Are any gas/elec suppliers OK with non-smart meters?

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Superb-Pudding-6532@reddit

I hear you, my mum hates change, she refuses to have a smart meter just because. She refuses to set up direct debits (everything is paid for by cheque or over the phone). Refuses online banking, smart phone..... The list goes on! Why would she need any of that when she has me to sort it all out for her?? 🙄

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richyfreeway@reddit

Just stop sorting it all out for her.

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Superb-Pudding-6532@reddit

Yeah, think you have me confused with someone who can say no 🤣 I am that person that takes in parcels for the whole street, lends tools, I am thinking of offering clubcard deals to the neighbour who constantly borrows food 🤣 I cook and clean for my mum, thing is, I don't mind doing it, I am happy to help. But when I hear that I am a terrible daughter who does practically nothing, that gets my back up! Do I say anything? No, of course I don't 🙄

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sparkly_wolf@reddit

I feel your pain, but as people get older they often lose more and more control over their lives (stopping driving so reliant on others/public transport, unable to do more things independently, even being listened to by Dr's who just dismissed everything as part of aging, who comes in to your house and when if you need care, what food you have if someone else does the shopping).

Sometimes saying no to changes is the only control they have left, however frustrating it is to us who have to deal with it.

Coming from the life of caring for my extremely disabled Mum, who can't do anything independently, can't construct sentences to explain her wishes, has advancing dementia and multiple strokes, assessed by all as lacking mental capacity. What she can do is say NO, turn her face away from being fed food she isn't interested in, refuse to open her mouth for oral care. Even when her refusal is clearly not in her best interests, its her only control over things so we try and be understanding.

Obviously a different extreme to not wanting a smart meter, but the same principle. We all make occasional irrational decisions that aren't the best, but when you're active and independent nobody tries forcing you to change.

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Tall_Relief_9914@reddit

They are all going to do this, what you want really is a supplier that is easy to get in touch with to reduce it.

Octopus are very easy to contact and at least now don’t do everything in their power to direct you to a shit chat bot. I’d consider them if I were you 👍🏼

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JamesH93@reddit

Pay by variable direct debit, then you just get billed for your actual usage each month. Can be done with non smart meters as long as you send a reading each month, otherwise they'll estimate.

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LaidBackLeopard@reddit (OP)

She can't read the meter - I have to do it for her and I don't live nearby. They could trust their estimates, which seem to be very accurate, but they don't.

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seriousrikk@reddit

You’ve just described the perfect use case for a smart meter.

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LaidBackLeopard@reddit (OP)

I know... So the problem is that she's lived a long and very independent life. She's now lost her mobility, and accepting help doesn't come naturally. I've worked hard to gain her confidence, part of which is not trying to steamroller her into things she doesn't want (even if they might make her life easier). She doesn't have a good reason for not wanting a smart meter, so I've just gone along with it, as she shouldn't have to have one. I might just lie and say that she doesn't have a choice...

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Altruistic_Cress_700@reddit

Say that if she gets one she can have a variable direct debit which will only collect the exact amount and all the credit problem will vanish.

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Wonderful_Nerve_8308@reddit

I'm sure you see how nonsensical it is - if she doesn't read meters then she may as well be charged as high as a faulty smart meter like she is being charged now.

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LaidBackLeopard@reddit (OP)

Yeah, she physically can't get to them - I've been reading them every 6 months or so to keep the estimates reasonably accurate. Which they are. No good reason for thousands of £ of credit from my point of view.

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Wonderful_Nerve_8308@reddit

You can probably ask the energy companies to read the meter on her behalf. They have services like this for people with disabilities.

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orange_lighthouse@reddit

Can she send you a photo of it? Assuming she's able to of course.

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LaidBackLeopard@reddit (OP)

Sadly not.

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Azzymaster@reddit

If only there was some way for the meter to read and itself and tell the supplier automatically

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PeteWTF@reddit

The do quarterly variable too, so you'll only need to read it every 3 months (we always read ours as soon as the bill comess through and get a regenerated lower one then same day)

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JamesH93@reddit

Honestly just get them replaced with smart meters and don't tell her about it if she's funny about them. But paying by variable direct debit is the important part otherwise they'll still take a fixed amount and the credit will build up.

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SiDtheTurtle@reddit

Harsh answer: elderly relative needs to get over it and get a smart meter. It really, really helps with more accurate billing.

Helpful answer: I'm with Octopus and every six months or so they email me to say they're increasing the DD, I reply saying no, go away, and they cancel the increase. Try them?

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LaidBackLeopard@reddit (OP)

Yup, a smart meter would make life much easier, not arguing with that! As it happens I'm with Octopus and very happy with them.

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Altruistic_Cress_700@reddit

Also, if they have the cash, then swap to a VARABLE DIRECT DEBIT. Then only exactly what's been consumed is billed. No Credit, no Debit.

If you have the financial flexibility to take a higher bill in winter than summer (much higher) then you don't loan the energy company money.

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DoKtor2quid@reddit

Not everyone can have a smart meter; this attitude that people are stupid if they don't have one isn't great or helpful. I live somewhere (in the mountains) with no mobile reception. This excludes us from having a smart meter. We are one household in 1000s with this issue.

Is an old person wants to stick with what they have, leave them alone. Power companies should not be taking money from people who are in credit by this much. They know full well they're doing it, as they would be on the ball if this old person was the same amount in debt. It's a shitty practice that shouldn't be excused by blaming the customer for having a standard meter.

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99uplight@reddit

Octopus are scum bags, we’ve been in a dispute with them for months over £2000+ worth of bills that they’ve pulled out of their arse and can’t explain or prove and yet still threatening us

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gingerbread85@reddit

I've actually had octopus degreaser my DD by £50/month. They'll go both ways with it.

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Betelgeaux@reddit

I had an email from octopus wanting to increase the DD but I couldn't do anything about it on the mobile app. A few days later online I clicked on change my DD and the recommended figure was less than my current payments! The prediction graph they do has finally taken on board my solar panels and recognised I use sod all power in the summer (imported power that is).

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McLeod3577@reddit

Honestly, just convince her that smart meters are fine. Most of their bad rep is from the first generation of meters.

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LaidBackLeopard@reddit (OP)

I know... but she's stubborn, and smart meters shouldn't be compulsory. May end up going down this road, but we'll be changing suppliers anyway, given how she's been treated.

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indigomm@reddit

I'm curious to know why anyone would think they shouldn't be compulsory. There is no downside to the consumer and plenty of upsides.

If she's been treated poorly then that's another thing - but it doesn't change the fact that the industry has moved to smart metering.

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LaidBackLeopard@reddit (OP)

I'm not saying that aren't a good idea, just that as it stands, customers aren't obliged to accept one.

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Abalone820@reddit

It means someone outside your house can monitor if you’re in from the usage. If that information was hacked this could be someone other than electricity company.

Also believe they can be switched off remotely. This could cause issues in a similar event. If firmware can be updated remotely they could be ‘bricked’.

I have a smart meter and I’m very happy with it. But let’s not pretend there is “no downside”. I just choose convenience and don’t feel the risk of the downside outweighs the benefits.

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Death_God_Ryuk@reddit

I can understand the concerns about them being remotely switch to pre-payment mode, but it doesn't sound like payment is a concern in this case, and there are also legal protections in place to ensure vulnerable people aren't cut off.

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Morris_Alanisette@reddit

BiG eNerGy mInD ContrOl.

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jimicus@reddit

Look, there’s no delicate way to say this, but you don’t own your electricity or gas meter. It’s therefore not up to you what they fit.

You only own the bit after the meter.

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orange_lighthouse@reddit

Ultimately though when her current meters reach end of life thats what she'll get. They won't be making 'dumb' ones anymore.

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FreeBogwoppits@reddit

I'm with British Gas and I don't have a smart meter.

About once a year I get an email from them saying "book your smart meter installation" and I just ignore it.

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LaidBackLeopard@reddit (OP)

Yeah, that's what she's be doing.

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alfienicho@reddit

Every supplier will have an automated system that will review DD amounts periodically, usually quarterly but often monthly after the first few months.

If she is using an old meter she will have to give readings every month for this system to even have a chance of getting close to the actual usage.

My experiences with OVO is that they are a little over zealous with their recalculations, so there are definitely suppliers you'll have better experiences with on that front, I'm with E.ON Next and they have so far kept my DD where I'd expect it to be, for example.

However whenever the meter reaches end of life itnwilnbe exchanged for a smart meter regardless of personal feelings towards them. The majority of the country is on smart meters and there is the looming roll out of Marketwide half hourly settlements which hinges on smart meters (but I won't bore you with the details.

In summary, if you're not willing to have a smart meter (which you will eventually end up with anyway), your leaving the supplier to guess the usage and therefore creating a system where payments are regularly going to be wrong. Some are better than others but it's trial and error.

You could always pay on receipt of bill, meaning you pay within 14 days of a bill being generated and only for what you've used (or estimated to have used) for that bill period.

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LaidBackLeopard@reddit (OP)

I supplied meter readings 6 months ago. She was already £000s in credit; the DD continued at £600/month. Go figure.

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seriousrikk@reddit

So all suppliers will accept no smart customers but the larger suppliers are generally better and handling them.

But based on your comment about reading the meter I really think you need to get a smart meter in the property.

How about this for an idea. Get the meters changed to smart, but unplug and remove the in home display. As far as your elderly relative is concerned they have new meters which will be more accurate. The meters still send consumption data so the bills are then correct.

If in future they build up a large credit I suggest getting it refunded entirely and keeping the DD at a level that covers consumption. Alternatively switch to variable DD so they only pay for what they use.

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LaidBackLeopard@reddit (OP)

Hiding the home display is a good call! And she's probably less tech-literate than the average person in their 90s, so it's not like she'd be able to make much use of it...

I'm working on setting up online access to her account so I can closer eye - I just happened to see a statement when I was visiting and was appalled. Working on the refund, but it's more than 10 times what the phone wonk was allowed to process, so they've kicked it in the direction of the accounts department or some such.

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Death_God_Ryuk@reddit

As a single occupant, my estimated bills with British Gas were always insanely high as they estimated for a fully-occupied, high-usage house. The estimates didn't seem to adapt to my readings and were always pushing upwards every time I got them reduced.

Getting a new smart meter fixed it as they no longer had to estimate usage - the old one had stopped submitting readings, so was essentially a dumb meter. I'd highly encourage requesting one.

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zig131@reddit

Utility Warehouse.

You pay a variable amount each month based on meter readings, and pretty accurate meter reading estimates between readings.

You pay what you use. Never understood the appeal of paying a fixed amount.

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herne_hunted@reddit

It's predictable and I know what's coming each month. It also spreads the cost. I'm on storage heaters and the bills would vary from £50 to £300 a month.

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zig131@reddit

Ooof okay yeah that is some wild variance.

I dump the same amount into a joint account every month shortly after payday which then pays mortage, bills, ground rent, etc so that functions as a buffer against variance.

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Used-Ad9589@reddit

Yet to see the issue with a smart meter. People harp on "they could change my rate anytime", news for you bub the could ANYWAY!!! The meter gives 30 mins updates on usage, doesn't dictate price, the screen you end up with is just info for you.

If they were to change the rate as it's units x price, they would have to show the change anyway otherwise the bill wouldn't tally, zero issue there either... I get it's old fashioned and many don't like change but it's handy to be able to work out your own peak usage and what you use per day, or if you have a BUSY day each week etc

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Eukonidor_Of_Arisia@reddit

Any technology with the word 'smart' in the name is code for technology which can be used against you if the need arises. It can be deactivated at the click of a mouse. Not a physical disconnection. It is invariably intrusive and collects private data on the user, which is not functionally necessary.

Any source which claims it is more 'convenient' is simply dangling a carrot for the simple minded to trade in their security.

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IpromithiusI@reddit

I'm more worried about the mole men personally.

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Malachite6@reddit

So many utilities just feel that they can happily ransack our bank accounts. I don't know why we aren't collectively more mad at this.

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treeseacar@reddit

What can't they have a smart meter? Suppliers are obliged to offer a smart meter now so every supplier will push it. As a benefit you would be able to monitor their usage and payment remotely if the relative is unable to do this themselves.

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Conscious-Ball8373@reddit

Isn't every supplier now required to install them when they replace meters? And meters have to be replaced every ten years.

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Frosty_Customer_9243@reddit

All suppliers accept non-smart meters. I have one in our house and have switched supplier a couple of times and none complained. One did ask to convert to smart-meter but couldn't get a signal where we live so after half a day of sucking teeth the technician put the old meter back.

If you have built up credit you can get it refunded immediately if it is more than a number of months, in our case the threshold seemed to be three months. Works better than reducing your DD. If you have recorded the usage you will know the annual consumption, divide by 12 and that should give you what you pay each month. Use these numbers to get the £600/month down to reasonable.

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rustynoodle3891@reddit

You can withdraw every penny of credit. They might complain saying you need to build up credit for the winter etc but it's not their choice. If they refuse change supplier and they have to refund it all. I recently withdrew £200 from my octopus credit, an automatic warning popped up but I just clicked "I'm sure" or something similar.

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rustynoodle3891@reddit

My parents moved into their bungalow about 4-5 years ago and changed it over to octopus and they don't have smart meters. Don't have any more recent knowledge than that, but last time I changed tariff (also octopus) the guy I was speaking to checked if I had smart meters before telling me the options. Worth giving them a call at least.

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Nkhotak@reddit

Octopus are fine with dumb meters. They haven’t tried to push us to convert and they suggested we reduced our direct debit when they calculated we’d end up in credit over the course of the year.

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Lau_kaa@reddit

We have non-smart meters and Octopus are fine with it.

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Legitimate_War_397@reddit

I work for an energy supplier and it is something we have to push, OFGEM does yearly checks on the amount of installs and can fine us if we aren’t near the target they set. As someone else said set up a DDV and then they will just pay for what they use.

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Colleen987@reddit

You’re better off educating your elderly relative on smart metres and how that would be better in the long run

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