In Turkey, banks and companies release ads every year on national holidays to honor Atatürk. This is my favorite one, it made me cry. Does your country also have national figures remembered in the media every year?
Posted by Empty-Pace-4228@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 165 comments
This ad actually contains many messages.
Grandpa says that they saw Atatürk, referring that there's a school that is being constructed in his village. Atatürk's reform of education and his work to bring schools to Turkish villages is mentionned. This school reminds him of Atatürk.
The old lady says, she saw Atatürk, when she saw that a sole plant is flourishing in the middle of the steppes. Referring the agricultural works after the 1923 Revolution. It's also an analogy of how Atatürk was like a tree in dry lands, giving it life.
Then we have a young girl doing gymnastics, while other is taking education to become a pilot. Referring how, thanks to the Atatürk, young girls coming from villages can go to school and obtain high positions.
The fisherman says he sees Atatürk everyday while fishing in the Bosphorus Strait, referring to Montreux Treaty, how Turkey took over the administration of the strait and became sovereign on her own territory.
0:26 - She says "steppes - bozkır"
0:45 - "... could shape her future by herself"
Good_Composer_8409@reddit
We don't have such ads in Greece as long as I remember. We celebrate when it's national days 25th March and 28th October. Otherwise no.
Available_Bus_9010@reddit
The Roman Empire had many of the greatest leaders in history. As a Turkish citizen who acknowledges the Hellenic Greek heritage of Anatolia, I would love to celebrate figures like Hadrian, Alexander the Great, Aurelian, Caesar, and others. What’s interesting is that Rome is also part of our shared Aegean and Anatolian history and civilization.
Smooth-Inspector-391@reddit
In Greece we don't relate to the Early Roman Emperors. I would say that the relation begins with Heraclius, as he was the one who changed the Empire's official language to Greek to align align with the language that was most commonly spoken in the Empire at the time, and then continues with the Komnenian dynasty and ends with the Paleologi emperors.
DimGenn2@reddit
What about Constantine I?
Smooth-Inspector-391@reddit
Why would we relate to Constantine?
TechnicianTimely2879@reddit
ezikliğe bittim.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
You commemorate who?
Smooth-Inspector-391@reddit
No one, we don't worship prominent historical figures they same way you do, even if they changed/shaped our country and nation.
We also have this sentiment of needing a "saviour" to rescue us from the difficulties we're facing, internal or external, but honestly this is not as prevalent as it was decades ago and nowhere near your level.
My Turkish friends are same as you, so I'm not judging or anything, it is just a different approach that is strange to me. Also visiting Turkey and seeing Turkish flags all over and Kemal's face almost on every wall.
In my opinion, only the people themselves can save a country. If i take my country as an example, we cannot count only on Kolokotronis, Kapodistrias, Trikoupis, Venizelos, Papandreou etc. Sure, some of their decisions were catalytic to our existence and our future, but at the end it's simple people like you and me that shape society's needs. What I'm trying to say is that change in a society comes mainly through the people changing their mentality, not through one person. These historical figures were just charismatic enough to grasp that movement and do something about it. But at the same time, they also did mistakes on the way, that again the people/country faced it as consequences. That's why I don't understand the need to idolize a person to that extent.
Again, not trying to judge negatively or something, just trying to explain my perspective and that of other Greeks as well and why we haven't done the same thing, even though we had historical figures of the same caliber.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
Κάνεις παρέα με εθνίκια .
Να φανταστώ κάνεις παρέα και με Έλληνες που λένε ότι η χούντα έκανε δρόμους και οι Πάγκαλος , Μεταξάς και λοιποί είναι σωτήρες του έθνους ;
Smooth-Inspector-391@reddit
Seculars ειναι τα παιδιά και δημοκράτες, οπως και εγώ, αν ηταν εθνικια δεν θα εκανα παρεα, ειτε Ελληνες ειτε Τούρκοι. Απλα εξήγησα οτι έχουν και αυτοι τον Κεμάλ σε περίοπτη θέση λογω του οτι συνέβαλλε στον εκμοντερνισμο της χώρας τους. Μέχρι εκεί.
Ούτε φασίστας ειμαι, ούτε αναπολώ μοναρχιες, δικτατοριες, καλα καλα δεξιό δεν με λες καν.
Διάβασες ολο το σχόλιο που έγραψα ή απλα έμεινες σε αυτη τη φράση και έβγαλες μόνος σου πόρισμα?
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
Ξαναλέω , Έλληνες που έχουν τους γαμημένους συνταγματάρχες στην ίδια θέση ή έχουν μη - ειρωνικά φωτογραφία του Κώτσου πάνω από το τζάκι τους κάνεις φιλαράκια σου ;
Ψηφίζουν κεμαλικό κόμμα ; Αν ναι , είναι εθνίκια . Αν δεν είναι , ψηφίζουν ένα εθνικιστικό κόμμα . Αν πάλι δεν ψηφίζουν κεμαλικό κόμμα και είναι δημοκράτες και seculars, τα αγαπητιλήκια με τον δικτάτορά τους είναι πιο red flag και από τη σημαία του κράτους τους .
Smooth-Inspector-391@reddit
1) Οχι
2) Το αν ειναι red flag ή οχι άσε να το κρίνω εγω. Και δεν θα κατσω να αναλύσω ή να δικαιολογήσω τίποτα σε σενα, γιατι προσωπικά στα αρχιδια μου η γνώμη σου
Μεγαλύτερο red flag εισαι εσυ που αποκαλείς φασίστα εναν άγνωστο χωρίς να τον ξέρεις και που λιγο αν έχει δει τα σχόλια μου στα διάφορα φορουμ παντα ειμαι αντίθετος σε φασιστες, υμνητες μοναρχιας, δικτατοριων και λοιπούς χριστιανοταλιμπαν με ακραίες αντιλήψεις.
Όλους τους χαρακτηρισμους σου λοιπόν σου τους επιστρέφω πίσω.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
Δε σε λέω φασίστα πασάκο μου, λέω ότι ξεπλένεις τα φιλαράκια σου τα οποία είναι εθνίκια.
Μια χαρά διάβασα όλο σου το σχόλιο , δεν χαρακτήρισα εσένα κάτι. Το πολύ - πολύ με το τους φίλους που έχεις και με το πόσο καλά τους ξεπλένεις , να σε πω Ariel 2 σε 1.
Smooth-Inspector-391@reddit
Το οτι ο Κεμάλ συνεβαλε στην μοντερνοποιηση των γειτόνων ειναι ενα γεγονός. Επισης ο εθνικισμός ειναι κατι που τους περνιεται εμφυτα λογω της σύγχρονης ιστορίας τους και του τρόπου μου μεγαλώνουν μεσα απο τα σχολεία και του πως γιορτάζουν τις εθνικές τους εορτές. Κάποιοι όμως ξεφεύγουν απο αυτό, έστω και σε ενα βαθμό.
Προφανώς και για καποια ιστορικα θέματα παντα θα διαφωνούμε γιατι ο καθένας εχει την δικιά του πλευρα που υποστηρίζει, το γνωρίζουμε και οι δυο πλευρές. Παρολαυτα εχει ακούσει η μία πλευρα την αλλη και πχ έχουν μάθει για πραγματα που εμείς ξέρουμε αλλα εκείνοι δεν τα διδάσκονται στα βιβλία τους (πχ διωγμός μειονοτήτων απο τους Νεοτουρκους ηδη απο το 1914).
Το να διαφωνουμε σε θέματα πολιτικής και ιστορίας δεν σημαίνει απαραίτητα πως ο άλλος ειναι σκατοψυχος και φασισταριο. Ουτε υποστηρικτές του Ερτογαν ειναι, ούτε παθιασμενοι με θέματα πολιτικής.
Τελος παντων, και πολλα εκατσα να αναλύσω. Όπως ξαναειπα, ολους σου τους χαρακτηρισμους σου, μαζι με το Αριελ, σου τους επιστρέφω πίσω. Και προφανώς χαρακτηρισες εμένα στα προηγούμενα σχόλια. Τουλάχιστον, οταν λες κάτι, own it και μαθε να εισαι υπολόγος όποιας μπουρδας μπορεί να πετάξεις
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
Και το ότι η χούντα συνέβαλε στο να χτιστούν δρόμοι είναι επίσης γεγονός.
Να μαντέψω ότι και οι φίλοι σου ξέφυγανε απο αυτό.
Apolitic . Νταξει,υπάρχουν και χειρότερα από το να είναι κανείς εθνίκι.
Ο μόνος χαρακτηρισμός για εσένα ήταν και είναι ότι οι φίλοι σου είναι εθνικιστές. Και ότι εσύ τους δικαιολογείς. Αυτά.
Smooth-Inspector-391@reddit
Δεν ξέρω αν στο ξαναπα, αλλα στα αρχιδια μου τι πιστεύεις
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
Δεν έγραψα κάπου τη λέξη ''πιστεύω'' , χαλάρωσε.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
No dictator in particular , thankfully.
Also , a bank ad make you cry? Wait for them to charge you double for account safety and card renewal.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Lol
Melitene1@reddit
All it makes me think of is how my ancestors were driven out of Turkey when Ataturk came to power. Saying it makes you cry is a bit much.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Sorry for that man
azuratios@reddit
Without meaning any negative with it, I think Turkey's reverence for Ataturk is pretty unique. I don't think there is another country that has a national hero figure so important as Ataturk. Maybe South Africa and Nelson Mandela? As Turkish can you think of similar figures in other countries?
HansDerVogel@reddit
Ataturk is a cult of personality in turkey. We had and still sort of kind of have this with Josip Broz Tito in ex Yugoslavian countries.
Melodic_Interview210@reddit
I don't have the impression there is much adoration of Tito outside of specific political circles, even in Serbia where poll supposedly say Yugoslav era is more fondly remembered than in Croatia.
Maybe in some parts of Bosnia still ?
HansDerVogel@reddit
Not necessarily today but the man was definitely a cult of personality. All biases aside about Yugoslavia as a country.
Sekalino@reddit
Maybe Lenin? Dude is still in the kremlin
azuratios@reddit
Eh, Lenin was forced as a national figure to many. Given how many of his statues were torn down after the USSR's collapse, it is hard to consider whether his "reverence" comes from the people.
venit_enim_ad_me@reddit
imho it is just that times changed, different figures get revered in different times...
Osman who led Turks in battle of Constantinopole was revered by Turks for 500 years, and is not nearly as important today.
Cults of personality stay or dissapear depending on this, in Croatia, cult of personality of Franjo Tuđman is stronger in 2026. than it was during his life (nearing the end of 90s, he was becoming increasingly unpopular), and stronger than in 2000s.
Sekalino@reddit
Yeah that’s definitely true although there are quite a few Russians with Soviet nostalgia that actually do revere him. But it’s probably nowhere near the reverence we have for Atatürk
validproof@reddit
Lmao dude they hate his ass. He's just there for tourism
Sekalino@reddit
That’s so fucking ironic that his body is used to generate capital now.
They should mount bro on a dynamo
Yarrrak31@reddit
North Korea
Janissaire7@reddit
retarded fuk as his nickname insists.
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Bruh
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Conditions of Turkey and North Korea aren't same.
Just because Kemalism is the official ideology in the curriculum, that doesn't make you North Korea.
patricious@reddit
Ibrahim Rugova for Kosovo
Ok_Profession_8471@reddit
In Serbia we got several scholars that greatly improved our literacy - Vuk Karadžić, and Dositej Obradović come to mind first.
Montenegrians have Petar Petrović Njegoš.
Melodic_Interview210@reddit
Па Његош је и српски лик, посебно у погледу књижевности и литерацији. Горски Вјијенац се читао и по целој Кнежевини Србији, Његош је штампао српски буквар итд.
XlAcrMcpT@reddit
Kim Il Sung in N. Korea, Lenin in former USSR, Mao in China would be a good guess, Simon Bolivar in Venezuela, Castro and Che in Cuba, etc.
Probably to the same insane level just Lenin in USSR and Kim in N. Korea.
Ok_Badger9122@reddit
Yeah Simon bolivar in Venezuela and Columbia is the closest comparison I can think of to turkey and ataturk.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
As somebody who lived in 3 countries, I confirm, wallahi it doesn't exist anywhere!
Bro, there's a TV Channel in Turkey called Kanal D, it was 10 November, the day Atatürk passed away, and Kanal D aired their street interview where they took people's opinions about Atatürk. There was an old guy in his 70s maybe, he was looking like a villager that came to visit Istanbul. While talking about his opinions, in the end he started to cry like a child and he said "Somebody like him will never come back!" it may be bizarre to you but for us it is not and even I cried while listening him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So8GvGeXVBI If you want, just check this too see the degree of adoration, these are children that go to elemantary school, this girl kissed the flag that has the face of Atatürk on it EVERYDAY while going to school and her videos from security cameras got viral on internet
SpiritedAddition8206@reddit
Wtf is wallahi? You are Turkish say Valla or Vallahi if you really want to. I don’t understand why you wrote it like this… you wouldn’t say wallahi in Turkey speaking with anybody.
azuratios@reddit
to his defense, I knew what wallahi meant but googling "Valla" pulls up some Diablo pages, lol.
SpiritedAddition8206@reddit
My comment probably looks really weird to you and seems like something that shouldn’t be paid attention to but considering it’s a comment under a post about Ataturk it is really ironic to use an Arabic word, a language phonetically and grammar wise completely opposite to Turkish and a reason why Ataturk had to change the script because Turkish was not compatible with it and nobody could read…
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Have you heard about our Martyr Ali Emre Fırıncıoğulları? He's an Arab from Hatay, speaking Arabic, a lieutenant who fell in Idlib. He was an ardent Kemalist, if he can be a Kemalist while having Arabic as his mother tongue, I also can respect Atatürk while saying wallahi.
Future-Actuator488@reddit
irrelevant comment. Every person, who holds Turkish citizenship and serves the homeland, is Turkish. regardless of ethnic origins or native languages, (both respected and noble). No differentiation.
SpiritedAddition8206@reddit
Abi Hatay 1939’a kadar Suriye’nin parçasi oldugundan olabilir mi? Hatay’dan falansan okay diyicem ama gidip başka bi şehirdensen allahını seversen ne anlatiyosun ya
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Atatürk'ün bana verdiği özgürlüklerden biri de kendimi istediğim gibi ifade edebilmek, ben ingilizce konuşurken Arapça terminolojileri olduğu gibi kullanıyorum bu da benim kendimi ifade etmem.
Future-Actuator488@reddit
duyar kasmışsın. (sorry don't know how to translate it, not sure if any translation exist)
azuratios@reddit
Ok, yeah it makes sense with the context.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
In english, word Wallahi is written with W not with a V.
SpiritedAddition8206@reddit
“Wallah or wallahi” is not english to begin with so you are writing a language you 99% don’t know or understand in a text you probably don’t know unless you somehow know arabic. As you know we say Vallah.
Nathmikt@reddit
Vasil Levski for Bulgarians.
Archaeopteryx111@reddit
A cult of worship comes from a very specific kind of culture where servility adores and bows before autocratic leaders. It doesn’t end well even if the beginning is good.
harryweins@reddit
Colonialist bullshit. Zero scientificity. There’s no such thing as a monolithic culture. But our tiny brains would like to believe it because it is all it can manage. We easily recognize every bit of diversity in our smallest friend circles (ingroups) and then fall into the pitiful trap of categorizing millions of people under umbrella terms (outgroups). The person who explained this human bias won a Nobel years ago. Check it out. And remember: brains need updates too.
Few_Winter_3453@reddit
Lee Kuan Yew for Singapore, maybe? But I would agree it's pretty unique.
azuratios@reddit
Actually I agree. That's a very similar case.
Tonyukuk09@reddit
For real he is unique. Because he was not only a founder. Before everything he was a savior. A war hero.
For us the Great War did not last only 4 years. It lasted almost 10 years. Starting with Tripoli. Then the First and Second Balkan Wars. Then World War One. Then the Turkish War of Independence. He entered this struggle when he was very young. Around 21 I believe. And in the end he saved the nation. Normally this alone is enough to make someone legendary.
And usually war heroes become dictators after wars like this. Or they rule with very harsh methods. But Atatürk instead built a modern country that was compatible with the new world.
Also its important mention that modernization in Türkiye did not actually start with Atatürk. But in many ways it reached its peak with him. Even before Atatürk Ottoman sultans were trying to modernize the empire. Historians usually date the beginning of this process to Selim III around the end of the 18th century. After that almost every Ottoman ruler tried reforms and modernization. They achieved many things but it was never enough to save the empire.
What makes Atatürk extraordinary is that he achieved in only 15 years what had been attempted for more than a century. And when you come to Türkiye today you can clearly see that this transformation was successful.
And the success was not simply westernization. That is the important point. What Atatürk really did was give a nation an identity. Ottoman modernization sometimes looked more like imitation of the West. But Atatürk’s vision was domestic and national at the same time. That is why his influence is still so powerful today.
CrumpledKiltSkin@reddit
Wasn't Ataturk gay?
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Lol
FatherMozgus@reddit
The Pontic Greeks were probably also crying during their genocide
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Oups... 🫠
AntiLiban@reddit
Love that woman pilot giving us a callback to Atürks adobted daughter Sabiha Gökçen who was the first female bomber pilot in the world, who heroically used her skills to massacre Kurds.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Rebels*
Ataturks second in command and his adopted son Tuncak was Kurds.
He destroyed those revolted against Turkey and accepted those who wanna join.
-MrAnderson@reddit
Great as indeed, but the adoration to Kemal's icon reaches cringe-worthy levels in Turkey.
Which is unfortunate, since he'd prefer a proper democracy without depending on idolizing a single person for its survival.
dontneedit000@reddit
In Türkiye, you can't find a middle ground on anything; you're either a fanatic to the death or a staunch hater, and these two sides try to provoke each other, resulting in terrible people who idolize our fathers—the very people we should be emulating and following—and hate them to death despite everything they did.
GeraldBot@reddit
It's the common ground for people who oppose Erdogan and backward islamic/tribalistic way of governing. (erdogan was not a singular case as you can guess for the turkish political scene)
It's more of an idea than a person.
Ok-Guitar-6553@reddit
orerca@reddit
Dictators mainly understood to use power to prosper themselves and their close circles.
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, used that power to convert country into secular democracy. Power through distributing and giving away. Nearly a century later, people still realize how big of an hearth, and exquisite personality he had.
Ok-Priority253@reddit
No, this is very cultish and concerning. We didn't even have this with Tito after he died.
Temporary-Check-1507@reddit
Wow sorry to say turk bros but my god this is some level of metaxas propaganda. I mean i get it but this ad truly does convey different messages than Ataturk would want. From my understanding he was a republican man that hated religion and wanted for turkey to be a western democracy. This Deification of him would be despise by him. 2nd Ataturk famously said peace at home peace to the world but see this ad that says "heroic" soldier. Turkey is currently involved in many conflicts right now i wonder how he would feel about some of them......
I want to conclude that i wish turkey just actually followed what he said and not be like the evangelicals of the US
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
For Syria issue, Atatürk would 100% bé okay with toppling Assad and prevent YPG to establish a Kurdish state in the borders.
For the rest, it is unclear, he'd be different than Erdogan that's for sure.
This is a commemoration and it gets people emotional, I don't see what's bad about it.
SuedeJacketMonster@reddit
Can't believe you cried to this cringe
greenest_alien@reddit
I wonder how much of a political issue is women's hair covering or lack of it in turkey, since somehow it feels to me like it is made a point in the commercial. But maybe I am projecting.
Hungry-Specific5600@reddit
TLDR is, most instutions didn't allow anything islamic in them just like in France (since the whole thing was inspired by them) for the longest time with universities being the most well known example where female students were expected not to wear a hijab.
This might seem tyrannical to you but the idea was to limit the influence of backward ideologies on what was meant to be a place of learning. It was absolutely warranted in my humble opinion since after the law stopped being enforced under Erdoğan, islamists have indeed infiltrated universities and done basically what kemalist "propaganda" said they would do like creating student clubs which are often called "medeniyet kulübü" (civilization club, ironic I know), supporting pedophilia, terrorism, corruption in grades and in internships, banning social events to preserve "common decency" etc.
The funniest part is, those women wouldn't be studying in a university without the kemalist regime which they claim oppressed them. They would be married off to their cousin and not even be literate, which is how it was for most women before. Talk about being ungrateful and dumb
mylk43245@reddit
Do you feel like viewing things in this way is why ataturk policies regarding religion have seemed to completely collapse the first time a government stronger than the military has existed. Like at the end of the day it’s just bad/short sighted policy it was implemented for 4 decades and didn’t do anything to truly restrict it
Also the EU will never allow turkey into its club it will always have to look east rather than west unless it’s willing to give up its disputes over Cyprus something which successive governments have kept up.
Hungry-Specific5600@reddit
Two things. One, I don't give a damn about the EU nor does this have anything to do with sucking up to them or whatever. Two, laicism worked well enough that Turkey right now, even under the influence literal CIA assets is one of the most socially progressive places in the Middle East, Balkans and the Caucasus. Women are their own people, people can get married to whomever they want and get divorces, there is rule of law, people can get education, Turkish culture is at the forefront (the Ottomans were horrible at this) and it goes on and on. Even with people in charge who are hell-bent on destroying his legacy, it survives because his ideas are timeless whether you like it or not.
mylk43245@reddit
But isn’t that the issue as far as I know Erdogan was first elected in a free and fair election.
The EU of course matters because if you have to align eastwards then secularity becomes more of a negative than a benefit which is what has caused turkey to move in this direction
You literally support a law to restrict people’s freedom of choice and then you are surprised that those people decided to vote for someone like Erdogan.
I’m not fighting for him I’m just saying that going towards the ban everything Islamic (and also ignore large parts of Turkish history) just hasn’t, doesn’t and won’t work.
As a leftist arguments like this remind me of friends who live in like central London and are surprised that the guys living in villages and towns do actually like their religion and their history. Compromise is always necessary in a successful large state
Hungry-Specific5600@reddit
Erdoğan was literally part of a group of islamist fundamentalists supported by the US whose sole purpose was to turn Turkey away from Kemalism. Nothing about those elections were neither free nor fair, foreign intervention is literally textbook electoral fraud.
The point of social reform is not to suck up to certain countries who may or may not be all that relevant in the future. The point of social reforms is to make the country a better place to live. There is no compromise to be had between Islam and modern societal values, Islam is fundamentally incompatible with it. Christianity only became "compatible with secular liberal values" or whatever when it stopped being the law of the land and became mostly relegated to traditions, holidays and overall just something you look back to. It was a gradual process of the people fighting back against organized religion by translating and distributing the Bible, making prayer and scripture available in their own languages and thus reducing the power of the clergy.
The exact same thing was attempted with Islam. Atatürk literally had the Kur'an translated and distributed as one of the first things that he did. He also made the call to prayer Turkish. The local sheikhs and cult leaders HATED HIM for this and riled up everyone that they could to have it changed back. He also abolished the caliphate entirely and started using the state to control the religion and guide it into being something more akin to what you were talking about, something that you remember around the holidays and not something that tries to control everything all the time with no compromise
mylk43245@reddit
Ok if your Turkish you will definitely have better arguments than me. But I do have Muslim cousins and family and the kind of Wahhabism practiced is bad I agree with this
But on your last point there’s loads of countries who are Islamic without the for a lack of better word craziness. Places like Senegal , Indonesia etc. I as an outsider think that post ataturk the way the state moved against religion was too aggressive and lead to the current situation
Also before your too demoralised by the current state bear in mind that Europe had some of the most deadly wars ever as they began to turn more secular so turkey in comparison has still done incredibly well.
filisterr@reddit
That's a very good point. But you know all those authoritarians are scared of the education, because dumber population is easier to blindly follow you and will never question your authority.
This is standard tactic seen in a lot of countries with authoritarian regimes.
AST360@reddit
believe it or not Erdogan was (and still is by some) viewed as a "liberator of women" by unbanning hijab in public instutituons.
ahmet-chromedgeic@reddit
I mean, yes, I do believe it. Banning women with hijab from going to university or working in public institutions is quite harsh.
ZlatanD@reddit
its a tool used by islamists to repress women, so no i wouldnt say its harsh
Janissaire7@reddit
that was a retard named kenan evren from 80's. not atatürk. evren is the reason why islamist come to power now.
Kuru-Uzum@reddit
In addition to what my friends said, people generally use "tulbent" (a type of headscarf). However, the head covering called "turban" has been exploited for political purposes.
Sabeneben@reddit
Dude, this is a pretty shitty and messed up topic.
I don't think anyone would want to explaining this, but there's some truth in your comment.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
After 1980 Coup it was banned, before it was restricted but it wasn't officially banned, Erdoğan abolished the ban which made him very popular.
Today, being hijabi is really not a factor on being a Kemalist or not, my grandma is a huge Atatürk admirer yet she has hijab.
LeDEvRo@reddit
I bet lots of Germans feel the same way for Adolf ..although they cannot say it publicly
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Lol
thanasis87kav@reddit
Forgot, I haven't pissed at his house today.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Oups... Well...
Seeing this from you reminds me an anectode actually.
One day, while Atatürk was attending a ball at the Çankaya Mansion, he noticed a young blond man among the guests staring at him with hatred. It was a Turkish-British Friendship Ball. Atatürk called one of his aides and told him to ask the man what his problem was. When the aide returned, he explained that the man came from a diplomatic family and that his father had died at Gallipoli, and that he had carried this resentment throughout his life.
Without losing his composure, Atatürk replied: ‘Ask this young man what his father was doing in Gallipoli in the first place.’ Unfortunately, the Greeks tried to carry out their own reconquista and failed. The result was that around 1.5 million Greeks were killed or expelled.
I wish they had never tried to take our western coasts from the beginning so that none of this would have happened to them. But they tried and failed; if you are man enough to try, you should also be man enough to face the consequences. I hope this tragedy serves as a reminder for them never to attempt the same thing again, that they remember what happened the last time they tried and learn from the past, because that is what history is for.
thanasis87kav@reddit
Yeah, right. Why is it such a taboo still in Turkey to speak about his homosexuality and alcoholism?
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
We speak about his alcoholosim, but hé wasnt homosexual
Archaeopteryx111@reddit
Uhhh, the Russians would have taken Constantinople multiple times in the various Russo-Ottoman wars without British/European help.
War is coming back brother. It is unclear who will be on what side in the end, and who will win.
Fiery_Flamingo@reddit
Turkish foreign policy in Ataturk’s time was to build bridges. Treaties like the Balkan Pact and Saadabad Pact were defensive pacts guaranteeing the post-WWI borders of nearby countries and assurances that Turkey would not try to re-conquer/re-invade its neighbors.
Ataturk’s position during his tenure was to defend Turkish territory and sovereignty, and respect the territorial integrity of its neighbors.
His plan at the end of WWI/beginning of Turkish war of independence was to capture the territories that are basically modern day Turkey, and stop there.
His most fundamental position in 1930s was in his words “*peace at home(land), peace in the world*”, signaling that Turkey is no longer interested in being an imperial power, instead it was focusing on becoming an industrialized, social-democrat nation-state.
His policies were kept in place after his death in 1938. His successor Inonu, who was also a commander during 1911-1923 wars, kept Turkey out of WWII by diplomacy and political maneuvers.
Turkey became a multi-party democracy in 1946, and the government was taken over by anti-revolutionary politicians in 1950s (basically a proto-Erdogan), which led to many problems current day Turkey has.
Still, “peace at home, peace in the world” (which is often non-interventionism) is a very popular policy in Turkish politics. During Erdogan’s first decade, Turkey had almost no military presence outside its borders. Turkey even declined to participate in the second invasion of Iraq despite economic promises and threats from the US. It was one of the very rare moments where Erdogan’s party voted against him.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
You're right only God knows the future.
My consciousness is very clear and calm, knowing we were not the ones who attacked first in the 1919-1922 Greco Turkish War.
Archaeopteryx111@reddit
But all the Balkans remember the Ottomans and are suspicious of Erdogan’s rhetoric. Can you believe he went to Serbia to get business deals and talked about how good the Ottomans were? Romania, Poland, Greece and Ukraine are investing vast amounts of money into their militaries. Better safe than sorry.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
"Better safe than sorry." in what sense?
I assume that "We should attack Turkey before Turkey attacks us".
Well Idk I'm not a general, if Israel makes a move there's a possibility that NATO gets involved, Israel needs young lads to fight their wars so Balkan countries might be a good candidate.
However, I also believe that Turkey has enough deterrence and war in 2026 is very difficult even for major powers like Russia or USA, so I personally don't presume an invasion, but if let happens, let the best one wins. If we win, we'll do what we have done in 1922 again.
Archaeopteryx111@reddit
No attacking first, just deterrence, which leads to mutual friendship 😉.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Well, my philosophy is co-operation is always better than conflict. As long us a group offers me or my people their friendship, I'm willing to accept and improve relations. I don't see any reason for not to ally with Romania.
Archaeopteryx111@reddit
I don’t see any reason not to cooperate with Turkey either. 😉
Fiery_Flamingo@reddit
In 1922 after the Greek invasion failed, he went to Izmir. The governor put the Greek flag on the steps of the city hall, citing a Greek general had done the same thing with Turkish flag. He reportedly stopped and said that a flag is the symbol of a nation’s honor and ordered it removed instead of stepping on it. He later codified this approach. Turkish law explicitly prohibits insulting the symbols of foreign states.
After the reconciliation efforts in 1920s and 30s, Greek Prime Minister Eleftherios Venizelos nominated Atatürk for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1934.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
The symbol of a nation's honor are its people.His troops and his lapdog, Nuredin, literally sacked the Armenian and Greeks quarters of the city.What kind of honor are we talking about here?
Besides, this "flag incident " is most probably a myth.
Donald Trump was nominated for a nobel. Barack Obama was nominated for a nobel. Hitler was nominated for a nobel.
It's called politics for a reason, you know. Damn , I swear a North Korean sucks the Kim Sung Ill balls less than you Turks do with your beloved dictator.
thanasis87kav@reddit
He's a fucking corpse now, isn't he? And I have taken a piss at his house before just for thr lols
Objective-Expert771@reddit
you are not genocided enough
Annual_Jackfruit2892@reddit
I dont get this persona worship... Why do Turks behave like north koreans? please think about this. You talk and cry , grandiose stories about this person(which was the poster boy ,one of many) Its like seing A similar situation to North koreas Kim Jong Un or his father\grandfather. You worship this mans picture, talk about him to others. Are shocked when others dont see Ataturks magnificene. I remember this turkish girl, she told me she was crying in happyness. I asked her why? she had thoughs how Ataturk could see the future...what an amazing man. how can one explain this behaviour? its like a mass mental health problem for turks.
Sorry if this is insulting, i find Turks ok, and politicians did some smart moves after the turkish state was established. Im just trying to see if you persons can understand my perspective.
In Norway i would never talk like this about the king, or any person in history. I know there are many different people that got us where we are today. Norwegians still have nationalistic tendencies.
Why do not Greeks behave like this Turk way of functioning,
Venizelos was Ataturks counterpart and did many positive things for Greece and later long lasting peace. While the German king brought catastrophy. Greeks dont seem to worship Venizelos, and almost no one mention these kinds of people to me like turks do to everyone.
Greek revolution 1821, there are heroes. But very few talk about these all the time, and the state even arested and killed some of them afterwards or others just got assasinated.
Italians also have some very significant figures, but no.
French have Napoleon, but i have yet to hear someone talk about him daily and cry about how magnificent he was.
I personaly think it is the Turkish educational system, something is very wrong....
urhiteshub@reddit
It really is funny the way you put it. I've known quite a number people who have a pic of his as a wallpaper, or a poster in their workplace, or a small flag, apartment where I used to live had a giant relief of him on the street-facing side, I had a teacher whose ties had Ataturk design, our new ballistic missile or whatever it is, had Ataturk's signature on it, Ataturk or Ataturk's signature stickers are very popular on cars as well, there are Ataturk pens, Ataturk notebooks, Ataturk calendars, Ataturk mugs, schools, streets, hospitals, dams, random things named after Ataturk everywhere. Those small towns which he visited have museums, or "Ataturk Houses" of wherever he stayed the night.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Hey! Well, every nation has their weaknesses and strong sides. I also agree that we Turks are tend to worship our leaders more than the others.
But I also want to emphasize on one subject: The change that Atatürk caused in Turkey are not comparable with the figures like Napoleon, Washington, Lenin etc had on their countries.
If Atatürk didn't do 1923 Revolution and the rest, Turkey today would really look like Afghanistan.
Geography is very similar, after Sevres, we only got 150,000 km2 of land in inner anatolia which was basically steppes. And the philosophy is similar, many people think Turks are more moderate Muslims because of their school of thought but no, it is the revolution who caused this, Turks and Afghans are Hanafi-Maturidi, the same sect of Islam. If Atatürk didn't exist, Turkey would remain a UK puppet monarchy as big as Jordan in Inner Anatolian steppes, as soon as UK retreats, the clergy would have seized power.
Americans would still live in not bad/moderate standarts as a British colony, as we can see in Australia. But without Atatürk, Turkey would be in a severely bad situation. Anatolia was in stone age, people were dying from basic diseases and agricultural technology was none. Atatürk crushed every single army that demanded land from Turkey and regained 800,000 km2 of land. He reminded a beaten nation that they can be glorious once again. He united us and with 15 years of reforms, he took a country like Afghanistan and improved it vastly, in 1965, Turkey had 7% of annual economic growth, very close to Japan. Without his achievements, we wouldn't really be there.
Greeks who are ready to revolt against the Ottomans can always be found, a man like Atatürk is very rare.
Annual_Jackfruit2892@reddit
thanks for your perspective and explanation. You are very well informed on the diferent perspectives. I do hope the persona worship level many live by goes down to a more healthy8 level.
Like you say the events that came surely were a shift for country, after the ottoman admin.(alied of pre-nazi germany) brought catastrophy.
Just like the allies-Greek goverment messed up later during the asian minor catastrophy.(during almost a civil war between the king and removed ministers) And was used as tool of other powers, 5england like you say.
Afterwards all this chaos what is interesting is that the Population exchanges in The regions were largely based on religion which seems even more absurd, today.
The newly formed Turkish leaders did good moves like you say and the country went very forward. Im not disputing the smart m82oves which avoided turning Turkey into a islamist chaotic society. It was more westernized, secularity that came and the language reform is a great example of this. Population exchanges did make Turkey even more european.
As i understand Ataturk is a very important figure which children learn about from very early, but as i understand any negative behaviour will get you socialy exluded and maybe even legal problems. For many of us others this seems problematic for healthy development in 2026.
Erdogan seems to be trying to succed this leader in his own way, as this type of persona worship is how things still function. Will his son continue afterwards like in North Korea,that is the question us outsiders are asking.
It seems like there is ongoing schism , between these two opposing fractions. The Kemalism versus Erdogans modern islamsism identity policies. For me , if only Turkey could function like a third option a free social democracy.
'Then some people that choose neither side, could live better lives.
Im rooting for Turkey to become an Eu member, after reforms.
6,
Janissaire7@reddit
bro that school is not underconstruction more like the theacher is repairing, painting it for her students.
P-l-Staker@reddit
I get that the guy was big for the country, but this feels quite excessive. Almost cult-like.
And no, I mean no offence.
Bobbythebobagain@reddit
It's not cult like at all. It's traces left of Tengrism in Turkish culture. Ancestor worship was a big thing back then. We respect and honor historical leaders in a way most won't understand. I don't expect you to fully understand it either, just like non-Christians can't understand how trinity is monotheism. Ataturk being by far most influantional leader Turks ever had he get's the greatest respect and honor, people do respect and honor him more than their parents. He is our saviour. People seem to think he is just a war hero. He did gain most of the Turkish majority territories back but he also was a revolutionary. Turkish society, culture and language was all shaped in his vision. Turks lived with alot of other cultures and peoples under Ottomans and Seljuks and most of their influence in Turks (except food) was holding us back. He cut it all of. He implemented such reforms so we could kick start a republic in Anatolia which was the most uneducated and poor part of the empire with no prior example. Turkey was a pearl among it's neighbours when it was first founded. Womens suffrage and laicite was such big reforms and ahead of most western countries and it worked. Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Egypt all tried and failed at these reforms.
New_Accident_4909@reddit
dies from cringe
wiglafofpinwick@reddit
Most probably there aren't any, because there were no other leader like Atatürk. His profile is unique because he combines Leader of the Army + liberator + The founding father + radical modernizer who transforms the culture+ a common-born. There are lot of beloved leaders for every country for some aspects like Washington, Lincoln, Ghandi, Bolivar, Skanderbeg, Lee Kuan Yew... But none of them combine all of the elements mentioned.
Go check his stats in HOI4, it's not that because the developers were Kemalists, he was just built different.
XlAcrMcpT@reddit
No, we generally don't have homebrewed Kim Il Sungs.
BeniOnReddit@reddit
wasnt ataturk some albanian loser? anyways erdogan is a dictator who needs to go to jail lol
BWC_Python@reddit
Nope, in my country , personality cults and nationalism rrmember us of communism and thats bad
1Pac2Pac3Pac5@reddit
I also saw kameezy Atateezy today. He was at the Rolex authorized dealer having his way with my wife
Rock_Zeppelin@reddit
Not really. There's some historical figures that are idolized, mainly from the Revival period, revolutionaries, etc. But the context of why they're honored or revered has been sanded down to like, bullet points. We aren't taught who they actually were, why they did what they did, what their impact on others or on Bulgarian society was, what their legacy is. And figures from the 20th century are almost entirely ignored, if not functionally erased. At most there's mentions of Boris III and how "he saved the Bulgarian Jews", so basically sanitized bullshit. Oh, and people who were relevant from after WW2? Forget it. Scientists, artists, writers, industrialists, anyone?
Oh, and the other figures that are idolized are fucking medieval rulers. And the ones idolizing them are almost unanimously chest-beating dipshit conservative skinhead nationalists dudebros.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Revival period i 1985-1989 Turkish Genocide? Afaik those were just Russian backed corrupt bureaucrats of a one party dictatorship, do they really deserved to be commemorated? Zhivkov or Lukanov are nothing like Botev or Vazov.
Rock_Zeppelin@reddit
What you call the Turkish Genocide is to us our independence movement. I'm also not talking about the communist leadership, even though I think there were many people who were part of the communist government or worked in state agencies who managed to accomplish good things despite the nature of the dictatorship. I think that's worth remembering, if for no other reason than the absurdity of stuff like one woman having to convince the party leadership of the need and benefits of abortion so that women in Bulgaria could be granted abortion rights.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
1985-1989 Genocide was your independence movement? Sh*t. I thought you became independent long time ago man.
Rock_Zeppelin@reddit
Wait, why did you mention the Revival when talking about the Turkish Displacement under Zhivkov? I'm talking about the 1800s, that's the Revival period.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
I misunderstood, 1985 - 1989 Genocide is also known as Revival Process in English. I lost 2 of my relatives during that genocide unfortunately. (I don't accuse you for it don't get me wrong)
Rock_Zeppelin@reddit
Oooooh. This is the first I hear of it being called a revival process. Here we just know it as that time Zhivkov wanted to do cultural erasure of Bulgarian Turks and that led to a mass displacement and exodus.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Not only cultural, Belene Concentration Camp was used to lock people who refused to use their Bulgarian names. Unfortunately many people got killed there and their bodies were lost. The body of my mother's uncle was never given to his family.
Rock_Zeppelin@reddit
Damn. I'm sorry for your family's loss. But yeah, no, I'm not saying any of that needs to be celebrated or commemorated in any way outside of a remembrance of the victims.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Thanks man. You know some people think a one party dictatorship who can turn out to his citizens of different ethnicities can be beneficial because "Ah, bread was free back then" this mentality is very dangerous, I believe.
People's Republic of Bulgaria was literally a state established by the Red Army after the liberation from the Axis. If Bulgarians had a choice, they'd never choose Communism. Bulgaria should seek her future as a democratic republic and stop looking solutions from backward bureaucratic dictatorships for low prices, this is my humble opinion.
Rock_Zeppelin@reddit
Well I do think bread should be free but I think the way you make that happen is through worker democracy and libertarian socialism, not being a puppet state to an authoritarian state capitalist bureaucracy.
mirtothisworld@reddit
Revival as in the 1762-1878 period. Beginning is marked by the writing of История Славянобългарска, (Istoriya slavyanobalgarska, literally 'Slav-Bulgarian History') by Saint Paisius of Hilendar and the end is marked by the end of Russo-Turkish war of 1877-1878 and the creation of the semi-independent Third Bulgarian Tsardom in its aftermath. You can read more here.
Ujemegaz@reddit
BKT https://youtu.be/NFr_VDMp5mM?si=rfuGP0DgQXDaTOey
Albtelecom https://youtu.be/Wel9UxlFDBk?si=-qcpiFU_Aae--oTX
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Huge respect to Albania, one of the few humane countries of the Balkans.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Both are Turkish companies 😅
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Woaw! I didn't know there were Turkish companies in Albania. Seems like it's Albania's turn to open some companies in Turkey, a Börek fast food enterprise would be neat ;)
ben_blue@reddit
So Turkish soldiers have red lipstick? Must be fun! /s
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
What's the relevance?
sayinmer@reddit
judging Atatürk and his actions as if those times were in today’s world is extremely idiotic in my opinion
our country was literally in pieces in 1910, in every way possible
he didn’t just win wars, he transformed the state and its people
for that, we are eternally grateful
GianLuka1928@reddit
Turkey really loves Jewish people 🤣
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Atatürk's father from Kocacık and her mother comes from the most famous Ulamah family of Thrace, Sofuzadeler, I really don't understand how Atatürk is Jewish, but if that relaxes you, fine by me.
GianLuka1928@reddit
I watched a documentary about that... His family "converted" to islam just to make a plot to rule the Turkiye... Z!onists made a plan to destroy khilafah because Sultan Abdulhamid refused to give Palestine to them, best plot of their plan is that they made Ataturks family muslims so they can rule the Turkiye because Turks would never give Jewish man rule their country ever...
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
His father is born in a village called Kocacık, in Macedonia-Albania borders. That village is very isolated and even today only have 5-6 families in it. His father came to Selanik from Kocacık and there were no Jews in her father's village, Kocacık is very isolated.
Her mother comes from Karaman region which doesn't have any Jews neither.
GianLuka1928@reddit
I'd like to be wrong about my opinion tbh.. But explore maybe a little bit more about this what I said... Reddit removed my comment as I offended anything or anyone wtf
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
It probably auto-censored by Reddit claimed as anti-semite.
There were newspaper from that time calling Atatürk sephardic and claiming that he recited Shema Israel but the same journals also claimed Atatürk was influenced by American system and planning to implement a presidential republic, the point is Atatürk always despised Presidential System and was very clear about it.
So, sources are very contradictory. But I'd be interested to see if there's a reliable source such as a family tree. The family tree of Sofuzadeler, his mother's family is archived in Turkish institutions, which extends to Karaman, Central Anatolian steppes with 0 Jews.
GianLuka1928@reddit
I'll give my best to find the resources that I mentioned and send you :) I really didn't wanted to spread any hate towards Ataturk or anyone
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Well, in my eyes, every nation including Jews, Arabs, Turks are equal. Even if Atatürk was Jewish, which is extremely unlikely considering the locations that he's originated from, he saved Turkey from transforming into Afghanistan and retake 800,000 km2 of land, after Sevres we only had 150,000 km2. Which is a huge success. In fact, I'd be proud a person of non-Turkic origin helped my country in such a way.
BoringAd8788@reddit
Im tired boss
BoringAd8788@reddit
he wouldn’t have given up
ShiruTheSpammer@reddit
Duality of a Turko
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
Available_Bus_9010@reddit
I am against to watch anything came from banks, and their PR works. Banks don't care anything except their money. Why should i waste my time with bank promotions?
Slow-Loan-9041@reddit
I think Atatürk is used as a proxy for modern nationalism. So these ads are more proof that we are a modern sovereign nation than direct reverence to Atatürk. But we do also love him a lot
PainOk1877@reddit
what do the erdogan-voting turks think of ataturk?
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Despite ersogans clear hatred for his reforms, quite a lot of AKP voters still like Atatürk.
All the lies and propaganda hasnt worked as ersogan thought it would
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Do you know what? Not like as many people think.
There are different researches conducted in Turkey, according to data the Turks who demand Islamic Law vary from 12% to 17%, it is lowest among the Muslim World with Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan.
Most Erdoğanists vote Erdoğan because of 2 reasons: He brought Anatolian Villager Populism into the scene and destroyed "Educated Elite" made the state belong to the people again (Which was abducted by the Elite) and He is the "Supreme Leader" who is making Turkey advance in the Defence Industry, if he goes, Europe, Arabs, Russia, Iran, Israel, everybody will attack us.
The Islamic Law supporters voted for YRP in the 2024 Local Elections. Erdoğan's support isn't based on this.
Most Erdoğan voting Turks are neutral or respectful towards Atatürk, maybe like 30% of them has negative views because of the reforms.
This street interview is conducted in Konya (Most of the city is Erdoğanist) they ask people if they prefer Erdoğan or Atatürk, most people say they prefer Erdoğan adds "Both are important for me! I pray for Atatürk, I respect him but I have a tenderness for Erdoğan" etc etc.
munchmills@reddit
According to the report by the Confederation of Progressive Trade Unions of Turkey and General Services Workers’ Union (DİSK/Genel-İş), Turkey has become the country with the highest income inequality in Europe. Two out of every ten people are poor, and six are in debt.
The poverty rate has risen to 21.2%, meaning two out of every 10 citizens are now poor. The poverty threshold has increased twelvefold since 2014. In 2014, the poverty line was 6,665 Turkish lira; by 2024, it had risen to 81,742 Turkish lira.
https://bianet.org/haber/turkey-ranks-first-in-europe-for-income-inequality-312285
gk98s@reddit
Erdogan's education minister is very anti Ataturk.
no1rezefan@reddit
34 of 100 voters direclt voted for Erdogan's party last elections
⅔ of those voters think that Atatürk was a great man in general, with some questionable reforms like enforcing secularism
⅓ of them genuinely believe that he was a traitor British spy and fiery enemy of islam, the antichrist, tried to erase the muslim turks' culture from the country. Banned the praying calls, teaching or reading Coran, turned mosques into animal barns, etc. They also believe that the last Ottoman sultan was actually funding the nationalist resistance in Anatolia until Ataturk betrayed him and took over the resistance. Most of what they believe comes from misinformation campaigns funded by the Erdogan goverment "Roblox was founded by Robert Blox" kind of facebook posts. The guy in this pic is like their messiah against the Kemalist regime, even though he was a british citizen himself
no1rezefan@reddit
FYI, the last sultan was fleeing to Malta by a British ship and marrying his underage 3th wife while Atatürk was leading the resistance
DriveByAtanCivciv@reddit
It wary a lot but the young voters mostly negative or mediocre.
Barbak86@reddit
There are people who are remembered every year, but it's not even close to the extent that you adore him. I can't think of any company doing an ad just to remember someone specifically. They do for events like independence day of Kosovo and Albania, but that's it.
menina2017@reddit
Aww that’s a very nice ad
gk98s@reddit
It's fucked up how Turkey's undoing Ataturk's reforms
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Are you Turkish?
gk98s@reddit
evet