Why there isn’t many expats going to New Zealand?

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ExcellentWinner7542@reddit

The entire UK has a total combined gdp less than the absolute poorest US state.

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Uncle_Richard98@reddit (OP)

Yet the quality of life doesn’t reflect that

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But if you want a decent wage, reasonable cost of living, opportunity to get ahead rather than tread water, see decent bands and international events, see places full of history, cities that don’t close at 7pm, a place full of interesting people who want to discuss ideas and take chances - NZ probably isn’t for you.

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chaosboy229@reddit

I mean, NZ has plenty of great history

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exsnakecharmer@reddit

Not really. I’m Maori and most of our shit has gone, the colonists came super late so it’s all pretty uninteresting.

Pretty awesome to grow up in. The amount of general freedom we have is incredible. Life is so laid back, everyone is chill. I remember being a kid and having freedom to roam with mates, without my parents having any fear/concern.

Compared to Australia, we also don’t suffer from anywhere near the same level of regulation/legislation. Road, alcohol, air travel, even fireworks laws are far more relaxed. Compared to most OECD/Western countries, we’re pretty unrestricted.

ACC is also pretty great. No-fault, universal coverage for injuries provided by the government. Covers medical procedures, counselling, dental procedures, lost wages, etc; basically everything. Means that we don’t have a personal lawsuit culture at all, which is such a relief.

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After-Improvement-26@reddit

Also nowhere near as many creatures of the wild who are able to kill you.

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Asleep_Bend_2158@reddit

Hah, there is that too.

End of the day, after living (and tramping) in Aussie, there’s not much shit in the wild that’s actually out to get ya. Snakes will do anything in their power to get away. Same with spiders. Dingoes too.

The international stereotype of Australia being “super dangerous” pisses me off now, especially from the likes of Americans. I’d be far more scared shitless in the American outdoors with bears, mountain lions, coyotes, etc.

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melanochrysum@reddit

I think living in NZ unlocks the nature in a way travelling does not. It is a stunning country and I love living here so much. I can go swim at the beach, climb a bush-covered mountain, ski at a good field, water ski in a beautiful lake, white water kayak, swim in natural hot springs, camp, and surf, all within a few hours of my house. You can never be bored here, and my employers have no issue with me taking spontaneous days to do these things.

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skamp33@reddit

Love this! I recently took my son on an impromptu overnight tramp (hike, for every other country in the world using the wrong lingo;)) up into the alpine high country, with the start of the track just a 10 minute drive from home. I went from WFH to being up in the hills in next to no time, because I just could. We could also be surf casting down at our local beach, or swimming at the river within a few minutes, or in the city within half an hour. This isn’t unusual in NZ and we totally take it for granted.

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Zardnaar@reddit

Kiwi here.

Its beautiful but a lot of kiwis do none of that.

Its a 4 or 5 hour drive for me and I live reasonably close. You get there and the areas full of tourists and expensive.

Most of the population lives near the coasts Still pretty buy not LotR pretty.

In recession atm, jobs are hard to get, high CoL relative to wages.

People in NZ love to chat, party, gossip, and find out your business. Retirement would be even worse. You’d be viewed as very rude here if you ignored friendly people/questions.

I suggest moving to the middle of a forest.

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Fanjo_mcclanjo@reddit

Lots of good things about the place too.

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exsnakecharmer@reddit

Yes, many of us Kiwis are genuinely so bloody lovely.

I just started a new job - I’d been there 2 days and they found out it was my b’day (I’d kept it a secret). People baked stuff, the lady training me gave me a really nice card…there’s some really caring people here.

Another lady at work made soup and told me about the process. ‘oooh that sounds nice’ I said to be polite.

Next day she brought me a big container. It’s not ubiquitous to NZ (I had the same thing in SE Asia) but compared to many other western countries there’s still a sense of old school ‘do the right thing and be kind even if you get nothing back.’

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Fanjo_mcclanjo@reddit

Full agree. Never met a kiwi i didn't like!

Unless you count the time Winston Peters tried to talk to me at the national field days and I told him "I may be a tourist but I am still familiar with your bigoted rhetoric!"

But yeah, peoples attitude towards work life balance is better, feijoa ice cream, Polynesian culture, the weather....

Also I think its much easier to be in NZ if its your choice. Locals may moan about stuff but when you move there through choice you look at it in a more positive way.

My family certainly do.

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exsnakecharmer@reddit

Okay, back in the late nineties when me and mine were classic pissheads (all young women) my friend followed Winston to the loo at the Green Parrot and put her foot in the door to stop him closing it in order to give him a right telling off.

“Go away, little girl” he hissed at her - deserved on this occasion in my opinion.

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SimpleKiwiGirl@reddit

Oh... Jesus... To be a fly on THAT wall!!!!

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Very interesting, thanks for sharing. Did you get the sense that the white people in Minnesota went out of their way to be friendly towards you? I’ve talked to some black transplants that expressed a sense that there’s a weird guilt at play in their interactions with black and brown people, different from other regions of the country. Like the racism they experienced was folks almost trying to befriend them for some clout.

I dunno, it could well be I just don’t jive at all with the culture. My wife is from California, and she fares better here than me or our son from Jersey lol. Jersey seems about as far as you can get from Minnesota culturally.

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bijoux247@reddit

Truly couldn't say. I'm sure there's the novelty of it especially in the small towns. I may be an oblivious person because the same people friends from my country of origin complained about racism or didn't like them were great to me. I totally code switch fast, so really have no trouble getting deep relationships anywhere. My current circle is way diverse and I actually don't know too many people now with my similar background.

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A long time ago now, but I grew up in NZ in the 70s. My British parents were told to "Go back where you came from." It was insular then, but has moved forward, albeit, it is still very isolated. I think if you were yearning for peace and environmental beauty it would be nice, but the politics are really up and down, and it has its share of challenges.

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explosivekyushu@reddit

Yes, now imagine Norway was a 4 hour flight to Sweden and a 24 hour flight to virtually anywhere else.

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nonother@reddit

It’s not quite that bad. Auckland to Tokyo is 11 hours. To Santiago is 11 hours. To Vancouver is 13 hours.

i dunno, i've seen more good live music in the last five years in welly than i saw in 20 years of living on the east coast of the US. everything from small local artists to big international acts.

plus film festivals, very cool art installations, a solid fringe festival and comedy scene... welly definitely punches well above its weight in a lot of areas.

it does shut down early, though.

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Simco_@reddit

If you didn't see all of that plus more on the East coast, that's on you.

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ElDjee@reddit

it's a travel/access issue. i'm not keen on spending hours in transit to catch a gig on the regular.

wellington's entertainment scene is way more accessible.

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Notimetobev0id@reddit

yeah lol wttf

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victoria_and_albert@reddit

NZ is a place with a lot of trade-offs and, as a culture, is extremely hard for outsiders to integrate into. I believe, on average, most expats leave after 7 years before moving on to greener pastures. I made it 10.

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twilight-2k@reddit

There are quite a few countries without housing crisis (but many do have a crisis to some degree).

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BlueCheese973@reddit

How would you get a visa that easily for Australia?

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StrangeTrails37@reddit

If they have been there long enough to become a citizen, a nz passport is essentially also instant aus PR. Same way an aus passport is instant nz PR.

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Tiny-Marionberry-819@reddit

Thanks for this. I get sick of the people in r/nz repeating at nauseum Australia is cheaper. It really isn't.

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SweetAlyssumm@reddit

I have colleagues who moved there from the US. The couple both got good jobs. They bought a house. They thought they were in their forever home. Within a year they were back.

They decided access to grandparents, the "tall poppy" syndrome, and lack of vegan culture were not for them. They have been happy since they returned - I think they saw the actual shade of the grass.

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Comfortable_Half_494@reddit

lack of vegan culture

WTF is vegan culture? How is it different to non-vegan culture?

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SweetAlyssumm@reddit

Vegan culture is having some vegans around, being able to easily buy a variety of vegan products, and at least a few vegan restaurants. There, I hope that helps!

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Comfortable_Half_494@reddit

Thanks! My daughter works at a vegan restaurant (in Auckland), the majority of restaurants have clearly marked menus that say whether dishes are Vegan or Gluten Free etc Hence I was perplexed by the comment about vegan culture, to my meat eating brain vegans would get along here just fine.

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Adept_Film_9351@reddit

Lack of "vegan culture" is hilarious but not wrong. People have this image of NZ as progressive and expect the vegan options to reflect that, but it's just not so. In my opinion it's a cycle of small and isolated market, few options, fewer people willing to go/stay vegan, food prices already too high and disposable income low, vegan businesses failing, and so on. Even a block of tofu is still pricier than it ought to be. If you're not prepared to settle for old-school pre-2010s style veganism / whole foods plant based and cooking at home 90% of the time, then I can understand being dismayed!

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wandering_engineer@reddit

It's a relatively small country with some economic issues and a very, very tough job market. It's also extremely far from everywhere. It also (as I understand it) has a fairly strict immigration system that doesn't have a lot of options unless you're moving there for work or marriage. Unless you're Peter Thiel apparently.

I think NZ sounds amazing and would move there in a heartbeat if the opportunity came along, but realistically you need a valid legal path to move there and have to be able to support yourself once you're there. And of course even expats usually want to be able to go home and see family on occasion, and NZ is probably the most difficult/expensive developed country on Earth to access.

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Comfortable_Half_494@reddit

has a fairly strict immigration system that doesn't have a lot of options unless you're moving there for work or marriage.

realistically you need a valid legal path to move there and have to be able to support yourself once you're there.

Isn't this the case for most countries who have an immigration policy?

Are you saying you can just waltz into your own home country without funds to support yourself, without a job and without a plan?

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wandering_engineer@reddit

"Support yourself" can take multiple forms. Some people are self-employed, some are retired and/or living off savings, etc. If you have enough money each month to meet any and all expenses and not turning to the government dole, you are supporting yourself.

I am just pointing out that there are further avenues open to immigration to NZ. Requiring a traditional employer sponsorship reduces the avenues available. NZ also has a points-based system like Australia and Canada that penalizes based on age, further reducing the possibilities.

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tamsunsun@reddit

My sister moved to NZ 20 years ago, from Europe. My parents, siblings and me have seen her twice in 20 years. If you go there you are basically leaving this planet.

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robh1540@reddit

Two things that put people off.

It's really really far from anywhere. So it you like travelling, it's a problem. Even worse than Sydney/Melbourne.

Second, if you like cities, New Zealand is not for you. Auckland downtown is really uninspiring.

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Familiar-Daikon-2878@reddit

Do you mean white migrants, because we have plenty, in fact English/UK are the largest migrant demographic here.

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jaminbob@reddit

I have numerous relatives /friends who went to NZ either a generation ago or more recently.

The secret is out now that the cost of living and house prices are basically as mad as the UK now. Although everyone I know whos lived or visited NZ talk about it as if its paradise still.

We seriously considered it back in the 00s as we scored highly on the points. Sometimes wonder what would have happened had we done it, but we just couldn't go that far from family.

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bigopossums@reddit

NZ job market can be very tough and is known for a degree of nepotism given the small population.

Of course your friend thinks NZ is great, they are also coming from a place with similar issues so it’s not as much of a shock for them.

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Uncle_Richard98@reddit (OP)

Ireland job market is quite good, in fact there’s no problem in finding jobs there (that’s why they need so many immigrants to fill the jobs), the problem of the country is the housing crisis, the public transport crisis and healthcare system.

In Ireland you simply don’t find houses available, and the ones you find are old as fuck full of mild and issues and they cost you almost 3000 euros (more than 3000 dollars) a month, it’s ridiculous expensive for the bad quality of the house, and it’s you against 400 people looking for a place to live, some with big salaries.

Then the public transport in the country is almost non existent, even Dublin the capital has very poor public transportation, it takes 1 hour and 10 min just to do 8km by bus inside of the city, the government is banning new developments of houses of having car parks because they want people to use public transportation but they don’t invest a single thing in public transport (there’s not even a metro or train from the Dublin airport you can only leave by car or bus).

Then the healthcare system is very poorly managed, Ireland is full of money in theory but the country is severely poorly managed. Is the same in New Zealand? I have the impression that NZ is way more well managed despite their own problems compared to Ireland.

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Puzzleheaded-Eye7180@reddit

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Odd-Huckleberry1719@reddit

Of course it’s not the same level. Singapore and NYC have been multi cultural for centuries. Ireland was a nearly homogeneous society until 20 years ago.

Dublin’s, and other parts of Ireland’s, population has changed dramatically, the fastest of any country or city in Europe or anywhere else for that matter. Dublin went from less than 5 to 25%+ in a quarter century.

JoLoremipsum@reddit

I moved from Germany to NZ almost 15 years ago. I love it here – especially compared to Europe, the people here are friendlier, the Kiwi lifestyle is way more laid-back, and I've never felt unsafe in NZ.

But NZ does have its drawbacks... the cost of living, the lesser healthcare system, and the isolation can make living here difficult – particularly for those on an average salary. My first few years here were tough financially – but I stayed for the lifestyle, the people and the amazing nature.

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raumatiboy@reddit

It wasn't that bad. It did not effect the whole country

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Aggravating_Ad8597@reddit

Barely made the news in Christchurch.

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Familiar-Figure-2048@reddit

A lot of racism in the work and renting markets. You'll have an easier time if you are white.

All of them?

So NZ is empty?

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melanochrysum@reddit

I know you’re being facetious but pretty much yes, all of us. I’m 25 and I have one single friend left in NZ, out of about 35 people. All my colleagues left to Aus. My old flatmates. My uni professor. My doctor. Of a certain age group and life situation we’ve lost our entire community, it’s a bit troubling.

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Maalikabok@reddit

I need some help explaining the economics of this. Since there are less people in NZ due to people leaving, wouldnt there be more need for expats to fill in empty jobs? Wouldn’t it make a desirable option for someone who wants stability?

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exsnakecharmer@reddit

Any skilled person good at their job wouldn’t take the wages offered in NZ. Not if you want to eventually buy a house etc.

So you get a lot of people who are simply desperate to move and are willing to undercut wages in order to live in NZ.

Reddit is regarded, NZ has plenty of net migration for work and recently also wealth migration. That the expats recently happen to be mostly Indian and Chinese doesn’t count for racist reddit who only consider Americans, Europeans and Australians to be able to expatriate.

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Zebra-Striped-Panda@reddit

Same reason you don’t see cyclists putting training wheels back on.

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heinternets@reddit

NZ has smaller population and lets fewer in so it’s a numbers game

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StrategyFlashy4526@reddit

I've seen reports of large numbers of New Zealanders leaving the country for other places, mostly Australia.

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Skinny1972@reddit

New Zealand's foreign born population is 28%.
Auckland is super-diverse with 42% foreign born.
It has had one of the highest population growth rates in the OECD for a few decades now with the high immigration rate, most of which is based on skills. Plenty of people want to come here, most can't because of the high skills/experience requirement.

Sweetie blocked me because she is just racist. Here are the facts:

By 2005, New Zealand had accepted 60% of the applicants under the Skilled/Business category that awarded points for qualifications and work experience, or business experience and funds they had available.[63]

Changes to the point system have also given more weight to job offers as compared to educational degrees. Some Aucklanders cynically joke that most taxi drivers in Auckland tend to be highly qualified engineers or doctors who are unable to then find jobs in their fields once in the country.[64] * * *

According to Statistics New Zealand estimates, New Zealand's net migration (long-term arrivals minus long-term departures) in the June 2016/17 year was 72,300.[74] That was up from 38,300 in the June 2013/14 year.[75] Of those migrants specifying a region of settlement, 61 percent settled in the Auckland region.[76] New Zealand's net migration for the year ending March 2020 was a record 91,900 people.[77]

In May 2022, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced that the Government would be introducing a new "green list" to attract migrants for "high-skilled" and "hard-to-fill" positions from 4 July 2022. Green list applicants would have streamlined residency pathways. This Green List seeks to address skills shortages in the construction, engineering, healthcare and technology sectors.[78][79] The exclusion of nurses, teachers, and dairy farm managers from the visa residency "green list" was also criticised by the New Zealand Nurses Organisation, the Secondary Principals' Association, and Federated Farmers.[80] In early August 2022, the Government acknowledged that it had not consulted professional nursing bodies and the district health boards about its nursing "green list" visa scheme.[81] On 8 August, the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment admitted that only nine nurses had applied for the Green List visa residency scheme by late July 2022.[82]

In addition, the Government also revised its student visa policy to limit the working rights of international student holders to degree-level students and above and prevent applications from applying for a second post-study work visa in order to gain residency.[83]

In December 2022, the Government added nurses and midwives to the immigration green list, making them eligible for immediate residency in New Zealand. In addition, the Government established a temporary residence immigration pathway for bus and truck drivers. In addition teachers and tradespeople including drain layers and motor mechanics were added to the work to residence immigration pathway. These changes came in response to a national labour shortage across different sectors in the New Zealand economy.[84]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_New_Zealand

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melanochrysum@reddit

Truly embarrassing when you can’t google. For anyone reading:

“Low-skilled migrants in New Zealand primarily enter through the Accredited Employer Work Visa (AEWV) system, often in sectors like hospitality, tourism, and processing, with some exceptions to median wage rules.”

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I'm genuinely scared of earthquakes. Not even for my personal safety, but potential damage to my finances if I have my home wrecked by one.

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Ambitious_Tackle_305@reddit

The biggest reason why I would never is because almost no matter where you are from, NZ is going to be super far away from your family and a really big effort to leave/visit. If you are from Europe for example, it would mean 3-4 flights and likely 24+ hours of travel.

Other than that NZ sounds great.

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Auckland is one of the most diverse cities in the world. Many non-white migrants have integrated and built sucessful lives there

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sprinklesadded@reddit

I moved to New Zealand! The biggest thing I hear from expats is around salaries and job progression. Most expats I've met in management or higher-skilled roles took a huge pay cut when the moved to NZ. People move here for the lifestyle, but that is becoming more challenging to sustain due to the rising cost of living, broken housing and health sectors, etc.

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Efficient-County2382@reddit

The scenery is stunning, the climate pretty mild, but otherwise it's literally one of the most boring countries on the planet, with some of the most boring people on the planet. It's very parochial, and a great, and safe, place to raise kids.

Lived here for twenty odd years. It’s stunning visually .

sleepyhead@reddit

Sounds like your friend is an immigrant, not an expat. Expats don't choose a country to move to, they are moved by their company.

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Fluffy_Fun_9814@reddit

I've read its the housing thats expensive and to build as well. Also hard to get certain products out there.

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attractivekid@reddit

my cousin moved there from the U.S over a decade ago. Got married, has two kids now.

biggest downside is how far it is from her family in the U.S.

next was cost of living and low wages

then lack of culture (relative to where she was in the U.S.)

— but she loves NZ and will be there forever.

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Kiwiatx@reddit

Because you can’t just pitch up, you have to have qualifications and savings to get started.

I left many decades ago along with a bunch of friends, most of whom returned with nest eggs from working in Australia and the U.K., enabling them to get onto the housing ladder whilst raising kids.

I’m moving to Australia in December. I knew I wanted an Anglosphere country so I looked at the USA first, but the visas available for my job (teacher) don’t really lead to permanent residency there. I actually had an offer that I backed out on for this reason.

NZ is a big gamble distance wise. It'll cost double to move to an island that's 4 hours by plane to the next nearest country, and beyond that anywhere between 8-17 hours flying.

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Philanthrax@reddit

because for the majority of the planet's population new zealand is at the end of planet and so far to relocate to and would require some sacrifices for someone from Europe or Africa and even Asia to move there. Imagine you're from Ireland or Morocco and you live in NZ, and some family member or a friend dies. You know how long and expensive the round-trip flight gonna be bro? you'll age 2 months extra than everyone else on that plane

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DifficultTerm-20@reddit

I think for a lot of people it mostly comes down to geography, salaries, and career opportunities. New Zealand has an amazing lifestyle reputation, but it also feels very isolated. If you’re from Europe especially, moving there can feel like moving to the other side of the planet. Flights are long and expensive, and visiting family regularly becomes difficult.

WeekNegative2609@reddit

Far and expensive

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bebefinale@reddit

No jobs

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No_Word_6904@reddit

All the people I know have either been to NZ, are there right now, or want to go. It’s probably the most popular working holiday destination in Czechia. We all love the nature and the people there. NZ is actually the place where I feel more at home than anywhere else. 🥹 Most people I know started out picking strawberries, and some of them eventually found decent jobs. But the job market seems pretty tough these days, and the time difference makes digital nomad work quite difficult. I mean, find me a job that would allow me to live there comfortably, and I’m booking the first flight.

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AmethistStars@reddit

Personally, I wouldn't want to live there because of the distance with the Netherlands. My aunt lives there though. There was a time when many Dutch people mass migrated to Canada, Australia, and New Zealand for economic reasons. But these days there is not such appeal.

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prancing_moose@reddit

New Zealand does not exist. It’s a myth.

We’re not here. We’re not on your maps.

Move along. Nothing to see here. Move along.

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tenniseram@reddit

I would love to move to NZ but job prospects in my field are limited.

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morokaiser87@reddit

It's a beautiful country with great people and I'd probably would have loved to move there when I was younger and I didn't have yet an established career. But today, I'd have to take a very significant pay cut to move there, and I'd need to deal with difficult visa situation for me and my family for the privilege. It's also too far away from everything. I like to travel, I want to see many places, and I want to be able to see my parents and my family at home more often than once every few years. So mainly economic reality, immigration rules and distance and isolation.