EV overhaul drags Honda to first operating loss since 1957

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DocPhilMcGraw@reddit

I find it interesting that all these brands like Honda lost money on their EV investment and are pulling back, while Toyota seems to finally be diving in deep with their new Highlander EV and bZ offerings.

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Redeemed_Expert9694@reddit

Plain and simple, for the NA market, Toyota was the smartest

They correctly predicted EV infrastructure wouldn't develop quickly and that consumers would hesitate to swing towards EVs but would likely accept hybrids

Hyundai wasn't as smart as Toyota, but I'll give them props for being proactive, as at least they spent the last 5-7 expanding their hybrid offerings while still making competitive EVs. Aside from Toyota, they have by far benefited the most from the hybrid popularity boom.

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Przedrzag@reddit

Toyota seems to be the only company that waited for the 2024 election before making big BEV investments, maybe Nissan too

Hyundai seems to be betting on being competitive in Europe and China since AFAIK the US doesn’t make up as much of their sales volume as it is for the Japanese companies

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costafilh0@reddit

Toyota also looses money on every EV, just like everyone else.

They are just late to the party, so their losses are also coming later.

Probably lower because they are making much more hybrids and ICE than EVs to offset the losses.

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Teutonic-Tonic@reddit

And due to the heavy hybridization of their lineup they have invested and developed a strong supply chain to support electrification which should help keep EV costs down.

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Crazyirishwrencher@reddit

At a corporate level, Honda blurs the line between "risk averse" and "terrified to participate".

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Antique_Western_@reddit

They even had the first hybrid in North America (Insight 1999) yet somehow fell way behind in electrified vehicles.

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Przedrzag@reddit

Tbf that’s basically the Japanese car industry in general

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Mean-Paper6913@reddit

They only had the first hybrid in the North American market because they rushed the Insight's rollout STRICTLY to beat the Prius to market by a matter of weeks. Ultimately a totally fruitless move because the Prius was, and continues to be, a totally superior product for 99% of consumers.

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ChicSheikh@reddit

Yeah, the Prius was way more successful than the Insight, but the point stands that Honda has more than a quarter century of experience in electrifying cars. The OG Insight, the subsequent Prius ripoff Insight, several generations of Civic and Accord Hybrids, CR-Z, Clarity, the Fit EV, the Honda e, etc.

I figured with all of these relatively niche (and likely unprofitable) projects Honda was loading up on expertise so they'd be able to drop a serious BEV on the world whenever battery prices came down enough for that to make sense. Seemingly, they have engineers that know all about battery management, charging, electric drivetrains, etc.

So it definitely came as a surprise to me that Honda couldn't pull off a fully-baked BEV on their own and had to buy Prologues from GM. And then that they'd somehow try to reinvent the wheel to such an extent on the 0 Series that they spent billions with nothing to show for it. Two to three decades ago I was such a Honda fanboy and now I just don't really get what they're about.

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Due-Combination7924@reddit

everybody else is losing thier ass onproducing (and canceling) EVs exccept tesla. They are making the smart move.

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Teutonic-Tonic@reddit

Interesting side note. Honda completely shut down their gas lawn mower business and now makes 100% electric mowers which is wild given how their car division is taking the opposite approach.

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TheDistantEnd@reddit

Honda execs toured EV factories in China, and the reality of how out of their depth they truly were became evident. Probably also why they're retreating hsrd to the American market, where EVs are stalling out a little.

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cat_prophecy@reddit

But like...how?

The only EV they sell in the North American market is the Prologue which was a joint development with GM.

Worldwide they only sell 6 EV models (if you count the ZDX as its own) and four of them are joint ventures with other companies.

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Oh_ffs_seriously@reddit

They have developed their own platform (meant for the USDM) and decided to cancel it weeks before release. A lot of R&D spending with no way to recoup it == a loss.

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cat_prophecy@reddit

Was that the stupid project with Sony? Afeela? Or is that still on for deliveries?

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OoIIoO@reddit

Their development strategy for their low-volume, high priced flagship NSX didn't work for mass-produced EV development? Who could have seen this coming?!

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boilershilly@reddit

They axed their new ones that were supposed to come out soon. The loss is them writing off the R&D for those cancelled models. It's not them losing money on the evs they do sell, though they probably are

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costafilh0@reddit

Taking a loss on every EV made just like everyone else?

Who would have thought?

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adamfps@reddit

Top 1% and downplaying EV market, many such cases

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Teutonic-Tonic@reddit

*Except Tesla.

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Recoil42@reddit

ITT: People who don't understand how a write-down works.

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K_R_A_K_E_N_540@reddit

EV overhaul ? More like ignoring the EV market.

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InsomniacAlways@reddit

Toyotas been ignoring the EV market and it’s working out great for them lol

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derprunner@reddit

Toyota has been selling hybrids so good, people cross shop them with genuine EVs, for at least a decade now.

The same cannot be said for Honda.

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InsomniacAlways@reddit

You’re not wrong, my point is Honda has a bigger problem than simply ignoring the ev market

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adamfps@reddit

But he never said it was the biggest problem, he was connecting to the article which highlights an issue, not the issue

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

Toyota is big enough to do their car business, but Honda and other Japanese automakers can’t. The size between Toyota and all other Japanese automakers, Toyota is much bigger than them.

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ConfusedTapeworm@reddit

Toyota's hybrid tech sits perfectly in the gap between EVs and ICEs. Almost as reliable and efficient as EVs, but without the pains of switching from ICE to full-on electric, like the range anxiety or the unfortunately quite real inconvenience of charging in certain regions. Perfect "transitional" drivetrain, and as you've noted, its financial success speaks for itself.

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Accro15@reddit

Eh, Toyota has been slow-rolling it, but not ignoring it. Aside from the GR cars, all of their models have at least a hybrid option, half a dozen PHEV options and two EVs. Honda just has Civic, Prelude, Accord and CR-V hybrids, none of which are PHEV and then the prologue EV.

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Missed you 😘