What are some of the most common stereotypes in your country about other Balkan people?

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NaturalBornSkeptik@reddit

What do Hungarians, Bulgarians and Romanians think on this topic? Do they identify as Balkans?

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Ok_Tie_7564@reddit

Quite funny and not inaccurate.
Here is the real, geographical map.

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

That’s definitely a Greek map too because it includes the Croatian islands & excludes the Greek ones.

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Ok_Tie_7564@reddit

I wouldn't know about that. Anyhow, here is a German one.

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iheartloud420@reddit

This map is so stupid why does it follow country borders for some but not others? In what world is dalmatia central europe lmao

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The map is not "stupid". On the contrary, it distinguishes between current political borders and what it calls "cultural proximities". It is for this reason that it puts Dalmatia (an ex-province of Austria-Hungary) in Central Europe. Similarly, it also puts Vojvodina (another an ex-province of Austria-Hungary) in Central Europe, but not the rest of Serbia which was, for centuries, part of the Ottoman Empire. Perhaps this is too complicated for you.

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bakariurin@reddit

the map just shows german territorial ambitions

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iheartloud420@reddit

It doesnt matter who controlled what 100 years ago, this should be purely geographic

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Ok_Tie_7564@reddit

Obviously, this is a matter of opinion.

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iheartloud420@reddit

Yeah and still even if u determine it the way you did then even central serbia is more central european than dalmatia

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bakariurin@reddit

it's funny how germans use old oimperial borders of germany and austria, but not of russia

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Anna_akademika@reddit

Lol, why is Eastern Europe so small on that map??

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Ok_Tie_7564@reddit

Why? Obviously, because the map does not go all the way to Ural Mountains.

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Anna_akademika@reddit

I meant putting in Central European countries that are clearly Eastern Europe lol

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Ok_Tie_7564@reddit

Clearly? That is a matter of opinion. According to the makers of the map, it is based on "cultural proximities" rather than on politics. For example, it is for that reason that they put Poland, a Catholic country, in Central Europe and not in Eastern Europe.

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Anna_akademika@reddit

Under what cultural definition is Latvia Central European? It’s historically Lutheran, not Catholic, and usually grouped with Northern or Eastern Europe

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Anna_akademika@reddit

I meant more for Latvia etc

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JRJenss@reddit

You didn't even have to say it's a German map, it's obvious. It's AU + the German Empire + the eastern lebensraum

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

https://i.redd.it/gnaqtje59t0h1.gif

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trisul-108@reddit

And even that is very controversial from a purely geographic point of view. The Balkans are not really a peninsula because the northern land border is way too long compared to the coastal sides. Some call it a "pseudo-peninsula".

Let's say pseudo-Balkan countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkans

"The definition of the Balkan Peninsula's natural borders does not coincide with the technical definition of a peninsula; hence modern geographers reject the idea of a Balkan Peninsula, while historical scholars usually discuss the Balkans as a region."

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Consistent-Sun-354@reddit

Eh, the Danube/Sava and the dinaric mountains clearly define the Balkans geographically and inside this region there is an insane amount of cultural overlap creating a strong macro-regional culture. After that there are the cultural extensions of the Balkans such as Slavonia, Vojvodina and Romania that aren’t geographically Balkan but whose people(and thus traditions and culture) are descended from migrants south of the Danube and Sava. In Slavonias case 1400s/1600s Bosnian and Hercegovinian refugees, In Vojvodinas case, southern Serbian refugees in the early modern period and in Romania’s case Vlach immigrants in the Middle Ages. Geographically these areas aren’t Balkan for instance but culturally very much so due to extension through historical migrations.

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DifficultWill4@reddit

Ancestors of Slovenes and its culture doesn’t come from south of the Sava river though. Their ancestors originally populated all of Slovenia and southern Austria and they migrated to this area from Moravia

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Hour-Promotion-2496@reddit

I never saw a Slovene mix up Slavonia and Slovenia before lol.

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Consistent-Sun-354@reddit

Never claimed otherwise. Slovenia is a Central European country akin to Austria, not Balkan.

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trisul-108@reddit

The Balkan region exists culturally, but it is not a peninsula and that changes the geographic definition to make the label ridiculous.

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RiverNo6782@reddit

True, its just as silly as calling france peninsula and france has shorter land connection to rest of europe than "balkan peninsula"

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Ha55aN1337@reddit

I agree with most of these maps.

We are all geographically Balkan. That’s just facts.
We all also have a balkan mentality. To different degrees. Even if Croatian and Slovenia don’t like it, they have a lot of Balkan mentality compared to Germany or Austria. BUT they do have Central European traits also, so it is a mix of both.
Culturally Balkan. Again, Slovenia the least, but still… Croatia similar, but more… and then you have Greece who is culturally Balkan BUT also completely similar to Italy and Portugal in many ways culturaly. So it is both.

All maps are correct to some degree and can be true at the same time. Even if you visit Hungary you can admit it is culturaly closer to Serbia than to Austria. And the WERE the Austrohungarian empire. The central europe kingdom. But are much closer to all of us than to Germany.

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Aggravating-Suit-480@reddit

Greece similar to Italy and Portugal because you believe in a united Mediterranean culture?

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Ha55aN1337@reddit

Would you say Greece has more in common with Slovakia or with Portugal? Even though Portugal is on the other side of Europe, yes I do believe that the climate has a lot to do with the culture. So Mediterranean countries or south Europe will share a lot of things (wine, fish, warmth, sea…) which lead to a lot of similar customs and traditions. They were all also easily connected by ship routes and had a lot of interaction. And share history (Roman empire)…

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dabears91@reddit

This is it. Slovenians are def the most north and have most in common with Central Europe. But their history and story is shaped by what happened in the Balkans.

It’s one large gradient. Reality is they are not truly western or central. They can cry about it and swear they are not influenced by the Balkans but reality it their nation story and building was with Yugoslavs. There is not other way around it imo.

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Ha55aN1337@reddit

I understand the sentiment that we were part of central europe for centuries and part of Yugoslavia for decades… but fact is, the last decades were more formative for us…

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riza_dervisoglu@reddit

And yet to be seen Turkey in Balkans! What are the number of your minorities of Turks after so many exchanges of population? How many Turkish words do you have in your vocabulary? There is no Balkans without Turks in there.

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CroGamer002@reddit

I have never met a Croat that claims we are Central Europe.

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No_Search7380@reddit

My brother in Christ that means you didn’t have geography as a subject in school, i distinctly remember it being mentioned in both my elementary and high school textbooks.

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azuratios@reddit

Not many where I grew up. The only one I heard was about Romanian women being very promiscuous.

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floare_salbatica@reddit

gif

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Checky_3rd@reddit

That's false for the most part. Here in Hellas, in 4 separate regions (Aegean, Peloponnese, Attica and Macedonian) all think of Romanians in terms of stereotypes as hard-working, and they tie the Romanians to the Phanariots Era in the 18th-19th centuries where they ruled the Romanian Principalities, and helped during the Hellenic Revolution of 1821.

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SmartFlyNR1@reddit

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

Baltics should be its own region.

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konschrys@reddit

This is the correct map of the Balkans.

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

Well….

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konschrys@reddit

Yeah I completely disagree with that. There’s no levels to balkaness. It’s a geographical area.

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

and?

I am "closer" (in terms of distance) to Cyprus than the Greek mainland.

(but, again, only in terms of distance - otherwise we're very much Greek, that's it).

so, even by the supposed, "geographic definition" we r NOT Balkan.

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konschrys@reddit

Islanders are not Balkan. Mainlanders are.

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

okay,

that's "acceptable"

(but Balkans here don't make the "distinction" at all).

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rewarrr@reddit

malaka go to any greek vilage and tell me if it's balkan or not, even the terrain and houses immediately giving balkan vibes.

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

next.

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rewarrr@reddit

Don't say "next." to me like you proved me something, you clearly was talking about GREECE, not Greek Islands specifically. Just say, okay my bad we move on.

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

I never considered Greece Balkan.

& I don't know anyone who does, outside online spaces.

so, yeah.

I'm sure ur the minority, in general.

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rewarrr@reddit

No offense here, I’m genuinely trying to understand have you ever left your island and been to any other place in Greece? Because putting me in a minority of factual thing is funny.

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

"have you ever left your island and been to any other place in Greece?"

yes.

other islands, capital, Peloponnesos, north.

I've actually never visited the Balkans, tho!

still, I like how u think I'm some "villager" cause I'm from an island. lol.

I'm fairly certain I've travelled more than u, globally.

& I was abroad for a decade.

I have family, and/or acquaintances, in US, England, Australia.

(actually, there's FAR more people originally from my island in these places, than in the island).

no one considers us Balkan.

Balkan is basically "equivalent" to Yugoslavia in Western Europe/Australia/US.

Greece is always considered a separate thing.

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UniverPlankton@reddit

mtacum ei du hay es

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rewarrr@reddit

Idk why you see it as comparison who is more cool and who travelled the most, your travelling to other countries is super irrelevant, Greece is a Balkan country it's a fact you can open books of geography or simply using Google and you will see it, it's not about your and mine opinion, and I didn't flexed on you, I ASKED you if you been in Greece, if you don't believe facts you can go to any place in Greece and compare it, the land, the houses, people, etc...

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Consistent-Sun-354@reddit

Depends on the island. It’s not some sort of own cultural cluster that many make it out to be. Islands like Thasos, Spetses or Euboea are just Balkan extensions with two of them literally having Albanian speakers. Rhodes or Kastellorizo on the other hand would historically be more in line with Anatolia and Cyprus so it’s a spectrum I suppose. Cyprus is quite outlying for Greek culture as a whole which probably has to do with the geographic distance from the Greek mainland and the Aegean as a whole. There are still common denominators between the Balkans and Cyprus though through shared history, religion, musical traditions and to a lesser extent related traditional architecture. Just far less than the Aegean islands that are genuinly very similar to the Balkans whether you look at music, architecture, religion or history.

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Checky_3rd@reddit

We can all thank our dear Ottomans for making it so "Balkan" style is so recognized.

Prior to the Ottoman entry in Europe in the 14th century, The Romaioi, culturally and traditionally were quite different from the other Balkan cultures, the only balkan cultures closely related to each other were Serbian and Bulgarian, and even then, the only similarities were their shared slavic languages and way of life. The Romanians, Croatians, Dalmatians, Albanians and Romaioi were each doing their own thing separetly.

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fosixbarbar@reddit

Why don’t they want to count outside of balkans?

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Sweet_Bridge_3001@reddit

Albanians are stubborn af, Bulgarians are disciplined and hardworking. Both are common stereotypes in Turkey.

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

Albanians are stubborn af

This is 110% accurate and it’s such a common trait, I must be a mutation that causes it, not just culture.

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WolandWasHere@reddit

How about the Balkans according to geography?

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konschrys@reddit

Bruh Greece is a Balkan country. I don’t get Greeks who reject that. It’s geography.

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lefm2@reddit

I don't think that anybody in his right mind in Greece rejects it. I would say though that there is a divide between northern and southern Greece with the Tempi valley as a limit. Greece above Tempi is definitely geographically balkan, below Tempi not geographically but definitely culturally. That's how people experience it, anyhow, to my knowledge. I don't think that any cretan feels balkan for example, although it's the only place along with parts of Albania that vendettas between families still exist.

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Early-Show2886@reddit

I would only call the eastern Macedonian and western Thracian parts of Greece the Balkans; everything else, and especially the islands, is more Mediterranean and comparable to Italy and Spain.

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Barbak86@reddit

And not only geography.

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Sad_Philosopher_3163@reddit

The maps are all wrong. For Serbs you forgot Egypt and for Albanians the rest of the observable universe. Croats are Goths #mitteleuropa #askhitler, and Greeks don't exist, since they are just a mix of Hellenized Albanians and Vlachs(who are Romanians, but who are actually Romanized Slavs, who are actually in turn Serbs that forgot their identity when returned from Egypt).

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JRJenss@reddit

I definitely had a goth phase, Sisters of Mercy rule!! 🤘

Oh...you mean the OG goths?? Uhm, yes right...Alaric, Odoacer and Theodoric the Great - our divine ancestors, our lions!

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Liquid_Ancient@reddit

Don't forget Depeche Mode.

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JRJenss@reddit

👍👍

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Barbak86@reddit

Sorry to be the one who has to be the party pooper, but these are maps of how we define Balkans, not of our territorial ambitions.

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Arbaces420@reddit

Is there a book about all this?

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Melodic_Interview210@reddit

It's all linked to the theory of the Schrödinger Vlach, Serbs are Slavicized Romanians, but Romanians are Romanized Serbs. There is a quantum state where both Vlachness and Serbness can't exist at the same time, and yet they do.

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Sandzakguy@reddit

I hope Jovanka will inspire some authors to write some crazy mythology literature

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Cefalopodul@reddit

Portugal is basically a Balkan country.

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Early-Show2886@reddit

I still don't understand the connection between Portugal and the Balkans.

How does the Portuguese mentality differ from that of Spain, France, Italy, and Malta?

What similarities does Portugal have with the Balkan states? And, most importantly, what are they?

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Cefalopodul@reddit

It's not about mentality but about development.

Portugal has roughly the same development level as the EU Balkan countries. That development affects behavior.

If you look at any statistic you will see that usually Portugal is at the same level as the Balkans.

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Early-Show2886@reddit

I understand what you mean, okay, thanks for the explanation.

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Then_Examination9715@reddit

The Mediterranean is Rome, whether European, Asian or African. IC XC NIKA!

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

Of course it is!!!

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tulum_peyniri_wowza@reddit

lol at which lvl does turkey get a highlight — the advanced pack?

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

Turkey doesn’t need to lvl up to be Balkan - it always was & always will be.

https://i.redd.it/6ndsooqy1t0h1.gif

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Early-Show2886@reddit

Eastern Thrace, the European Turkish part of Türkiye, with the provinces of Edirne, Kirklareli and Tekirdag, but Istanbul is no longer Balkan-like.

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tulum_peyniri_wowza@reddit

ah, i forgot for a second /s

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CriticismRecent6634@reddit

Bro turkey is the reason why Balkan is called that. The romans called it Illyrian Peninsula

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Slow-Hawk4652@reddit

where is balkans map from bulgarian perspective:) didnt fit the box or sth...

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Early-Show2886@reddit

Your question doesn't fit this Map.

a completely different context.

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Imaginary_String_814@reddit

adam und eva ? are you trolling

serbs preserved the first intergalactic meeting, here are first frescos of the meeting from andromedaovic serbs (space serbs) with the earth serbs in the decani monastry,

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thanasis87kav@reddit

By the same Rtrd logic, Switzerland should be considered Mediterranean because it's next to Italy despite being landlocked. Proximity doesn't work as a postcode in this occasion

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

well,

it's true - majority don't consider Greece Balkan.

I will say, Serbia is the one Balkan country that's viewed "favourably" generally.

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

But we are Balkans.

Do you really wanna be on the same region as the Spanish Inquisition?

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

Yes but she’s from a small island close to Asia. I’d say there are certain cultural differences between that area & the Balkans.

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

My family is from a small island close to Asia. We are still more like Balkaners than we are to Spain.

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

I agree, but I see many Greeks online who fight tooth & nail for their right not to be considered Balkaners, so I’m simply trying not to mislabel them.

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

Well this Greek argues we are what we are and it's good to be from the Balkans. Yes, a lot of our history is bloody, but we are also a unique combination of European, Asian, and African cultures.

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

the most argumentative of theios at cafes

We’re more Balkan because Albania’s coffee culture is even bigger than Greece’s.

and we are all broke as fuck

We’re also more Balkan in that department 😆

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low-sikeliot-9062@reddit

I agree with you but this map is a shitpost by the way, you can check the data yourself and it is all wrong

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JRJenss@reddit

African?? What am I missing?

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

Greece and the rest of the Balkans have a lot of African, specifically North African (mainly Egyptian, Moroccan, Ethiopian, and Sudanese) influence in our cuisine, history, historical combat weapons, and so on have been quite close.

But even just going back to the mythology, Andromeda was the princess of Ethiopia.

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JRJenss@reddit

Huh?? Morocco wasn't even part of the Hellenistic world. I don't get Ethiopia and Sudan either. What have we got in common with them for example?

Egypt, I can understand because it had been ruled by a Greek dynasty for a long time and the cultures intermingled.

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

You realize countries trade with neighboring countries right? And Greeks and other Balkaners are sort of renowned as sailors?

So for one, religion. Ethiopia was actually the first nation to become officially Christian at around 330 A.D. well before the Roman Empire or any other nation by a long shot.

Secondly, architecture. I'm not gonna go on a tangent about arches or distinct castle architecture, but you can see the distinct influence both regions had on one another. In fact, the Oriental Period of Greek history is named as such because of the influence Egypt, Sudan, and Ethiopia had on how people constructed sculptures and columns (and more!).

Third, cuisine. Coffee is originally an Ethiopia plant. Additionally, many staples such as the practice of stuffing vegetables is from North Africa. Additionally, many Balkan nations have dishes very similar to harira. We also share similar ingredients and techniques.

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JRJenss@reddit

Okay, okay...I sincerely asked, no need to get defensive. And while some of that is probably true - more so for Greece than Croatia, the concrete examples aren't very convincing to me. Religion for example is too vague and abstract. I mean Christianity is still, at least culturally, the main religion of entire Europe, North and South America, Australia, New Zealand...etc. Yes, a splinter sect of messianic Jews has influenced a large part of the world.

Secondly, perhaps you should've gone on a tangent about architecture, because it would've been an interesting example I'm really not familiar with.

Your third concrete example - coffee, is just like Christianity. I mean, it's not something inherently Balkan. What about Italy and France, and besides who doesn't drink coffee...except for Mormons? Here I would also like to know more about those food preparation techniques, ingredients and dishes we share. I honestly haven't a clue what harira is.

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

I'm not defensive just saying that there's African influence?

Trust me, I have an art history minor specializing in art conservation and Baroque and ancient Greek architecture, you do not want me to start ranting about architecture unless you want a total Ted Mosby situation.

But overall, the important detail is the adoration of domes and rounded archways. We also love carving into mountains.

Coffee is more of a staple in a historical sense in Balkans than in Western Europe because it was the coffeehouses where revolutionaries would conspire during the Ottoman Empire. Something something stimulants stimulate the mind.

Harira is chickpea soup. Pretty much all of us have chickpea soup.

As for food prep, we have very cold and complex cooking techniques to create bread and dessert items. Think loukomades, daba kolo, ligemat, and how similar these dishes are. We also share what spices we have used and if you eat cuisines from these regions you will see lots of similarities.

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JRJenss@reddit

Alright, I thought you were being defensive when you started with: have you ever heard of a trade between neighbors or something like that.

Cool information at any rate. Still, coffe bars are a staple of Zagreb, Ljubljana, Vienna, Budapest, Prague, Paris, Milan, Venice...etc. It's not only an Ottoman thing, because the trade between the East and West was much broader. Dubrovnik and Venice used to trade with the East too. Not only Ottomans either but all the way to India. However, you're right...the farther west and north you go to Europe, the coffee bar culture is less and less pronounced, people go for coffee but sit at the bar shorter than in the Balkans.

Anyhow, that's what I wanted to find out. Something specific. Again, I'm not familiar with the Greek terminology, so none of those meals are familiar to me, mostly due to the language barrier I think, because yes...we do have chickpea soup - in Zagreb we call it Eingemahtes soup - from German, lol! Turks, Macedonias and Bulgarians probably know more Greek or Greek has influenced them, so they'll probably be able to recognize what meals those are. I know that paprika came from the Ottomans.

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Thekid721@reddit

My family is from Chios

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

"close to Asia"

but still European.

I prefer"Mediterranean" tho.

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

but still European.

https://i.redd.it/e8aubknxzs0h1.gif

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

"we are Balkans"

no, Gree is not.

maybe US is.

& it's not "what I want" it's the reality.

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konschrys@reddit

The Balkans are a peninsula ffs. Greece is in that peninsula.

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JRJenss@reddit

Lol, Žižek was actually right...the more west you are, the Balkans always starts to the east and south of you....until you get to Greece - only the most obvious Balkans on the map, the only actual peninsula, but there the paradigm shifts and the Balkans suddenly becomes everything to the north and west of you! 😂

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

Croatia is ex Yugoslavia.

next.

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JRJenss@reddit

Well yes, it is. Do you think that's controversial or something? Don't know what Croatia being ex Yugoslavia has to do with Greece being Balkan tho.

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

"Greece being Balkan"

u implied that Greece is "the most Balkan" when in reality is easily the most different compared to all of its neighbours.

we really don't have much in common w/ Balkans.

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JRJenss@reddit

I didn't mean it like that. Greece just looks like it as it is most obviously a peninsula. You're definitely not the most Balkan...that would probably be North Macedonia and Kosovo, in my mind at least. The point is: Žižek's joke is funny because it's true.

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