What is something in the UK that you have changed your viewpoint on recently?
Posted by Leeeeeroy-Jenkins@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 168 comments
For me it was how I view obesity, given the rise in number of people who are obese and a growing number of medical interventions.
For a long time I believed obesity was some kind of lack of self control or personal choice. This held even with my own weight struggles where I punished myself for overeating or failing to maintain a certain weight.
I am now viewing it as a disease, one that is created by our environment and where the “eat less, move more, weight loss is simple” advice simply doesn’t work unless it’s paired with medical interventions.
handtoglandwombat@reddit
The more I learn about glp1 drugs, the more I start to question if self control, will power, personal accountability are real things at all. I think some people have brain chemistry privilege.
riverend180@reddit
It's called discipline, and it's a learned skill. I actually think the complete opposite of you and OP - my experience of actually finally improving my diet and losing weight has lead me to believe that literally anybody can do it, and most obese people are entirely to blame for their own situation.
If you succumb to your hunger & cravings every time then it gets harder and harder to stop the next time. Likewise, once you start ignoring it and choosing the healthy option, that becomes easier over time.
I used to always get a big bag of sweets whenever I filled the car up with fuel on the way home from work. I would eat the whole bag then get home and have dinner, ashamed. Every time I knew I was going to the petrol station (maybe once a week), my stomach would rumble and I would feel insanely hungry. It's not real, it's just my body craving the crap it has come to expect at that moment.
Illustrious_Study_30@reddit
It's not bad to be hungry. We always know where the next meal is coming from, so we're not going to starve to death. Succumbing every single time is a sure fire way to build bad habits . I feel like people with food noise and poor habits, have developed routines and habits because of a poor, taught relationship with food.
dowhileuntil787@reddit
Self control and will power exist, but they're set by external forces like your genetics, how you were raised and your influences. You can't choose to violate your nature any more than you can choose to be a crab.
That doesn't mean we should chuck out personal accountability. Personal accountability and societal pressure are forces that affect your willpower and self control. They clearly aren't perfect tools, but they do work. It's part of why the Japanese have remained so trim and why people with fat friends tend to get fatter themselves.
However, when a better tool becomes available (GLP-1s, in this case), we should embrace it.
Conscious_Ring_9855@reddit
I think both can be true. While self control and will power are actually all it takes to lose weight, not be a jakey, etc some people have an inherent advantageous difference in their chemistry.
Traditional-Ice9940@reddit
Brain chemistry privilege
It proves 100% there is a privilege. I am on glp1 and lost so much weight previously would be in such a state of the pack of self control.
Now I see someone overweight and hope they start a glp1 to bring balance back to their life...who the fuck wants to walk around like a balloon all embarrassed and depressed...
TheNinjaPixie@reddit
But already there are stories filtering through of what happens when you stop the jabs, and weight is regained and more. Same as any other diet, unless fundamental changes are made, for ever, the weight will be regained.
SpaceCatSociety@reddit
I lost 30kg on them and haven’t gained it back a year later
TheNinjaPixie@reddit
thats amazing, hope your other issue also gets sorted
SpaceCatSociety@reddit
Sadly it’s cancer and I’m in for the long haul but thank you.
TheNinjaPixie@reddit
Sorry to hear <3
ununpentium89@reddit
GLP-1s fix metabolic problems, so of course when you stop taking them, things will reverse. It's the same as stopping any other life long medication like beta blockers, or insulin. Some people are 'lucky' and have been able to maintain weight loss so far, others are finding they gain weight when they stop taking GLP-1. Although it's the same with dieting. Take any diet, once you stop it, you gain weight. I have started mounjaro with the understanding I will need it life long if I want to keep the weight off.
TheNinjaPixie@reddit
in the uk its currently only funded for specific illnesses plus comorbidities so some people are self funding, but it's expensive, they cannot afford to take it for their whole lives. my point was that diets dont work in the long term, only permanently changing what you eat forever
TubbyLittleTeaWitch@reddit
Which is why you don't just stop them cold turkey. You're supposed to use them as an aid to help you get into better habits, not rely on them to do the work for you.
SpaceCatSociety@reddit
Walk around like a balloon? How nice. I don’t want to be like this but I can’t get on the glps. Even worse, I’m on meds (AIs for cancer) that make me ravenous, and even when I will be allowed to get on glps (after I finish chemotherapy in 7 months), they don’t seem to work for people who are on AIs.
handtoglandwombat@reddit
I think self control and will power are maybe 10%. Having someone else hold you accountable (parents/partner) is about 40% and the rest is genetics/ brain chemistry. I have a spaniel who is in perfect condition, impeccably fit, beautiful health, glossy coat. But I precisely control her portions and exercise. The only way I’d be able to get in shape is if I had someone else to do that for me.
SpaceCatSociety@reddit
And also vice versa. I keep trying to stay on top of eating healthy and then my partner comes home with chocolate and crisps and orders us pizza for dinner. It’s hard to say no. Then he’ll cook and plate up a 3 person serving of pasta. So even when the food is healthy it’s a lot. I try to resist but it’s so hard when not only do I not have support but I have active bloody sabotage
handtoglandwombat@reddit
Put him on a glp1. You’ll suddenly be asking yourself “where did all the food go??”
SpaceCatSociety@reddit
I’m the one who is obese, he isn’t
handtoglandwombat@reddit
It was an attempt at humour
pimpledsimpleton@reddit
the ezra klein podcast covered this in detail with an expert. it was interesting.
CongealedBeanKingdom@reddit
Mehh, I just love to deny myself things that I like. Depression is my secret weapon.
Flat_News_2000@reddit
Yeah I also enjoy punishing myself. Probably not healthy but it's kept me not fat.
blozzerg@reddit
What doesn’t make sense to me is how it even works.
Before I was on them, I could easily order a mixed grill in a chain pub and clear the plate, give it 20 minutes and then eat an ice cream sundae, then give it half an hour and have a bar of chocolate. I’d feel ‘full’ for a bit, but I always had room for more if more was available.
The above example wasn’t a regular thing by any means, but I could always clear my plate regardless of what the meal was, it shows you the sheer volume of food that can be consumed without ever reaching a point where I had to physically stop.
Since being on GLP1, if I ordered the mixed grill I’d have to leave the chips, maybe have one or two, and I’d probably leave maybe a sausage or a bit of the steak - I simply can’t physically eat that much food. It’s a feeling I don’t remember ever actually having before.
But nothing physical has changed, I haven’t shrunk my stomach. So that to me sounds like something in me is broken, or isn’t working properly. I know I do have hormonal imbalances and my weight gain was very slow, over 10 years it’s been increasing by less than a stone a year, but I’ve undone it all in less than 1 year on these jabs. It’s fucking weird.
LlamaDrama007@reddit
Through suppressing gherkins it prevents your stomach emptying as quickly as it normally would - the food literally sits there longer. The whole system slows leading to to constipation for many (especially if they focus on 'getting enough protein' and neglectful fibre/water) and so the natural hunger signals abate.
blozzerg@reddit
I know the general gist of how it works but experiencing it is another thing entirely. To feel like I would literally throw up if I even took another bite out of a chip is a surreal thing to experience when previously I could just keep going and going, it certainly feels like a physical difference is taking place. And I was never particularly regular before, 3-4 days between going to the toilet, so again it makes me question where tf all that food was going and why suddenly I feel like my insides have shrunk!
Flat_News_2000@reddit
3-4 days is a lot
decidedlyindecisive@reddit
People underestimate the endocrine systems involvement in weightloss. When mine was working, I had a decent understanding of food. Weight would go on and come off depending on the food I ate. After my hormones got all messed up, even going on medication hasn't fixed the weight/food balance. Weight goes on, but I seriously have to genuinely starve for it come off. Like 1200kcal per day, and I'm tall and active. It hurts and makes my hair fall out.
blozzerg@reddit
Oh I’ve definitely had periods of what I would also consider starvation on these jabs! Cheese sandwich for lunch, couple of chicken strips for my tea, zero snacks, easily consuming under 1000 calories per day at times, I just didn’t feel like eating or I’d be so busy I’d just forget to eat. I’m in a much better & balanced place now, upped my protein, lots of veggies, but the weight loss has drastically slowed.
Which is another thing that surprised me - how little I’m having to eat to get the weight to come off. I’m somewhat active and I generally ate what I’d consider normal portions before: for a couple of years I even did Hello Fresh, I’d have one portion of a recipe twice a day and I specifically chose the high protein under 700 calories meals with zero or only healthy snacks so for months I know I was eating 1400 max most days but I didn’t lose any weight.
hhfugrr3@reddit
I started taking a glp1 a few months ago. I'm on the lowest dose but it's incredible how little I want to snack now. Before I was barely aware of the food noise constantly going on in the background of my mind. Almost as soon as I started taking this stuff I suddenly realised that the food noise was gone - its absence really surprised me.
Economy-Awareness475@reddit
Brain chemistry privilege sounds like a crazy concept. There’s no doubt people are wired differently. I quite simply do not experience food noise/cravings whereas my partner really struggles with it. But when i was dangerously underweight, i wished my brain was wired to be able to “just eat”. But i’m in the same boat as you as the more I learn about this stuff, the less control i think people have over it.
Battle_Biscuits@reddit
I think this extends to other areas of life too. I think some people are naturally more driven to work hard on achieving their ambitions whereas others don't have that energy- even if the ambition is there the drive isn't.
As I've got older the more I think it's down to brain chemistry and wiring.
Lemon-Flower-744@reddit
It is degrading though when you're doing everything right, calories are down, working out almost everyday and the weight slightly moves. Whereas my husband can stop eating a few things and drop half a stone in 2 weeks.
I'm lucky if I loose half a stone in a month. I'm not even saying "I want quick results" it's more of a, I've clearly tracked all week, I've been drinking more water, hit my targets, and the scale has either sat where it is, gone up a lb or down half a lb. It's pretty demotivating. It's also annoying when you speak to a PT about it and they're like "it's just water weight." How much water weight am I holding here cause sod all has moved in a few weeks. It's also annoying when you explain this to people and their responses are "well you must be eating more then you thought" or "you're counting wrong" or "you're not moving enough."
PoolRamen@reddit
The less control people choose to have over it, especially in a permissive environment where everything is explained away as not tied to basic self-control. But at least now for this particular case we have the drugs so it can shut certain people up about it.
Liv_October@reddit
I'm in the same boat! If my brain was wired in a way that reminded me to eat my life would be so much easier.
Economy-Awareness475@reddit
Possibly. I do think it could be a case of “the grass is greener on the other side”. Even though I have times where I wish I had no problem eating, I don’t envy people on the other side who can’t stop. We’ve just gotta make the best of whatever situation we find ourselves in.
Lemon-Flower-744@reddit
I'm overweight but I don't get this "food noise" that people talk about. I've got a diagnosed eating disorder because it clearly came from my mother growing up. Constantly my parents would jab at my weight, I used to do a lot of sports when I was younger and would be like "I'm starving, I need a snack." And they would shame me for wanting a snack and look at the way I look, gross. So I ate in secret.
When I look at photos of me before, I was like damn, I wasn't even that fat. I was a size 12/14 wtf. My mum used to shout at me "nothing feels as good as skinny feels" ....
I met my husband and he never shamed me for eating foods or snacks so the weight just piled on, plus I'm at a desk most of my days. I used to go to the gym - body pump, body combat, swimming, walking 10k steps a day, I managed to shift 4.5 stone but still it's sitting quite high and I'm a size 18 now.
It's frustrating af. I noticed my husband had lost a bit of weight, I mentioned it to him and he said "yeah I just gave up cheese and move a bit more. Half a stone in 2 weeks down." WHAT THE FUCK.
Economy-Awareness475@reddit
I suffered a bereavement two years ago and as a result I didn’t eat for 3 days. When my appetite came back I was unable to be satiated. I could just eat and eat and I had never experienced this before. I understood what food noise was then. It went away after a couple of days and I went back to my norm of no food noise/cravings, but I understood then that even as someone who has very good impulse control and had very little interest in food, that this was not something that could easily be overcome by discipline.
People have different BMRs and hormones, which all play a big factor in losing weight easier than others. I think it’s best not to compare your situation to others as none of us are in the exact same situation, whether that’s chemically, socioeconomically, motivationally etc.
Jasboh@reddit
I was on glp1 for two months and it really made me question my own autonomy, there are really strong subconscious factors involved
Incident_Electron@reddit
I felt the exact same thing. Taking GLP-1's really brings home just how much of my behaviour and conscious thought are directed by processes going on "under the hood". The food noise thing is very real.
Aggravating_Speed665@reddit
What do you mean though? Can you explain in simple terms about the consciousness and the drug etc, I don't understand
Incident_Electron@reddit
So most directly the drug suppresses appetite, but one of the ways this manifests its a reduction in so-called "food noise" ie. thinking / ruminating about food. This is unconscious, outside your control, and you are only aware of it by noticing its absence.
Altruistic_Dare6085@reddit
I am possibly a bit confused here. Isn't "food noise" just hunger? Because of a medical condition I have I very rarely get mental or physical hunger signals and it is a fucking nightmare because unless I remind myself to go eat at set meal times the first "reminder" I get is symptoms of low blood sugar (shakes, dizziness, etc).
Brains automatically thinking about food is a good thing because it keeps us alive? I feel like the brain automating important life tasks isn't taking away autonomy because doing that frees up your time to do other stuff? Having to conciously remind yourself food exists and is important is a massive pain in the arse.
Obviously if someone's weight is negatively impacting their health, drugs that help them lose weight by suppressing all kinds of hunger are good if they help with that. But "food noise" isn't your brain taking away your free will, it's just trying not to die.
Theallseer97@reddit
No. Food noise for me is literally my every waking thought being turned towards food, even when I'm full, even when I'm actively eating. This isn't just planning a meal for later or the next day etc, this is a what can I eat next sort of thing. It's horrible to manage, like intrusive thoughts but not just mental, it's physical. Like I will physically feel like I must eat more food.
Many people have gone on GLP1s privately, I was put on them by my GP because no type 2 diabetic medication was helping lower my blood sugars which were sky high. The suppression of food noise made me feel like taking my first breath of air after drowning my entire life (I've been morbidly obses since I was 10 years old). I've lost 6 and a half stone, I'm healthier now and slimmer, than I was as a teenager (I'm 29).
People can say what they want about weight loss drugs but it's helped me change my life (I go hiking, I eat well, I look and feel great, I'm mentally and emotionally the best I've ever been).
ununpentium89@reddit
No, food noise isn't hunger. You can experience very strong food noise, and not feel hungry, or even feel incredibly full up. It's a constant internal obsession with what you want to eat that never switches off. For me, it lead to binge eating, even when I was already full up. Taking Mounjaro completely switches that off, it's like night and day. I still get physically hungry at meal times, but I don't care about food any more. It's not all I think about 24/7. I can stop eating the second my stomach has enough in it and not think about food until the next meal time.
Hefty-Egg3406@reddit
Currently in my luteal phase and all I wanna do is eat. My desire for food goes beyond feeling full. And I wanna eat biscuits and chocolate and ice cream right after a nice greasy burger.
The pill makes me feel like this all of the time and I am imagining food while someone is talking to me.
I couldn’t imagine how very rapidly obese I would be if I had to live with this as my own base level. I naturally have a cut off, desire for fresh veg and fruit and need for exercise. I’ve had a BMI of 18-20 my entire life.
Thomasinarina@reddit
Me too, I’m reading this comment as I munch my way through an entire bag of chocolate coated strawberries.
SightlessFive@reddit
I saw a video from Dr Huberman who said that willpower is improved by doing things you don’t want to do. For example you’re feeling really tired but you go to the gym anyway.
However for people who eat you cant just stop eating, it’s like asking an alcoholic to have one drink and stop there.
I’m currently in contest prep for bodybuilding and I am on a low dose of Reta and it has helped tremendously with food cravings. When you’re very low in bf cravings go through the roof. This has completely stopped my food noise but it has also dulled all pleasurable desires. I don’t want sugar, I don’t want to even consider drinking, it has also dulled the desire for sex.
Some of the other glp1 drugs I’ve read have helped people stop gambling. I think all the stuff is really interesting and how it can help people.
But I always keep in my mind there’s a quote I always come back to when having anything to improve performance or even supplements. “There is no such thing as a free meal”
SpaceCatSociety@reddit
Yeah I’d take advice from Dr Manosphere with a spoonful of salt
Relative-Tea3944@reddit
There's perhaps no free will at all
Remarkable-Ad155@reddit
Glp 1 drugs are life changing and the price increase is a massive, massive tragedy. The UK really needs to step up and do something about lowering the cost again so more people can access them, and for longer.
handtoglandwombat@reddit
They’re being assessed by NHS For various use cases right now and it seems extremely likely that they’ll become widely available. It’s one of those drugs that can easily save us money down the road by employing preventative measures now. Unless larger issues reveal themselves, it’s a no brainer.
Remarkable-Ad155@reddit
Good to hear (and agreed).
Liv_October@reddit
I was reading about GLP1 drugs out of curiosity and when they were explaining how it affects mindset around food I was baffled - I experience exactly the same symptoms that are attributed to those drugs.
It's not even about self-control or will power because I really struggle with that in other aspects of my life! I just genuinely don't seem to get the same hunger or reward cues from food that are presumed to be "typical". I still enjoy food, but I have to make a conscious effort to remember to eat.
BG3restart@reddit
I really thought obesity was totally self inflicted until I became menopausal. Now no amount of dieting or exercise will shift the abdominal fat that has accumulated in the last three years and it affects every aspect of my life.
Rich-Peak-3902@reddit
To be fair, you can't spot reduce fat. You either have less fat in general or more fat in general, but you can't control where the fat deposits on your body.
BG3restart@reddit
I used to think that too, but I have never before carried weight around my middle, even at my heaviest. Changes in hormones at menopause make a huge difference in weight distribution in some women.
Rich-Peak-3902@reddit
Oh yeah, your body can change where it decides fat will live, no argument; but *you* can't make a difference to that.
vientianna@reddit
Wow so many people in this thread already with no personal experience of obesity giving big bold claims without actually having lived it themselves.
I’m a (to quote someone else in this thread) middle class national truster with an Oxford PhD and lifetime in medical research, access to psychologists, surgery, personal trainers. I should have all the tools to maintain a healthy body weight. I’ve tried every single option and lost and gained more weight than I could ever recall. The only thing that has actually worked sustainably is GLP-1s.
I know it hurts a lot of you that it turns out that your ability to maintain a normal weight is not because of your superior motivation skills. Obesity is fundamentally at a very basic level about calories in, calories out - but there are clearly so many other factors controlling the bigger picture and many of these are not within an individual’s control
bartread@reddit
I get this point of view but the reason people question it - or at least the reason I question it - is that if you look at photos of people from the 1960s or 1970s, even up into the 1980s, obesity - across all demographics in the country - was the exception rather than the norm.
So whilst it might very well not just be diet, exercise, and willpower, there is some factor at play here - I don't know what, maybe something to do with food additives, maybe the fact that smoking is much less prevalent, maybe something else - that's messing with our ability to maintain a healthy weight that is different from the way things were 40, 50, 60 years ago*.
I'm really happy GLP-1s exist and that they're helping so many people, but we also need to be honest enough to acknowledge that they're treating a symptom and not a cause. I would love to know what that cause is.
*Obviously if you go back much further than this you're into rationing, and then in the earlier part of the 20th century and before that you had much larger swathes of the population living in extreme poverty, where malnutrition becomes a real factor.
Specimen_E-351@reddit
It's the easy access to garbage food and drink, and being sedentary. That's what has changed.
I've never personally spent time around an obese person without spotting something that is keeping them obese within a short period of that time.
Morganx27@reddit
The fact that it's got so much worse in recent years kind of proves that it's more to do with the environment of what food is available and cheap than personal willpower. If it was purely due to personal decisions, then there would have to have been an event in around 1990-2010 that demoralised people comparatively overnight to the point that they can no longer maintain a healthy weight. I think changes in food manufacturing to appease capitalist desires for increased revenue at all costs is more likely than something happening to mean that people today are just less good at doing stuff.
I don't mean to pretend it's entirely independent of personal decisions, I absolutely could and must make better decisions and I have to take responsibility for that, but the world we live in now does not make it particularly easy.
No_Ring_3348@reddit
Obesity rates started spiking in the early 70s, alongside sperm counts starting to drop. You're not going to like any of the possible causative agents here...
vientianna@reddit
That’s a bit like saying there were no alcoholics before alcohol was invented. Of course not, but some people are fundamentally predisposed to become one, and others will have circumstantial influences which will further enhance that. But the root cause is not that they’re just not trying hard enough.
schaweniiia@reddit
Have you read Ultraprocessed People before? It offers a good introduction to why this development may have happened.
Flashbambo@reddit
Came here to say exactly this. People don't eat actual food anymore.
deathmetalbestmetal@reddit
Okay I'll do it. I'm going to bite and be the dickhead.
Nor have you lived the life of a person of a healthy weight who has done so thorough hard work and tough mental motivation. We do not all need personal experience of everything we pass comment on.
None of these things are required to maintain a healthy body weight though. Vanishingly few people are overweight because they don't have access to these things.
It is in many cases though. People of a healthy weight without GLP-1s quite simply are better able to control their eating habits than you are. In some (probably most) cases this is because they don't have the same intense desire for food that you do. In other cases they simply are stronger willed and are better able to control their eating than you.
There are indeed many factors that affect how difficult it is for a person to maintain the correct balance, and they may well be out of an individual's control. But this does not change the fact that fundamentally whether to eat or not is within essentially everyone's control.
vientianna@reddit
I certainly hope that gave you the self satisfaction you were looking for
Flat_News_2000@reddit
You seemed to be getting a lot of self-satisfaction from your comment so it only seems fair.
deathmetalbestmetal@reddit
It has nothing to do with 'self satisfaction'. I'm slim and have a fairly small appetite; I am well aware I am lucky in that sense. I don't have a horse in this race.
My issue is twofold. Firstly that your comments belittle the efforts of people who really do put a huge amount of mental effort in and are successful in maintaining a healthy weight. Secondly that they further this idea that things are beyond our control, which is dangerous and unhealthy.
Euphoric_Barber_5424@reddit
+1
It was quite jarring reading how my regular exercise, diet and discipline in taking care of my body was waved away as luck or attributed to somethig out of my control.
SpaceCatSociety@reddit
100%, very relatable though my PhD is from another university.
vientianna@reddit
Hahaha I can’t even say anything back to that
CoopssLDN@reddit
I’m curious why you’ve changed your mindset, as I do think majority of cases of obesity are down to the individual’s way of living. I’m afraid it really is as simple as eating better and moving more to maintain a healthy weight, it’s not rocket science. People resort to processed junk food and don’t spend enough time exercising. For the most part - I accept in some cases it is genetjc or due to health reasons.
Theratchetnclank@reddit
It's 100% this. I do believe junk food addiction is a thing however, but obesity is definitely due to lack of self control. The body might scream its hungry but it's only because it's used to that amount of food. After a week or two of eating less it doesn't do it anymore.
CoopssLDN@reddit
This is absolutely true, you just have to be disciplined. I can see lots of downvotes though so a lot of people in denial 😅
Kindly-Berry8620@reddit
Where does that discipline and self control come from? How do you create it or access it?
Flat_News_2000@reddit
Practice
CoopssLDN@reddit
You create it. Accountability is one’s own responsibility
Leeeeeroy-Jenkins@reddit (OP)
Because it doesn’t work.
Let’s use an example of this hypothetical disciplined person who has never been overweight.
If not being obese was solely a matter of discipline, I’d be expecting them to extend said discipline to every other aspect of their life.
So why do never-obese “disciplined” people:
- Gamble beyond their means.
- Habitually use recreational drugs.
- Over-consume vs recommended alcohol servings.
- Impulsively spend money and/or incur debt.
- Have risky sexual relationships.
\^ This is non-exhaustive btw.
The idea that obesity is a product of a lack of discipline is just not working against the backdrop of what we see around us. People have to make efforts to lose weight yes, but it’s not like the picture people who think this is some kind of discipline problem are painting.
ActionBirbie@reddit
All those things are not necessary and simple to avoid. Those with Ultralow discipline can just not engage with them.
Eating is necessary. You cannot decide to not do it. It has a much lower bar to become addicted because it's all around and you need to do it every day.
Which-World-6533@reddit
By this logic it's fine for me to go and commit a crime.
Sorry Officer, I didn't have self-discipline....!
Which-World-6533@reddit
Lol. That's Reddit for you.
sandra_nz@reddit
Or maybe people with a different lived experience to yours? I have been obese on and off for 50 years, and went through periods of strict calorie counting (sometimes for years at a time). At no point did my body stop screaming at me in the way it has for the 2 years I've been on a GLP-1.
Which-World-6533@reddit
Pretty much. However this is Reddit where the idea of self-control is pretty much non-existent.
It always has to be a fancy disease why people can't do anything.
Leeeeeroy-Jenkins@reddit (OP)
I do around 6-8 hours of cardio a week, lift weights 4x a week and track what I consume. I maintain a healthy body weight and athletic levels of physical skill through these efforts. That allows me a lot of room to eat higher calories than the average and I can offset a lot of excesses in the short term due to my fitness.
But I do this because I enjoy it, and it centres me, not because it’s necessary to maintain a health weight - this is not the norm and never was in eras where obesity was less common. I wouldn’t expect anybody to make these efforts.
Its not rocket science, but the causes of obesity are complex and not a product of laziness, its a multi factorial issue about fighting a battle against food environment where we are surrounded by energy availability and hyper palatable food products, manual labour is less common, and many people are time poor.
We also should be acknowledging that there is some kind of widespread deficiency in endocrine produced GLP-1 in the current generation (whether it’s due to habits and obesity or something else entirely) as medicating it is making the biggest difference for many who are obese.
No obese person wants to be obese. Try to focus on that fact.
AutomaticInitiative@reddit
Thank you. I'm dating an obese woman who is that way, yes, she eats well, but mostly, it's because she used to be a body builder and eating high levels of food to maintain musculature, then got injured in multiple ways and now cannot stand for long neither can she lift very much without pain. A 500m walk causes her agony and not because of her weight, but because her hip cartilage is almost gone. She can hardly exercise out of her weight!
XihuanNi-6784@reddit
What you're ignoring is why are obesity rates so high now? Do you think people in 1960 were all spending as much time as we do now monitoring their diets and going out exercising a lot? They weren't. The entire economy and food environment is different now.
Back then, cheap food (i.e. food for poorer people) was relatively healthy, now it's the opposite. Healthy food is expensive and cheap food is unhealthy. Back then most people had exercise built into their jobs, all jobs were more physical even white collar work. Now you can do your entire day of work sitting down for 8 hours straight thanks to technology like email, printers, and online meetings.
By your logic, everyone just got lazier, but that makes no sense and needs an explanation in and of itself. But the systemic explanation makes more sense. People on average have a certain amount of free time and will power to spend on 'self improvement'. Back in 1960 almost no one had to spend their limited free time and mental energy on monitoring their weight. Now many of us do, and we don't necessarily have enough of that energy.
Theratchetnclank@reddit
Kind of yeah. Preparing healthy food for yourself takes a lot more time and motivation than a ready meal or prepared jarred sauces. Exercise is a lot more effort than being sedentary. Resisting that sugary snack when feeling low is a lot harder than succumbing to the temptation and then there is the hidden empty calories of sugary drinks and alcohol.
I don't blame people for being overweight it's very easy to do in the modern world, however it's completely within their power to lose weight but it does take a lot of motivation to not fall back to the convenient and easy options.
The other thing is a lot of people struggle because they lost weight via a diet and then fall back to old habits because keeping up with the diet is hard. The problem is dieting is a lifestyle it has to be maintained. People will say they've tried everything and it doesn't work but that's bullshit, you consume less calories than you burn and you will lose weight it's just the lifestyle of doing that isn't compatible with how they want to live.
ActionBirbie@reddit
Because of the rise in "Convenience-Over-Everything" culture.
People literally give their most intimate personal details to megacorporations for nothing but to ability to save a click or to on a website now. Of course people have got lazier, society has been engineering it.
decobelle@reddit
You are correct at its most basic level that that's how weight loss works. No matter what diet someone is on, whether Keto, Weight Watchers, meal replacement shakes, high protein, etc, all diets that involve a calorie deficit and exercise will lead to weight loss in the short term.
However we have evidence that none of these diets work long term. The vast majority of people who lose weight on a diet end up gaining it back, often yo-yoing between losing and gaining over their life.
So the question then becomes, why do some people find it easy to stick to a healthy lifestyle and others don't, despite trying over and over? What makes it more challenging for them? Why do they have "less willpower" when they clearly really want to stick with it?
And there are a lot of things that can impact this. Some are medical - differences in the brain like ADHD affecting impulse control or impacts from trauma or mental health for example. Or issues with thyroid etc. Others are social - can they afford healthy food? Is it readily available nearby? Do they have transport? Do they have time and energy to make it happen? Are they surrounded by fast food stores?
ActionBirbie@reddit
Bad upbringing.
These things are generational. People tend to keep and maintain the habits they learned in childhood. if your parents were neglectful of things in the first few years of your life, you have an incredible uphill struggle and will most likely "pass on" those selfsame habits to your offspring.
TheNinjaPixie@reddit
This is so true, i was brought up poor in the 1970's. We had an allotment, we ate a lot of veg, and fast food was a thing of the future. We ate basic meat/veg/carbs and never ate snacks, they were something for a birthday tea. We were all stick thin and this was the case for everyone I knew. We were all working class people, and there were times I remember being hungry. My parents were war children and food waste was an outrage to them. My sister and I are still food growing meat veg and carb people, few takeaways, all food home made. Yes i have treats now, but children growing up today have immediate access to UHPF delivered to their homes within the hour. Everything is immediate and a lot of reasonably priced food is not as nutritionally good as whole foods. So unless society changes as a whole, this discussion will run and run.
Sevenoflime@reddit
I’m technically obese. I play netball twice a week, walk at least 10k steps a day, do 2 x cardio a week (including a personal trainer) and lift weights. I eat 1400-600 calories 3-4 days out of the week, 1800 one day a week and then 2100 the other two (not always). It is taking me fucking forever to lose any weight at all.
Liv_October@reddit
Dude I mainly eat processed junk food, don't exercise at all and I'm 21 BMI, slap bang in the middle of healthy. I think there's a lot of us out there absolutely coasting on genetics and health issues when it comes to not being overweight.
EpponeeRae@reddit
It is simple, yes, but it is not equally easy for everyone.
I'd always been fairly fit when I could exercise, and around the high end of healthy weight range when exercise was more difficult due to injury or whatever.
Then I went on some medication that increased my appetite. I grew up with good eating and activity habits, but they meant nothing in the face of the brain-rewiring side effects of this medication. I was even extended fasting for days at a time to try to help offset the rapid increase in my weight from never feeling satiated.
It is so difficult, near impossible, to fully understand and appreciate the real effects of medical/hormonal/whatever external influences on your appetite and energy levels unless and until it happens to you.
The efficacy of GLP-1 jabs really holds a mirror up to the overwhelming influence of appetite on your eventual weight.
I think we all know and agree that calories in and calories out is fairly simple. But there are so many other influences on both ends of that equation that are easy to ignore if you're fortunate enough not to be impacted by them.
Thankfully for me, I've been able to change meds and am again very close to my "normal" weight range after having been obese quite recently.
Random_Nobody1991@reddit
Agreed. I’ve actively been eating less (and healthier) as well as exercising more for around 10 months and have lost over 30 lbs. With that said, most processed food that people eat is just crap.
Gingerpett@reddit
Weight loss jabs are a medical solution. Shows it's a medical problem.
It's that simple for me.
alyaaz@reddit
Ultra processed food is quite literally designed to be addictive. The brain of a person on a high UPF diet mirrors that of a drug addict. If you grew up eating a lot of UPF, you are set up to fail
cr4lforce@reddit
Exactly this. Although probably not the healthiest option, if i think I'm getting fat and I'm not getting out enough I just start fasting and don't eat anything for 24 hours and then keep calorie intake very low after that until the weight drops off.
If you don't want to be obese it is literally as simple stop consuming more calories and burn off all rhe calories you've got stored.
AtLeastOneCat@reddit
What changed my view on obesity was getting put on a bunch of psych meds and going from thin to obese in a couple of years.
I had to come off mirtazapine because the hunger pangs were so bad they were waking me up at night and I was in physical pain like I hadn't eaten in days. I found myself in front of the fridge at 3am eating buttered bread slices like they were mana from heaven.
It's impossible to think, exercise, move, concentrate when you're that hungry. I watched myself get bigger and bigger and feel worse and worse.
Flat_News_2000@reddit
Is your body actually hungry or is it your brain wanting you to get some dopamine hits? Were you shaky and lightheaded or just hungry?
umbrellajump@reddit
I'm on mirtazapine and the insane weight gain from the ravenous hunger uncovered PCOS. They don't want to take me off mirtazapine because of the severity of my mental health issues, but they tell me to lose weight to help the PCOS.
It's infuriating and there's absolutely no help available for med-based weight gain, the weight management services had no idea what to do with me and I was bounced back to my GP. They're doing GLP-1 trials in my area but I don't qualify because you have to have a BMI over 40! So I'm too fat and yet not fat enough.
Edd_the_Redd@reddit
So the adverts are working then.
Supernewt@reddit
A perfect example here is to take a look at dinner plates. Look at the size 40 years ago to today's plates, you will see the size of our plates have increased notably. Its a perfect example of the obesogenic society we live in. Buy one get one free on umhealthy food...never veg etc.
Dont get me wrong there is a personal element to it, but its so disingenuous to say its all down to willpower and lazy if not.
There's some great research and interesting psychological books around the subject of dieting. The expectation effect is a great one to read if you want to see how your brain can be your best friend or your worst enemy based entirley off mindset. There's a few chapters on food and diets which are enlightening, but the book is a great read for everyone.
AutomaticInitiative@reddit
Buy one get one free on unhealthy food has been banned for years already.
Theallseer97@reddit
People can say what they want about weight loss drugs but it's helped me change my life (I go hiking, I eat well, I look and feel great, I'm mentally and emotionally the best I've ever been).
Food noise for me is literally my every waking thought being turned towards food, even when I'm full, even when I'm actively eating. This isn't just planning a meal for later or the next day etc, this is a what can I eat next, I must eat now, sort of thing. It's horrible to manage, like intrusive thoughts but not just mental, it's physical. Like I will physically feel like I must eat more food.
Many people have gone on GLP1s privately, I was put on them by my GP because no type 2 diabetic medication was helping lower my blood sugars which were sky high (I tried 3 of them before my GP was allowed to put me on GLP1). The suppression of food noise made me feel like taking my first breath of air after drowning my entire life (I've been morbidly obese since I was 10 years old). I've lost 6 and a half stone currently with about 2 and half to go to bed in a healthy BMI, I'm healthier now and slimmer, than I was as a teenager (I'm 29). At the end of the day it's a medicine that helps people just like any other. Those who see it as a cheet sheet for weight loss and not the life saving medication it is are frankly not worth my time.
evenifihateit@reddit
What has really surprised me about wegovy is the effect on my desire to drink alcohol. It's pretty much gone. I was a daily drinker before and now it's one a week at most and I am done after two or three drinks with no interest in having any more.
notouttolunch@reddit
It's a shame you're wrong. Lifestyle coaches prove this every day.
People ask why I'm not fat despite eating a packet of biscuits every day. The answer is I spend my time climbing hills, I go to the gym every week day and I don't eat pizza for every meal. I also detect the weight gain and do something about it.
Bodies are all different but the only way to ever lose weight is calories out > calories in.
To give you an idea of how that changed over time, a navi building the canal would burn over 6000 calories per day. I, an engineer who has spent all morning at a computer, am up to around 900. I've eaten around 600 and have yet to eat dinner and tea.
Mean-Aside1970@reddit
It's a shame you lack nuance and understanding. You're seriously suggesting lifestyle coaches to be the pinnacle of proving what is and isn't healthy? It's great that you can go out and hike and gym but not everyone can do that. And while I do believe mind over matter you also need to apply this to every single individual. There are numerous reasons why people can't just go for a hike or go to the gym. Not everyone has the financial ability to do so. And sure they can walk to places instead of drive but again, you never know what someone is going through. Genetics also plays a massive role.
So no bro, who cares what lifestyle coaches say.
notouttolunch@reddit
Yes, that's a good example. People like you and this sort of thinking is the problem.
Thanks for demonstrating how people these days just give up. Finding obstscles instead of solutions.
Do you think the whole human race is now genetically defective? Do you think that happened in the last 40 years? What poppycock.
Justboy__@reddit
No, but 40 years ago we weren’t flooded with ultra processed food and round the clock advertising for it. Also people had much more manual jobs, they were a lot less sedentary so the there was less need to visit a gym.
notouttolunch@reddit
Again, that's not a problem with the human which is what is being suggested. That's down to people's choices.
No medicine or intervention required. Glad you agree with me.
Mean-Aside1970@reddit
I go to the gym 4 times a week, run 2 times a week and I eat whatever my heart desires. I make sure I carve out time, but I also have empathy something which you so clearly lack. So go ahead, keep judging me and saying that people like me are the problem.
notouttolunch@reddit
Empathy is one thing.
Facing harsh truths is another.
Ok-Spite-5454@reddit
so... you want a medal or?
notouttolunch@reddit
No. What makes you ask?
Least-Entrepreneur23@reddit
100% this. Writing obesity off as a disease is just trying to absolve yourself of the responsibility of being overweight
notouttolunch@reddit
The disease is lazyness. Including mental lazyness.
AutomaticInitiative@reddit
The culture has considered fatness a personal failure for a long time but these drugs are slowly changing people's minds. Fatphobia probably won't go away but may lesson in person. I've been overweight for a long time but said weight has been stable for a decade and to lose weight is very difficult as my TDEE is about 1560 (yes, I've calculated it that closely because it's so important to stick to, and any lower usually has me feeling like crap).
Anyway to answer the question, I've recently changed my mind on keeping the heating on. It was turned down (on a thermostat) because it was warming up (and because my flatmate was bitching about it) but the weather is absolutely rubbish this week and so I've turned it back up.
Mysterious-Bid-9446@reddit
I have an eating disorder, low weight but not dangerously, believe me, food noise is the worst, it never ends it's relentless, society is half to blame
RockAndHardPlace81@reddit
Interesting question and completely agree.
I've recently had to change my viewpoint of ADHD. My husband recently confided in me that he thinks he has it and I was initially so darn sceptical. My couch potato book-loving husband who takes ages to make decisions having hyperactivity? My cousin has ADHD but it was much more stereotypical, she talks all the time, is very impulsive and is very loud. However, since doing all the research and understanding the mental and emotional features of it, I do agree with him. Kind of linked to your point on obesity, when you realise what behaviour/thinking these differences in the brain cause, you do really start wondering if anything is "just our personality" or if our biology is running the show without us knowing? To make it UK specific, I was initially taken in by that Panorama about ADHD clinics until I read all the responses to it and now understand the issues with the investigation. I've never thought Panorama was particularly reliable as there are a fair few episodes with deliberate skews, this is just another to add to the pile.
Hour-Estate-2962@reddit
I saw someone commenting that weight loss drugs are the lazy way of losing weight. Someone responded that washing machines are the lazy way of doing washing but we don't judge people for using them.
People get morally superior over people using a 'quick fix' especially if they themselves have done it the hard way but I say if something works for you, crack on! We don't have to do everything the hard way.
Rich-Peak-3902@reddit
My objection isn't to the ease (doing something the easiest, laziest way is just efficient, well done), it's the dangers of treating what is most often a psychological problem with a pharmaceutical solution. Treating the symptom without the cause is dangerous as the underlying issue remains.
Morganx27@reddit
Good luck getting a psychological problem treated in this country, gimme the drugs
Hour-Estate-2962@reddit
That's true though many studies have shown it to be a physical problem at well. Some people don't produce or are resistant to GLP-1. That's just one physical factor that can affect weight loss. In an ideal world the two would be paired together, pharmaceutical as well as psychological, similar to the treatment of depression.
Rich-Peak-3902@reddit
It absolutely can be a physiological problem, that's why I said "most often" rather than an absolute statement. Some people really do have their biology fighting against them in terms of obesity. And equally, when I say "psychological" I'm not talking about simple willpower (although that is a small factor), but that they do not have the mental health tools or resilience to function in a food-healthy way for whatever reason; be that environment, circumstances, stress, upbringing, etc.
Some obese people just don't care and eat too much. Some obese people care very much but have bad biochemistry. Most obese people live in a world where diet is at the mercy of the difficulties of the life they lead.
Hour-Estate-2962@reddit
Very true, it's not a simple issue, I'd agree with that and I think it carries a lot of shame makes accessing support very tricky with many obese people feeling too embarrassed to exercise for example.
miz_moon@reddit
‘Eat less move more’ does work though. If you eat more calories than you need, you will gain weight. It just takes a lot of willpower to restrict.
memcwho@reddit
Big guys and gals, just know that if I see you out and about having a run, or a good walk in work out clothes, I am on your side and think 'good on you, pal. Set a personal best today, mate'.
And I think to myself towards the obvious runners and conventionally attractive yoga trouser wearers 'Hey guy, fuck you.'
-a glp1 user
Short-Reputation-345@reddit
I'm not debating that poor quality food is designed to be as addictive as possible and healthier food is often more expensive, but I'm afraid it does boil down to personal responsibility. People need to ingrain exercise and movement into their lives and I don't just mean getting in their steps.
Rich-Peak-3902@reddit
Exercise and movement are great for general health, but are not the cure to obesity. You can't out-train a bad diet. Half an hour of cycling is undone by a slice of cake. An hour of weight lifting is undone by third of a pizza.
piernut@reddit
You are not entirely wrong, but I do think that belief is outdated.
I was obese and lost 7 stone several years ago, before these drugs were a thing. I did this by adjusting my entire life around fitness and eating schedules, which I was able to do due to being self-employed.
I had visible abs, needed a tummy tuck, and was fit enough to run a 3-hour marathon.
I was very much a calorie-in vs calories-out person, and as much as I understood how people end up obese, I had that attitude of looking down on people for not putting the effort in.
My business failed, and I eventually had to get a 9-5 job, and without that obsessive routine, it was an absolute nightmare to maintain my weight. Food dominates every thought and makes it hard to concentrate on work.
After gaining quite a bit of weight, I just about qualified for GLP1s, and it has been transformative. Obviously, weight loss is great, but food isn’t dominating my entire life, I am not thinking about it all the time, and I am able to make healthier, less dopamine-chasing, impulsive decisions about what to eat.
It is worth noting that I have ADHD, which contributes to it. While I don’t think everyone is a little bit ADHD, like so many say, I do think modern life has fucked people's heads up enough that many of us have these dopamine chasing behaviours.
DNBassist89@reddit
My discussions into my possible ADHD have definitely opened my eyes to some of the issues impacting my weight and my struggle to lose weight.
That's not to take away any self responsibility by any means, I know I could do more, but I also now realise that my brain is wired in a certain way that certainly doesn't help me.
The cost of living, the cheapness of easily accessible junk food and the lack of free time people have now definitely doesn't help either.
WildWanderingRedHead@reddit
I gained 3 stone in perimenopause from severe insulin sensitivity - which is NOT a medical disease but just a particularly sensitive reaction to the changes from estrogen/cortisol/blood sugar in perimenopause. Doctors made me take loads of protein shakes...but couldn't sort it so I needed huge amount of sugar (that I didn't want or like) in order just to function normally - because I couldn't take HRT. I am now significantly overweight..despite being the most active person in my team in terms of exercise. There seems to be very litle research or awareness of how hormonal shifts impact women's health and weight especially in perimenopause where the body is going through a series of endocrinological storms. I have post menopaused now and the desperate symptoms screaming at me to eat sugar...have faded but I am now faced with the task of losing three stone and have no idea what to do since I am already so active. While my particular issue was extreme... I have spoken to many other women with similar symptoms. Cardio is the worst... I gained 2 of those three stone through taking my doctors advice and increasing cardio.. something that a woman's health specialist said was the worst thing. I am not greedy, I take care of myself, I eat clean, I'm successful and yet I became extremely overweight due to this.
Gloomy_Bonus_2215@reddit
I think us fatties are more evolved, in history it would be very odd for people to turn away delicious readily available food.
I think some people have it easier than others to eat well, I am very well educated on the manner, parents and sister are a healthy weight but I just love food so much and struggle to keep my overweight bmi.
I recently only found out how harder it is for women especially to lose weight.
ripnetuk@reddit
It should be obvious why, but my opinion of if we need a monarchy went from "hell no" to "well maybe we actually do" within the last few weeks.
perpetualmentalist@reddit
I use to be 21 stone. Once you realise your a fat bastard, that should be the shock to start changing. I'm now underweight at 10stone.
It's not easy, but some people are just deaf, especially when it comes to food and exercise. I walked my ass off, and cycled.
I buy fresh food daily, and it costs less than frozen and processed shite. UK here.
I think people are lazy, especially parents. Kids should not be fat, period. Lazy parents, too many easy meals/treats.
scottofscotia@reddit
Yeah I don't want to make it a class thing but so many factors that if you are poor, need easy quick meal that kids won't moan at are ultra processed fatty, then add snacks energy drinks etc set you up as an adult with a poor start for relationship with food. (How I was and it's fucking hard to turn off food noise and random snacks/meals now, and a lot may be my brain chemistry but some of that is just impossible to get a routine with food now)
Similarly, say middle class national trust families that have structured routines for healthy mealtimes and types of snacks, if you are raised with that as normal, you are set up far better to have healthy relationship with food.
So if jabs break the chain, then go for it.
Justboy__@reddit
Why don’t you want to make it a class thing when that’s a big part of the issue?
scottofscotia@reddit
Everything has an aspect of class in it, but sometimes that will then distract from the point of bad relationships with food rather than class inequality.
Which seems true but that's another debate.
So just trying to show clear examples of lifestyle differences rather than blame on straight "Working class will be fat and middle class more likely to be healthy" even if that is the TLDR! Haha
SpaceCatSociety@reddit
Could the relationship between food and middle class education go the other way around perhaps. I am middle class by any reasonable measure but I’m obese
chrisjwoodall@reddit
Indeed - anyone who works 9-5(ish) in a stimulating and rewarding job, however hard they work, should try unfulfilling shift work for a year or so if they want to criticise the behaviour of others.
Any_Preference_4147@reddit
Being very overweight/underweight and having eating issues (on either end of the sclae) is absolutely a mental issue before a health one. It starts in the mind, the weight is a symptom.
I have struggled with my weight all my life. I grew up fat, then lost 11 stone naturally in my early 20s. I then became dependent on alcohol and got sober in my early 30s. Through sobriety I have put about 5 stone on.
I now know that I sort of went through what's called "addiction transfer"- I never truly kicked the food addiction, I became addicted to alcohol in it's place.
It's a mental battle that I'll be contending with for life. If it was as simple as "eat less" there just wouldn't be any fat people. We know it's unhelpful to tell someone who's extremely underweight to "eat more" but what we're not very good at understanding is that for bigger people, it's not just about the food, it's a mental health issue.
SpaceCatSociety@reddit
If it’s a mental issue then how do you explain glp1s working? Could the relationship you’re observing work the other way around? The attitudes I face an obese person and the impact of obesity on my mental health are a massive issue
Ok_Kale_3160@reddit
When I was about 9, and a very skinny child, I was out at a market with my cousins and this bloke ran past, picked me up and ran off with me! It was absolutely terrifying! Turned out it was just my stepdad having a joke but now as an adult I feel much safer being overweight outside because I know its really unlikely anyone will pick me up and kidnapp me, its quite good to be unattractive like that as a female. It keeps you 'safe' I'm simplifyling it and It's not all completely conscious. I would like to be thinner, if only for health reasons, but these psychological things must be in my mind somewhere, possibly sabotaging efforts for weight loss.
PostModernistTrash@reddit
Yeah, for sure there's a mental component for most, or at least some people in this situation. I had substance abuse problems in the past, and am still fighting to quit drinking; I simply do not have an "off" switch when it comes to things I use to numb/comfort myself, and that also includes food.
I was lucky that for the majority of my life, I rarely gained much weight no matter what I ate or how much. Unfortunately for me, menopause has very much changed that and if I'm not super mindful of what I eat (which is still very hard for me) then I start blowing up like a balloon.
Any_Preference_4147@reddit
I'm sorry to hear of your struggles, it's honestly hellish.
Personal responsibility is a huge factor, it is entirely down to the individual. But, and that's a big BUT! There are so many factors that make up a lifestyle, it's really not just as simple as "eat less".
It's far easier for me, - a childless, able bodied person in full time work - to stay on track than it is for many, many other people who are in completely different life situations. There is no one answer to why someone is obese, and there's no one "fix".
PostModernistTrash@reddit
Thanks. Life is a wild ride, eh?
But yes, things are very rarely as simple as a lot of people try to make out. Everybody absolutely does have to take control, but it matters what it is that actually needs controlling, and how easy it's going to be to do that.
Akiyama_Gari@reddit
I agree with this. I've always been reasonably slim, and no doubt a little judgemental of those who weren't (sorry guys). A health check revealed that while you can't see it from the outside, I'm not immune to the effects of metabolic syndrome (of which obesity is just one symptom). Slightly raised blood pressure, slightly raised cholesterol, all likely down to eating the wrong food and not exercising enough.
Justboy__@reddit
Nobody ever wanted to be obese. If it were so simple to just use self control, we’d all be a really healthy weight.
Amarita_Sen@reddit
When the general advice doesn't work for 95%, the advice is wrong. In the case of obesity it's oversimplified to the point of redundancy.
Making everything low fat and high sugar has been extremely unhelpful. Refined carbs are cheap and plentiful, but whole foods take time and preparation.
When the food we eat causes blood sugar to spike, insulin also spikes to bring it down. Insulin often overshoots and we then get low blood sugar, leading to that post-meal sluggishness. Your body registers low blood sugar and gets hungry again.
The advice rarely talks about hormones, macronutrients, micronutrients, how and what and when to eat, etc. It just says eat less.
elizabethpickett@reddit
The whole low fat, high sugar thing is also stupid, because the acts will help you feel full, especially combined with protein. High sugar just gives you a crash so you eat more.
Amarita_Sen@reddit
Yup. Make food stupid, then blame people for being hungry and eating more.
DB-DanCooper@reddit
Lack of self control, choice etc are neurological.
Death_Binge@reddit
I have sympathy for some people trying to lose weight - I mean, a lot of the food we eat, even supposedly healthy food, is loaded with sugars and additives to make us crave more.
At the same time, I have no sympathy for adults who think their diets should look like the buffet table at a child's birthday party. You don't even need to count calories, just look at a boxer's diet and eat that. It's basic nutrition you learned in school. No, it's not always fun eating wholemeal carbs and vegetables. Tough.
catnipbanana1@reddit
There was a lot of interesting information in he book Ultra Processed People about how many additives used by the food industry in the production of processed food interact with out bodies and how they may be a huge factor in overeating and timing obesity levels.
Rosetti@reddit
For reference OP, if you're asking an open question, you should always put your answer in the comments. Otherwise the entire thread just focuses on that initial topic.
terryjuicelawson@reddit
It is difficult as we need to eat to survive. It isn't like a smoking or alcohol problem where we can abstain. It is a constant nag through every single one of our lives with the body programmed to want fat and sugar to keep us alive. Not everyone has time to exercise, especially with family and work commitments. People often do have to make it work, and if anyone is currently smug that they can do this - it can change rapidly.
Zharkgirl2024@reddit
UPF is the devil and brain chemistry is messaging affected by it. Dr Xander ate UFP for a month and it literally changed good brain chemistry - shown by scans they did before And after. If you're nehrodiverse that makes things even harder. I know my addiction is sugar. It's in everything.
I used to think obesity was a choice but I have ADHD and it's all or nothing for me.
My shock about the UK is the drinking culture here. It's literally wine o'clock every day, I used to work in bars in Cyprus in the 80s and the brits reputation for getting wasted was awful then. Now, it's 100x worse. Nowhere else in Europe do people stick the way they do here. Thankfully I have dial nationality and never admit to being English when I'm abroad.
Groundsinho@reddit
It is simple. It's just fucking hard.
ukstonerdude@reddit
Pretty much the same views as you, but for drugs and drug addiction. Had a friend die after a drug overdose and for a long time after I was very “anti-drug” but as time has gone on, I’ve heard more stories, read more studies, listened to both arguments (given that I did indeed go from one side of opinion to the other).
Prohibition doesn’t work, and people will always find a way to consume drugs. Criminalising consumption and addiction as equally as the production and distribution of those drugs is counterproductive, and not legalising it quite literally keeps the control in the hands of the gangs that peddle drugs. Glasgow’s drug room is a perfect example of how much better we can perform in regard to drugs and its various epidemics.
nick9000@reddit
When I watched the 2017 documentary AlphaGo I thought it was cool that a British based team developed an AI that defeated one of the world's top Go players.
Now I hate what AI has become and wish it would die.
chefshoes@reddit
our political viewpoint has moved to the left quite drastically and more and more people think trump is amazing.
when he was elected on his first term there was much sniggering now they look in awe...!
VerbingNoun413@reddit
!pow 3 Politics
Traditional-Ice9940@reddit
No...more people want the right in as the left haven't done anything for the country
Jezzle219@reddit
This is interesting. I watched the plastic detox on Netflix this week. It was mentioned that the endocrine disruptors in microplastics (which are everywhere in our bodies now) are actually "obesogens" - substances that can promote weight gain and the accumulation of body fat.
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