Singapore Airlines profit falls 57% as Air India losses and absence of Vistara merger gain weigh on earnings.
Posted by JKKIDD231@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 65 comments
YMMV25@reddit
SQ needs to bail on the AI investment. Vistara proved a decent airline in India was a possibility, but the merger with AI proved that airline will never be called Air India. They’ve made an effort, but in the same way EY dumped its investment in AZ, QR dumped IG, etc. it’s time to exit the AI project.
RedandWhiteFan@reddit
So spoketh the great YMMV25!!! SQ must listen. They must correct their odd ways.
lanternaddict@reddit
Please define an acronym if you are going to use one. After which go wild with them.
oskopnir@reddit
It's the aviation subreddit...
sofixa11@reddit
Cool, that doesn't mean everyone knows every airline's two letter IATA code.
sachipo@reddit
I was downvoted to oblivion when I said the same thing as you did for Airforce one.
ThatGuyFromCanadia@reddit
Air Force 1s, the shoes?
sachipo@reddit
that was my first question
RevoOps@reddit
You know they are airline codes. so just looking them up would have taken less time to write a passive aggressive comment..
Some1-Somewhere@reddit
Only one person has to write a snarky comment; multiple people have to look up the codes.
oskopnir@reddit
Believe it or not, straight to jail
lanternaddict@reddit
Therefore common courtsery goes out the window? You need to imagine, and write, like the reader doesn't have the full context
Excellent-Gur-8547@reddit
People are going to use convenient shorthand that most people who are involved in the topic at hand will know. It sucks for the casual observer, but that's the reality, they're not going to type everything out just so casual viewers of their conversation can keep up when the people they're directly talking to will almost certainly be able to understand it. I don't know any aviation forum anywhere that does t rely heavily on those codes. Hell, I've seen people get made fun of on airliners net (which is admittedly FAR more filled with industry people) for not using them.
Common courtesy is learning the abbreviations when people in a community rely on them, not to ask them to stop using them.
jellybeanjoy@reddit
Not OP, but:
SQ = Singapore Airlines AI = Air India EY = Etihad AZ = Alitalia QR = Qatar Airways IG = Air Italy
:)
binge_readre@reddit
bruh I thought EY here means Ernst & Young.
waldo-jeffers-68@reddit
Can you define these initialisms?
kantan432@reddit
Vistara was great, i hoped the merger was going to spread vistara over air India. Sadly it was the opposite, they turned vistara into shitty AIr India.
s0ulfire@reddit
Vistara was a shit airline financially as it always made a loss and only broke even in its last year
knakworst36@reddit
Wasn’t that in part because the Indian government only granted them limited slots for overseas flights.
s0ulfire@reddit
No, even when they had the windfall of Jet Airways slots, they still screwed up.
Most famous incident was flying the Jet Airways 737 aircraft without RVSM certification in error causing them to fly at FL280.
Vistara was the biggest shit show of Indian aviation bar the product but that also only because all aircraft were brand new.
They survived by the skin of their teeth and now the same folks are in AI.
kobrons@reddit
Vistara was not a decent airline though. At least not the times I flew with them. The two times I flew them before the AI merger the planes were in a pretty rough shape and the service was pretty mediocre.
Twitter_2006@reddit
Well said.
Bloated_Plaid@reddit
It was such an insane acquisition too. Air India has been a shitshow for decades wasn’t going to be fixed overnight.
Glass-Hyena-6743@reddit
All due to a faulty boeing 737 fuel switch killing 200 passengers. Air india needs to cancel all boeing orders and spend on converting indias massive ethanol output to jet fuel atf instead.
Aromatic_Classic3295@reddit
It was a 787-8 not 737 but yeah you are correct
Hot-Job-6281@reddit
Singaporean here. Let's just say that our investment boards are staffed with Indian NRIs. I still believe that it was a politically influenced decision and not purely economic.
pushbusss@reddit
singaporean as well. pretty new perspective. temasek holdings also has a large investment/owns a hospital chain in india (MAX Hospitals). gives me smth to think ab HAHAHAH
Life_Insurance_7614@reddit
i mean i wld assume the investments they make is based on what they assume to be profitable and not from which country it comes from right..?
v00123@reddit
You guys think too much about these things. Some deals make money, some don't. Take your example. Temasek owns around 50-60% of Manipal Hospitals(not Max). They invested at 4-4.5B USD valuation in 2023.
Manipal is doing an IPO at 11-12B USD valuation this year. So Temasek will make around 3X returns in 3 years.
Ok_Park_3617@reddit
Might as well have just flushed the money down the toilet.
ScrubbingTheDeck@reddit
What will an airline from a tiny dot that's not even visible on maps know how to turn around the airline of a global superpower
ScienceMechEng_Lover@reddit
Bruh stop embarassing us Indians by posting cringe shit like this.
Winter2712@reddit
he is from Singapore
ScienceMechEng_Lover@reddit
Oh. That comment is rich coming from him given they still go to Malaysia to fill up their cars despite all the money they have lol.
Hot-Job-6281@reddit
That's not accurate and a common myth - it doesn't make economic sense to do so, and the subsidised petrol is only available with payment from cards tied to Malaysian citizen-owned bank accounts.
Most of the upset towards such people from Malaysians are because they are one of the million Malaysian immigrants in Singapore who ride Singapore-license plates and pump the petrol there. But they fail to understand that the license plate isn't the nationality so they blame Singaporeans. Again Singaporeans don't have the bank accounts needed to even check out the subsidised gas - they have to pay the most premium tier 98 octane gas.
It's likely that he's a Malaysian living in Singapore hence the bitterness towards Singapore.
There are literally over a million of them in Singapore and the obvious inferiority complex from having a smaller GDP than an island they forced out, despite having many multiples in population.
BeatlesF1@reddit
That tiny dot has an economy of 600 billion dollars. Even as a massive country all India has is 4 trillion
DotGrand6330@reddit
Hahahhahah global power 😂
Fermooto@reddit
GLOBAL SUPERPOWER LOOOOOL
agha0013@reddit
You're being really dismissive of one of the most profitable and highest quality airlines in the world. And also ignorant of their long history of partnerships, investments, and subsidiary airline operations.
DietCherrySoda@reddit
Is this news?
SuperPair2473@reddit
Their profits fell 57%, thats astronomical. It is indeed news
DietCherrySoda@reddit
It isn't lol if their revenues fell 57% it would be but their profit dropping 57% means their margin went from 4% to 2%.
saw-sage@reddit
Singapore Airlines is in it for the money and the sixth freedom rights it could leverage. I don't consider Singapore / SQ being either an angel or a victim in this Air India situation. They meant business.
SQ lobbied the Singapore government to permit Vistara's merger with Air India. It made business sense to them. They counted their pennies when they could full well say no and walk out of the investment. But they walked in seeking 25.1 share in the entire Air India Group that covers Air India express as well.
Forget outsiders. Most insiders themselves don't know how TATA group works. They are another parallel government in itself. So much sarkar, that TATA group has its own TATA Administrative Services (Sounds familiar?)
Now these TAS employees are a privileged club/caste within the TATA Group - who have their 'style' of functioning. They keep pushing their TAS candidates into Air India for the perks. But once they infiltrate the company, they are a nuisance is one way to reckon a mild description. Their technical awareness is mild but they skip the general order of things, thinking they know the best. The TAS crowd always interfere with criticial business processes despite very limited technical leverage while they feel they are immune from accountability. (Sounds familiar?)
Protocols, processes, due care is a natural order of things in aviation. You take shortcuts today, you can expect the payback in say 6 months to eternity. What Air India is experiencing now is the outcome of shortcuts taken few years ago. You cannot let social media and digital marekting teams define your product. Aviation at its core is an engineering profession - not a marketing one. But inside Air India, the MBA shampoo sellers and South Delhi papa ki pari HR execs thought the idea that real engineering knowhow makes the real aviation product was a funny belief. Brand came first, product and engineering came second.
When Vistara was functional, there were strict boundaries between technical areas and managerial areas. The technical areas were a strong domain of Singapore Airlines - and their nominee CXO's had the final say on technical aspects. These TAS members were NOT entertained. What Vistara guaranteed was a viable product, but wrapped in understated premium cover.
Enter the TATA bid for Air India, the period between 2022 and 2024 - the company was a mess, rife with reckless hiring of people with no domain experience in key areas. 23 year old consultants were making slide decks to make presentations to key decision makers who themselves had no aviation experience. The actual engineers, technicians, safety professionals, with decades of experience were sidelined. Many of them were brutally and unceremoniously fired. This happened in Vistara too. Singapore Airlines never batted an eyelid when the entire mess was happening.
There is no point blaming anybody because Singapore Airlines was fully aware of what was going on. Never bothered to put their foot down. Because they full well know that this sunk cost still had the potential to yield their dividends.
Jealous_Papaya_1241@reddit
I am interested to learn more about your claims. Do you have any evidences to support your statements?
sachipo@reddit
Honestly, did not expect anything different from any company associated with that name/group.
max_frustrappen@reddit
Are you with the tata group or smth? Gng that's a LOT of info
JortSandwich@reddit
It’s clearly A.I. generated text.
mr_dee_wingz@reddit
They should step away from that financial blackhole. Nothing really is going to change, ever period.
furyandtempest@reddit
Revive air India takes years! Stocks prices sure heading south.
Sweaty_Woodpecker_74@reddit
When TATA bought AI , they bought piling debts along with it which costed millions after getting caught in controversies, accidents and geopolitical mishaps , it did not really help their image as they expected to earn profits.
This is hardcore engineering company in essence if core practice is not maintained structurally , then you will see start seeing cracks like these which mirrors the situation of boeing. Consultants assume marketing alone will sell products, this is the root cause. For that you need a good quality product and proper marketing together to sell a product.
Above problem is not peculiar to AI alone , pretty much all core engineering companies are going through this systematic erosion of quality because of ignoring engineers and their years of experience.
ScienceMechEng_Lover@reddit
I thought buying Air India was a smart move by Tata to secure key slots for Vistara at busy airports such as Heathrow and JFK. Then they merged Vistara into Air India and ruined it. I'm surprised Singapore didn't quit the moment it was decided Vistara would be merged into Air India.
jamessq999@reddit
Because of this, the bonus was 5.7 months instead of 7.5 months
zqwz@reddit
It was expected it would be in loss for several years before all legacy issues get resolved. Air India had placed orders to purchase 470 aircraft from Airbus and Boeing, which will; also take time for delivery. Its a long game to capture a high growth aviation market.
Big-Improvement7427@reddit
Singapore Airlines posts a profit, just less than last year, however still profitable.
koplowpieuwu@reddit
If Singapore isn't gonna divest from air india, they need to force a rebrand that uses their name and applies a foreign pilot oriented hiring policy
Transposableelement0@reddit
Air India was making losses long before the crash, crashes do dent profits but that's not the reason why they have been struggling for years
koplowpieuwu@reddit
I mean sure, I think the underlying causes of those could be resolved by tata and singapore's expertise in a more subdued way (operational efficiency, digitisation, etc). But if the crash report coming out finds safety culture issues then this thing will be a deep money sink for a decade no matter what.
fly_awayyy@reddit
The deep money sink is already there can’t you see it? And the crash report is not gonna be the one that triggers it. The biggest reason affecting them is the lack of Pakistan airspace access adding millions to their cost of operations and disruptions to long haul flights.
Transposableelement0@reddit
I struggle to see how an incident where the pilot turns off the engines in order to kill everyone and himself in an isolated incident is indicative of safety culture issue. Safety culture is more about how competent the training is, if corners are being cut, quality of safety protocols etc
Diesel__2005@reddit
To be fair in recent news it is evident that they have taken more interest in the business and are now active in BOD
ShawnThePhantom@reddit
SQ really needs to cut its losses and get out of AI. Let the Indian govt nationalize it again.
Rayuzan_Mojavec@reddit
Nah, just selling their stakes and letting Tata run the whole operation would be good enough
StarkAndRobotic@reddit
Im not surprised
JKKIDD231@reddit (OP)
Air India posted a full-year loss of US$2.79 billion (₹26,798 crore), inflicting a US$743 million hit on Singapore Airlines’ bottom line in the first full year since the carrier acquired a 25.1% stake in the Tata Group airline, dragging it into a sharp profit decline despite record operating profit.
Singapore Airlines (SIA), which holds a 25.1% stake in Air India, reported a 57.4% fall in full-year net profit to $930 million (SGD $1.18 billion) even as operating profit surged 39% to $1.89 billion (SGD 2.4 billion). Its annual statement also showed Air India’s hefty annual losses.
post-explainer@reddit
Please provide a source by replying to the message that was sent to you. Failure to respond to that message will result in the automatic removal of this post. Please feel free to reach out to the mod team through modmail if you have any questions or concerns.
r/Aviation is trialing new measures to prevent karma farming. Please feel free to provide feedback through modmail. Thank you for participating in the community!