ULPT Request - Gaslight Team Members In To Retirement

Posted by encorcer83@reddit | UnethicalLifeProTips | View on Reddit | 41 comments

I’m a manager of local govt IT team in England. I have two team members in their late 60s early 70s who I honestly believe will never retire.

They are both fucking useless but local govt employee rules and the unions that back them make it nigh on impossible to fire someone due to poor performance.

The rest of the team can’t stand them and hate working with them, but they’re either completely oblivious to this or so pigheaded they don’t give a shit.

I spend 80% of my time managing these two and 20% of my time managing the 18 others.

How can I gaslight them into voluntary retirement?

Thanks!

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cdh79@reddit

Have you actually tried talking to them about your concerns?

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rf31415@reddit

Japanese dismissal. Don’t assign them any work. Relocate their desks to the worst part of the building. Rebuke them if they are not doing work related stuff.

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SaltMarshGoblin@reddit

Also, take their red Swingline stapler.

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seascribbler@reddit

Yeah, and see if the company is just willing to take them off payroll until they end up just leaving.

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JeffSergeant@reddit

Pro-tip, implement timesheets about the same time, just to double-down on the soul-destroying.

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LucidSteel@reddit

If you're looking for Unethical, try this out:

Fuck the government and make their remaining years as pleasant as possible.

If they've put in years but have fallen behind just do your best to reward them for their loyalty. See if there are any Legacy systems around that they are familiar with and make them the experts /champions of those systems. Use them as a resource and not a burden.

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Amonette2012@reddit

Unless you're still essential AND as competent ad a younger person, orry but hogging a job if you have a pension and are no longer useful is selfish. Retire and get a hobby unless you still actually need the income. If you don't, fuck off and let younger people progress. Don't sit there like a decrepit useless turd while other people have to put up with your aged slowness just because your employer's hands are tied.

And I say this as someone who genuinely loves older people. My parents still work in their 70s because they have their own businesses amd don't have employees, which is cool, but if you're slowing everyone down and blocking other's careers when you don't need the money you can eat a dick.

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Grant_Winner_Extra@reddit

The problem you are describing is poor management. It’s not the worker’s responsibility to stop working just to let some other sap have a job. And be careful with this kind of thinking because it comes full circle really fast.

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Amonette2012@reddit

So people have no social responsibility?

In some countries management's hands are tied unless performance is very bad. Mildly bad won't cut it.

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yesillhaveonemore@reddit

Set barely realistic timelines. Give them the worst work and set the highest expectations.

Document everything and play by the book.

Do not let them take an inch of liberty unless entitled to do so. Strict arrival / departure / break times. Deny vacations at “business critical” times. Demand daily progress reports and “growth plans” that never materialize into action on your part.

Make working there as unpleasant as possible. Criticize their output immediately and directly. Meaningful consequences for every unmet expectation.

If they complain about unfair treatment, state that the expectations are the same for everyone and that others’ performance is not their concern.

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Grant_Winner_Extra@reddit

In the US this would easily result in the pair winning a significant lawsuit for harassment. Do NOT do this if you don’t want to spend the rest of your career in the same boat.

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seascribbler@reddit

Eh, it depends on the company in the U.S. If they are big and wealthy enough, they likely have their own internal legal team and are harder to win going up against them unless you can provide conclusive evidence. Seeing as how they are a union in England though, these tactics will be a lot more difficult to implement without consequences.

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SnodePlannen@reddit

So treat them like Americans basically

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Snotmyrealname@reddit

I can see you’ve been in middle management.

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mtbmike@reddit

My god, you’re evil

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BarnabyJones20@reddit

But he just described corporate jobs in america?

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Tinmanwpk@reddit

Isn't that great!

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hunterxy@reddit

Did you miss the part where they are union? You cant just pretend to be fair, that shit will never fly, in fact it will be worse because they could get a discrimination case going.

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Ozmorty@reddit

Except any trivial investigation that follows will show the treatments was clearly punitive and very much targeted because the rest of the team aren’t managed the same way.

Bad call.

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123ihavetogoweeeeee@reddit

Manage the rest of the team the same way. Hold people accountable and document document document.

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Ozmorty@reddit

I take your point, but this ain’t it: “Make working there as unpleasant as possible. Criticize their output immediately and directly …”

Yes to actually managing fairly, firmly with accountability and clear communication of expectations and performance feedback.

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YouArentReallyThere@reddit

This. Most managers fail at dealing with poor performers simply because they don’t write things down. Without the receipts, you’re toothless.

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RikkiLostMyNumber@reddit

Damn, Satan, take it easy.

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123ihavetogoweeeeee@reddit

You'll need to treat the entire team the same way. Don't criticize people, instead provide constructive feedback and ask what barriers they have. Then remove those barriers and keep documenting the entire time. Eventually they get tired and go, but the price is high. You must gird your loins.

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Grant_Winner_Extra@reddit

Dude seriously, this post makes me think you need to be the one getting piss disk‘d… Don’t be an ageist AH ffs.

Figure out how to use them properly. And 70? Doesn’t government service have a mandatory retirement age?

There are so many solutions to productivity issues that don’t need unethical approaches. And generally, in my experience, managers that complain about staff based on age, gender, etc are the actual problem, not the staff.

🤦‍♂️🙄

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jpjimm@reddit

Guy said he is in England. There is no mandatory retirement age in the UK so that's not an option. In fact the Government would prefer most people worked until they were much older to save on pension payouts.

He is not being ageist as such,but stating they are 'fucking useless' but he can't get rid of them as easily as he would like because they have a good union and would almost certainly go down the 'he doesn't like older workers, it's nothing to do with us being useless and paid more than the youngsters producing 3 times the output we are' route.

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Wish I were more creative though!

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gloggs@reddit

There's a Seinfeld episode about scheduling 5pm or later meetings and Jerry's dad is hangry and tired