How bad does a checkride failure hurt a CFIs career ?

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Zamboni007@reddit

What did you fail and what were the condescending remarks?

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LikenSlayer@reddit

He sent you for the checkride, who failed who?

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This. I had a lot of students fail for various reasons. I was passionate about teaching but I did not have a knack for it. Any time my students failed, I felt like I failed them. That failure will hurt them way more than it’ll hurt me.

The only one I felt wasn’t my fault was my commercial student who flew into a cloud VFR. You should know by that point not to do that.

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Mach_v_manchild@reddit

I've been upset when students failed over the years. But not at the student, with myself. It means I missed something I their training. If your instructor was a dick to you, find a new instructor.

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_TheS0viet_@reddit

As a student, don’t always beat yourself up over it. People act differently in certain situations. Students like myself, beat ourselves up over the smallest things. Had a day I was doing terrible landings, although in tough cross wind conditions, beat myself up so bad after 4 laps in the pattern that I called the lesson short. My head wasn’t all there that day. Multiple factors did that and my instructor asking if everything was alright didn’t help me.

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TheSpaceman_530@reddit

Had a similar experience in a lesson a couple weeks back. My instructor gave me some encouragement after we shut the plane off, and commended me for calling the lesson short if I felt I wasn't in the right headspace. Didn't stop me from beating myself up for a whole week after, though. 😂🫠

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Mach_v_manchild@reddit

Thanks homie! I appreciate your view! And I've been instructing for an above average time, and I totally get that! I should clarify, if I have a student that goes outside of what I taught them, and they fail, thats on them, but I've definitely had some that I felt like I failed them. But live and learn, and be a better instructor.

I hope your training is going well!

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GetSlunked@reddit

I simply cannot imagine blaming a student for a checkride failure. We sign the endorsements and the IACRA. If they fail, by nature that’s on us. OP’s instructor should give it up for one of the thousands of applicants serious about what it means to be an instructor.

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Mach_v_manchild@reddit

You also cant think of it like that everytime, theres a difference between a giving your student everything they need and not doing enough. I have had... let's say several students that I blamed for their failure. I've signed off litterally hundreds over almost a decade. Every now and again, a student will surprise you. You can do everything right, they can show you that they are ready, and still do unbelievably stupid shit in front of an examiner. As an instructor its ok to say "my student failed" as opposed to "I failed my student" when the situation warrants. You can't beat yourself up over your student making mistakes. If you made a mistake in their training, its on you to learn from it and do better. But student pilots gonna student pilot. They're going to try (for the first time ever) this super cool new technique they learned on YouTube for a power off 180. They will surprise you. Sometimes its on them.

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GetSlunked@reddit

I hear you, and will keep that in mind in the future. I’ve only been teaching for 3 years, so I still feel like an amateur in some ways.

I’ve also had students fail where I’ve thought “that’s not at all how I taught you”. I get students mess up. I don’t beat myself up all that much - I’m more sad for them, and in turn, wondering what I could have done better. Sometimes that answer is “you can lead a horse to water….”

I appreciate the perspective, genuinely. With the CFI marketing the way it is, with hundreds or thousands of candidates in the wings, it’s hard not to be supercritical of my own teaching. I still think a CFI has no right to be condescending from a professional perspective, but I understand that sometimes, come gametime, the student freezes or does something they’ve never done before.

I appreciate the reassurance.

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Mach_v_manchild@reddit

Honestly homie, it seems like you understand it more than you're giving yourself credit for. It seems like you're a good instructor. Can't speak for you knowledge or teaching skills or anything, just how much you care, you're probably doing great. Be the best isntructor you can be, and unpopular opinion, focus your effort where its reciprocated.

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redditburner_5000@reddit

Zero, unless you're one of a long string of busts that he's recommended.

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JoeyFromAZ2019@reddit

Man, do I understand the freeze. DE: Demonstrate slow flight. Me: what's that? Finally figured it out before it was too late

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320sim@reddit

It's no defense for the CFI but it affects them if they're trying to get Gold Seal

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MockCheckrideDotCom@reddit

And that's fully on the CFI for recommending candidates that aren't ready. I'm guessing the downvotes are from those of us who know that 80% pass rateisn't a hard threshold to hit if you're a reasonably capable instructor who trains people with the understanding that the ACS standards are a minimum level of competency, not the training target.

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vivalicious16@reddit

CFIs should only care about the AOPA CFI awards. My instructor was best in the west the year I got my PPL. Was the best training I had, gold seal doesn’t mean shit

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BrettSchirley22@reddit

Nobody cares about gold seals and sick of CFIs treating student like shit cause of them

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320sim@reddit

As I said, it's no defense to a CFI acting like this, but it's just a way it could affect them. In some schools, I've heard of CFIs earning a higher wage if they're a Gold Seal. And I would argue that it has use attracting students especially for an independent CFI. Have you heard stories about CFIs treating students because of it before?

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BrettSchirley22@reddit

Find me one person in this sub that asks prospective CFI’s if they have their gold seal before contracting them lol stop it

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320sim@reddit

I'm not going to search reddit finding such a person, but I personally know CFIs that advertise it. I'm not saying it matters or defines anyone, but it's a respectable personal achievement. I just assumed that you might have some stories because you said you were tired of it

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BrettSchirley22@reddit

I’m not actually asking you to poll Reddit dude. Nothing crazy to share. Just when I went through training, heard CFIs complaining about their students and affecting their pass rate. Airlines don’t give a shit about your dumb gold seal but will care about the student who just had a rough day on a checkride that will be on their PRD forever. It’s gross

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BluProfessor@reddit

As a CFI now, I have no clue if my previous instructors are Gold Seal instructors or not and they're all good friends of mine.

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flyingforfun3@reddit

Aiming for gold seal or not, there is never a reason to be condescending to a student.

Instructors can mess up, students can have bad days, DPEs can have an off day and decide to fail for any little thing.

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SmithKenichi@reddit

I get that no one really cares about gold seal, but why is this downvoted? It's an objectively true statement. Reddit moment.

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No_Lettuce8005@reddit

Getting downvoted for providing some insight on what the MAIN TOPIC of the post was about 🤦‍♂️ …sad

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terminalE4butmaxAFT@reddit

Is this instructor at ATP or thrust flight?

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scottyh214@reddit

One? You can get past it. It’s when you have multiple on one ride or several different rides and you establish a pattern of being unprepared that things become a problem.

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Mazer1415@reddit

Fire his ass. Find someone who cares about you instead of his Gold Seal. He put you down while you were already down. That’s a horrible human.

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Specific_Gas4322@reddit

Clearly not a teacher

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VileInventor@reddit

Grand scheme means nothing, he probably wanted gold seal or some shit.

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jimcarroll_cfi@reddit

My answer is — who cares?! You are the customer, and he is your mentor. Its his job to know when you are ready — and backfill any knowledge gaps you have. Not criticize you for not knowing something!

Don’t give his ego another second of your concern. Focus in preparing for retest. After you pass, you should consider trying another less self-focused instructor.

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More_Than_I_Can_Chew@reddit

The only way it's going to hurt you is if you roll up your pink slip and jam it in your eye.

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makgross@reddit

Yes, it can have a (small) effect. Students sometimes ask about first-time pass rates. Gold Seal depends on pass rate. That can affect pay. Some types of instructor renewal depend on pass rate.

But none of this is your problem. Even if you did something stupid. His role now is to help you through retraining. Berating you is not consistent with that, regardless of how or why you failed.

My first commercial student didn’t internalize the warnings I gave him about his checkride airport (Columbia,CA, for those familiar with it). It has a cliff you must fly directly toward on base, and turn before you get there. And trees at the fence. If you fly a normal pattern, there is plenty of room, but it LOOKS really scary. I warned him about this, and suggested he fly there and practice (it’s an hour each way, so it’s a bit expensive). He didn’t, and checkride nerves got the better of him, causing him to blow EVERY landing and the traffic pattern (per his notice of disapproval). Commercial applicants blowing traffic pattern is next to unheard of. As you might expect, he was devastated. So, I had to help him pick himself up, and flew with him to that airport to help him build confidence. He passed his commercial a week later. This is very much the job of an instructor. Not berating him, even if a proximate cause was not listening to warnings.

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cptnpiccard@reddit

Not at all. When I interviewed for my first CFI job, I was asked about busts and to thoroughly explain them. I did. The interviewer said he appreciated my response and we continued on. Whatever you failed in, make sure that is your strongest point going forward.

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pilotshashi@reddit

You going to teach so act like it.

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MockCheckrideDotCom@reddit

If he's recommending people for rides they aren't prepared for, and is worried about their failures on his career, that is very much HIS problem and not yours.

Now, for you, know that it isn't uncommon to fail a checkride. Assuming this was private pilot level, about 1 in 4 checkrides ends in an unsatisfactory. You'll be able to test again-- hopefully with a better knowledge of what you need to be successful. Yes, you'll be a bit poorer in the short term because of the retest fee, but big picture? Not a huge deal if a one-time failure and subsequent pass.

It may also be worth going to a different instructor to confirm that you're ready for the recheck when that time comes.

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witheringtie975@reddit

Only if you fail 3 times in a row under the same instructor, then they get checked out on a flight to see if they are doing their job right.

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Furry_Foot_yum_yum@reddit

I did a podcast just on this exact topic, the mods on this thread are ass hats so if you’d like the link let me know. It was super helpful even to me, I’m at an airline

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nguyenm@reddit

Chances are, they're being pissy about meeting the requirements for this: https://www.cfibootcamp.com/blog/requirements-for-gold-seal-cfi or https://drs.faa.gov/browse/excelExternalWindow/DRSDOCID113231850720230731193520.0001?modalOpened=true if you're in a United States context.

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theshawnch@reddit

If you failed that’s on your instructor, he endorsed someone who wasn’t adequately prepared per the ACS.

Sounds like you should ask him to refresh his memory on defense mechanisms in the FOI’s.

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haveanairforceday@reddit

Your instructor is being a dick. What reflects poorly on him is his response to this situation

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RunAgreeable7576@reddit

His record will change and his overall percentage will go down. But as a CFI that’s not what should matter. What should matter is that you made a difference and taught someone how to be a pilot. Not chasing some gold seal or number of passes.

Don’t let his frustration discourage you. Take it on the chin and be over prepared going forward!

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Few-Panda7558@reddit

What did he fail you for

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

Failed my checkride today on the oral and my Insturctor was visibly upset at me and said some kind of condescending remarks.

I’ve kind of been wondering all day if my failure hurts his record in any way?

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