EV overhaul drags Honda to first operating loss since 1957
Posted by plun9@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 36 comments
Posted by plun9@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 36 comments
DocPhilMcGraw@reddit
I find it interesting that all these brands like Honda lost money on their EV investment and are pulling back, while Toyota seems to finally be diving in deep with their new Highlander EV and bZ offerings.
Redeemed_Expert9694@reddit
Plain and simple, for the NA market, Toyota was the smartest
They correctly predicted EV infrastructure wouldn't develop quickly and that consumers would hesitate to swing towards EVs but would likely accept hybrids
Hyundai wasn't as smart as Toyota, but I'll give them props for being proactive, as at least they spent the last 5-7 expanding their hybrid offerings while still making competitive EVs. Aside from Toyota, they have by far benefited the most from the hybrid popularity boom.
Przedrzag@reddit
Toyota seems to be the only company that waited for the 2024 election before making big BEV investments, maybe Nissan too
Hyundai seems to be betting on being competitive in Europe and China since AFAIK the US doesn’t make up as much of their sales volume as it is for the Japanese companies
costafilh0@reddit
Toyota also looses money on every EV, just like everyone else.
They are just late to the party, so their losses are also coming later.
Probably lower because they are making much more hybrids and ICE than EVs to offset the losses.
Teutonic-Tonic@reddit
And due to the heavy hybridization of their lineup they have invested and developed a strong supply chain to support electrification which should help keep EV costs down.
Crazyirishwrencher@reddit
At a corporate level, Honda blurs the line between "risk averse" and "terrified to participate".
Antique_Western_@reddit
They even had the first hybrid in North America (Insight 1999) yet somehow fell way behind in electrified vehicles.
Przedrzag@reddit
Tbf that’s basically the Japanese car industry in general
Mean-Paper6913@reddit
They only had the first hybrid in the North American market because they rushed the Insight's rollout STRICTLY to beat the Prius to market by a matter of weeks. Ultimately a totally fruitless move because the Prius was, and continues to be, a totally superior product for 99% of consumers.
ChicSheikh@reddit
Yeah, the Prius was way more successful than the Insight, but the point stands that Honda has more than a quarter century of experience in electrifying cars. The OG Insight, the subsequent Prius ripoff Insight, several generations of Civic and Accord Hybrids, CR-Z, Clarity, the Fit EV, the Honda e, etc.
I figured with all of these relatively niche (and likely unprofitable) projects Honda was loading up on expertise so they'd be able to drop a serious BEV on the world whenever battery prices came down enough for that to make sense. Seemingly, they have engineers that know all about battery management, charging, electric drivetrains, etc.
So it definitely came as a surprise to me that Honda couldn't pull off a fully-baked BEV on their own and had to buy Prologues from GM. And then that they'd somehow try to reinvent the wheel to such an extent on the 0 Series that they spent billions with nothing to show for it. Two to three decades ago I was such a Honda fanboy and now I just don't really get what they're about.
Due-Combination7924@reddit
everybody else is losing thier ass onproducing (and canceling) EVs exccept tesla. They are making the smart move.
Teutonic-Tonic@reddit
Interesting side note. Honda completely shut down their gas lawn mower business and now makes 100% electric mowers which is wild given how their car division is taking the opposite approach.
TheDistantEnd@reddit
Honda execs toured EV factories in China, and the reality of how out of their depth they truly were became evident. Probably also why they're retreating hsrd to the American market, where EVs are stalling out a little.
cat_prophecy@reddit
But like...how?
The only EV they sell in the North American market is the Prologue which was a joint development with GM.
Worldwide they only sell 6 EV models (if you count the ZDX as its own) and four of them are joint ventures with other companies.
Oh_ffs_seriously@reddit
They have developed their own platform (meant for the USDM) and decided to cancel it weeks before release. A lot of R&D spending with no way to recoup it == a loss.
cat_prophecy@reddit
Was that the stupid project with Sony? Afeela? Or is that still on for deliveries?
Oo__II__oO@reddit
Their development strategy for their low-volume, high priced flagship NSX didn't work for mass-produced EV development? Who could have seen this coming?!
boilershilly@reddit
They axed their new ones that were supposed to come out soon. The loss is them writing off the R&D for those cancelled models. It's not them losing money on the evs they do sell, though they probably are
costafilh0@reddit
Taking a loss on every EV made just like everyone else?
Who would have thought?
adamfps@reddit
Top 1% and downplaying EV market, many such cases
Teutonic-Tonic@reddit
*Except Tesla.
Recoil42@reddit
ITT: People who don't understand how a write-down works.
K_R_A_K_E_N_540@reddit
EV overhaul ? More like ignoring the EV market.
InsomniacAlways@reddit
Toyotas been ignoring the EV market and it’s working out great for them lol
derprunner@reddit
Toyota has been selling hybrids so good, people cross shop them with genuine EVs, for at least a decade now.
The same cannot be said for Honda.
InsomniacAlways@reddit
You’re not wrong, my point is Honda has a bigger problem than simply ignoring the ev market
adamfps@reddit
But he never said it was the biggest problem, he was connecting to the article which highlights an issue, not the issue
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Toyota is big enough to do their car business, but Honda and other Japanese automakers can’t. The size between Toyota and all other Japanese automakers, Toyota is much bigger than them.
ConfusedTapeworm@reddit
Toyota's hybrid tech sits perfectly in the gap between EVs and ICEs. Almost as reliable and efficient as EVs, but without the pains of switching from ICE to full-on electric, like the range anxiety or the unfortunately quite real inconvenience of charging in certain regions. Perfect "transitional" drivetrain, and as you've noted, its financial success speaks for itself.
Accro15@reddit
Eh, Toyota has been slow-rolling it, but not ignoring it. Aside from the GR cars, all of their models have at least a hybrid option, half a dozen PHEV options and two EVs. Honda just has Civic, Prelude, Accord and CR-V hybrids, none of which are PHEV and then the prologue EV.
McLargepants@reddit
If Honda truly did ignore EVs then it wouldn’t have taken the multi billion dollar loss in R&D and retooling that caused this.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
So, are we seeing Honda going to merger Nissan again ? I don’t think Honda not understanding how important in EV market, they need someone who can make EV for them. Nissan is exactly their good candidate.
wiscotangofoxtreat@reddit
Its always fun y seeing the same article posted on various subs and how different the com.ent sections are.
Pad_TyTy@reddit
Oh and about $8B in tariff costs... But was that in the headline?
myturn19@reddit
Who could have saw this coming
Redeemed_Expert9694@reddit
Honda texting GM now:
Heyyyy
Missed you 😘