I will rehook the antenna up if I ever need to take it in for service. I cant imagine the internal storage has enough for 1 year+ stored data though
Killbot_Wants_Hug@reddit
I mean a gigabyte of storage is dirt cheap and just storing numbers doesn't take a lot of space.
mk7_luxion@reddit
depends on the specific car of course but it will keep a log of everything up until it runs out of storage and then has to cycle out the oldest files, but if you bring your car to the dealership for servicing or ever want to get the latest update on the infotainment system the car will then dump to the manufacturer everything it has stored. The only way to really stop it is to actually kill the ability for it to talk home entirely and that could and probably does disable safety features like emergency services call on crash detection and remote start for example.
jatkat@reddit
It does kill those. Thing is, GM charges for those services anyway, while collecting my data. So fuck em.
incubus512@reddit
Probably uses dnp3 protocol, which by design backfills all the uncommunicated data.
doctorcapslock@reddit
it's a dummy load, like a resistor but for an antenna
MinnesotanGirlLover@reddit
Ah, so it disables the antenna without throwing errors?
bungblaster69@reddit
yes. and you don't want to just disconnect the antenna. You risk burning up the transceiver and that might trip a code
shreddedsharpcheddar@reddit
google a load terminator first please
F0rbiddenD0nut@reddit
(Ahnold voice) Come with me if you want to protect your privacy.
misterpickles69@reddit
(Willy Wonka song) 🎶Come with me and you’ll see
A world of privacy violations!🎶
B00marangTrotter@reddit
(Peter Griffin voice)
Hahahaha
Shut up meg.
theanswar@reddit
which one? how did you hook it up?
jatkat@reddit
Theres a guide online, it cost about 10? Or so dollars.
theanswar@reddit
I’ve googled my car and can’t find it. Maybe some day.
safetaco@reddit
I wish to subscribe to your magazine.
JJJBLKRose@reddit
Is that just basically a little piece with BNC connectors that you add in-line to the cable from the antenna to the car?
Steve_at_Werk@reddit
Talk nerdy to me
nondescriptzombie@reddit
I looked up his part numbers. List for the Modem is $1000. List for his Radio? $8000.
Fuck all of these companies with a razor.
AwesomeBantha@reddit
This part was crazy to me:
I had no idea that this was even possible. I wonder if there’s a way to block the IPs or use a DNS/VPN on the phone to prevent it from happening once the car request to transmit reaches the phone.
hifidood@reddit
Yeah I kinda call BS on this. At least when I pair my phone to my car, I tell it audio only and I don't have it share my contacts etc on there at all.
Craig2G@reddit
Idk, I had a car stolen from me and they found out where it was because the thieves disconnected onstar but then connected through bluetooth and Stellantis was then able to locate the vehicle again.
AwesomeBantha@reddit
When you connect a car through Bluetooth for audio + phone calls, doesn’t the call go through the car’s antennas? Maybe the cell tower pinged the car’s antenna that identified it with the specific vehicle.
This would be something I don’t really care about, the cell tower is gonna identify where I am no matter what I do and I don’t care if that connection comes through the car or my phone.
My bigger concern would be the car sending telematics or more data through my phone to their cloud servers.
testthrowawayzz@reddit
That would require either the hotspot function enabled on the phone, or having the Toyota app installed and allowed access to Bluetooth
AwesomeBantha@reddit
That’s what I thought too, but I wonder if there’s something with CarPlay’s tethering that could be used for something similar.
I don’t really understand why the OP insists on using wired CarPlay (theoretically, couldn’t they get like a $35 aftermarket dongle that does the same thing while the vehicle thinks it’s in wired mode) but I’m not an expert on this at all.
PRSArchon@reddit
Your solution makes a lot more sense yes. Any wireless dongle just looks like a wired connection from the car's point of view.
HatManToTheRescue@reddit
That is absolutely not how Bluetooth works, nor iOS and Android.
funnyfarm299@reddit
Educate yourself before making assertions.
HatManToTheRescue@reddit
I’m a software engineer that has worked with Bluetooth extensively on iOS and Android, and I work at a company making industrial internet routers. I’m plenty educated and understand how Bluetooth fundamentally works and that it cannot just use the phone for an internet connection by simply pairing. On iOS and Android the system Bluetooth does not directly interface with any internet connected interfaces unless explicitly allowed via tethering. Connecting a Bluetooth speaker via pairing (the same way your car requests pairing) does not suddenly grant internet access.
funnyfarm299@reddit
Then how is my bluetooth-only watch getting data from the internet?
w0lrah@reddit
Your watch uses different Bluetooth profiles that are set up by the watch app when you connect it to pass traffic with its companion app running on your phone. Those profiles are not used when you connect a device like a car, a speaker, a headset, etc. through the normal system pairing interface. Your car stereo can not get online through your phone in a secret way.
One thing it could do though, is use your phone as a dialup modem, placing a phone call. Ford's "MyFordTouch" system did this in the late 2010s for service tracking, I can say from experience. There's nothing technically preventing anything that can make calls from doing that, but it is plainly visible as a phone call when it happens and you lose your music because as far as your phone's concerned you're on a call.
HatManToTheRescue@reddit
It depends on the watch, cellular capabilities, wifi capabilities, and whether or not it’s connected to your phone specifically as a wearable in which case it probably does enable a form of tethering or notification forwarding at the very least. Without details I can’t say one way or the other.
funnyfarm299@reddit
But you can on Toyotas implementation despite having never worked on them?
HatManToTheRescue@reddit
Yes because cars and wearables use combinations of system and Bluetooth specific APIs to pair as their designated device types. Hence why a simple speaker doesnt get tether access.
funnyfarm299@reddit
This entire conversation has been about cars. I have never claimed a Bluetooth speaker is attempting to (or gaining) internet connectivity via Bluetooth.
HatManToTheRescue@reddit
The speaker was just an example. You also brought a watch into the conversation when trying to make a counterpoint. I’m just letting you know Bluetooth pairing does not give a device internet access in itself.
funnyfarm299@reddit
You can say that all you want, but I'm going to choose to believe the original article, the protocol documents, and decades of experience with Bluetooth devices behaving otherwise over one person going "no it doesn't".
HatManToTheRescue@reddit
Again, it depends on the context and devices in question. A phone and a car do not negotiate tethering. They use standard BLE connections. Even third party apps cannot access PAN features. The only PAN access happens via system hotspot APIs. If you believe the article with no supporting evidence (even the linked reference in the article is a baseless claim with no tangible evidence) then there’s no reason to not believe me. Keep on keeping on though.
funnyfarm299@reddit
Live flight tracking and maps using the flightradar24 app.
AwesomeBantha@reddit
Connecting a simple speaker is one thing, but I wonder if there’s elevated access when you connect to wireless CarPlay (which IIRC uses both Bluetooth and WiFi) on certain receivers which could be used for something similar to what the author alleges Toyota’s wireless CarPlay does.
HatManToTheRescue@reddit
I dont know for certain but I believe this kind of system network access would still fall under the hotspot APIs. Really all wireless carplay does differently to connect is pass a hidden SSID and password to the car’s infotainment so it can connect to the phone’s local wifi network used to transfer data back and forth (video, map data, etc.). This is not the same as passing data outbound from the cell network though. But again, I don’t know for certain.
HatManToTheRescue@reddit
I’m a software engineer that has worked with Bluetooth extensively on iOS and Android, and I work at a company making industrial internet routers. I’m plenty educated and understand how Bluetooth fundamentally works and that it cannot just use the phone for an internet connection by simply pairing. On iOS and Android the system Bluetooth does not directly interface with any internet connected interfaces unless explicitly allowed via tethering. Connecting a Bluetooth speaker via pairing (the same way your car requests pairing) does not suddenly grant internet access.
Edit: Comment I was replying to was edited to be less aggressive. Originally said “Educate yourself before making assertions”
RicardoMoyer@reddit
doubtful that this is the case unless toyota is using some sort of mosad/cia level day 0 exploit, phones don’t just give you free access to the internet via bluetooth
funnyfarm299@reddit
They do if the device implements the PAN profile.
RicardoMoyer@reddit
this is true, however AFAICT iphones clearly show the device being tethered and require “personal hotspot” to be enabled
i might be wrong but i don’t think iphones allow sneaky background connections to the internet
HatManToTheRescue@reddit
This is the same false claim you made in reply to my comment and simply referencing PANs does not prove your point
funnyfarm299@reddit
Simply going "no it doesn't" and not providing zero references doesn't prove yours.
UnusualLeadership408@reddit
Remember when cars didn't have internet connections? Those were the days
HerefortheTuna@reddit
Late 90s, early 2000s cars are peak
pvdp90@reddit
Up to mid 2010s for a bunch of cars. I think 2015 is a decent cutoff date in general, tho specific models may vary.
shloppin@reddit
CarPlay, heated seats and cruise control with a nice manual transmission. All ya really need.
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BlueWorldBlueSky@reddit
I don't know why people here and on HN go on grounding the antenna and then installing a bypass kit, techstream allows you to uncode the module and remove it from any toyota* for now.
But yeah not a new issue, cars don't need to be connected, this could be very well one of the last few years of a truly disconnected mechanical car.
bwoah_gimmethedrink@reddit
There should be a larger uproar against people's privacy being violated. You are not being informed that certain data will be recorded AND SHARED with third parties. Plus many companies make it difficult to opt out of that shit.
My current car is still from before the times of always being connected, but when I'll be getting a new one I'll definitely pick something where a shop can disable the wireless connection for me. I only need my phone for gps and staying online, thanks.
FourEyesAndThighs@reddit
We need this procedure for more cars. My Audi called 911 emergency services even though I hadn't been in an accident, I was going down a very bumpy dirt road.
DonutIndividual@reddit
Corolla gr’s keep calling the cops on people that track them
jameson71@reddit
Imagine buying a car that snitches on you.
Pixelplanet5@reddit
since when is driving on a track illegal?
max_compressor@reddit
Seen videos of them auto dialing SOS because it was on a track on someone slammed the brakes for a turn. I should disable this in mine.
Hustletron@reddit
My Audi is from right before the 2G cutoff. I assume that means it can’t talk to anything or anyone. 🤞
FourEyesAndThighs@reddit
2017 A4 came with 3G and 4G LTE, so I assume you mean 3G cutoff?
withoutapaddle@reddit
Almost certainly, because my 2017 GTI is the same. 3G so I don't have to worry about any data ever leaving the car again.
MessyMix@reddit
To be fair, even in one of the most analog cars ever, I still had 911 called on me... by Siri.
I went over a bump, phone flew out of the little holder that it was in, went outside to check on the car, came back and Siri had called the cops thinking it was a high-G accident.
I guess I was thankful, but also a little miffed, that it had done that.
doubled112@reddit
Help, they've fallen and they can't get up
- Siri
23ioo@reddit
Or just drive an older RAV4 for convenience.
nsfdrag@reddit
I got an openpilot module for my car and find my car driving itself on my commute more convenient.
TrevorSP@reddit
Those older V6 rav4s were quick too! And pretty reliable
funnyfarm299@reddit
Not as quick as the RAV4 PHEV.
TrevorSP@reddit
It also came out 20 years ago
B00marangTrotter@reddit
The enshitification will only get worse.
Generationhodl@reddit
so back to cars before 2020. got it.
BlackDS@reddit
Honestly 2015 is my cutoff date
withoutapaddle@reddit
Lots of 2017 cars were using 3G data, so they are all off the grid now that 3G is shut down.
Hustletron@reddit
And whatever new car isn’t a snoopy piece of shit will have market advantage in the future.
WhosUrBuddiee@reddit
Why remove it? Much easier to just find the DCM fuse that power it and pull that. Wayyyy too much work to take apart the whole dash and physically remove the DCM. Pulling the fuse takes 10 seconds and yields the same results.
SquirtBox@reddit
I looked into this before, and pulling the fuse disables a lot of stuff. For instance, pulling "just the fuse" disables the microphone and right tweeter.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/disabling-dcm-telematics-transceiver-%E2%80%9Csafety-connect%E2%80%9D-connected-services-module.794817/
WhosUrBuddiee@reddit
I mean the thread you linked shows how to very easily recover the use of microphone and tweeter with a couple jumpers. Still far easier to pull the fuse and add a couple jumpers than disassembling your dash.
BraveFencerMusashi@reddit
The fuse could apply to something else you don't want to power off, no?
WhosUrBuddiee@reddit
Pretty sure the DCM fuse goes to the DCM.
Drprocrastinate@reddit
And if you find out that's the case.... put the fuse back?
europeanperson@reddit
Yeah except now there’s like 4 lights on the dash and you need a dealer level scan tool to clear or recalibrate something. The joys of modern cars…
crunchynibbas@reddit
Do you understand what is trying to be accomplished here?
costafilh0@reddit
Watch manufacturers denying insurance claims because of these mods.
russman286@reddit
Anyone know how to disable the Nissan rogue module?
CorrectCombination11@reddit
Probably applicable to all modern toyotas! Good find!
Fappy_as_a_Clam@reddit
In my 2023 I had to download their useless app then opt out of data collection, then delete the app.
I guess thereotically they could still get it if they bypass their agreement, but no giant corporation would ever do anything unethical like that so I'm good.
funnyfarm299@reddit
Unlikely. The 2026 RAV4 runs on an entirely new platform.
CorrectCombination11@reddit
Gonna doubt there is overlap between new gen vehicle buyers and people looking to get away from corporate tracking.
europeanperson@reddit
What’s the correlation? Not everyone wants to deal with fixing problems with a used car.
CorrectCombination11@reddit
There are still 2025s on the lot
europeanperson@reddit
My brother in cars, this whole thread is about the issue occurring on a 2024 RAV4. Those 2025 have the same issue…
RunnerLuke357@reddit
Fine then, most modern Toyotas.
gimpwiz@reddit
Ah, I should really figure out how to do this for our explorer and civic.
Balwin@reddit
I changed the radio in my 2019 RAV4 because that specific model year didn't come with Android Auto. I ended up using a radio from a 2022 Corolla Cross. All the connectors fit except for the satellite radio, which I dont really use. I think that killed the data collection because the SOS no longer works, but annoyingly I can't set the time now.
asodfhgiqowgrq2piwhy@reddit
In my '19 Corolla Hatchback, all I had to do was swap the OEM head unit with an aftermarket one.
Least_Confidence_225@reddit
Cars have become rolling surveillance devices. Manufacturers shouldn't be selling your driving data to insurance companies without your explicit consent.
Kindly-Emergency-514@reddit
People don't understand why I like old shit, while new cars with their unintuitive, software-defined interiors, track your every move and sell it to data brokers/insurance companies. I don't think I'll own a car made after 2020 willingly (there are 2 cars that I will exempt from this), and if I do, the tracking device must be easy to remove.
jamesholden@reddit
Meanwhile I just add modern convenience features to my old cars. Started fixing up a 05 golf gti this week.
Eventually I'll get into ev swaps.
funnyfarm299@reddit
I'm probably in the minority in /r/cars that I really like connected services, but even I have limits. Always look up how to disable sharing insurance data.
Here's how you do it on a Toyota.
PalmSizedTriceratops@reddit
Luckily someone makes a DCM delete plug for my GR86 / BRZ. I hate these always phone home things.
nikonino@reddit
Damn that’s why if they break into your car the thieves can easily disable GPS tracking! Thank you for sharing!
victorinseattle@reddit
Worries about privacy, continues to carry a smartphone. LOL
HawtGarbage918@reddit
You can still walk around with your smartphone turned off. You can't drive around with your car turned off.
mds5118@reddit
Modern smartphones without removable batteries will keep your bluetooth running even when the device is powered "off".
Ok_Two_2604@reddit
I turned off phone connection, WiFi, and bt to save battery on a flight so I could watch downloaded stuff on my iPhone and it still tells me about AirTags. Idk when powered off.
azurite--@reddit
Yeah I don't know anyone who turns off their phone when they aren't using it or don't want to be tracked. No one does that shit
FSUfan35@reddit
Every carrier in the top 10 uses lexisnexis data. State Farm, Progressive, Geico, Allstate, USAA, Farmers, Liberty mutual, Travelers, AAA, American Family
dumahim@reddit
Which is a bit dumb because you don't know that the person with the cellphone is the one that's driving.
victorinseattle@reddit
To the insurance companies, it doesn’t matter. If you aren’t even driving, you’re in a vehicle that they think behavior exhibits higher probability of “paid loss”, you can still be potentially hit; because you’re technically exposed to medical loss risk
mungie3@reddit
I agree with your take to an extent. The difference is you can control a smartphone. Disable comms, power off, root, fake gps location, vpn, etc...
victorinseattle@reddit
I totally agree with you, but in this particular case, this person is using CarPlay. Almost every non-native weather app are considered major data broker sellers.
NattyB0h@reddit (OP)
Not the author, but found this very interesting