Cousin is very violent and abuses his family, what can be done?

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DameKumquat@reddit

Calling 999 and the CAMHS crisis line, frequently. And the kid's school safeguarding team, every time there is an incident.

Only the squeaky wheels get any grease, I'm afraid.

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Police don’t care. They say because he’s a minor they can’t do anything. And then camhs say they don’t deal with children like him. Because he isn’t diagnosed with anything such as depression, or autism/adhd. It’s ridiculous. It’s obvious he needs help and is hurting others. And because of their neglect people are getting hurts. Thanks though. I’ll tell her to keep calling them and maybe someone will actually help

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YBZ@reddit

Clinical psychologist here, have worked in camhs - this is bullshit. This is a possible safeguarding concern and needs to be taken seriously. I think the first step is pressing social work to be involved.

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StarSpotter74@reddit

I remember your other post and I keep thinking about it actually.

Get it all written down (in emails preferably) that they can't/won't help. Get in touch with the council safeguarding team, MPs etc. Go public on FB if they need to "X Police Force and this council safeguarding team are not doing enough".

He is above the age of criminal responsibility - why are they saying they can't do anything?

I'm sorry this is still ongoing

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External-Praline-451@reddit

The age of criminal responsibility is 10 years old in England and Wales, and 12 in Scotland. The police are lying that they can't do anything. He should be charged with assault if he is beating people up. It shouldn't be dismissed if it's domestic violence.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

I’m worried that she’s not even calling the police. She says she is and she has got paperwork in which the abuse is being documented. But I fear that it was a one time call and maybe he guilt tripped her into keeping quiet. He often does that. Like when he was younger and he didn’t get his own way he’d threaten to say people who are caring for him are child abusers. Like if I took him out into town and I didn’t buy him something. Or if his mum wouldn’t get him a new tablet after he smashed his old one up.

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MissCaldonia@reddit

So then it’s not the case that the police aren’t doing anything if they don’t even know what’s happening? It needs to be reported every single time as a domestic and go from there.

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CoconutCaptain@reddit

You’re saying the police don’t care but the parents of the child are clearly not reporting this. What do you expect to happen? Children can’t just be taken from their parents because their cousin suggests it.

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External-Praline-451@reddit

He sounds like a nightmare, it must be so hard and frustrating. Hopefully the safeguarding team will help if you contact them, they are multidisciplinary teams that link up with the police, etc. You can talk to them about whether ir would be helpful to call the police yourself. Try and get evidence of any injuries, like photos etc.

Emphasise you are extremely concerned about the safety of the other children and Mum, and concerned it could escalate to him seriously harming or killing one of them.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

I have evidence. I have messages of him making threats to the majority of the family. Pictures of the bruises on his siblings and mums bodies. I’m going to get some cameras for the house too. Hopefully that’ll scare him away from hurting anyone. But if not then it’s undeniable proof

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Okimiyage@reddit

You need to report this on their behalf. You can do it online. Police will likely contact you and also conduct a welfare check.

Ultimately if mum then decides to not engage with police they may close it, but if you have evidence of threats or admission from mum confirming what is happening that may help, as police will create a safeguarding report anyway due to age and send that to social services.

Police will likely not intervene criminally without victim consent (it’s super rare and not likely in this specific situation) however they will absolutely create a report to go over to social services as it is required by policy for anyone under 18, or anyone with safeguarding concerns.

So go online and write up everything into an official report, upload the evidence you have, and ask police to contact you back.

If they decide to do nothing and not even go and check on mum personally, demand it in writing and keep reporting every time you hear something happen.

You can also contact social services yourself via their website for your area.

It sucks, but if you’re that worried then this is what you have to do.

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Frosty_Leg4438@reddit

You are able to call the police on someone else’s behalf if you think there’s a safeguarding risk due to abuse.

It sounds like this person (14 is above the age of responsibility) is abusing his mum through coercion.

I would consider ringing the police yourself.

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HawkTenRose@reddit

Have to be sixteen to count as domestic abuse. He is not yet sixteen. Before that, it’s disturbance (verbal), or if there are injuries, assault, ABH or GBH (section 18 or 20 depending on the intent).

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MotherofTinyPlants@reddit

The police can arrest 14 year olds for assaulting their parents and as it’s classified as Domestic Violence the victim can ask the police to apply for a DAPO to prevent the minor from returning to the family home for a designated time.

Teen would have to stay with a suitably responsible relative or social services would have to step in.

Child to Parent Domestic Violence doesn’t get the same amount of media attention as IVP (Intimate Partner Violence) but according to the published stats on DV death, a not insignificant percentage of women killed by men is sons killing their mothers.

By the age of 14 boys are often bigger and stronger than their mothers so it’s incredibly important that police take DV cases with adolescent perpetrators as seriously as those with adult perpetrators.

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slimyslag@reddit

Do you know where he and his siblings go to school? Particularly his siblings. You need to call their school(s) and speak to the safeguarding team. Tell them you are worried for the kids' safety and why. They will contact the right people and get the ball rolling. They are mandated reporters, so if you report a concern for the safety of one of their pupils (in or out of school) they must take appropriate action.

This is exactly the kind of situation they are there for. It won't be the first nor will it be the last time they hear of a situation like this, so please don't feel you're burdening them or wasting their time.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

The school already knows and all they do is call home once a week to make sure that everything is okay. They recommended he be moved schools as he got in with a bad crowd and began to bully people. But he barely even goes into school these days. And that’s getting my sister into trouble as she’s responsible for him. But she can’t force him to go to school.

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slimyslag@reddit

They're not fulfilling their responsibility then. Are you sure they know the full extent of the situation? If you haven't reported it yourself I would be suspicious that the school don't actually know the full picture. I've worked in a school that had a pretty appalling safeguarding team and even they would have been working with social services and police for a child living in a house where they are at risk of physical violence. That is their job. They could face serious legal repercussions if they were found to be neglecting this.

If you're certain they do know exactly what's going on and are not doing anything then that in itself needs to be reported to Ofsted and local authority. They are failing their duty.

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Tea_confused@reddit

The police can arrest him. I have a physically violent autistic 13 year old (he’s almost 6ft, big built, it’s terrifying), he was having a loud meltdown once and the neighbours called the police because they were worried. They attended and assured me that he absolutely can be arrested.

Cahms won’t see my son either, it’s deeply frustrating. But I have a social worker (called a Family Support Worker, but is busy social services at the end of the day), that comes around and she has been a massive help, so definitely do try and get social services to help your cousin. They’re not there to punish and take kids away, they are there to help.

Just keep asking, every single time there’s an incident. Log everything, set up a camera if possible. Get your cousin to go to the GP, so it’s all on record, and also for her own mental health. Like someone else said too, raise it with the school, tell them your concerns. Just keep shouting about it to everyone and they will listen eventually. It is upsetting and frustrating, but unfortunately they’re so swamped with cases like this, and understaffed. It shouldn’t be this way, but it is what it is.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

I think if he was arrested even once then he would see that what he is doing is wrong. But because that doesn’t happen he doesn’t realise that his behaviour is bad.

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cuppachar@reddit

From everything else you've said this sounds delusional.

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TheBrassDancer@reddit

The police are absolutely wrong on this. The criminal age of responsibility is 10 (12 in Scotland).

Call them every single time there is an incident.

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DameKumquat@reddit

And social services, emphasising the risks to other children/adults in the household. Good luck.

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External-Pen9079@reddit

Unfortunately the one time I experienced this (young teen beating parent daily) no amount of calls to the police, social services, etc seemed to work… what finally did was when the parent lost it and struck back. Once.

Then SS came out immediately and removed child…

Safety of a child is always paramount… in your situation I would recommend continuing to report everything but specifically stating that they hurt a child (sibling) assuming they ever also lash out at them (or even that they have to witness it).

Your emphasis should be on how to keep the children safe (including the kid whose lashing out)

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MickeyMatters81@reddit

Absolutely. Don't know the system well, but there are usual key words/terms that make people pull their finger out in these situations.

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RafRafRafRaf@reddit

She can’t literally kick him out without getting into serious trouble, but there are absolutely systems that are meant to look after young people like him. She may need to ask for him to be voluntarily accommodated by social services (‘voluntarily’ in this context means that it’s not social services overriding his parent’s wishes) as he can’t live safely in the family home.

She is likely to need to push HARD on the topic of safety - her own and that of any other children or adults in the household.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

What trouble would she get into? Because I feel like it’s better than be beaten almost every day. Her safety and her other children’s safety is at risk everyday. And I feel like it’s getting worse as each day passes.

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pyotia@reddit

She still has parental responsibility for him so she could be done for neglect if she refused to home him. However, if she isn't getting support from anyone then she may need to threaten a section 20

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Anes33@reddit

There’s absolutely no chance of her getting into trouble for neglect. He’s attacking her ave placing siblings at risk. Agree She will need to threaten section 20 for social services to step in though.

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pyotia@reddit

She absolutely runs the risk of that happening if she just turfed him out. If he approached the council as homeless, which almost inevitably would happen either independently or through another avenue such as school etc. then the council would be calling social services and encouraging her to take him back in else she would get in trouble for neglect. She needs to do it properly, not just kick him out.

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Anes33@reddit

There are very very unlikely to do her for neglect because of the other kids in the property. If she’s looking after them relatively well then social services will prioritise maintaining that. Unfortunately they will try their best to keep the violent son in her care if they can without much effective help hence why she needs to kick and scream. Police won’t do anything because they don’t like criminalising minors. Cahms have long way lists and he doesn’t even have a diagnosis. Social services will only really help if it’s a crisis. Hence why she needs to contact them whilst he’s out and say she’s not having him back.

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RafRafRafRaf@reddit

I think literally locking a kid of 14 out (even a violent one who I totally agree can’t safely live at home with current behaviour patterns) really might put the parent at risk of some legal trouble even though they may feel they had no choice.

Section 20 (of the Children Act 1989) is a voluntary agreement for the local authority to house a child who can’t live with their parents. It is critically a statutory duty - they can’t just go ‘nah we aren’t doing it’.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

Yeah she doesn’t deserve that at all. She’s been a good mum. She’s fed, clothed and housed him for all these years. Done it all mostly on her own. Dad’s a deadbeat who’s been out of most of his life. Barely gives her any money for him. She gets him expensive things like trending shoes, coats, Xbox, phone, etc. And he’s never grateful. I don’t understand how he’s gotten like this. Especially with how nasty he is. That’s why we want to get him help but people we ask don’t care at all. May I ask how a section 20 could help and the purpose of it? I’m looking into every option for her. Thanks

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PabloMarmite@reddit

S20 is a voluntary agreement that the local authority rehouses a child. Does the family have a social worker? The mum needs to keep telling the social worker to do this. She can also keep calling up through the social care hierarchy, emphasising her and the rest of the family’s safety.

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Anes33@reddit

If he goes to school, she can literally call social services, school refuse to have him back in the home. They will accommodate him somewhere as an emergency

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Kaiisim@reddit

Are they being honest about the level of violence? Or are they holding back so he doesn't get into too much trouble?

If they are, then escalate. Everytime someone says "oh we can't help" ask their name, position and reasoning - and then tell them you need it for the inevitable inquiry when he murders someone.

Ask for emails and letters to create a paper trail - make it clear you're getting evidence of them not doing anything.

You can also escalate to your local MP. MPs are good at writing to organisations and putting the fear of god into them.

It's a really shitty situation, no one wants to be the one to deal with it

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

I don’t know whether they are holding back. I hope not. But I know she cares about him a lot. But I’ve told her she needs to think about her and her other children’s safety. She’s exhausted now and really bad with her mental health due to the toll this has taken on her.

I didn’t consider the MP option. I’ll definitely look into this. Thank you.

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MickeyMatters81@reddit

MPs letters of escellation are the bane of local authority workers everywhere. A letter to the boss will drag 10 people into 3 days of work to evidence everything that's happened. It really does put the fear of God into the higher ups.

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ejmci@reddit

Could she speak to her local domestic abuse charity? Many of them deal with child to parent abuse

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Sea_Director_4439@reddit

Can you take matters into your own hands?

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TheBrassDancer@reddit

Be persistent in getting the police involved. What he is doing is assault, and he is above the criminal age of responsibility. Call the police each and every time he is violent or threatens violence.

PEGS is also a resource or anyone experiencing child-on-parent violence. https://www.pegsupport.co.uk/

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TedBurns-3@reddit

"I’ve told her to just take his keys off him and kick him out"

Stopped reading when I got to this- what an utterly ridiculous comment to make about your own FOURTEEN year old family member!

No wonder he's like he is with loving family like you

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Weird_Georgiana@reddit

There is an organisation who may be able to help and give advice. There's a Facebook group called PEGs. It's specifically for parents with abusive children.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

Thank you. I didn’t know about this group. Hopefully we will get some advice on here. Or at least know that there are others experiencing these things

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MarilynMorose@reddit

It’s true, scare it out of him with a little pegging

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Weird_Georgiana@reddit

It's more than a support group as well. Good luck

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super_starmie@reddit

Remind them of the boy who killed those girls at the Taylor Swift dance class.

All the authorities said he wasn't their problem, either.

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FornyHucker22@reddit

just spam the police and don’t take no for an answer. lazy fucks will try to avoid dealing with it but just be persistent and call over and over and over until they act

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SavageRabbitX@reddit

Sounds like that boy needs some serious discipline

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winebookscats@reddit

How would you suggest doing that? Genuine question. A 14 year old teen boy is probably taller and stronger than his parent, and this one doesn't seem at all afraid of physically harming the parent and kids in the household.

How would you discipline him? Physically? Not possible. By grounding him? How? By taking away internet or phone etc? So he smashes the house and attacks people until he gets his stuff back?

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SavageRabbitX@reddit

If hes man enough to throw punches at his mum hes man enough to get his ass beaten with a switch

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Icy_Place_5785@reddit

“Switch”?

Do I smell a Yank?

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SavageRabbitX@reddit

Nah Derry born and bred m8, I did live there for a while tho so I do americanisms on occasion

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Icy_Place_5785@reddit

I only learned in from WWF War Zone haha

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BeesInATeacup@reddit

Thats assault of a child, not discipline.

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SavageRabbitX@reddit

Man enough to throw punches at his mum. Man enough to take the consequences

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BeesInATeacup@reddit

Still assault of a child. Still not discipline.

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KEW95@reddit

Discipline? Abuse is an emotional thing. Boundaries, therapy and proactive professional support are necessary.

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No_Mood1492@reddit

Has the mum contacted the GP about making a referral to CAMHS so he can get a diagnosis?

My brother used to be like this with my mum, and honestly the only thing that helped was having someone else in the house to stick up for her.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

Camhs have told her that they won’t see him. Because they don’t deal with issues like his.

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Embarrassed_Park2212@reddit

I'm sure this, or something similar was posted before.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

What do you mean by this? I mentioned I posted this before already. But things have gotten worse since then.

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KEW95@reddit

You can’t kick a 14-year-old child out. They absolutely need protection from the abuse, but kicking a child out is also abusive. They need to repeatedly call 999, the CAMHS crisis line, contact social services, etc. Google resources and keep contacting them.

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Waxedjacketproblem@reddit

The Police need to be called every time there is an incident which amounts to a criminal offence (e.g assault or criminal damage). Make sure a crime reference number is given and that the severity of the incident/s is not downplayed by the caller.

Each local authority has a referral system for child social services. Often called the Multi Agency Safeguarding Hub (MASH) or something similar. Make reports through this system and again, ensure the severity of incidents is accurately documented. Include details of witnesses and police reference numbers.

At the most extreme level, a local authority can be advised that the child is beyond parental control and that the parent/s will be relinquishing responsibility. This is a tool of last resort though.

Remember, anyone can make reports to the Police and Social Services, not just the victim or parents. If his Mum is reluctant to or unable to act, you or another family member can and should make reports on her behalf.

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