Do people judge anyone more harshly than they judge other parents?
Posted by floppymitralvalve@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 73 comments
Just read a ‘what outdated views do you hold?’ type post here (now deleted, seemingly for duplication) where a highly-rated answer was seeing parents letting their kids have screens in places like restaurants.
It just got me thinking, as I can’t think of another cohort of people that attract the level of judgement, snobbery and nosiness as parents/kids/families do.
For clarity (as I posted on the original thread), I don’t let my own young son have access to screens, so this isn’t self-justification. I have however had experience of judgement if he has a meltdown in public (he’s a toddler - they do that sometimes, some more than others, and it’s a completely normal part of development). Essentially parents are damned if they try to distract their child with something others perceive as ‘bad’ (newsflash: not all toddlers will be distracted by direct interaction/toys/books/colouring for the duration of a meal out somewhere), or they accept that they’re going to attract evils from child-free adults in the vicinity when their kid gets bored, and probably leave early.
I don’t judge anyone for letting their kid watch something while they’re on a plane or in a restaurant, and those who do seem to assume the child must be glued to a screen at home too. You see just a snapshot of someone else’s life when you encounter them in a public place, so what drives this scathing assumption that this is how the child lives 24/7? Raising a child is hard and exhausting. Maybe let other people have a break sometimes instead of assuming the worst.
Dazz316@reddit
Racists can judge black people pretty harshly.
Ok_Young1709@reddit
Racists judge everyone but their own race harshly. Racists should just shove their head up their ass, save us the hassle of listening to them.
Dazz316@reddit
Not always, someone's they're happy with X and Y but not Z.
Either way, that was just 1 example of how people can be worse.
floppymitralvalve@reddit (OP)
Fair point. I only have n=1 to go by, but my husband isn’t white and definitely feels he gets more judgement/funny looks as a parent. That’s obviously not necessarily everyone’s experience though.
alyaaz@reddit
Yeah it sucks but also makes sense. As corny as it sounds, children are the future. Even if i don't have kids, ensuring that children grow up to be functional adults is something that affects all of us. That's not to say it's fair on the parents - just explaining the rationale for me
Direct_Instance_8655@reddit
I get your point. But have you ever felt that criticising someone has actually led to them changing for the better? Judgement usually just corners people, they dig in their heals, etc. I just don't think the constant judgement is really shifting things into a better place.
-aLonelyImpulse@reddit
I think it depends. Judgement is not the same as criticism. If you're being judged you feel shame/guilt and probably pull away or get defensive. But actual criticism can and does lead to change. It just tends to come better from someone who knows you and means well -- I don't think total strangers can be anything but judgy by that metric.
Probably taking your comment a bit too literally lol but I have been on both sidea of well-meaning criticism and it has lead to improvement.
Khaleesi1536@reddit
In the spirit of well-meaning criticism, the past version of ‘lead’ is ‘led’
-aLonelyImpulse@reddit
For real? I've always thought they were interchangeable 😭 No idea where I picked that up lol. Thank you! I have some editing to do...
Khaleesi1536@reddit
Haha, ‘lead’ pronounced as ‘led’ out loud refers to the chemical element, but the past tense verb is spelt ‘led’ 😊
-aLonelyImpulse@reddit
This is very embarrassing considering I am a writer/journalist lol. Oh well! It is freeing to show none of us are infallible.
Direct_Instance_8655@reddit
Yes fair point, I hear you! I guess in general it just does feel like a lot of people are out there constantly trying to prove they're right and others are wrong about all sorts of things. And I think it often just causes us all to dig in even more and be less open to change. But I get your perspective, absolutely. Depends on context I suppose.
-aLonelyImpulse@reddit
I feel like old man yells at cloud here but I do blame the internet for a chunk of our defensiveness. Seeing other people's thoughts and opinions constantly, and very often having them addressed directly at us, tends to result in a kind of prickliness that has everyone on edge. I do think we're supposed to keep most of this to ourselves/close friends, but it all gets publicly stated and the more people get used to it the more extreme it can get. Now I think a lot of people assume there's going to be a fight right off the bat.
floppymitralvalve@reddit (OP)
That’s an interesting perspective, hadn’t thought of people rationalising it like that to themselves.
I guess there are often a lot of assumptions made about what is needed/is a hindrance to raising a child as a functional adult though, too. There isn’t a single right way to do it, which is quite hard to appreciate until you’re the one doing it (everyone is a perfect parent until they have their own!).
Tradtrade@reddit
Yeah honestly just like …having kids is hard…certainly not always fair but that’s just life just like a judge you if you choose not to vaccinate your child there are loads of decisions a parent makes that impacts their own child and wider society
-aLonelyImpulse@reddit
I think people want to eat their cake but have it too. So many places that used to welcome kids are now no longer kid-friendly (hell, even McDonalds has got rid of all the colours and many play areas) and the cost of childcare/babysitting has gone up, so parents have to bring their kids to places that don't really consider them past a kids menu if they want to go out. Same if they want to stop in while out in town. The only entertainment available is usually a screen.
I also think a lot of people forget that it's not new. Sure, when I was a kid we had a lot more family restaurant set-ups and I'd be playing in the attached play area/soft play during the boring parts, but I also have a lot of memories of sitting at the table playing Pokémon on my various GameBoys. So it's been happening for probably as long as handheld technology.
My only criticism is when parents allow the child to blast music/games/shows from the tablet at full volume. Come on.
AbjectGovernment1247@reddit
I think McD's got rid of the kid friendly vibe because they realised aiming their junk food at kids was not a good look.
Although they still do it to a certain extent with happy meals and the toys.
-aLonelyImpulse@reddit
Obviously feeding kids junk all the time is bad, but McDonalds was always supposed to be a one-off treat. I don't see anything wrong with giving kids junk food every once in a while, as a treat or something. Many of us give ourselves the same luxury with takeaways.
As with everything, too much is a bad thing. But it's a shame that kids keep losing out on fun places to hang out.
AccordingCry9066@reddit
i think parenting attracts unusually harsh judgement because everyone was once a child, so people assume they automatically understand parenting from the outside. plus people only see isolated moments and turn them into character assessments. one tired parent hands over a phone on a difficult day and suddenly strangers act like theyve diagnosed the entire household dynamic from a ten minute snapshot.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
For sure I read a lot of responses to these things "well my parents never did this when I was young". Once you become a parent you realise that children don't know half of the things parents are doing all the time, and the people saying that just don't remember.
peppermint_aero@reddit
Yes, if you were under the age of four chances are you don't remember.
peppermint_aero@reddit
"i think parenting attracts unusually harsh judgement because everyone was once a child, so people assume they automatically understand parenting from the outside."
Also teaching. Almost everyone has been in the position of a student in a classroom at least once and so they have lots of opinions about how easy it looks.
Divgirl2@reddit
Fat people are probably judged more harshly than parents.
Felt like someone should actually answer your question.
peppermint_aero@reddit
I mean, can be both right.
Most criticism aimed at parents, single parents in particular, is usually a really lovely mix of classism and misogyny with the occasional sprinkling of fatphobia where relevant. Especially where it's people on a lower income.
floppymitralvalve@reddit (OP)
You might be right, hadn’t thought about that. I don’t think it’s helpful to demonise overweight people either - I see it as a public health problem (and sometimes an education one), and having a pop at the individual doesn’t actually have any positive effect.
AbjectGovernment1247@reddit
I'll preface this by saying I'm not a parent so make it what you will.
Children need to be taken to and spend time in public places and be taught how to behave appropriately in those places, because one day they will be adults occupying those spaces.
In terms of keeping children entertained, I think each family has to do what works for them.
However if your child is going to be watching something on an iPad, I would appreciate it if it's not so loud that I can hear it two tables over. I know children can wear headphones but I think the risk with that is that the child is then completely isolated from the family conversation and I don't think that's healthy.
If someone is reading this and thinking children should just be quiet and do as they're told, this is not the Victorian era. Self expression is healthy and should be encouraged in children, just at an appropriate volume, please.
The only thing that really annoys me, are parents who are clearly ignoring their children in public places.
sqkz69oioi@reddit
Screens are an absolute last resort for my child when out in public or at a restaurant, only had to do it a few times and that's when they were poorly. The issue here is the assumption that the child is constantly on screens which is based on zero evidence, you have absolutely no idea how frequently a child is using screens so respectfully f*** off and get out of my business 😂
peppermint_aero@reddit
By and large I'm very supportive of parents and I'm very aware that there is a certain edgelord mindset that can be very judgmental of any human being that has different needs, which young kids are.
I don't judge whether your kid is using colouring pencils or an iPad in Pizza Express, that's your judgment as a parent. But please, please give them headphones or make them play a silent game. The noise that comes off these devices is so disruptive and overstimulating.
pgnlzbth@reddit
I think there is a lot of judgement and it can certainly feel as if you’re under scrutiny, as a parent of small children. Sometimes though I think we are hyper sensitive to the attention and assume it’s negative when sometimes people are just looking and observing small children, maybe with memories of their own. I used to hold my head up high. If my daughters were having a tantrum or whatever have you, I would quietly remove them from the situation, and deal with it.
We went to a lot of pubs when they were small. We had a bag called a ‘pub bag’ which contained all sorts of games and colouring and things to entertain them, and they were as good as gold for the most part. As they got older, they had iPods (remember them?!) and DS and were allowed to play on them, within reason. Maybe I’m lucky as they were probably around 10 before iPhones etc were really a thing. But if I had small kids now, I think I’d still try to occupy them the ‘good old fashioned’ way. We ALL spend too much time on our phones - myself included! I think it’s sad to see couple out together, staring at their screens… same goes for kids / parents. It’s much nicer to see interaction. But ultimately, it’s no one else’s business, really.
As for other groups judged as harshly- I’d say yes! Many! As others have commented already. But we’d all do well to be a bit less judgy and much more compassionate all round, I think.
floppymitralvalve@reddit (OP)
You’re definitely right that we’re probably hyper alert to it; maybe that’s where the feeling comes from.
Far-Hospital-9961@reddit
Hear hear
Far-Hospital-9961@reddit
Thing is, there’s more and more research coming out in terms of how bad screens really are - particularly for under 5s (older kids I personally think the occasional cartoon on the iPad is fine to give parents a breather!)
So, yes, I do judge parents giving 1 year olds tablets. I have a family member who is now struggling with a very, very aggressive young boy who has had phones and iPads from 6-12 months of age.
He’s genuinely addicted and gets so angry when he’s told he can’t have a screen. It’s sad.
So, yeah, I judge. Downvote me, sue me.
floppymitralvalve@reddit (OP)
Meanwhile mine is prone to severe meltdowns multiple times a day having never had access to a screen, so I don’t think it’s possible to make a direct correlation or view this as definitive cause and effect. There’s certainly evidence that excessive screen use is harmful, but I’ve yet to see any that the odd half hour while you have a meal in peace is damaging in any way.
Far-Hospital-9961@reddit
Yes, but two things can be true at once.
Your child may have meltdowns whilst not ever having had screens. At the same time, giving under 5s screens is also proven to disrupt their development. That’s a fact.
To be clear, I never said I judge parents of children having meltdowns - I judge parents giving very young children (proven) addictive devices that disrupt the acquisition of social skills, motor skills, language, so on and so forth.
I think we will look back on it the way we do about parents giving children whiskey etc.
floppymitralvalve@reddit (OP)
Do you have evidence that occasional screen time (e.g. at a restaurant or on a long journey) is harmful for under 5s? Genuine question as I’ve not seen any. The closest thing I’m aware of is the WHO guidance on screens (zero sedentary screen time for under 1s, ideally no sedentary screen time aged 1–2 though their wording is ‘less is more’, and ‘no more than an hour per day aged 2-4).
BuncleCar@reddit
So what did people do before phones and tablets? I'm old but if I'd had a tantrum I'd have been taken outside not to disturb people
AllThatIHaveDone@reddit
My mum used to keep toys and colouring pencils and paper in her bag, same as I do now for my son.
GrandAsOwt@reddit
Which is great if you have the sort of child who’s into colouring. My grandson just isn’t. He needs stimulation or activity. And I don’t think that’s down to parenting, because his little sister is very much into being shown things, read to and talked to. It’s like she likes her world at level 4, and he needs level 9.
AllThatIHaveDone@reddit
Right. But the question wasn't "what do you do with your kids now", but "what did people do before phones and tablets".
Direct_Instance_8655@reddit
But the point of OPs post is not to discuss the pros and cons of screentime again...
floppymitralvalve@reddit (OP)
Yeah, wasn’t really looking to re-litigate screen time! Was just the example from that other post.
Though to answer that question - a book or a gameboy, and mine is too young to occupy himself with those at the moment anyway. I do take him home if he’s having a meltdown because it’s embarrassing and I don’t want to disturb other people, but parents deserve a break too, and if they want to distract their child with something effective for a short period of time, that’s not something for other people to judge imo.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
When I was young we rarely went out, it's much more common now. Plus that argument makes no sense, some things are easier because we have modern technology, we don't refuse to use it because people used to have to do without. People don't give them a tablet to diffuse an actual tantrum normally, but children can be disruptive without throwing a tantrum. And people will judge that too. You can't go outside every time the child gets up from their seat or talks loudly, both things that bring judgemental looks. Well you could but that would also be annoying. And yes, people will come to say they manage their child without a tablet, but not every child or parent is the same. 20 minutes on a tablet occasionally is not destroying a child's future.
IansGotNothingLeft@reddit
That's not the point of the post. In fact, you're proving the point of the post.
-aLonelyImpulse@reddit
I played my GameBoy.
Aggravating-Ant-6767@reddit
I don’t judge anyone for that, what I do judge is listening to it out loud in public- I don’t want to be sat on a train or out at dinner with kids tv blaring in the background.
NecroVelcro@reddit
I was subjected to a brat obba tablet blasting brain rot in a hospital waiting room a couple of weeks ago. As well as the noise, the child was creating a trip hazard by being sprawled across the floor. I was worried enough by the procedure I was about to undergo without that entirely avoidable added stress.
floppymitralvalve@reddit (OP)
Oh for sure on this - I can’t think of any excuse not to use headphones, whether it’s a child or an adult.
Dazzling_One_4335@reddit
That's my number one annoyance at the moment!
Sea-Still5427@reddit
Is that a genuine question looking for answers or more of a rant?
I think most people make allowances for children and parents compared with, say, people who are obese, disabled, different race/dress, obviously non-CIS/straight, etc. That's why they're also legally protected characteristics.
Accomplished-Fix3841@reddit
As someone who is both a parent and a member of two of those other categories, I feel the judgment as a parent the most acutely.
I also judge myself for the ideas about parenting that I held before I actually became a parent.
Sea-Still5427@reddit
I think that's true of many life stages. As an older woman, I wince at Karen comments - which are essentially about silencing older women who aren't being 'nice', the modern day version of 'witch' - but I was guilty of dismissing people due to age when I was younger.
floppymitralvalve@reddit (OP)
Bit of both - I do wonder why parents are judged more harshly than other demographics, and it does also bother me that it happens.
Ok_Young1709@reddit
I judge influencers harshly. They are causing problems in society and yet have the power to do good. Instead, we have men pretending they are macho men who say all men should take charge of women and essentially abuse them, female influencers trying to project a perfect lifestyle for a family and how perfect everything is (we all know you're lying), and other various influencers who are just constantly lying about shit, giving out false information, persuading people to do stupid things etc. They get paid to do this, to lie to people, pretend life is easy, to abuse people. It's disgusting and kids are growing up watching this shit and believing it. Mind you so do adults.
monistar97@reddit
I would only judge if someone was allowing their child to have it on full volume and disturbing other people.
On Sunday we went out for a roast and it was super busy so the weight was really long and my nearly 4-year-old son was getting a bit antsy so we let him watch some Duggee on iPlayer and that to me is absolutely fine. I was getting hangry waiting for food so I don’t expect him to be able to control his emotions in the same way.
redlorryyellowlorry9@reddit
I agree, sometimes you’ve exhausted everything else if the wait for food is very long. But I kinda judge if the tablet/phone comes out straight away as the default option.
We were in a pub recently and a couple arrived with two kids, who were immediately given a tablet each as soon as they sat at the table. Then their grandparents arrived, and they tried to say hello to the kids but they were already zoned into their tablets and didn’t even look up.
monistar97@reddit
He slept badly at my parents for his monthly sleepover, it was hot, the cars we had in the bag were not working.
Bringing it out immediately is a no go, I feel the exact same as you.
Glum-Fly-5437@reddit
i think parenting gets judged so harshly because children affect public spaces in visible ways. everyone notices noise, mess or disruption immediately, so strangers feel entitled to form opinions from tiny snapshots. the problem is people confuse witnessing one difficult moment with understanding an entire family dynamic. those are completely different things.
infieldcookie@reddit
I would say yes, they do. Just look at any comment section and you’ll have people ranting about fat people, disabled people, trans people etc.
Yeah people judge parents but it’s mostly for stuff that they can actually control (ie I judge parents who let their kids blast episodes of peppa pig on full volume in a restaurant when they could be using headphones)
Loud_War9542@reddit
I think the issue is, people think kids on screens are just watching some rubbish when the truth is, in the majority of situations …. The child is actually doing something educational on a screen - whether it be a jigsaw, a puzzle, phonics etc…. We have noticed that our daughter has come on in leaps with her reading and a screen is just another tool that has helped her.
Also, busy public places can be overwhelming for autistic kids. A screen that keeps their focus can help calm them.
It’s not anyone’s place to judge how another parent parents child.
The only time I feel myself judging other parents is when I hear the parenting swearing around the child, smoking around the child, drunk around a child, or being physically / verbally abusive. The rest is just noise and not anyone’s business.
Fancy-Professor-7113@reddit
People who don't have kids are great at this.
I used to be a bit judgy about some stuff I saw with kids/parents. Then I had kids and you just do your best, and most of the time you see that's what other people are doing - including the kids themselves.
Mine are teenagers now and I think, in general they get such a bad rap. But they're navigating stuff I never even had to think about.
floppymitralvalve@reddit (OP)
Same here - as I’ve said in another comment, everyone is a perfect parent until they become one themselves!
Squeak_Stormborn@reddit
Not to justify the judgements but it's the most important job in the world. Do it wrong and we have a future full of assholes. Do it right and the world becomes a better place.
floppymitralvalve@reddit (OP)
To this I’d ask what makes someone think they’re the arbiter of what constitutes raising a child rightly or wrongly though? There are some things I think the vast majority of people would reasonably think are bad things to do as a parent (e.g. smoking around children), but the judgement often seems to extend to relatively innocuous things, and often without evidence behind the viewpoint.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
Nobody can do it perfectly all day every day, an otherwise well cared for child isn't ruined because they occasionally watch a screen in a restaurant or eat a nugget. Life isn't easy and the overall is what matters. And what is "doing it right"? Not everyone agrees on what is the best way, not even the experts. Unless you're closely involved and they're asking for your help it's not your business.
RetroRegretso@reddit
Arseholes, surely?
Direct_Instance_8655@reddit
To answer your title question: themselves.
Personally, I think a lot of parents ultimately judge themselves really harshly. Might be a generational thing but millenials especially seem determined not to make the same mistakesas their parents did. Add in endless social media advice on how not to mess up your children, and we're just all out there, constantly on edge. I think it 'comes out' as judging other parents because we're deeply insecure about our own parenting and constantly try to find reassurance that we're doing things right. Frankly how wouldn't we with all the judgement right, left and centre.
HTwoHo@reddit
People judge people for all sorts of things. Pet owners get dirty looks and snide comments when they're pets just exist in public, disabled people often go through similar situations for just existing themselves, immigrants who haven't perfected their 2nd language are looked down on regularly.
Day to day I don't think people do judge parents more harshly than anyone, I think parents are just more likely to moan about it
Dazzling_One_4335@reddit
Fuck 'em. I very occasionally let my kids watch a cartoon or two on a pad in a restaurant because I deserve a breather and some food in peace once in a blue moon! 9 times out of 10 they sit nicely, eat their food and colour in or join in the conversation, but once in a while it's not going to be that way and I have no guilt about letting them enjoy an episode of Number blocks. It works out for them, me and everyone else in the restaurant.
SemtaCert@reddit
It's fine as long as they wear headphones and don't listen to it out loud.
Dazzling_One_4335@reddit
100%
Dazzling_One_4335@reddit
Headphones included!
Dazzling_One_4335@reddit
P.s. not loud enough to bother anyone close by though.
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