This was the crash my dad died in last summer
Posted by notactual6542@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 98 comments
This was the crash my dad died in last summer. I’ve been thinking about this preliminary report and was wondering what people with more aviation knowledge can realistically infer from it, or if anything in particular stands out. I know this can’t determine probable cause, just trying to better understand the aviation side of things.
Yoopergirl1960@reddit
My deepest condolences on the loss of your father.
No_Anteater_58@reddit
My deepest condolences.
Kaffe-Mumriken@reddit
Rest in peace old wings
OCFlier@reddit
I’m sorry for your loss. The preliminary report doesn’t have much to suggest anything about why the accident occurred. There’s nothing about the weather or the condition of the plane that would suggest any causes. If I were the accident investigator, I don’t know what I’d look at next. Very sad….
AmbitiousEconomics@reddit
I’d probably look at sudden medical event, just a tragic event all around.
kore351@reddit
Sudden medical event like a heart attack or maybe a potential vapor/fume leak leading to carbon monoxide poisoning is where my mind went after there was no read back. Coherent enough to hear and understand the instructions but not enough to control the aircraft after rotation. This would only be possible after an autopsy but idk what that looks like in an accident like this.
mohawk990@reddit
I think this is a valid theory. Not to be crude, but the autopsy might have discovered evidence of this.
GruntUltra@reddit
Not to sound harsh, but with the small aircraft still full of jet fuel when he crashed after only 20 seconds of flight, there might not have been viable remains to perform an accurate autopsy. My condolences to notactual6542 - I can't imagine going through this.
BabyWrinkles@reddit
The final page of the preliminary report suggests no fire? Or am I mis-reading that?
mohawk990@reddit
Yes, you are correct. While the report suggests a severe impact, I doubt there would a substantial degree of fragmentation of the body. Certainly not enough to prevent an autopsy, anyway. Plus, things that may suddenly incapacitate the pilot such as a heart attack or stroke leave biomarkers in the blood which can be detected post mortem even if the organs were themselves were unable to be examined.
Again, apologies to OP for the blunt explanation.
SeaMareOcean@reddit
It’s weird everyone is glossing over the weather here. It was IMC with 400ft ceilings. Taking off into low IMC is one of the top killers of even experienced GA pilots. Absent additional details weather and spatial disorientation should be considered one of the more likely scenarios.
Alternative-Log-1147@reddit
According to the report the aircraft never made it above 650 msl. 400 broken would have put the clouds at 800 msl, so he may have never even entered the clouds.
SeaMareOcean@reddit
My mistake, good catch. Spacial D is certainly still possible in the conditions outlined, but yeah I missed the MSL/AGL difference.
Eirikur_da_Czech@reddit
So, this is all just a bit of cursory investigation, but I found a piper service letter that came out in 2023, SL1315, that talks about inadequate corrosion protection in the elevator trim tab pushrods. Your father’s aircraft fell into the specified serial number range on the Service Letter. There wasn’t a strict timeline for compliance with the Service Letter, so I would be curious to know if it was accomplished on your father’s plane or not. The description of the accident sounds like the elevator was forcing the nose of the aircraft down. It is possible if one of the elevator trim tab rods lost integrity and collapsed it could lead to an imbalance of tension on the trim tab which could pull the trim tab up which would apply significant force pushing the elevator down.
This is about 15 minutes of investigation and based on my experience with similar aircraft. I am an A&P of 14 years. It could be other things. Other mechanical failures or health conditions or just plain mistakes. The NYSB doesn’t typically do thorough investigations for this type of thing. Unfortunately flying is dangerous.
Thank you for sharing this anyway. This type of thing is important to be mindful of.
willash37@reddit
You can see both the trim tab rods intact in the post accident pictures, he got disorientated and nosed it over
StPauliBoi@reddit
Disoriented and also you weren’t there, so keep the armchair confidence to yourself.
Torchy1014@reddit
That's a huge assumption. Maybe show an ounce of class/restraint in your post considering the situation? If it was that easy, it would be in the report, don't you think..?
Neoskizzle289@reddit
That could be the case, but let’s refrain from making assumptions like this. It still could have been a number of things.
Eirikur_da_Czech@reddit
Oh okay cool. I didn’t know photos were available.
flightwatcher45@reddit
Would a final report likely include this info and try to find records of it being done on this aircraft? Thanks! RIP
Newsdriver245@reddit
I would think so, NTSB investigations involve manufacturers as well as operators typically.
Yesiamanaltruist@reddit
It was so nice of you to spend the time to find this for OP. I hope you that. I’m sure appreciative and I don’t have any horse in this race.
Peepeepoopoobutttoot@reddit
So…. With Pipers not only can the wings just fall off but the trim can also just break?
SmokeMidKids@reddit
Hey, just to add on to what you said. I consulted the service letter. The serial number for OP's dad's Malibu was indeed concerned. However, this SL is only a reiteration of SB962 which is general corrsion inspection, dated from 1993. Most likely, if the aircraft was properly maintained, this was regularly inspected or actually changed for the sealed version that was not subject to this corrosion risk. However, the aircraft was 10 YO when it crashed, so maybe it was on the very end of the 2nd 5 years inspection limit, meaning the corrosion of the push rods might be the cause, although it's just as likely something else caused it considering...
SpartanDoubleZero@reddit
This is excellent investigation work.
Radiant-Month-1168@reddit
Any idea if he stalled or the engine failed?
oksinger19@reddit
I’m so sorry for your loss.
Any_Dimension6868@reddit
Im so sorry for your loss dude. I hope you find comfort in anything or anyone and do well in life :>
redfiretrucks@reddit
She's not a dude.
Any_Dimension6868@reddit
Okay...I'd still say the same thing.
Shoddy-Usual1070@reddit
Engine failure ruled out? Something forced to nose down I suspect possible trim tab failure
PhaseWhole6391@reddit
Very sorry for your loss. 🙏🏾
rotundrikishi@reddit
Sorry for your loss
youknowwhatihave3@reddit
jesus, a crater? god bless you man
Zealousideal-Mix5115@reddit
The man that crashed was abusing his wife and she filed a PFA against him, filed for divorce, and he killed himself.
notactual6542@reddit (OP)
why are you here?
Zealousideal-Mix5115@reddit
Unfortunately that’s what was stated in many interviews regarding the crash, apologies for being blunt and somewhat non-empathetic, their initial findings indicated nothing was wrong with the aircraft
notactual6542@reddit (OP)
also not sure which interviews stated it was a suicide…i haven’t seen one
notactual6542@reddit (OP)
well no divorce was filed i’d be interested to see where you saw that
yewey@reddit
You may not feel better ever but trust in time, your feelings will become easier to handle. So sorry you are going through this sir.
notactual6542@reddit (OP)
thank you, and i’m a ma’am haha
milnerq@reddit
The no read back for takeoff clearance stood out for me. Everything seemed normal till that part.
WankelFelix@reddit
Sorry for your loss.
Tin_Pusher1234@reddit
Sorry for your lost buddy.
Conscious_Passion_81@reddit
OP I’m sorry for your loss. I hope you get some answers. I seem to recall the NTSB does not look at these accidents. The aircraft manufacturer does the investigation.
redfiretrucks@reddit
That is not even close to accurate. She even posted the actual NTSB document. The aircraft and engine manufacturers can be a party to the investigation.
belltrina@reddit
I swear I saw something on Tiktok about this.
ThatBaseball7433@reddit
I’d be wondering about a medical event, the lack of readback on the takeoff clearance is very strange.
Very sorry for your loss.
Habsin7@reddit
I'd agree with that. Something distracted him or impaired him before takeoff. Was there a post mortem?
ThatBaseball7433@reddit
I had an arrhythmia that essentially caused me to have hypoxia. At one point my wife was trying to drive me to the ER and I jumped out of the car and was running around in the street. A stroke or heart event can leave you partially functional but definitely not 100% there and would be tough to detect in a post mortem.
No readback from an experienced pilot departing on an IFR flight and then a level dive just after takeoff? I’m definitely thinking medical cause unless an obvious mechanical failure is found.
FantasticFinance6906@reddit
I’m sorry for your loss. I hope you and your family are doing well and cherish your memories together.
FixergirlAK@reddit
I'm so very sorry for your loss. I wish there was something I could say to help you.
Maelstrom_Witch@reddit
I don't have any advice but I'm very sorry for your loss. I hope they find a cause for this accident.
kkcfi@reddit
Sincere condolences. There is often no clear answer as to why an airplane crash happened. It could be the something with the airplane or a sudden onset of a medical condition. Your dad loved flying and was very experienced. Know that he would have taken all reasonable precautions and whatever happened to have caused that crash must have been beyond his control. Sometimes fate is the hunter.
redfiretrucks@reddit
Sorry about your loss. Terrible. I'm familiar with this accident.
The NTSB preliminary report is more of a factual telling of the circumstances surrounding the accident. It goes over the information from the flight from all available sources, as well as an examination of the wreckage and condition afterwards. It does not go into the human factors.
I'm not going to go into your fathers issues, we both know them. The report did not include them because it was not factual evidence from the scene. The NTSB should issue a final report in the next few months that will take into account the circumstances the pilot was facing.
The report basically says that everything was normal prior to him taking off, and he failed to acknowledge communication from the tower when cleared for take-off and just departed. He never established radio contact with the tower or approach controller after departing. Shortly after departure, the plane nosed over and impacted the ground at high speed.
The information about the wreckage states that they were able to find all of the pieces and parts of the airplane in the same general area, and no parts came off on the runway or in the flight path before the impact with the ground. The plane was fueled and fuel discoloration was found in the crash area. Damage to the propeller shows it was turning at the time of impact, ruling out loss of power as a cause.
The weather was cloudy that morning but certainly within the capabilities of both the plane and your fathers ratings. The plane had a current annual inspection done in March, and all required updates would have been checked at that time.
Bottom line, probably not what you want to read, is that in all likelihood, a perfectly good airplane nosed over shortly after takeoff and collided with the ground seconds later with no obvious mechanical malfunction. The plane was not required to have any recording devices in the cockpit. In accidents like this, many times all the investigators can do is rule things out as a cause, and then the circumstantial evince can lead them to a conclusion. In your fathers accident, the NTSB is telling you that they can't find anything wrong with the plane.
notactual6542@reddit (OP)
i think i just want confirmation of what i already know is true…ruling out causes essentially does that. thank you for your comment
redfiretrucks@reddit
I'm so damn sorry. There is no easy way to process this. I hesitated to even comment and then realized you posted to learn what the report said and you deserved a straight answer.
notactual6542@reddit (OP)
i appreciate that. i’m curious, did you know my dad personally?
redfiretrucks@reddit
I did not know him personally, knew a few folks who did. 'm pretty sure I saw that plane around the field a few times, but I never had any interaction with him.
flonkerton1@reddit
My mom just died a few weeks ago along side her partner. It's devastating. I can't believe shes gone. Was in the prime of her life. Stupid fucking plane, I think I'm in the anger phase. Heart goes ok I to you
notactual6542@reddit (OP)
i’m so, so incredibly sorry to read that. i can 100% understand an relate to anger being a big part of grief
tiredbabydoc@reddit
I lost my dad last summer too. Sorry for your loss.
notactual6542@reddit (OP)
i’m so sorry, i wish you strength and healing💜
Practical_Owl_6775@reddit
I’m so sorry to hear about the loss of your Dad. As a controller, I can only say that it is strange that he never read back his clearance. This is highly unusual unless there was a radio issue with the tower.
CaterpillarMaster460@reddit
I caught that too. A lot of controllers will sort of “demand” a response to ensure two-way comms and if the pilot has SA at the moment. As an airline pilot I’ve heard plenty of controllers just doing their job by asking pilots to confirm a critical clearance (hold short, line up and wait, landing clearances especially)
CluesLostHelp@reddit
KLNS is a training tower for ATC, from what I remember. Not sure if that factored into the controller not noticing that no clearance readback was made.
happierinverted@reddit
So sorry for your loss.
I’m the father of three kids under 30, and I fly almost every day for a living. I’ve been flying all my adult life. I’ve had chats with my kids from time-to-time telling them that this is my calling; the thing that is a part of who I am and has made me a better dad. I tell them to try to find things that they love too, and that if the worst should happen to me to go easy on themselves. The thought of making them sad would be the tragedy of it all for me.
I’m sure that your father would have had similar feelings, and would wish you to go easy on yourself.
Thoughts are with you OP.
Apitts87@reddit
“The thought of making them sad…” I’m a dad of a young daughter and fly a lot too. This is the part that I really wrestle with.
Amy_Bony_Carrott@reddit
Very sorry for your loss.
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned this- perhaps they are refraining from speculation out of sensitivity. However you are looking for answers, so I’ll mention this.
This accident has the hallmarks of what is known as the somatogravic illusion. This is a well characterized form of spatial disorientation that can occur at takeoff when there is not a distinct horizon- at night or into a low overcast, such as in this incident. Physiologically the pilot’s senses can misinterpret acceleration as a pitch up movement, and the response is to pitch down, causing further acceleration and an instinct to pitch down even more.
I have felt this phenomenon on an instrument departure more than once. It is powerful and can catch any pilot out, regardless of experience or skill.
Of course this does not negate another cause for the accident. Trim issues often show up early in a flight profile. I hope the investigation ultimately gives you the answers you need and some closure.
glbetrttr@reddit
It could be spatial disorientation or stall. The final report will contain ADS - B data showing flight information.
zerbey@reddit
I'm sorry for your loss, and I hope when the final report comes in it gives you some closure. Take comfort in the fact he died doing something he loved.
SEKS-Aviator@reddit
Sorry for your loss.
ParkingOpportunity39@reddit
I’m sorry for your loss.
Rule_32@reddit
Hi, maintainer here with USAF mishap investigation training and experience in final review of multiple major mishap reports.
This prelim report is basically just the sequence of events or a timeline of the mishap. There's not much to be derived from it nor any analysis in it and any conclusion or suspicions drawn from it would be nothing more than conjecture.
Sometimes you can make a decently educated guess but this could literally be anything.
The only thing I could say about it is that its probably not engine failure related as the condition of the propeller blades and sheering of the gearbox suggest that the engine was still running and making power at the time of impact.
I'm sorry for your loss and I hope you can find some peace and closure in this.
SpartanDoubleZero@reddit
To be honest, without specific accident investigation training and even more importantly accident investigation experience and lack of being able to physically examine the aircraft and accident site, there’s nothing any of us could add here unless they knew your dad personally, which is totally possible because this community is small. But without specific accident that being said, without access to the resources and information the NTSB has, it would be extremely unlikely we could add anything without speculating. In today’s age of rampant confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance, speculation just muddies the water and makes it difficult for the facts presented by the NTSB to hold water.
Pretend_College_8446@reddit
Really sorry about your dad. I hope you find answers and peace.
Spiritual-One-683@reddit
I’m sorry for your loss.
dinomax55@reddit
Sorry for your loss
KirkieSB@reddit
I feel very sorry. 🙏 😢 May your dad rest in eternal peace.
Impressive-Cat-2088@reddit
OP I’m so sorry for your loss. My husband knew and liked your dad from the airport. From what I recall, they used to enjoy catching up on their kids, as proud dads do. Wishing you peace.
El_Hadschi@reddit
Sorry for your loss.
It is possible that he suffered a medical issue like a stroke or heart attack leading to an unintentional command motion.
Twitter_2006@reddit
Sorry for your loss.
mismatchedhyperstock@reddit
My condolences, I'm from the town over. The local media and rumors mill was relentless
star744jets@reddit
I join all the comments above. Amen .
DisregardLogan@reddit
Sorry for your loss
Salty-Passenger-4801@reddit
So sorry about your dad. He was a doctor right? I love very close to the area and I remember this crash (and the other crash in 2025 as well).
My condolences.
Primary_Scene_2167@reddit
I'm sorry for your loss
Primary_Scene_2167@reddit
I'm sorry about your loss
wt1j@reddit
Sorry for your loss. These things often have a rather obvious likely cause. That’s not the case here. Hopefully the final report will give you some closure.
VisibleOtter@reddit
A preliminary report is just that - an outline of the known facts of the incident. It doesn’t seek to attribute any cause to the incident; that’s the job of the next phase of the investigation, if there is one (I assume there will be). This will focus on the cause and will look into mechanical failure of the engine and control surfaces etc. it will also look into any autopsy reports on the pilot to see if there was any evidence of a medical emergency which led to the crash.
I hope you find some closure at the conclusion, and I’m sorry for your loss.
Budfox_92@reddit
I think the weather could be something to look at. Perhaps he got disorientated as he broke out of the first cloud ceiling at 400ft as he was in between cloud ceilings at 650ft when the aircraft pitched down with the next ceiling at 900ft.
If he had shifted his vision outside when he broke out of the clouds I think the possibility of disorientation exists.
Was your father flying regularly in IFR weather do you know and was he experienced flying in those conditions?
The weather being what it is was the first thing that caught my attention when reading the report.
This is purely speculative on my part and in no way do I know what happened to your father.
Sincere condolences to you, your family and friends.
RandomMongoose@reddit
Sorry about your dad, that sucks
WorthAd2097@reddit
I'm sorry to hear about your dad.
Redditor_throwaway12@reddit
I’m very sorry for your loss. I know from personal experience, how difficult it can be to read a clinical accident report involving someone you loved. I’ve a long aviation career and even with that knowledge, the pain and grief not lessened.
These reports focus on technical details and rarely provide the kind of understanding or peace that families hope to find.
It’s natural to look for answers between the lines, but sometimes that can lead to more pain than clarity.
Your father was an experienced private pilot who spent many hours flying. You can take some comfort in knowing that aviation was something he genuinely loved and felt drawn to. Flying was part of who he was, and he was doing something that brought him meaning and joy.
I hope you find what you need in some way.
illimitable1@reddit
There was no obvious error that led to the aircraft containing your father crashing. They will look more carefully at the various parts of the wreckage to see if some cause can be established.
lilmayor@reddit
I’m so sorry. I know you’re looking for something concrete about the cause. I wish you could have resolution, I truly do.
4Sammich@reddit
He took off and something occurred. Nothing that I can see from the prelim can be inferred. I suspect you are looking for closure or "a reason". It may not come from the NTSB.
Sorry for your loss. I've known many who have perished and it's never easy in any way.
latedescent@reddit
Sorry about your dad.