Normal to get arrested for a ND
Posted by toastedvacuum@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 94 comments
Long story short my mom’s husband had a ND. It left his house entered and exited a neighbor house and then entered a 2nd neighbors house. The police were called and the neighbors are pushing to press charges. What can my mother expect in terms of charges her husband might face? Is it normal to get arrested and taken to jail for an ND?
Shadow_Law@reddit
Yes, it is normal and he should expect it. Nobody can guess what the charges might be without knowing where you are (but you shouldn't tell us). Nobody should be talking to anybody about this except a criminal defense attorney.
I'm a lawyer in PA and what I've seen is usually some combination of discharging a firearm into an occupied structure (felony) and recklessly endangering another person (misdemeanor). Usually one count of each for each bullet and/or person in the houses.
Background_Wrap9472@reddit
I’m also in PA…if nobody is injured, I’ve seen this result in ARD. I’ve only seen reckless endangerment charged.
Shadow_Law@reddit
Yeah, I had one recently that was two counts of each of those offenses and still ARD, but there are several counties in the SE region that won't do ARD for anything involving a firearm.
Rdubya291@reddit
Well... you gotta look at the city in that corner...
Background_Wrap9472@reddit
Or if your name is Leonard Hill, you can shoot somebody who is running away from you, get charged with agg assault, be offered ARD by the DA(for a shooting), and when the judge denies it, the DA will just withdraw the entire case.
Pays to be friends with corruption!
Background_Wrap9472@reddit
I’m in bucks. The DAO sometimes will go for that. But I’ve only seen it happen once. The defendant’s good background played a huge role.
rjbergen@reddit
Would a prosecutor pursue the property damage aspect? In some jurisdictions, I would imagine the repairs for 3 holes in the exterior of homes may surpass the threshold to make it at least misdemeanor property damage.
Background_Wrap9472@reddit
Sure, to be used as a plea bargaining chip or to waive the preliminary hearing. But usually it’s just ordered by the court of common pleas to be paid as restitution regardless.
TrolleyDilemma@reddit
This is why we shouldn’t „normalize” having a ND as if it just happens to everyone eventually.
Guns don’t just do that. You acted in a way that caused that to happen. It is your fault. Follow the rules of firearm safety and you will not have a ND. It is literally that simple.
ModestMarksman@reddit
It makes you safer if you ND. Personally I wouldn't trust someone who hasn't had an ND.
^ actual response someone gave to me when I said you should never ND.
ThePretzul@reddit
The only kind of “ND” I’ve ever had is a round going off maybe half a second before or after I expected it to because I wasn’t used to the trigger on that gun before. Still hit the target, just not dead center if I was shooting off hand.
I intend to keep it that way. It’s not hard if you ALWAYS follow the fundamental rules of gun safety. They’re not optional.
ModestMarksman@reddit
If you think you'll never have an ND because you follow fundamental rules of gun safety you'll get complacent and then have an ND.
^ Another actual response I've received from someone when talKing about how easy it is to just always clear your firearm
ThePretzul@reddit
I understand it’s embarrassing to have done it, but damn if they don’t have some of the most insane cope to try to deflect from the actual problem of shooting bullets in unintended directions.
PolarWeasel@reddit
You drive more carefully after you've hit a pedestrian. Personally I wouldn't trust someone who hasn't hit a pedestrian while driving.
FlapperGasfire@reddit
That's why I only carry and use my P320. Gives me great plausible deniability!
XLR27@reddit
Except p320
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
If your ND damages other peoples property, especially their homes where they may have been inside, yes.
He needs a lawyer, and should say nothing to the police except:
boostedb1mmer@reddit
Paraphrasing the words of any lawyer " SHUT THE FUCK UP. JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP."
Tims_Learing_Center@reddit
Jesus. What caliber was it
boostedb1mmer@reddit
Provided it's not a brick or stone pretty much any bullet will sail through a home with zero issues. 2x4s don't slow down or deform FMJs basically at all.
rjbergen@reddit
Aside from mobile homes (aka a trailer park), I’d love to know what caliber has that penetration power.
CountryBoyCanSurvive@reddit
New houses are sheathed with a sealed foam board envelope and then siding over that. You can literally just kick your way through between two studs.
pacmanfan@reddit
Wood sheathing is the norm in my region, but I've heard of builders that use foam sheathing and vinyl siding... A sharp knife would get you inside the house anywhere within a few minutes. Insane.
Old_MI_Runner@reddit
I worked on a few duplexes decades ago. I think they had plywood or OSB on the corners and foam or other similar sheets elsewhere that provided no structural support or barrier to bullets. I am not sure how much plywood or OSB would be required to stop 9mm or other bullets.
I used a scrap 2x4 to hold play cards which where shot from 50 yards. It was windy so card were tipping back and forth so a friend shot low on the cards and one 22LR bullet hit the 2x4. It entered the narrow section of the board and came out the top about 1" in from the edge. It split off a 1"x 1" section of wood.
I am not sure how good just a sheet of plywood or OSB or other common wood sheeting products will stop most calibers of bullets.
Nemo_the_Exhalted@reddit
I build houses, we use wood.
rjbergen@reddit
That’s regional dependent. Houses aren’t built like that in Metro Detroit. My house was built in 2023 and it’s OSB sheathing and brick, with 2 small sections of vinyl siding.
Naxster64@reddit
My house got hit with a 556 fmj round, would have been fired from a gravel pit ~1/3 - 1/2 mile away.
It went through the exterior wall (stucco | plywood | drywall) and through 1 interior wall ( drywall | drywall) then hit a second interior wall, damaging but not penetrating it.
Background_Wrap9472@reddit
I once saw a 9mm fired from a Kriss vector ND.
It went through the couch, through the TV, through the interior/exterior wall, through a wooden fence, into the neighbor’s house, and lodged in a wooden box thing on the opposite side of the neighbor’s house.
MajorProphet90@reddit
If it's not hitting a brick wall or studs, 380, 9mm, buckshot, 223, 270, 308, and just about any other common caliber can go through multiple walls. Even 22lr probably could depending on what it is hitting!
toastedvacuum@reddit (OP)
I know it was a 9mm for sure but Idk what pistol. It was either out of a 43x or some other compact carry gun
AldoTheApache3@reddit
What kind of houses? Trailers? If houses, are they all vinyl siding?
Tims_Learing_Center@reddit
Wow!
RabicanShiver@reddit
It doesn't take a special caliber. This is why I always tell people on here I am for a 12 gauge for home defense and everyone calls me a fudd. But truth be told a 5.56 will go through multiple layers of drywall and stucco no problems. And travel hundreds of yards before terminal ballistic decline grounds the round. Scatter shot will not do this.
So look at most homes, wooden frame with drywall and stucco walls, or aluminum siding. If you don't shoot through multiple studs it's like basically shooting through paper.
AmnFucker@reddit
"It's an 88 magnum, it shoots thru schools"
https://i.redd.it/uui27g114y0h1.gif
MajorProphet90@reddit
Could have been just about anything. Nearly any handgun/rifle/shotgun round has the ability to easily travel through multiple walls unless it's hitting something sturdy like brick or studs
PrincessRut0@reddit
I don’t know if it’s normal or not, but he SHOULD be arrested for this. Someone could have been killed due to his negligence, and would have probably been some kind of reckless manslaughter if he had.
Purple_funnelcake@reddit
I completely understand why you reference him as your mothers husband rather than your stepfather. What a fkn idiot
WoodEyeLie2U@reddit
Lawyer is key here. A buddy recently had an ND (he's mortified). The cops who responded didn't arrest him but the did write him up for several felonies that has a lawyer got the DA to through out before the first court date.
FuryOfRed@reddit
What state?
Midnight_Rider98@reddit
Are you serious?
It left house A from where he was playing with his gun ignoring the safety rules, the bullet entered and exited house B, it ended up in house C.
There's a whole host of charges he can face, from negligent discharge statute's to reckless endangerment to destruction of property to local ordinance forbidding discharging a firearm within city limits depending on where they live.
He needs a lawyer, your mom needs to stay away from those neighbors for a while, with a sincere apology they may drop the charges but the state can and likely will continue to pursue them. A lot of this can be plead down if no one was actually hurt.
90bronco@reddit
If I was the neighbor I'd be filing charges. The attitude of "support people who own guns even if they're being stupid" is ignorant and hurts our god given rights.
rjbergen@reddit
Yea, even the dollar value of property damage could land misdemeanor or felony charges depending on the laws of the jurisdiction. That many holes through exteriors of homes isn’t cheap to repair.
A prosecuting attorney may also pursue unsafe storage laws for his jurisdiction.
It’s time for a lawyer.
cmhbob@reddit
What storage laws?
rjbergen@reddit
It depends on the jurisdiction. Michigan has safe storage laws requiring firearms to be unloaded and locked when not in use. Depends on where this happened and what the prosecutor pursues.
thor561@reddit
The safe storage law I believe only applies if minors are present or you have reasonable expectation that they will be present in your home and could gain access to an unsecured firearm.
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-28-429
Fly_Dreams@reddit
Okay but thats dumb right, because how can you prove it wasnt stored right, ND might have happened upon taking it out of the said storage or being put back into it. So highly doubt storage laws will apply here. They would apply if a kid got a hold of a gun and then something happened. More likely scenario.
cmhbob@reddit
It's pretty clear it was in use, even if he was just getting ready to clean it. This doesn't sound like a case of someone gaining access they weren't supposed to have.
Sea-Routine9227@reddit
I misread this as “he” instead of “it”. I kept wondering where the ND happened and if he was going down the block showing off his new gat to his buddies.
SHD_Tech@reddit
The title and summation question are misleading and irrelevant.
It is not “normal” to get arrested for an ND. He don’t get arrested for an ND.
It IS normal to get arrested for shooting into multiple neighbors houses. He got arrested for shooting into neighbors houses.
That it was negligent is not pertinent to the arrestability of the action. It’s literally only about the result, not the cause.
Sladay@reddit
He could get everything from reckless endangerment to discharging a firearm within City limits depending on where you live. He could also get sued in civil court for any damages both emotional and physical to the property from the neighbors as well.
SooSpicey@reddit
Depends on the state and county. In AZ Maricopa county, you'll get a class 6 felony with a mandatory minimum jail sentence
AmnFucker@reddit
Was it an "88 Magnum"?
WillBrink@reddit
Have you/they spoken to an actual attorney? Depends on a number of factors, and an attorney should have been contacted immediately.
Cliffinati@reddit
A ND alone no
When the ND passes through multiple 3rd party houses yes.
AlarmingDetective526@reddit
That’s going to be a long, hard and expensive road. Accidental, negligent or whatever you want to call it, the neighbors house was shot. Arrest and/or detention is the bare minimum in a case like this. Leave it to the lawyers, it’s going to get messy.
AuthoritariWrongdoer@reddit
I'm pretty common practice for a negligent discharge to result in being charged for misdemeanor offenses. I've actually heard of people getting low level felonies if it's particularly egregious. It's really not a joke, discharging a firearm in a populated place is going to get you arrested and sentenced. It can be enough to prevent ownership in the future. He should be talking to and retaining a lawyer in gun crimes.
__justmyopinion@reddit
from the title: nah, not always
from the description: absolutely fucking yes
IntenseSpirit@reddit
Is it normal? No.
But that was not a normal ND.
ChevChelios9941@reddit
I rest my case your honor.
preparedbassfisher@reddit
Bro is for sure gonna face charges
hessxpress@reddit
This is going to depend on the state. In my state, you might be trespassing by projectile (3rd degree felony) and/or Culpable Negligence (2nd degree misdemeanor, no injuries, 1st degree misdemeanor with injuries)
Warhorse_99@reddit
Man….Would you be arrested if you just willfully shot into your neighbors houses?
Talk to a lawyer.
Black_CatLounge@reddit
Everyone is lucky nobody was injured or killed. If he does go to jail, he deserved it. If you don't have Snapcaps for all your calibers, get them so you don't have to cycle live rounds in your house to test your weapons.
chemicalgeekery@reddit
Hopefully he faces charges and jail time.
Successful_Link4541@reddit
no runaways here
JediTerrorist@reddit
Everybody is doing desk pops out here…. looks at 45
sumguyontheinternet1@reddit
My shield 40 just quivered
Broke_Bak_Jak@reddit
When your negligent discharge endangers the occupants of two homes in addition to your own, yes it is absolutely normal to face charges, and he damned well should.
PM_Me_UR-FLASHLIGHT@reddit
If it passed through two houses and stopped in a third, I would be shocked if he didn't look at jail time. He's lucky he isn't looking at a manslaughter charge.
cmhbob@reddit
What state?
Rural, urban, or suburban location?
Any injuries?
SaltyClub9710@reddit
ND?
Quadrenaro@reddit
Negligent discharge
joelfarris@reddit
At first glance I thought it was North Dakota.
Quadrenaro@reddit
Fair enough. When I first read the post, I thought it was saying the husband went in and out of the neighbors house.
SaltyClub9710@reddit
Thanx
ImpressiveAlarm3992@reddit
As these charges are specific to locality and you don't mention the state they will range from charges deriving from the categories specific to firearms of: criminal damage, criminal negligence, discharge within X distance, reckless endangering safety etc. Depending on the state it could be charged as a misdemeanor or a felony. Might be 1 - 6 years in jail, 1k - 10k dollar fine. Loss of the ability to possess a firearm for 10 years. It really depends on the state and what they specifically cite him with and if some of the charges or sentence can be commuted via the use of programs, consideration of the effect of the loss of 1 parent (serving sentence), consideration of the actual legal damages he caused through his negligence and even his behavior in court, even his behavior when the cops showed up.
jfl561407@reddit
Any advice that doesn’t involve talking to competent legal counsel in the appropriate jurisdiction is wrong.
Quadrenaro@reddit
Feels like there is more to the story if it felt relevant enough that he entered two neighbors houses.
GamingMom219@reddit
Yeah. Curious what caliber it was.
xj98jeep@reddit
Eh, if they live in turbo-suburbia where the houses are two feet apart and the round happened to only hit drywall I could see it with a "normal" caliber. Kinda hope this guy gets his ass handed to him tbh, so irresponsible. Imagine if that killed your family dog or god forbid a kid or something
GamingMom219@reddit
That was my first thought, kids. Even though I currently live in a VERY rural area I was born in Dearborn MI where in some places you can almost reach out a window & touch your neighbor's house. However those are made from old school brick, so the likelihood of making it through multiple houses is highly unlikely.
I am very much in agreement with you about punishment though. Prior to my husband buying me my daily carry, for years he taught me proper gun safety. Our son as well. He's prior service and it's the most important thing to him when it comes to guns. I know not all PS are like that, but I'm grateful he is...and that we live in a constitutional carry state.
Background_Wrap9472@reddit
I once saw a 9mm fired from a Kriss vector ND.
It went through the couch, through the TV, through the interior/exterior wall, through a wooden fence, into the neighbor’s house, and lodged in a wooden box thing on the opposite side of the neighbor’s house.
Torch99999@reddit
45acp ball will do that (I've seen reports of that happening).
I suspect a lot of big slower rifle rounds will too., and probably a lot of shotgun slugs.
When you consider how little force it takes to punch through drywall, it's not that surprising.
testprimate@reddit
It's impossible to say without knowing what state you're in. Hopefully it's a felony so they can take his guns away, he's demonstrated that he shouldn't have them.
rjbergen@reddit
Some jurisdictions may be able to issue a court order to surrender his guns even without a felony conviction.
Ok-Substance-6034@reddit
Your mother's husband should retain a lawyer with 2A experience, no matter if he's actually going to jail or not.
Background_Wrap9472@reddit
Any reputable criminal defense lawyer would be fine.
fordp@reddit
There are NDs and then there is this ND. Ususally don't see such a horizontal and and lucky path on NDs if it were him holstering, picking it up, unloading a bag.. you would expect a different trajectory.
Bet he LARPing and thought it was unloaded... sounds like it passed a couple windows lol
Zaliukas-Gungnir@reddit
I am pretty sure if you discharge a firearm within city limits where I live, whether intentional or not, there is a charge that goes with that. A neighbor shot a raccoon in his yard and received a number of charges over that. I don’t believe any were felony’s though? Different levels of misdemeanor charges.
ThrownAway_1999@reddit
Don’t worry you don’t need a lawyer. He will be fine. Please listen to my comment, for the sake of everyone in his vicinity
Background_Wrap9472@reddit
Yes you can be arrested for this. In my state it’s called reckless endangerment.
Don’t answer any questions. Get a lawyer.
sirbassist83@reddit
if they havent hired a lawyer yet, they need to do so yesterday. if no one was hurt hes unlikely to face jail time, but years of probation and exorbitant fines should be expected if he represents himself or settles for a lawyer provided by the county/court/city. he is absolutely facing potentially serious criminal charges, and reddit is not the right place to be asking questions.
fenuxjde@reddit
Yes, depending on if/who was home. If seen that get child endangerment where I live.
Kromulent@reddit
Recklessness and negligence can both be crimes if they present a real danger to others, and shooting a house usually counts
Also they might get sued too