A chunk of steel 40+ years old - you need $30k+ and a pile of paperwork to aquire it. The rich can afford it, and the criminals can make it. Where does that leave the average law-abiding American?
Posted by EducationalOil1655@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 153 comments
DJ_Sk8Nite@reddit
The FRT market has to be affecting this market.
Quw10@reddit
If it is I think it's minimal. The people willing to drop $30K on something like this are probably buying it for collectors value first and as a range toy second and FRTs really haven't become a collectors item.
MalicoIndustries@reddit
It’s not
xosxos@reddit
I can’t understand them having 10 photos, like how in god’s name can that be possible for a simple piece of metal lol
Electronic-Split-492@reddit
You are not even buying the metal. You are buying the tax stamp that allows you to possess the metal.
mwmwmwmwmmdw@reddit
what you are really buying is the entry on the machine gun registry. im sure in the last 40 years these things have broken or worn out at quietly been refabricated with the same number stamped on it.
DTidC@reddit
Iirc the trip and springs can be replaced as wearable parts as long as the main piece is intact
allisayisbeautiful@reddit
It literally doesn't matter too. If it ever breaks, you can just build a new one and stick the same number on there. Hell, you can even build a hundred of them. Doesn't matter.
Solidknowledge@reddit
you're not supposed to say the quite part out loud dude
hotelwhiskey291@reddit
For over $30,000 of course you would take photos at every angle. There could easily be a crack in the steel or some other issue.
More pics = higher confidence in the product = higher bids.
EducationalOil1655@reddit (OP)
I mean you're spending your life savings on a chunk of metal. Id want to make sure that chunk ZERO issues.
xosxos@reddit
Good point, gotta make sure all the edges are pristine 👍
EducationalOil1655@reddit (OP)
I didn't mean it like that. I guess I just don't find more photos offensive? More info the better
xosxos@reddit
Oh not offensive, sorry for the misconstrued post.
Just found it funny since I’ve seen actual MGs posts with like 5 pics, with one of those pics being the logo of the FFL shop.
EducationalOil1655@reddit (OP)
Oh no I didn't find it offensive at all! It was pretty funny, I just wanted to clarify!
electromage@reddit
Well, if it's photographed in detail from different angles, maybe with a ruler for scale...
AdThat1510@reddit
For 30k I could drive to Mexico, stay a month, buy several auto Sears, sneak them into the US, cross back over the border, keep a few and sell the rest.
DTidC@reddit
For a few thousand, you could buy a Bridgeport mill and some steel stock and make your own
DontBelieveTheirHype@reddit
3d printer goes brrrrrr
tach@reddit
the 'transferable' part is the bigger slice of the pie, I'm afraid.
Tower-of-Frogs@reddit
Just to make a replica paper weight though, right? Right?
Nebakanezzer@reddit
Can't even do that in my state
slk28850@reddit
FRT is the budget option.
EducationalOil1655@reddit (OP)
My point is more about the politics of it, and tbh I think FRTs are a bandaid solution. They're gonna be targeted eventually
Maximum_Dweeb4473@reddit
That’s why you should be acquiring them now, while they are freely available.
Be part of the reason they are in “common use”.
M00seNuts@reddit
If "common use" hasn't been an effective argument against magazine capacity restrictions or stock AR's in commie states, what makes you think it would be effective with FRTs?
That's not a rhetorical question - I'm genuinely curious as to how that would be an effective strategy when it's only been successfully argued in one firearm case in 2008.
Maximum_Dweeb4473@reddit
It might not be 🤷🏻♂️ better to get them while we can, regardless.
M00seNuts@reddit
Can't say I disagree with you on that one.
My wallet on the other hand.... I think .22 is the only thing I could afford to shoot in something with an FRT, lol.
lethalmuffin877@reddit
Reloading press, people will tell you that it doesn’t save you money. That is not accurate, the context of that statement is you won’t save money because you’ll be able to shoot vastly more often.
If you don’t shoot vastly more often, you are saving money.
M00seNuts@reddit
I have an RCBS Rock Chucker and a Dillon XL650. Even reloading, ammo costs have been insane lately.
lethalmuffin877@reddit
Highly recommend checking out raven rocks, American reloading, and snipers hide has a BST for reloading components 🎩👌🏼
Fried_Rifleman_6220@reddit
My average 223 reloads are like 20-30 cents lol brass is free at the range.
lethalmuffin877@reddit
Good shit 🤠 What I didn’t realize before jumping in, is that reloads can be better quality than factory ammo. Erik cortina, f class John, and Johnny’s reloading bench on YT opened my ballistics third eye 🗿
Maximum_Dweeb4473@reddit
Laughs in TX22 with an FRT shooting CCI Stingers at 2000 rounds per minute
M00seNuts@reddit
You're exactly the guy I want to talk to... I haven't had a lot of time this year to tinker, but it just so happens that I have a TX22 and an FRT.
It's the older version that isn't cut for an optic. It's uncontrollable as all hell, which is not at all what I expected from a little .22.
Am I just a bitch? Is it just a grip strength thing? Did you do anything to make the recoil more manageable?
Also, does yours run suppressed well? I tried to run mine with a can and it turned into a single-shot pistol.
Maximum_Dweeb4473@reddit
Sadly, I don’t personally have an FRT on my TX22 since I live in lame Illinois. My uncle in a free state has an FRT on his Gen 2 TX22 TORO and it’s awesome. He doesn’t run it suppressed though because he’s not trying to put a lifetime’s worth of fouling in a can in a single day 😂
In terms of controlling recoil, have you tried leaning forward with a wide stance? And really push out with your hands. Otherwise, I imagine a gas pedal would help 🤷🏻♂️
M00seNuts@reddit
I've shot the little fucker twice since installing the FRT. I have ZERO problems with recoil management with regular semi-auto 9mm pistols and I've shot competitions and shit with pretty respectable times. Maybe I just haven't had enough trigger time behind it, but goddamn that thing gets away from me so fast. The cyclic rate is absolutely insane.
I took a class a little while ago where the instructor was certified from the "modern samurai project" for that grip they use where you're torquing down with your off-hand to directly counteract the recoil impulse. Maybe I'm just bitchmade, but that didn't do shit to keep me from climbing 3 feet above my target on a (very fast) mag dump with that damn FRT.
Anyways, thanks for your input. I'll have to do some research later when I have more time to see if I can un-fuck whatever I've got goin on.
VanillaIce315@reddit
There are only two things that are going to help you.
More time behind the trigger
Adding weight to the slide, via red dot, to slow down rate of fire.
M00seNuts@reddit
I want a milling machine like a back alley hooker wants crack, but the one I want would be about $5k with tooling....
I've been seriously considering picking up an optics ready TX22 specifically for the FRT for that reason. I've seen comps for the TX22 and I have a sneaking suspicion that the added weight does more than the actual comp for recoil management on a .22....
Thank you for your thoughts/comment.
Do you have any recommendations for a half-decent budget red dot to throw on it? My EDC has a Holosun EPS, but there's no way in hell I'm gonna spend more on the optic than the pistol. I'd pick up an attachment for the rail and weld on some 1x1 mild steel barstock as a weight before I did that, lol.
Maximum_Dweeb4473@reddit
That MSP grip sounds similar to how PewView on YouTube describes his non standard grip that eats muzzle climb 🤔
Suckamanhwewhuuut@reddit
I too enjoy hypervelocity 22 rounds
sadoproject@reddit
There has been at least one significant higher court ruling that set precedent that FRT's are legal. That has not happened yet with standard capacity magazines or scary black rifles.
M00seNuts@reddit
Only because the text of the NFA doesn't outlaw the method FRTs function and the challenge was against them being banned based on the NFA.
Any state can ban them at will with legislation, and some have. Those bans haven't been struck down in 14 states so far.
dreadeddrifter@reddit
Common use is an interesting topic because the court case found that 200,000 stun guns was enough to be considered "in common use" but the 2.38 million machine guns that are legally registered aren't considered "in common use". I don't understand how that works.
slk28850@reddit
Common use is a bad standard. So is dangerous and unusual. I don't care if someone invented a gun that shoots rabid wolverines and only the prototype existed. I have a right to buy that gun if it is for sale or build it at home if it isn't.
VanillaIce315@reddit
I want a machine gun that shoots rabid wolverines, with an underbarrel launcher that shoots pissed off Canadian geese
Maximum_Dweeb4473@reddit
I want a standalone version of the geese launcher because I think Canadian Geese are funny and cute friends 🤙
slk28850@reddit
Honk, honk!
slk28850@reddit
Hell yeah!
EducationalOil1655@reddit (OP)
Why would we call those states Communist? They are terrible and they are leaning toward a more restrictive/controlling government, but I certainly wouldn't call them Communist.
It's the same shit as calling Republicans Nazis. You can argue all you want about whether they are fascist or not, but it's an objective fact they are NOT Nazis.
The Democrats are dangerous, but they aren't Communist. Talk to an actual Communist, and they'll say the Dems haven't done anything to support their cause
M00seNuts@reddit
Found the tankie.
In the birthplace of communism, once the bolsheviks gained control and established the soviet union they consolidated power by instituting gun control on the masses. Only those who were loyal to the party could have access to firearms, and even then only the military and police were allowed to have anything that could be effectively used for any real resistance.
"Commie states" are trying to take away any effective method of resistance from the populace. There are parallels there that are hard to ignore.
The FAR left will not take hold in the US in my lifetime without a violent revolution that would then, just like the USSR, consolidate power by restricting arms. The regular left wants to restrict arms for the same damn reasons but doesn't want to be involved directly in the violence that it would take.
Same poison, different pill.
EducationalOil1655@reddit (OP)
I am not a Communist. Hell, I'm not even a democrat.
If you're calling libertarians "Communists", I think you might need to relearn some basic terminology : )
M00seNuts@reddit
Haha, fair enough. Our politics likely align more than they don't. I've never been registered with either party and have never voted along party lines in my life.
It's a damn shame that we don't have a party in the US that is for expanding civil rights. A vote for either party is just a vote for which rights you want to lose.
EducationalOil1655@reddit (OP)
Exactly. Both Democrats and Republicans hurt civil rights, just for different groups. I have issues with the Libertarian Party, but never to the extent I have with the Ds and Rs.
WowBruhReborn@reddit
You know, this “common use” thing doesn’t fucking work. How many times is a common use weapon/attachment going to be banned in such and such state before you people realize something being in common use means nothing?
There are multiple states with “Assault weapons” bans old enough to drink. Hell, DC has had one for almost 100 years. Common use means absolutely nothing and people need to just forget about it
slk28850@reddit
To be clear I think the NFA should be abolished along with all the other gun law infringements.
EducationalOil1655@reddit (OP)
Oh 100%. Sawing off a barrel shouldn't land me in prison.
Big_Z_Diddy@reddit
Drilling a hole shouldn't land you prison either.
Logizyme@reddit
Depends how old the hole is
EducationalOil1655@reddit (OP)
If the lower is 17 and you're 19, is it legal to drill?
Logizyme@reddit
Depends if your state has a Romeodrill and Julilowerett law.
secret_alpaca@reddit
And consent
VanillaIce315@reddit
And which species
psvitantifail@reddit
🤣
EducationalOil1655@reddit (OP)
"Will you commit a felony for me uwu"
Big_Z_Diddy@reddit
That's...not at all what I meant.
Got_Sig@reddit
Already are. I can’t have anything that’s fun in my state when it comes to super safety, FRT, none of the bandaids.
ShotgunEd1897@reddit
Not if the zone is flooded.
P10RMP@reddit
If the punishment is a fee/fine, the law is classist suppression.
airmech1776@reddit
They also dont last very long, from what Ive heard.
clovencarrot@reddit
I agree it's austere to pay this much for permanent permission from decades ago and the artifact is a $25 piece of machined metal.
KittehKittehKat@reddit
I sure wish they had called them force assisted reset triggers!
slk28850@reddit
Wouldn't stop the infringers from infringing.
KittehKittehKat@reddit
But they’d be called FARTs!
cheese4432@reddit
you say that like it's a bad thing
slk28850@reddit
Nice
Azaroth1991@reddit
At that point just get a binary.
slk28850@reddit
If I get one it will be a three position FRT. I prefer those.
mooseman077@reddit
My buddy has a few, they are awesome
slk28850@reddit
They look awesome. Haven't pulled the trigger on getting one yet myself.
JE3146@reddit
Not in a growing number of states…
slk28850@reddit
Sad infringement noises.
JE3146@reddit
Not much you can do when the state legislation with a super majority decides to infringe on your rights repeatedly.
slk28850@reddit
I know. It is still sad though.
ManOf1000Usernames@reddit
My state banned all "rate of fire enhancing devices" after the bumpstock hysteria, which this wording has been interpreted to also ban FRTs
slk28850@reddit
Sorry to hear that.
Cryptic1911@reddit
Mine too. I don't think Jerry Miculek can step foot into the state
AspiringArchmage@reddit
A bump stock and frt doesnt increase rate of fire. It is as fast you can possibly fire a semi auto.
Maximum_Dweeb4473@reddit
One could argue an FRT is a rate of fire limiter, since it ensures you cant fire faster than the time it makes you take by pushing your finger so that it can actuate the trigger again. It’s preventing you from shooting faster than 1200 rounds per minute. Safety first!
Chris-Proton@reddit
You could probably go to a machinist and he could make you one for a fraction of this price.
Ok-Calendar9243@reddit
It’s going to be $50k before the hammer falls
Stannis44@reddit
you can make this in like 1-2 hour in cnc if the mesurments availble .
R4d1c4lp1e@reddit
Our work just got a manual milling machine and I saw that and thought "bloody hell I could whip that up in an hour." That's is a scarily simple design.
Stannis44@reddit
yeah i had the same reaction, if youre regular customer of the shop in türkiye buying one "yellow" cola is enough to pay for this 😃
alrashid2@reddit
Buy an FRT. The Common Man's Liberator
YOUTUBEFREEKYOYO@reddit
My answer is most likely "SOL"
Internal-Pop1885@reddit
I could save $29,775 and just buy an frt. Stupid gun broker people as always
Missouri_Pacific@reddit
What gets me is that there are two bids on this!!! WTAF???
castle_crossing@reddit
$30K is wishful thinking. That will close much nearer to $50K.
asillasitgets@reddit
This 👆🏼
MArkansas-254@reddit
It leaves us with fortuitous boating accidents. 👍
paulfuckinpepin@reddit
Plenty of other options than a serialized hunk of metal. Frt’s and super safeties being the top 2.
kwead@reddit
I just wish they weren't massive wear components. MGs are designed to be incredibly reliable, FRTs rely on the bolt slamming full force at the little nub thing to cause the trigger reset. they are just fun novelties, which honestly fills the novelty void for 99.9% of people, but after a couple thousand rounds you will need to replace it, and even sooner with a super safety
Ok-Mathematician198@reddit
Until the next administration decides to make them illegal.
gguy128@reddit
I want a 10,000 acre private island. The rich get them and criminals get them. Where does that leave middle America?
Familiar_Fee_7891@reddit
FRTs have changed the debate. We’re winning.
eMGunslinger@reddit
Not from what I have seen at all. Most of the people who are contacting me for MG's are getting FRT's first realizing its cool and then wanting other stuff. Prices are completely unphased other than a typical republican in office and standard slump which happens every 4-6 years. I deal with a few hundred MG's a year and have for the last 15 years. I wish the prices would come down or they get rid of the Hughes Amendment but as it stands it's business as usual here.
ThirdHoleHank92@reddit
The "I know what I got" types
Familiar_Fee_7891@reddit
Would you say that there are more pre-86 transferrables today or FRT's?
shatteringlass123@reddit
State might target FRT, but Fed would have to change how the statute and Law is written regarding what constitutes as MG, good luck with that.
CJ_Lvl@reddit
Yes but when any state bans the FRT, and a handful have already, and someone lives in that said state, it doesn’t matter what the feds say at that point
gokartninja@reddit
And that's why the NFA needs to be repealed
No-Leadership-1371@reddit
The same place it always leaves us: screwed or looking for legal alternatives.
Burnpowder_636@reddit
Leaves us right where they want us, working, subservient, and hamstrung to fight back.
Knotted_Hole69@reddit
Yet most people in this sub elect people that do just that. Its asinine. How about we tax the ultra wealthy, raise the minimum wage, and give people more money in their pocket. Seems like the main goal of the current administration is to WEAKEN the dollar. How could yall support that?
PirateRob007@reddit
When I first started working, they raised the minimum wage to $5.75 an hour. If it was actually a workable solution they wouldn't have needed to raise it to 15 with people like you claiming we need to raise it more. Artificially inflating prices this way weakens the dollar, so your entire comment is contradictory and borderline regarded.
Knotted_Hole69@reddit
It should keep up with inflation, like it used to.
JohnT36@reddit
Da Supa Safety my ninja
ManOf1000Usernames@reddit
All US gun control comes from Jim Crow era supression of newly enfranchised minorities, both freed slaves and later the poor huddled immigrant masses. The civil rights era, rather than remove such laws, has instead made them apply on a non racial basis to everyone. The original proposed 1968 NFA closely mirrored the Nazi disarmament laws.
The specific laws of the 1934 NFA were to remove rights via newly acquired federal tax power, that is why the NFA stamp cost $200. $200 was about how much a new thompson cost back in the 1930s, it effectively doubled the price. $200 in 1934 is about $5000 today, so with the orignal NFA tax it went to close to $10,000 in today money.
gunplumber700@reddit
“Full majority in congress”. Tell me you don’t know how it works without telling me…
lethalmuffin877@reddit
You need to expand your perception to the entirety of the “prohibition” era if you’re going to cite some of the variables and draw a conclusion.
All variables need to be considered. The government strong arm of the early 1900s wasn’t just a targeted attack on “freed slaves” and “colored people” it was a Hail Mary of control based governance in the wake of exploding technological advancements and military arms races due to world conflicts and instability in the economy.
They went after more than just the guns, they went after alcohol, cigarettes, commodities/freedoms/vices everyone bought into in a country where individual freedom was unparalleled. They used many excuses to do this much the same way they do today using the “save the children” approach for extreme gun control and iron fist regulations on internet anonymity.
Also, the civil rights act “era” was 30-40 years later in the post WW2 period. Until that period, segregation and racialism was mostly a southern problem the fed had no interest in solving.
I’m not saying you’re completely wrong, you’re just overlooking the larger equation. Racial politics are only one piece of a much larger puzzle used to keep us ALL under control. Case in point, it’s not as though the NFA or prohibition era policy only applied and oppressed black folks. It restricts everyone BUT the governing class and their personal military power in the form of cops and agents.
Sladay@reddit
It's always been about class politics. Because the NFA $200 tax when passed in 1934 was roughly equivalent to $5k in today's money.
Charles_Perc@reddit
I give zero shits about DIAS now that FRT’s and Super Safeties are a thing.
Capable_Line_823@reddit
The feds are hawk-eyeing this post for sure!!!!
Physical__War__@reddit
Only “the criminals” can make it? Interesting take. Anyways, gonna go play with my super safety.
lanekrieger94@reddit
How much does a dewalt drill and a 1/8 in bit cost again?
earl_the_recker@reddit
ShotgunEd1897@reddit
Super safeties and FTRs.
paulie_kun@reddit
$30k+ for just a chunk of steel, I rather just legally buy an assembled full-auto that’s already converted than a part, but hey they must be rich so good luck to them
eMGunslinger@reddit
Lowers wear out or blow up, DIAS do not and its the flexibility between hosts that drives that market.
eMGunslinger@reddit
You need 52k+ to get one of those, sold one of mine on GB last week. That's a steel DIAS and Stemple was reputable it'll bring the same.
SupSquidey@reddit
yankee boogle
blurto78@reddit
Infringed?
bernfranksimo@reddit
Wtf??
Couldnt aome metalsmith easily build these???
sirbassist83@reddit
you can build these with a $500 hobby mill and an hours worth of youtube.
JoseSaldana6512@reddit
You can build them with a file, chalk and patients
Akconcentrates@reddit
Patience
sirbassist83@reddit
extra emphasis on patience, but youre not wrong
Big_Z_Diddy@reddit
They can be 3d printed. No metal needed. Not that I am suggesting someone do that, especially if they have a dog, but it's possible.
TacTurtle@reddit
Per ATF ruling, a 14" shoestring with a loop on each end is a machine gun.
EducationalOil1655@reddit (OP)
Wtf
EducationalOil1655@reddit (OP)
Thus, the restriction is meaningless
FlakyAd2402@reddit
Yes but its a matter of if they want the years in a federal prison that comes along with making one
banned4evver@reddit
A 12 year old could make one of these….the dimensions are plastered all over the internets
Ok_Ordinary6694@reddit
Volume is for those who suck at accuracy.
What are you putting down suppressive fire on the HOA? Turning the tennis courts into a beaten zone?
DonutAdmirable9831@reddit
Print one I guess
thecountnotthesaint@reddit
Where you ask? At the checkout counter with Hawaiian shirts and a drill press. Or with the knowledge that given proper trigger discipline and proper breathing, (Thank you Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, best worst four years of my life.) you can be far more accurate and still put more rounds down range with a semi and iron sites.
gnartato@reddit
It leavs us with closets full of legal coat hangers.
OT_Militia@reddit
FRT, or CARL for three round burst.
allamerican37@reddit
I would call and ask to demo before I buy
Witty_Ad4494@reddit
I remember when those, and hk seats sold for less than the cost of the tax stamp.
banned4evver@reddit
I remember shotgun news used to sell these for $299 shipped to your door…it’s a shame everyone lost them in random boating accidents and house fires….
KGb_Voodo0@reddit
The paperwork is easy, the price is not