Loose part in cowling
Posted by SanguineThirst@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 38 comments
My flight school recently had an accident that destroyed the aircraft I was training in. Both the CFI and his student survived with severe burns over 70% of their body and are now doing well in recovery. After a bit of a hiatus, I went in for a flight with them in one of their other aircraft and while preflighting I noticed a piece of metal completely loose and free floating in the cowling. I went and looked up a picture and circled the piece that is free floating. Overheard my CFI on the phone with one of the maintenance people and they said that it’s been like that since they purchased the aircraft because it’s too expensive to fix. In my opinion, it’ll just lead to an even more expensive fix in the long run and potentially another accident and I can’t fathom why they wouldn’t get it fixed especially after an engine failure that let to the destruction of a previous aircraft and almost killed the two pilots. Any thoughts on this? Should I leave this school and pursue my pilots license somewhere else? This school has also gone through 3 separate sets of maintenance people this year alone, and my previous CFI along with a good chunk of the other CFIs there left to teach somewhere else or start their own school, if that means anything. Every employee there has been there for less than one year, the longest one being there since late October 2025.
stikshift@reddit
If a heat shield is too expensive to fix, who know what other maintenance they're skimping on.
Run.
Nearby-Percentage-37@reddit
£1300 for a new complete one at trade price here in the UK
BrtFrkwr@reddit
Psst. I can get it for you wholesale.
Mundane-Reality-7770@reddit
It's not a heat shield. It's a muff used for cabin heat. I had a pa28 and the shrouds on both ends were broke. Im a welder fabricator and repaired and fabricated new ends and riveted them on with ia approval. If you're in a warm climate you could completely remove this and fly fat dumb and happy.
stikshift@reddit
We're both wrong. It's the carb heat shroud. Pretty critical, I'd say.
BrtFrkwr@reddit
Yes, you need to change schools. The turnover is telling you something.
experimental1212@reddit
I believe them when they say it's expensive!
Still, run away as far as you can.
HLSparta@reddit
The fact it is expensive is probably how they justify charging OP $350 per flight hour based on their numbers in another comment. If they're charging that much that better be at least an airworthy airplane.
SanguineThirst@reddit (OP)
20k lump sum for 65 hours
HLSparta@reddit
Okay, that's not quite as bad, but it should still be plenty for an airworthy airplane.
SanguineThirst@reddit (OP)
Forreal, I paid for a specific an amount of hours essentially, but I’ve also found out that the $80/hr for the instructor I am getting charged for goes to the flight school. Paid $85/hr for a 3/hr ground session planning my cross country and found out the CFI only makes about $20/hr from that session.
SanguineThirst@reddit (OP)
Like brother I work at Whataburger and make more than that
HLSparta@reddit
Yeah, unfortunately that seems to be a common pay rate for instructors.
Final-Carpenter-1591@reddit
Flight schools should be audited yearly imo, especially focusing on the aircraft air worthiness. Your experience here is by far not unique.
I remember my wife getting harassed by the maintenance at a flight school because she refused to take a plane that wouldn't get an RPM drop when she pulled carb heat. ie, it wasn't working. They said. I roughly quote "it can't ice in 80 degree weather". She pulled up the Ntsb carb icing probability report and slapped it on their desk and went home. Never flew there again. (you can get carb ice up to 105f BTW)
I personally report shit like this I hear about. But rarely does anything happen. If the FAA isn't going to crack down. The only ammo you have is your dollar. Go somewhere else that takes airworthiness seriously.
SanguineThirst@reddit (OP)
As for the money, I prepaid 20k a few months ago and just hit 40 hrs, and I still have about 6k on my account there. Waiting on a medical deferral approval which is why I haven’t gotten my PPL yet otherwise I would be done already and on to IFR training. It seemed like a great school at first, but after experiencing the way they run things I’m having serious doubts about that school and idk how difficult it’ll be to try to get my money back.
HLSparta@reddit
The first thing I would do is check your contract if you have access to it and see if it has any clause about getting your money back or any other pertinent information. If they refuse to fix the problem or give you your money back, you might be able to sue them in small claims court if your state's limit is $6k or more. I've never been through the process myself, but supposedly small claims is fairly simple.
I also don't have enough experience or knowledge to know for sure, but I would imagine that you could win and get your money back considering they refuse to fix a part that can easily get you killed (assuming it is critical to the carb heat like another comment said) shortly after another of their aircraft crashed nearly killing the occupants.
I would recommend seeing if you can somehow get them admitting they know the part is broken and them refusing to fix it in an email or text. And then search through documentation for that model of airplane to find something that says what that piece of metal is (since the comments are split between something to do with carb heat or cabin heat and I've got no clue) and if it involves the carb heat you can explain to the judge how that can cause an engine to die.
I'm not sure how much help my comment will be, but I'm hoping it might at least help you get some pointers on which route to take or things to consider.
Again, I have very little true experience or knowledge with this so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
SanguineThirst@reddit (OP)
They just had an accident last month, so I would assume the FAA might take it a bit more seriously. Who would I report this to and how?
Final-Carpenter-1591@reddit
Don't quote me. But I believe the flight school should have been required to report the accident to the NTSB since they had serious injuries and substantial damage. NTSB covers accidents, FAA covers airworthiness. Since your post plane isn't an accident aircraft (yet). It'd be an FAA safety report.
You'd contact your local FSDO. I usually email them and ask to remain anonymous.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo
SanguineThirst@reddit (OP)
There is an investigation underway about that accident
TheVillianOfValley@reddit
Carb heat shrouds cannot be deferred because carb heat is required for airworthiness. Cabin heat shrouds cannot be deferred because defrost/defog capability is required for airworthiness. If the shroud cannot be made fast (secured), even just temporarily until the next scheduled maintenance, the aircraft must be grounded.
Purgent@reddit
When the story is so interesting the FAA wants you to tell it again second time
Ausgeflippt@reddit
Hey, that's just like the joke I was told to say to HR yesterday...
^(I really was let-go today.)
anonymoo5e77@reddit
That’s not an expensive issue. Either the school is struggling financially or the maintenance guy is lazy. Either way, I’d run. If they truly can’t afford to fix this, imagine the much larger, more expensive issues they can’t afford to fix. If it’s laziness, thats just plain dangerous in this industry.
Mundane-Reality-7770@reddit
It's the heat muff for cabin heat. It is not a heat shield. My old Cherokee had the inner baffle loose too. I'm a fabricator by trade and repaired it. It does nothing for safety of flight and can sort of understand deferring in a warm climate.
SanguineThirst@reddit (OP)
South Texas, so yeah it’s pretty warm out here
Mundane-Reality-7770@reddit
Rather than something rattling around I'd remove it since you're not using cabin heat. Tell them to find a local Tig welder and get it fixed for 200 bucks while it's off. The rattling could potentially damage the exhaust although not very likely.
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
I have that exact same plane and engine (PA-28 O-320) and I specifically grab that piece (heat shield) and wiggle it to ensure it is not loose.
That flight school sucks. I'm good pals with the mechanic that maintains all the flight school planes at our field, and he'd never let that fly.
Mundane-Reality-7770@reddit
Technically a heat muff and not a shield. A shield protects external components for heat. This takes heat off the exhaust and use the now warm air for cabin heat
SanguineThirst@reddit (OP)
How did this even get past its annual or 100-hr inspection?
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
Shockingly, some I/As pencil whip logbooks just like some AMEs pencil whip medicals, etc. Tons of reports of that sort of stuff.
Read up on how many times a plane comes out of maintenance with controls rigged up backwards (resulting in death), tools left in the engine bay, and other nightmares.
Mach_v_manchild@reddit
Likely Maintainers pencilwhipping inspections, or just not very good. That should be a sign to not fly there...
ParagPa@reddit
Run. Away.
SP_Aman@reddit
What the fuck
bgrant902@reddit
Never see those people again
forgottensudo@reddit
Time to go elsewhere.
ATrainDerailReturns@reddit
lol fuck that
natbornk@reddit
Uh, yeah, see ya!
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
My flight school recently had an accident that destroyed the aircraft I was training in. Both the CFI and his student survived with severe burns over 70% of their body and are now doing well in recovery. After a bit of a hiatus, I went in for a flight with them in one of their other aircraft and while preflighting I noticed a piece of metal completely loose and free floating in the cowling. I went and looked up a picture and circled the piece that is free floating. Overheard my CFI on the phone with one of the maintenance people and they said that it’s been like that since they purchased the aircraft because it’s too expensive to fix. In my opinion, it’ll just lead to an even more expensive fix in the long run and potentially another accident and I can’t fathom why they wouldn’t get it fixed especially after an engine failure that let to the destruction of a previous aircraft and almost killed the two pilots. Any thoughts on this? Should I leave this school and pursue my pilots license somewhere else? This school has also gone through 3 separate sets of maintenance people this year alone, and my previous CFI along with a good chunk of the other CFIs there left to teach somewhere else or start their own school, if that means anything. Every employee there has been there for less than one year, the longest one being there since late October 2025.
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