Flight school and work
Posted by VladTepidJerkula@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 36 comments
Hello all, I'm a 36.5 male. I wanted to be a pilot since I was a kid but was told my color blindness would disqualify me. I've since learned that that is not necessarily true, even if I fail the color vision tests. I failed the Waggoner, I passed the Farnsworth DD-215 but apparently that one isn't accepted anymore, and I'm in the process of figuring out getting a Rabin cone test done. As much as I want to be a professional pilot, the cost of flight school and the potential for washing out due to that concerns me and makes me wonder if it's worth it at this point. I'm not keen on taking out 100K in loans to pay for it. I'm fine taking my time so the part 61 is fine with me. For those who did the part 61, were you able to hold a full time job at the same time? How did you pay for it? Did you have to pay for each certification up front or as you went? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.
johnisom@reddit
Provided you have a shred of work ethic, it's extremely doable to hold a full-time job as you fly early mornings/evenings/weekends. The time won't be the limiting finances, it'll be paying for it.
I'm able to put aside $4k of my salary per month to flight train part time - I still have so many free evenings and weekends. If I had more cash flow to throw at it, then time and exhaustion could start playing a role.
I have a take-home salary of ~$8k per month. I allow myself to spend $4k-$5k of that each month. Yes, I pay as I go, only billed per-hour. I found a small mom & pop school, part 61, which very flexible, semi-independent instructors with a good rental rate.
VladTepidJerkula@reddit (OP)
I definitely don't have 4K a month to throw at flight school. Studying in the evenings if fine by me though as is flying nights and weekends. I just didn't know how it's structured. I'd assumed there were classes for ground school in conjunction with air time that wouldn't be particularly flexible to manage a full time job with.
kristephe@reddit
You'll find various instructors with different times and availability, and you just want to find one that's in alignment with when you can fly. I am pretty part time and try to just teach 4 days a week and pretty rarely weekends, and I'm fine with that losing me flying and clients, but many CFIs teach heavily on the weekends and can accommodate various schedules.
Many people do an online ground school in conjunction with their one on one ground time with an instructor during their flight training that is more tailored to your specific syllabus or lessons but there's a lot of self study that can be study.
johnisom@reddit
Usually ground school is 1:1 with your instructor, or self-study
TxAggieMike@reddit
Your instructor provides guidance for ground studies and flight lesson preparation.
Often in the form of a syllabus tied to the books and videos you will use.
This syllabus outlines what pages to read and what videos to watch.
ltcterry@reddit
It’s easy to fly twice a week alongside a typical full time job.
If you had gotten a medical a bit over a year ago you would have been grandfathered on color vision.
You can’t wash out for color vision. You just get a no night flight restriction.
Don’t start flying until you’ve saved $18-20k to pay for it.
VladTepidJerkula@reddit (OP)
Yeah, if only I'd found out a few years sooner that it wasn't all over for me because of my color vision, I'd be golden. I got my 3rd class medical, the doctor told me I'd have had 1st if not for the color vision. Flying twice a week wouldn't be a problem, but what about ground school?
ltcterry@reddit
Ground school is your choice of several online video courses. In all of them you get out of it what you put in. While watching you should be underlining, highlighting, and cross referencing the actual FAA references.
johnisom@reddit
Common online ground schools that are good are King's, Sporty's, Gold Seal off the top of my head. You pay like $200 or something for the content and it includes like 40 video lessons, quizes, study materials, test prep. And the books of truth on the matter (FAR, AIM, PHAK, AFH, etc) are published free by the FAA.
ltcterry@reddit
The problem with free PDFs from the FAA is you can’t underline, highlight, or take notes easily. Likewise tabbing is difficult.
Well marked up paper pubs sitting beside you at the checkride are a priceless tool.
Buying a few books on Amazon is an insignificant expense compared to failing even one test.
johnisom@reddit
I 100% agree, and I actually do the same. I've bought all the paper copies of those books I've studied.
stickJ0ckey@reddit
My advice is to try getting a class 1 medical certificate before spending a single cent on any kind of training.
VladTepidJerkula@reddit (OP)
Almost got it. Doctor told me I'd have been class 1 if not for my color vision deficiency.
stickJ0ckey@reddit
😞
Worldx22@reddit
That makes it far from almost. Very far.
TxAggieMike@reddit
Please read the following thought provoking blog posts from RaiseTheDed:
Paying for Flight Training With Loans/Debt - Don’t!
Flight Training at ATP.
PLIKITYPLAK@reddit
You're right, cost is a huge barrier to entry and there are no guarantees. That is a risk assessment only you can make. The market is way oversaturated right now with entry level pilots.
The beauty with Part 61 is that you can go at your own pace and schedule flight lessons around your schedule. However be careful, flight knowledge is quickly perishable and if you wait too long between lessons you will stall out. The sweet spot is 2 - 3 lessons a week. If you only do 2-3 lessons per month you are lighting your money on fire.
btw, I stopped saying my age by half-years after I turned 6.
VladTepidJerkula@reddit (OP)
The 0.5 was half joke, half I don't fully know how relevant it is to the prospect of switching careers when I'll be post 40 and there's a hard retirement age for pilots. Thanks though.
PLIKITYPLAK@reddit
A lot of people older then you get into aviation as second careers. However unlike 10 years ago I would be hard pressed to recommend it to somebody right now based on the entry level hiring markets. I would only recommend it if they wouldn't have to take out a loan and didn't have a family to support.
VladTepidJerkula@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I understand the market isn't that favorable right now. Currently I don't really have a family to support and want to avoid loans. I'm not super stuck on flying passenger aircraft, I'd take flying cargo or whatever else there is.
PLIKITYPLAK@reddit
Then the only one taking a risk is yourself which frees you up. Doesn't matter what you want to fly, the market is the same. It's not like it is a lot easier to get into cargo then it is passenger. A lot of us end up at where the hiring market sends us, a lot of times not our first choice.
VladTepidJerkula@reddit (OP)
Actually, what is the typical hiring process for pilots, if you don't mind? I know ATP has relationships with airlines. But otherwise is it typically done through networking or job searches?
PLIKITYPLAK@reddit
Submit applications just like any other job. When you get to the airlines most have online portals in which you submit applications. For entry level jobs like CFI work you usually have to call around and submit a resume.
VladTepidJerkula@reddit (OP)
Oh yeah I understand that
172drivr@reddit
Pay as you go, try to fly at least 2x a week.
It's good you are 36.5 and not 36 or 37 - that makes a big difference.
VladTepidJerkula@reddit (OP)
I thought it was important. Half a year closer to 40 baby. I'm mostly wondering how the pay as I go works. Like if it's generally per lesson or if you pay the cost of the training for the license up front.
172drivr@reddit
Generally per lesson, because its unknown how long your license will take. Some take 40 hours for PPL, some take 120 hours. (I was around 90).
VladTepidJerkula@reddit (OP)
Good to know, thank you!
Muted-Rhubarb2143@reddit
Do you think you'll wash out due to the colorblindness? I promise you won't. Before they computerized the tests cheating was rampant and there are truly thousands of obviously colorblind pilots flying around safely today. It's clearly surmountable or else there wouldn't be so much of them.
As for paying for it get to work, save the money, then go full bore all out. You're in your mid thirties so I assume you can do something for a decent wage, just knuckle down and save a good $50-60k head start then work part-time while you get your ratings.
VladTepidJerkula@reddit (OP)
I'm not worried about the color blindness washing me out, I just don't know what the standard cost/payment structure is. Like if I need to pay all at once per certification(PPL, instrument rating, etc.) or if it's per lesson or however it works.
Muted-Rhubarb2143@reddit
You pay as you go.
BluProfessor@reddit
I have no aspirations of flying full time professionally, it's purely a labor of passion and a side hustle for me, but I did my training Part 61 through a flying club.
I worked full time in my current career trajectory all through flight training. I'm a full time professor. I took out no loans, paid everything in cash. I paid nothing up front, just paid as I went.
If you are fine taking your time, I'd skip going to a flight school and see if there's a good flying club nearby with an independent CFI taking on new students. It is generally much cheaper, but a bit of a slower path.
VladTepidJerkula@reddit (OP)
Thank you! The closest aviation club to me is also a flight school, I'm going to schedule a discovery flight soon and discuss it more with them then, I'm just trying to get an idea what to expect.
chinky47@reddit
Fly in the evenings after or the mornings before work. Talk to your CFI and tell them you want to schedule as far out as you can. Try to fly as much as you can. When you go home chair fly and study everything you went over last lesson and everything you’ll go over next lesson. Saving up first while getting medical figured out would be the best move so that you don’t suddenly stop because of finances. Any break you take from flying will cost you a lot of money.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Hello all, I'm a 36.5 male. I wanted to be a pilot since I was a kid but was told my color blindness would disqualify me. I've since learned that that is not necessarily true, even if I fail the color vision tests. I failed the Waggoner, I passed the Farnsworth DD-215 but apparently that one isn't accepted anymore, and I'm in the process of figuring out getting a Rabin cone test done. As much as I want to be a professional pilot, the cost of flight school and the potential for washing out due to that concerns me and makes me wonder if it's worth it at this point. I'm not keen on taking out 100K in loans to pay for it. I'm fine taking my time so the part 61 is fine with me. For those who did the part 61, were you able to hold a full time job at the same time? How did you pay for it? Did you have to pay for each certification up front or as you went? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi, I'm a bot and it looks like you're asking a question about medical issues: color blind.
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We strongly suggest you discuss your concerns with a qualified aviation medical examiner before you actually submit to an official examination, as a hiccup in your medical process can close doors for you in the future. Your local AME may be able to provide a consultation. Other places that may provide aeromedical advice include: AOPA, EAA, the Mayo Clinic, and Aviation Medicine Advisory Service.
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