Broadcom Targets Mass-Market Broadband With 10G PON and Wi-Fi 8 SoCs
Posted by sr_local@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 33 comments
Posted by sr_local@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 33 comments
Nvidiuh@reddit
If Wi-Fi 7 is anything to go by then this will probably be more like Wi-Fi 7 and a half.
LAwLzaWU1A@reddit
Please stop with the hyperbole. Wi-Fi 7 is fantastic and has a ton of great features over Wi-Fi 6(E). I apprechiate that RTing did the article about MLO but I honestly think it has done more damage than good because people now seem to think Wi-Fi 7 is just about MLO.
MLO has multiple parts to it, and EMLSR is a required feature of Wi-Fi 7. All Wi-Fi 7 devices on the market support EMLSR.
What EMLSR does is let your device be connected to multiple channels (like 5GHz and 6GHz) at once. It greatly improves reliability, which I think is something people will enjoy even if it doesn't increase throughput.
What a lot of devices and consumer routers are lacking is the optional STR part of MLO which allows the device to send and transmit data on both channels it's connected to at the same time. I personally don't think increasing throughput is all that important since the bottleneck these days is usually somewhere else, like unreliable connections (because of interference) or a bottleneck in the upstream connection (like the connection to the ISP).
So I think EMLSR is the actually important aspect of MLO, and it is a required feature. Other than MLO, Wi-Fi 7 also introduces preamble puncturing, which is another mandatory feature that is really good. With Wi-Fi before 7, if you got let's say a 80Mhz wide channel and something generates a lot of interference let's say 25MHz into the channel, you will drop down to 20Mhz of usable channel-width. With Wi-Fi 7 and preamble puncturing, the Wi-Fi can isolate the interference and keep perhaps 60MHz usable rather than the 20MHz. That in theory could triple your throughput in that scenario.
Another mandatory feature is Multiple Resource Unit (MRU). With Wi-Fi 6, the biggest improvement was OFDMA. It let's multiple devices transmit or receive data from an access point at the same time by dividing the Wi-Fi channel into several sub-carriers (called resource units). With Wi-Fi 6 and 6E, each client could only use one resource unit at once. With Wi-Fi 7, each device can use multiple which allows for better utilization of the channel (and thus higher throughput when multiple devices are connected). Another fantastic feature in Wi-Fi 7 that will really help in some scenarios.
Wi-Fi 7 also requires stricter security than Wi-Fi 6E. 6E already made WPA3 mandatory for 6GHz, but with Wi-Fi 7 made it mandatory for 2,4GHz and 5GHz as well (and also makes Hash-to-Element mandatory), and they have introduced new ciphers for OWE and SAE (GCMP 256 to be more precise) and we are also getting new, more secure Authentication and Key Management suites (AKM).
Two of the optional features that I am not sure are widespread is also 4K-QAM, a much more granular modulation which allows for higher data rates. Not sure how usable that will be though because you need really high SNR to do that granular of a modulation. It also introduces 320MHz channel width in the 6GHz spectrum. Probably not that usable in most places, but if you live in an area with few neighbors close by then you could in theory make this extremely wide channel and get a ton of throughput.
I think there is absolutely a case to be made that manufacturers should have been more clear about the capabilities of their Wi-Fi 7 equipment, but it really pains me to see so many people now go "Wi-Fi 7 is bad because most devices don't do STR" (or call non-STR devices "not true Wi-Fi 7") when there are a lot of great stuff in Wi-Fi 7 that are now being completely ignored or forgotten about because all the focus is on STR. I think part of the issue is that STR is really easy to market, so a lot of focus has been placed on that. It is easier to explain "it can connect to 5GHz and 6GHz at once" than to explain more granular modulation, or preamble puncturing, or using multiple resource units at once, or compressed block Acks.
Nvidiuh@reddit
Thank you for doing all that research for me.
AssCrackBanditHunter@reddit
Not reading all that, most people are fine on wifi 5 with wifi 6 being good for homes with smart bulbs and devices. Wifi 7 is a joke no one needs at the consumer level.
GHz-Man@reddit
6GHz is useful like in an apartment building if you have a lot of neighbors, less interference.
You also get faster speeds when farther away from the AP.
Some people (not many) do have 1Gbps+ internet speeds at home.
Loose_Skill6641@reddit
less interference until your neighbours buy wifi 7 routers then you screwed again
GHz-Man@reddit
There's way more 6GHz spectrum available, so the odds of interference is much lower.
Also since 6GHz doesn't reach very well through walls, less of a chance of your neighbors causing much interference.
reallynotnick@reddit
Shame they allow for 320Mhz channels now.
GHz-Man@reddit
Why? That's the only way to hit faster speeds.
With 160MHz it's the exact same speed as Wi-Fi 6E.
reallynotnick@reddit
Because you are now down to 3 non-overlapping channels vs 7, so the odds of interference get greatly increased. I mean sure it beats the 2 channels of 160mhz at 5Ghz, but still in an apartment you probably have 4 units touching you with a 5th just across the hall. The shorter range of course is welcome, when I open my WiFi I see about 30 different routers in my apartment.
GHz-Man@reddit
I don't know if routers enable 320MHz by default. That would be up to the manufacturer.
Most people don't need it, unless your internet speed is above 2Gbps, so I'd be surprised if it was enabled by default.
Especially since Apple products and some Android and Windows devices are also capped at 160MHz.
capybooya@reddit
Wifi6 and Wifi7 even more so is designed to work more efficiently in crowded environments. The spectrum is going to be crowded regardless, we'll just have to deal with it better.
LAwLzaWU1A@reddit
6GHz Wi-Fi is really useful if your clients supports it.
The amount of spectrum we have, and thus how many neighbor routers you can be within range of without interference, is way higher.
If you are worried about your neighbors interfering with your Wi-Fi then it would actually benefit you buying them and yourself Wi-Fi 7 router. It will result in less interference as more people move to the new standard.
Not sure why people are so negative. Especially about something they haven't looked into.
reallynotnick@reddit
I’ll admit I’m out of my depth, but I agree WiFi 7 is great. From what I’ve seen though 8 seems to be very much focused on high density environments, so for home use people might not see a huge benefit in upgrading but for businesses and public places it should be a good improvement (maybe crowded apartments too?)
GHz-Man@reddit
Pretty much. It's focused on seamless handoff and roaming between access points, and interference in dense areas.
Unless you have a large house with multiple APs, those features would only be used in large enterprise installs like public Wi-Fi in a university or hotel or airport.
AssCrackBanditHunter@reddit
My home has 3 access points, wifi 6, and handles hand off just fine (most devices you own are not going to be moving and therefore don't even need handoff. It's just gonna be phones and laptops. The benefits of wifi 7 are super overstated and only important for business and enterprise.
GHz-Man@reddit
Handoff currently isn't seamless, there's usually a slight drop like if you're on an audio or video call and walking between APs.
Wi-Fi 8 will let your device connect to both APs simultaneously so the handoff is truly seamless.
Probably won't be needed in most homes, but will be useful like if you're walking around a hotel or airport on a FaceTime call or something.
I usually just turn my Wi-Fi off entirely when I'm at an airport walking around because the handoff between APs is so slow.
Flynn58@reddit
Wi-Fi 7 definitely merits itself, I just haven't updated my access points in my home because I don't have any clients that use it yet lol. Maybe when I get a phone with Wi-Fi 7 I'll justify it to myself.
GHz-Man@reddit
A lot of devices don't even support 320MHz channels.
Apple devices, and some Android phones like the Google Pixels, and some Windows laptops only support 160MHz channels (the same as Wi-Fi 6E) so speeds are capped at 2.4Gbps.
Not an issue for most people, but still odd when plenty of devices do support the full 320MHz.
twnznz@reddit
Thanks, but I'll be over here on MediaTek who support Linux mainline (rather than via some bullshit SDK).
MairusuPawa@reddit
Neat. Please have good Linux support.
309_Electronics@reddit
They do, but only for vendors (vendor routers alr run linux). They just dont feel like sharing which is sad!
AnEagleisnotme@reddit
A lot of routers run BSDs, so maybe not actually
309_Electronics@reddit
Welp my hwhacing experiences tell me otherwise. I did not come across any bad routers (maybe other than apple airport). Most of them ran linux so this aint really true
b_pop@reddit
Yeah, we love to hate on Nvidia but Broadcom's arseholery is another level
309_Electronics@reddit
Yeah its also why OpenWRT development for a lot of modern bcm routers is slow. So either they have to sign 1000 ndas or reverse engineer the drivers and socs (like the asahi project does on apple silicon) and then risk getting sued or taken down.
reallynotnick@reddit
No 6Ghz support it seems, which seems like a bit of an odd market segment for such early adoption.
MMyRRedditAAccount@reddit
China hasn't delicensed 6ghz
spicesucker@reddit
“Wi-Fi 8” is the certified term but the standard isn’t projected to be finalized in May 2028, is this Broadcom trying to release early and strong-arm the standard to what they want?
ErektalTrauma@reddit
Wi-Fi 8 is very similar to 7, no bandwidth increases, just new features.
sr_local@reddit (OP)
These are only the chips based on the 2028 bn draft of the specifications that will arrive in Q2 2026, so the first routers/devices will arrive in Q1 2027. However every new IEEE standard is approved and confirmed after there are already dozens of chips with the same standard. Those changes are minimal via firmware.
jonathanwashere1@reddit
Could just be marketing
spicesucker@reddit
It’s the specific “Wi-Fi 8” I’m curious about as that would suggest certification. A lot of the early/current products for sale are “Wifi 7”