Class C - Clear RWY then contact ground?

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swoodshadow@reddit

My understanding was that I should exit the first taxiway available unless I’m told differently by the controller.

I can’t actually think of a time that it’s happened because the controllers are on top of it. But I wouldn’t stop on the runway waiting for instructions if I didn’t get a message.

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haveanairforceday@reddit

Runway belongs to tower and tower is your controller until they hand you off. As you roll out on landing they will probably say something like "N1234 exit at charlie, contact ground on point niner"

Read back that whole thing and ask for clarification if needed. Get off the runway where they said (if safely able) then stop, clean up, get your airfield diagram out, and call ground

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BigBadPanda@reddit

This works at a class D and some Class C, but try this at a class B airport and get you’ll miss three calls from ground.

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Lucky the person wasn't asking about a class B airport. Also, do what you gotta do to make things safe. If the controller gets snippy with you because you ask for something to be repeated or because you need a minute to run a checklist then he can fuck right off.

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BigBadPanda@reddit

Need to run a checklist? Put the flaps up and taxi

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TheGacAttack@reddit

Do you remember a time when you were not the most amazing pilot in aviation history?

You don't know what's going on in their cockpit. Any number of things could have happened or could be happening that would cause a delay in ground contact.

Passenger barfed, kid started screaming, suction cupped tablet fell off, spilled my beer, tire felt/looks weird, et cetera ad nauseum.

Or they're just a newer pilot, and still more rigid rote in their procedures. Which is fine.

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BigBadPanda@reddit

In the 737, my first officer has 14 items to clean up after clearing the runway, and they complete every single one while the airplane is moving and talking to ground. They don’t use a checklist. People flying Cessnas can’t taxi and clean up 4 things without stopping and looking at a checklist? Has the bar dropped this low?

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Mountain-Captain-396@reddit

You have two pilots in a 737, in the Navajo or King Air its just me and I gotta do everything, so yes I do stop and run the checklist.

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BigBadPanda@reddit

What would happen if you taxied all the way to the blocks, and the only thing you did was turn off the inertial separators and the boost pumps? Would you blow up? Would the FAA revoke your certificate? Would you die?

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Mountain-Captain-396@reddit

You're an airline pilot, surely you understand the concept of procedural compliance?

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BigBadPanda@reddit

Show me the page in the POH that says where and when those items MUST be accomplished, other than “after landing”

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Mountain-Captain-396@reddit

From the company FOM - "The after-landing checklist must be completed as soon as practical after the aircraft has exited the runway and been brought to a stop."

Company FOM is regulatory, and if I ever decided to skip that checklist to save a few seconds and my chief pilot saw, he would give me hell for it.

Making the ground controller wait 5 seconds isn't going to ruin their day, and if it does then I don't care. I'm flying the plane, he can fly the tower. Why are you letting people outside the cockpit set the pace for your flight?

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BigBadPanda@reddit

So we have gone from talking about GA to a certificated operation. I was using the 737 as an example of high workload being able to be handled without stopping. Never suggested anyone violates SOP from an operator. CFIs are teaching their students to exit the runway, stop, look at a checklist for 4 items, then contact ground. This is absurd. They teach it that way because that’s how their CFI taught them 3 months ago. This subreddit loves to make up memory aids, so here is my contribution for the 4 seat pilots: “CFTL.” It stands for carb heat, flaps, transponder, lights, but anyone can remember it by saying “Call For Taxi, Loser”

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Neither-Way-4889@reddit

A king air on a 135 cert is still GA

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haveanairforceday@reddit

Any pilot worth their salt would NEVER spill the beer

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TheGacAttack@reddit

Any pilot worth their salt would NEVER spill the beer

I'm not the one claiming to be a great pilot!! 😂

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haveanairforceday@reddit

True. Busier airports would benefit from already monitoring ground before exoting the runway. Even better, have a second pilot running comms

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BigBadPanda@reddit

When I cross a runway, I flip to ground when the nose passes the runway centerline. They want me off the runway and tower is not going to tell me to stop in the middle of the runway. Ground is waiting for me, no need to cross the hold short line, stop, and then change frequencies. These guys are ridiculous.

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randombrain@reddit

Note that "Class B airport" and "busier airport" are not synonyms.

Compare the traffic count at FFZ or IWA with the traffic count at STL or MCI.

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AGroAllDay@reddit

This guy knows that FFZ is where the fun really happens

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randombrain@reddit

I kind of expect the pilot to have the airport diagram up already, or at least have it pre-briefed and have a general sense of where they want to go...

I mean, if I tell you "turn left Charlie" and you say "Unfamiliar" then sure, I'll break it down a little more. "Continue across the intersecting runway, then the next left turn is Charlie." But in my experience not many pilots are that unprepared.

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Gabriel_Owners@reddit

Sounds reasonable. But then you've got pilots on reddit asking how to exit a runway. So...ya never know

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haveanairforceday@reddit

For runway exit, sure. Also, if you say "turn right charlie" I can almost always see the sign for charlie so i dont need a diagram.

But if I land at Kadena and the taxi instructions are "taxi to parking via K, D, J, E, K, H" I thinks its reasonable to take a moment to ensure I have all that and it makes sense to me.

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randombrain@reddit

No argument here. I don't give more than two turns in my exit instructions even if I'm planning on keeping you all the way to the ramp. "Turn right Delta, left Kilo, remain this frequency." Then wait until you're established on Kilo and give the rest.

Controllers who try to give more than that get burned.

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haveanairforceday@reddit

Thats a good policy

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falcopilot@reddit

Voice of experience, I'm guessing

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throwaway5757_@reddit (OP)

Will tower also switch me over to departure after taking off or will I have to switch on my own?

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randombrain@reddit

Dude. Have you literally never flown out of a towered airport before? And you have comments elsewhere saying you're a CFI?

Yes, in the USA the Tower will advise when to switch to Departure.

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JT-Av8or@reddit

He’s pretty obviously either a click bait troll or a flying “fan” who’s never taken a lesson in his life. The stuff he asks is basic pre-solo general knowledge.

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haveanairforceday@reddit

Yes. Potentially very quickly so have it preloaded in the radio when you take off.

If you have 2 radios put tower and ground in radio 1 so you can quickly switch. Put ATIS and Approach in the other. Or some combo that accomplishes that same functionality

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3Green1974@reddit

Contact ground when instructed AND you’re clear of the runway. Being clear means being across the runway boundary, not just off of the runway.

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randombrain@reddit

I would say contact ground when instructed OR clear of the runway.

If you're told to contact ground, contact ground right then (or as soon as feasible). If you're at a safe speed, have eyes on the assigned taxiway, and don't have anything else pulling your attention then there's no problem calling Ground when you're still on the runway. As long as Tower didn't say "Turn left Bravo, then contact Ground."

After all, you did pre-set the Ground frequency in your radio's standby. Right?

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3Green1974@reddit

But ground doesn’t control the runway. Why would you contact them if you’re still on it? That doesn’t seem safe. And while I know the AIM isn’t regulatory, 4-3-14 says not to do it until clear of the runway.

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randombrain@reddit

Because ATC gave you an instruction, and 91.123(b) says to follow that instruction, and instructions are assumed to be effective immediately unless they are clearly issued as a conditional.

If I as Tower am telling you "Contact Ground" that means I'm done with you and I want you on Ground's frequency so that they can put you where they need you to go. Don't stop on the wrong side of the hold-short and that's all I care about.

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Fun_Supermarket1235@reddit

This is interesting! Because as a pilot who previously flight instructed, this was exactly my understanding. But at my last airline, the training dept / check airman really cracked down on leaving tower frequency too early when crossing runways at DFW. They hammered into us that even if they said “cross 17R ground .85” we shouldn’t hit the switch and make the call until the whole tail was clear of the hold short line…

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randombrain@reddit

Dumb dumb dumb.

I could see "Don't hit the switch until your nose is clear of the centerline." Not your tail. Definitely not the hold-short line.

You want to get across ASAP. Tower wants you to get across ASAP. Ground wants you to get across ASAP. If you're waiting until you're fully clear of the hold-short, you're starting to slow down way sooner than anyone wants you to.

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Fun_Supermarket1235@reddit

Yeah it’s 121 airline bs. At this new job, their big thing is that I’m (FO) not supposed to call ramp for a gate / spot entry until we cross *ALL* active runways. So in ORD this means we land 27R and taxi for 15min and then when we finally cross 27L at TT we’re almost to the terminal. This CKA was griping at me bc I tried to call on C back by the maint hangar in the middle of nowhere.

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3Green1974@reddit

Okay, but how are you giving that instruction? Typically it’s something like “left at A4, left on A, contact ground point nine.” right? Contact ground comes after you’ve done the other two things. I’ve never once been told by tower (and I bet you never tell pilots) “Contact ground point nine, left at A4, left on A.”

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randombrain@reddit

Okay, and how often do you hear your Departure controller issue "Climb and maintain 10000, contact Center 123.42"?

It's one transmission but two different instructions, and you're expected to comply with each instruction as soon as possible. None of the three of us—Departure, Center, and you—want you to level at 10000. We want you to call Center right away, tell them your assigned altitude, and they'll immediately climb you past that altitude up to FL230.

It's exactly the same thing here. Obviously "left on A" is conditional on first turning "left at A4." But the "contact Ground" part is not conditional unless the controller explicitly makes it conditional by saying "Left at A4, left on A, then contact Ground."

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3Green1974@reddit

I see where you’re going with that but it’s two totally different situations. But, if you’re happy to have someone on your real estate that you’re not talking to….

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randombrain@reddit

From a controller's perspective it's exactly the same situation. At least to this controller.

Not every airport is like DFW or ORD with long sweeping high-speed exits and a clear path to continue taxiing beyond. Some places are both busy and compact.

If having you talking to someone else even when you're still "on my real estate" means that #3 doesn't have to get sent around, because #2 didn't roll to the end of the runway, because you didn't come to stop immediately after exiting and block up the normal runway exit... then yes, I would much rather have you talking to Ground sooner rather than later.

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haveanairforceday@reddit

Thats an interesting perspective. Is that how most ATC views it? My understanding is that if i am on the runway then i AM with tower. I could see how thats more efficient but i could also see how it could add a little risk in some circumstances.

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randombrain@reddit

I can't speak for everywhere but it's a common sentiment in my tower cab at least.

Just like with any frequency change it's good to wait a second or three before hitting the switch, just in case something comes up or we realize we issued the wrong frequency or whatever. But aside from that, it's an ATC instruction and compliance is expected immediately.

It's the same as when you're airborne and you get a frequency change to the next sector. You're expected to change right away even though you won't be in that new sector's airspace for several more miles.

There are exceptions, but for the most part (and especially at busier airports) we don't want you stopping anywhere in the same ZIP code as the runway exit point. We need to keep those areas clear for the next aircraft to turn off. The sooner you're on Ground's frequency the sooner they can get you going somewhere that isn't the runway exit.

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andrewrbat@reddit

Aviate navigate communicate. So dont be trying to talk to ground on your landing roll. Exit the runway as tower instructs (if they do). They will almost always either issue taxi instructions and say “remain this frequency” or ask you to contact ground but if not, you can always check

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SomeCessnaDriver@reddit

https://www.faraim.org/faa/aim/chapter-4/section-4-3-21.html

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JT-Av8or@reddit

Exit and stay with tower until directed. Don’t auto switch.

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tacosenjoyer@reddit

Correct procedure is for a tower controller to hand you over to ground. However, in some class D airports they have their own unwritten rules and they expect you to switch to ground on your own; that’s usually busy airports with a lot of student traffic and/or a contract tower.

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pilotatgoogle@reddit

My flying club is at a Class C airport. I never change frequencies until told by the active controller I’m on with for landing. 75% of the time they have me hang on tower after landing until I park

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randombrain@reddit

Don't switch to Ground until prompted, at least not on the runway.

Study/brief the airport diagram, both before you take off and (ideally) when you're airborne and have your landing runway assignment. You don't need to have it memorized but you should be able to take a "Turn right at Tango, contact Ground" instruction without fumbling. Once you get off the runway things are more forgiving, but you should know your likely runway exits for sure.

The instruction will sound like "Turn right Tango, contact Ground." Or "Turn right Tango, remain this frequency." We expect you to know the Ground frequency unless there are multiple frequencies published, so we aren't required to give it to you (although you can still ask for it if you need it).

When you exit the runway you'll see a big yellow-and-black hold short line. That line is for aircraft going the other way (entering the runway). DO NOT STOP IN FRONT OF THAT LINE. Go all the way across it and then stop. You wouldn't think this is something I have to clarify, but it is.

Contact Ground as soon as possible; if you need to come to a stop after exiting then that's what it is, but we'd prefer you to keep moving and wait to do your post-landing checklists once you get to the ramp.

Note that everything I've said also applies to a Class D airport. There really isn't any difference between a Class D and a Class C here, or even a Class B. The only thing that makes a difference is the level of traffic at the airport. There are Delta airports that have a higher raw traffic count than some Bravos...

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UpdateDesk1112@reddit

What did your CFI say when you asked him?

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jimbob_isme@reddit

Tower may ask where you are parking and then direct you to turn L/R at a specific taxiway not necessarily the first available. If they don’t then it’s expected for you to vacate at the first available and reasonable taxiway. Switch to ground when directed. If it’s late the tower may also be controlling ground and not want you switch frequency.

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Firefighter_RN@reddit

"Taxi via A4, A with me"

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

When landing in a Class C, should I clear the runway at the first available taxiway in direction I am going then contact ground? Or contact them on the runway? And how will that transmission sound?

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