Isn't it ironic that many nazi Germany produced Kar 98k's were donated to Israel after WW2?
Posted by No_Dress_2107@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 45 comments
jackherzog33@reddit
I read that Czechoslovakia made K98 with Nazis markings after the war, is it true???
Roaddog113@reddit
Otto likes this. 😝
flo_bhoot@reddit
weapons outlast their makers - practical choice when you need guns and europe's full of surplus after a massive war
EnvironmentalBag6409@reddit
The seeds of evil sown by Nazi guilt are now driving humanity toward World War III.
doodgedly-done@reddit
Not just K98s. I bought a mint MG-34 kit that came from Israel. And Jaques Littlefield had a Panzer IV that came from Israel as well.
SPECTREagent700@reddit
My understanding is the Panzer IV’s were sold to Syria by Czechoslovakia and then captured by Israel
IggyWon@reddit
The last kill of a Panzer IV by a Sherman occurred in 1967.
SPECTREagent700@reddit
How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man?
BigHardMephisto@reddit
Iirc one of their first aircraft was bf109 frames leftover fitted with leftover (underpowered) bomber engines
phantom_maloo559@reddit
Avia S-199 it used a junkers jumo engine instead of the Daimler Benz 605 and was very underpowered but they got a bunch from the Czech's as well as Spitfires that they flew from Czechoslovakia to Israel via Sicily I think.
IggyWon@reddit
Low horsepower but incredible torque. Apparently they were a real bitch to keep straight on takeoff and landing because of all that torque roll/steer.
Global_Theme864@reddit
Well if you think about it, in 1947 there were a lot of them floating around Europe that were no longer needed.
Prince_of_Kyrgyzstan@reddit
And they are Mausers, whole lot of countries were using Mauser action rifles way before Israel as a state existed. Sure it was the Nazis who made them, but the guns predecessors are really widespread.
IggyWon@reddit
It had been the standard military rifle for half the world for over 50 years by the end of WW2.
No_Dress_2107@reddit (OP)
Werent there walther p38s also?
Global_Theme864@reddit
Not as many, but yeah. 1.2 million P38s made vs 14.6 million 98Ks.
shark_aziz@reddit
(Ian has an even more ironic video on this - German made Kar98k, used by Israel, firing Malaysian made ammunition.)[https://youtu.be/I_Bn7msCJ-Q?si=RZWoW8tUjpD531e-]
TheDarkerWater_@reddit
If I’m not mistaken Wehrmacht soldiers served in the IDF too which is interesting in its self
LoboLocoCW@reddit
Perhaps you’re confusing them with the Waffen-SS veterans who volunteered to keep killing the Jews?
https://rastko.rs/files/books/4f1df5c13f1da.pdf
Global_Theme864@reddit
Yeah I would need a pretty rock solid academic source before I accepted that claim as fact.
elchsaaft@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Skorzeny
How's about an SS Obersturmbannführer?
Global_Theme864@reddit
Being a Mossad asset and serving in the IDF are two very different things.
Cur14@reddit
I don't have any official sources, but there were plenty of Mischlinge in the Wehrmacht so it would be shocking if none of those emigrated to Israel and served.
neurolologist@reddit
Fyi there has over the past year been a proliferation of ai slop ww2 history channels on youtube. Be very careful with sources/where you get your information.
Salty-Pack-4165@reddit
Those K98 weren't donated. They were sold along with pile of ammo and as a part of much larger weapons package. Czechoslovakian gov was willing to sell just about anything and they did sell small arms,ammo,planes and I think radio equipment. They tried to sell Me-262 but Israelis got smart and didn't buy them.
Bigger problem was getting all the purchase to Israel and it was done by air using purchased surplus aircraft . That meant size and weight restrictions.
zorniy2@reddit
They also flew Bf-109 against Egyptian Spitfires.
NthngToSeeHere@reddit
The Czech Avia 199 was a very poor copy of the BF-109. Very underpowered and terrible build quality. They bought something like 5 of them. One crashed in training and 3 others were quickly unsuitable to fly and were used as spares for the only one that saw combat.
LobsterManCommander@reddit
Im not sure this post is fit for this sub. It's just like some thinly veiled propaganda. Millions of kar98 were made there going to end up everywhere. Epically to a hot zone directly following the worst war in human history.
thezerech@reddit
They weren't donated to Israel, they were purchased at no small expense from Czechoslovakia.
The Czechoslovak weapons industry has a long history, and their facilities were used extensively by Nazi occupiers and their allies/collaborators to produce weapons, tanks, and aircraft. Many of these facilities used slave labor. This caused problems for everyone using those items, since the people enslaved the by the Nazis often sabotaged weapons where and when they could. Many Israeli soldiers were Holocaust survivors, some had been enslaved themselves. After WW2 there was a lot of devastation, the USSR also confiscated significant amounts of industrial equipment and machinery. So, to bolster their economy and arms industry the Czechoslovakian communists decided to sell their surplus to Israel. The money would help them rebuild so they could retain some independence in the arms industry, which they did. The Czechoslovakians built more of their own designs than any other Eastern Bloc satellite state throughout the Cold War. The money they made selling weapons to Israel was obviously far from solely responsible for this, but it definitely helped.
There wasn't an ideological component, being a Zionist was enough to get you imprisoned in the USSR, if not shot (under Stalin least). In Czechoslovakia German speaking Jews, including many Holocaust survivors, were being deported to Germany as part of the ethnic cleansing of Germans from Czechoslovakia, which is a whole separate can of worms. Indeed there were even anti-Jewish pogroms in Czechoslovakia in 1948, mostly having to do with the restitution of property stolen by the Nazis. But Israel was, at the time, led by a Socialist coalition, and fighting highly reactionary Arab monarchies and Nazi collaborators in the Palestinian movement like the Mufti and some of his Husseini relatives. Britain was openly favoring the Arabs, selling them weapons, British officers even trained and commanded the Jordanian Arab legion, the only effective Arab fighting force of the Israeli War of Independence. The Arab Legion would go on to secure East Jerusalem and capture the regions of Judea and Samaria. Which were ethnically cleansed of their Jewish populations and annexed to Jordan, hence to be called the Transjordan and the region to be called the West Bank, until 1967. So if you could make some cash and screw with British interests in the Middle East, that was really a win-win for the Czechoslovakians.
A few years later, the selling of weapons to Israel would be used as a pretext for an antisemitic purge of the Czechoslovak Communist party. Jewish officials, despite very explicitly and obviously not being Zionists (membership in Communist or Zionist organizations was mutually exclusive), were purged, imprisoned, and even executed. The reason was internal politicking and bare simply hatred of Jews. Most of the people executed, being high ranking Communist officials were complicit and guilty of numerous crimes committed by the regime while they were in power, although those obviously weren't what they were on trial for.
justaheatattack@reddit
and donated, by COMMUNISTS.
wearyshoes@reddit
If the guy in the back fires that rifle, the guy in the front isn't going to have any hearing left in his right ear.
_pxe@reddit
I had one a couple years ago
It was ironic seeing all the eagles still on the parts(it was an early one, so every piece had the nazi logo) while serving for the IDF
Chuj_Domana@reddit
Czechs even imported Messerschmitts in 1948.
OEFdeathblossom@reddit
Sold by the Czechs (not donated) but I always loved that Israel was created by defeating the Arab armies with former Nazi guns (like the MG-34 which appears to have been the started MG) and Bf-109 copies
No_Dress_2107@reddit (OP)
Exactly
_That_Guy_in_AZ_@reddit
Ironic? Nope! They were prevalent after the war, more than one country used them or already had them in service long before WW2, and the Israelis removed anything that had Nazi symbols. And this was a time when weapons were needed badly and a major world war had recently ended and so many nations had surpluses of them that were either surrendered or captured, and were in warehouses doing nothing.
elchsaaft@reddit
Not just materiel, personnel as well! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Skorzeny
AntiqueGunGuy@reddit
It was very nice of Hitler to do that for them
Izengrimm@reddit
and the very first fighter plane in Israeli Air Force was Czech-built Messerschmitt Bf-109G (with Junkers engine instead of Daimler-Benz)
KineticTechProjects@reddit
There's a lot of irony with Israel, both historically and modern.
TXGuns79@reddit
Europe had plenty of both in the mid to late '40s.
Iateurm8@reddit
They also used some MG-34s on a souple vehicles, pretty sure they had 42s as well
Nemoralis99@reddit
Also, Avia S-199 which is Czechoslovakian derivative of Messerschmitt Bf-109, although with Jumo 211.
RoneliKaneli@reddit
I've got one of those! The eagles have been defaced with a screwdriver or some other tool. It has an Israeli stock and possibly a barrel as well, still in the original 8 mm though. The receiver is a 1940 Mauser Oberndorf.
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