Should I leave American for Delta?
Posted by Editor-Powerful@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 203 comments
Seeking genuine career advice.
I am 26, turning 27 this summer. Currently a pilot at AA, I have been here for 9 months, and have 1,300 pilots below me. I have a class date at Delta, and I am considering leaving. I'd really appreciate any advice, perspective, input, or thoughts.
Domiciles are a wash, I am from Denver, CO (United never called). For Delta, I'd move to SLC or commute there from Denver; for American, I’d move to DFW or PHX or commute from Denver. I am single, no kids, willing to relocate. I could be happy anywhere.
The big draw for me at AA is seniority progression. I could upgrade in 2 years here. I would take the first upgrade and invest heavily in my future, buy a house, help my parents and brother, etc. I want to make as much money as possible, especially while I’m young. However, AA is the weakest financially and operationally in comparison to UA, DL, and WN, and that concerns me. I want to take pride in my company and trust the longevity/profitability/future of the company I work for for the next 38 years.
The draw for DL is its strength, profitability, operation, prestige, brand, stability, and it being the consistent industry leader. All of that is very appealing. DL is worth 40B, AA is worth 7-8B. Big difference. I think DL will have industry-leading contracts before other carriers get them. However, seniority progression is much slower at DL. From what I have been told and discovered from playing with seniority tools, upgrade times will be 7-8 years for anyone hired today. The wait for a widebody would be similar. That time is trending down as DL is hiring more, but still slower than American. I already have 1,300 below me at AA, and I’d be starting from the bottom again on a slower-moving list.
However, the future is not known, and just because something is true today, doesn’t mean it’ll be true tomorrow. AA could make a comeback, and then I would greatly regret leaving, or Delta could grow more than expected, and I would regret staying.
If I leave American, would I be making a worthwhile seniority sacrifice for a better company, or would I be making a foolish decision chasing today’s best thing?
I realize how lucky I am. Timing is everything. This industry is unfair.
I would really appreciate any advice, perspective, input, or thoughts. Sincerely, thank you for your time.
flyingwithfish24@reddit
Nah bro! Quit American and go to Nicholas Air! You probably report rampers on your free time too don’t ya
WorkingOnPPL@reddit
On a path to be a 29 year old captain at a legacy. I wouldn’t upset that apple cart. Just my opinion.
draggingmytail@reddit
His lobster is too buttery and his steak is too juicy
hoppertn@reddit
Hi wallet is too small for his stacks of 100’s.
ddom737@reddit
Back in the day it used to be said that the pronounced flight deck bulge in the B747 design was required because the captains were sitting on their wallets.
HotRecommendation283@reddit
He’s suffering from his golden spoon being too heavy
goatfuckersupreme@reddit
Gosh, and his ivory tower is just a touch too tall
cdark_@reddit
Fellow AA pilot here,
I do get the allure of Delta. I have many friends at UA and DA that cash 25-50K profit sharing checks the last couple years. It’s frustrating, but I also know this industry is insanely cyclical. AA could be on top in 10 years and stay there for the rest of your career.
With that said, seniority is everything. You have 1300 people below you — that’s a lot of people that would need to get furloughed before your job is in question. Imagine switching to Delta, economy dives and they stop hiring for 5 years. You’d be stuck on the bottom. Too many variables outside your control in this industry to give up your current position IMO.
I’d stay and move to DFW given your age and willingness to relocate. It’s the most diverse flying we have, every plane in our fleet, home-based for all training, great opportunities to become a check pilot and be home every night, 6 months a year etc.
Having personally seen how bad this industry can get and how much seniority matters, I’d stick with AA. You’re in such a king-made position. If you had said MSP or ATL were non negotiables for you, or you had some kind of sentimental attachment/family at Delta, then I’d consider the move. Good luck with whatever you decide!
Editor-Powerful@reddit (OP)
Thank you, sir. Well said. I appreciate you.
Thelocalizer@reddit
At your age and only 9 months in, the seniority would be a wash. Delta is hiring a ton this year and trying to keep up with United’s growth plans. For what it’s worth, there’s tons of pilots that live in AA bases but chose to fly for other legacy’s. You don’t see as many AA pilots living in other legacy bases commuting in for AA. Salt lake is also a growing city that Delta operates wide body’s out of. You’d prob get wide body there before a wide body line at DFW. If you interviewed and are thinking about it, then leave and don’t look back.
toraai117@reddit
Stay. AA is a good family and you’ll be waaay more senior. Unless getting to widebodys asap is your goal
Lensatic_wilkinson@reddit
Man, to be 27 and already at a legacy carrier.
HumbleSiPilot77@reddit
Same. Here at late 40s at a regional FO to be CA soon, I'm probably doomed.
BassetCock@reddit
Neither. Stay put or keep trying for United or Southwest if you want to stay in Denver. You’re young, commuting seems doable now, when you’re older driving to work changes this career, especially if you say you wanna make as much money as possible.
Sincerely,
a 20 year commuter.
HawkAviator@reddit
What do you think about a 2.5hr drive to base, versus a 20min drive to airport then 1.5hr flight commute to work? I'd be interested to get your take on this as a 20yr commuter.
BassetCock@reddit
Also to add depending on the city pair and your commuter clause your flights may not be timed well and you’ll spend 8 hours sitting around at the airport waiting to start. Nothing worse than finishing a trip early only to have to sit in crew room for the next 5 hours before your next flight home. With a car you leave when you have to and get to the airport close to the time you need to be there.
BassetCock@reddit
I’d take the 2.5 hour drive to work everyday.
cincocerodos@reddit
I'd say that highly depends on where it is and traffic though. San Diego to LAX can be an absolutely miserable drive depending on when your trip reports. Could be 2.5 hours, could be 5. I'd almost rather commute by plane than that and I absolutely hate commuting.
BassetCock@reddit
True. A 30 minute drive in LA could turn into 2 hours pretty easily.
aftcg@reddit
I tell my CFI kids to land a gig at a major, the first one that calls. Sit their ass there, chase the upgrade, enjoy the seniority, pay, qol, and retire early. Make the airline job work for you after 10 years. I think looking back at it from a retired pilot standpoint, it'll all be worth it.
cincocerodos@reddit
Don't even necessarily chase the upgrade. Go fly WB, see the world while you're young before it really tears you up.
RutabagaBitter8165@reddit
I may not get mainline captain pay but its sunstantial. Im glad the Alaskan government pays my paycheck. My job security is less sensitive to the ebbs and flows of the price of Jet A.
olemiss36@reddit
your seniority will be much better at AA than DL
cirque_plc@reddit
But the prestige!
ATrainDerailReturns@reddit
Seriously wtf
Dudes 26 ashamed of flying AA
Editor-Powerful@reddit (OP)
I am not ashamed, I am very happy to be here, just wondering if I should spend my 38 years somewhere else. I know this is a very privileged position, but I wanted to get people's opinions. Thank you for yours.
cincocerodos@reddit
You also commute at an airline with one of the better "just make an effort to get here" commuter policies and want to go to the major that has arguably the shittiest, most antagonistic commuter policy out there?
cirque_plc@reddit
It’s a valid thing to wonder, we’re just laughing at your comment about “the prestige” being a pro of delta lol
If that kind of thing matters to you, then go to delta. You’ll fit right in
SRM_Thornfoot@reddit
The grass is the same on both sides of the fence. The job is the same, and with pattern bargaining the contracts are nearly the same. ‘Me too’ clauses will keep pay about the same as well.
No one has a crystal ball so no one can tell you what airline will be on top in the future. Since you don’t care about bases there is no immediately compelling reason I can see to switch. You would be giving up a lot of seniority, and seniority is king.
Move to a base and don’t commute is my advice to getting the most out of the career. You will have more days off and much better opportunity to pick up extra flying.
Good luck either way.
B1G_D11CK_R111CK_69@reddit
The industry is cyclical. You have 38 years, and a lot will change during that time. I would not leave right now.
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
Kalshi has odds that Delta will face two chapter 11 bankruptcies and get acquired by AA in 2041, stapling them to the bottom of the list and dismantling ALPA entirely.
Flagrant_negligence@reddit
/s or not your comment is hilarious I don’t get the downvotes
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
The downvotes are from the outsiders looking in who think I'm being serious but don't know anything about the airlines.
cincocerodos@reddit
I hear enough dumb shit from pilots I can't tell what's a joke and what's serious anymore.
FiberApproach2783@reddit
I mean, have you seen the shit some people say on here lol? It's hard to tell sometimes who's bullshitting around
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
It's pretty obvious it's bullshit if you're an airline pilot
Ok-Selection4206@reddit
The alpa part anyway, everything else 100% possibility.
FiberApproach2783@reddit
Damn😔
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
In fairness I've been on this website long enough I absolutely thought you were serious.
10/10 shithousery, no notes
Ok-Selection4206@reddit
100% (someone furloughed twice)
anonymoo5e77@reddit
If you base any life decisions on Kalshi you should take an IQ test. I’d be interested to see how low it is.
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
I guess I need to put an /s next to obviously sarcastic posts.
hoppertn@reddit
Nothing flies over my head, I would catch it.
rkba260@reddit
I was like... DL collapse causes ALPA to crumble?! This has to be snark.
OzrielArelius@reddit
nah everyone here is undiagnosed
dash_trash@reddit
Who gives a fucking shit what Kalshi says?
Mike__O@reddit
Exactly. Go to a new hire at Pan Am in the 1960s and tell them the company would be bankrupt and gone in a bit over 30 years and listen to them laugh you out of the room.
This whole industry is a gamble from start to finish. At some point you put your chips on the table and just hope you backed the right horse. Everything else is out of your control
gromm93@reddit
As if we really pick the companies we work for, and they don't pick us.
See also: everyone who worked at Spirit.
Ok-Selection4206@reddit
OP is about to pick the airline he works for...
Mike__O@reddit
To an extent, but not entirely. There's a lot of intertia to keep you where you're at once you get there, but there's nothing keeping you from jumping ship if you're willing to give up the seniority. Look at all the dudes who left FedEx the past few years from the contract fuckery. I don't think FedEx is in danger of going under like Spirit, but it's an example of people voting with their feet when things got ugly.
Once you get to maybe 10 years or so, you're really getting into "I hope I backed the right horse" territory. It's a big leap to move elsewhere at that point, so you're just letting it ride.
gromm93@reddit
Oh, I understand that. I may have a student flair, but this is now my 3rd career. I hope. And in one of those previous careers, I was in exactly the same position about what horse I might have been betting on, except I wasn't doing the betting, I was along for the ride. It was pretty obvious to me that the horse would only ever be third place no matter what I did, or who I knew.
As is usually the case, only the top 1% get to pick anything. The rest of us get picked by who will take us.
International-Ad4578@reddit
Sounds like you already have the iron rice bowl.
HawkAviator@reddit
Move to a base and enjoy the hand you've been dealt, my friend.
B727FA@reddit
To add on to my post: 1300 below you isn’t nothing. Where would you be at DL today if you went there 9 months ago? 1300 is the magic number here. The next question is, at what rate are both carriers hiring? 50 in a class vs 100 in a class. Weekly starts? Say the 50 new hire class starts every Monday but the 100 class is every other Monday, now the math is equal (for # of NH), except it’s possible the extra week of SN could be significant down the road. 🤷♂️
EstablishmentFar2400@reddit
My steaks too juicy and bread to buttery
B727FA@reddit
I would. Only 9 months in? It’s a wash in <2 years. The only thing stable at AA is the instAAbility.
hi_yoooo@reddit
That’s a long career you have ahead of you. Hopefully AA gets their act together and can become number 1 again. Who knows what the future holds. I preferred AA because of the bases, and no double breasted jackets with hats. I do hate that we can only get a good contract after Delta and United set the bar.
Moonwalkmike@reddit
the amount of CFI’s probably punching air rn
Embarrassed_Income12@reddit
For REAL IM COOKED
CougarBacon@reddit
I fell to my knees in a Walmart
junebug172@reddit
At least he’s genuine.
Go_Loud762@reddit
The amount of LCC, ULCC, regional, commuter, fractional, and 135 pilots punching the air right now.
Cherokeepilot69@reddit
Spirit guys are throwing up in the shirts right now (it's me I'm a spirit guy)
anaqvi786@reddit
us freight dogs too
Muschina@reddit
I'm retired and I''m still kinda pissed.
Flymia@reddit
I'm not a pilot and pissed too.
Go_Loud762@reddit
Sorry about excluding you
MrAflac9916@reddit
yeah well I’m 29 and I’m a CFI with 500 hours
Moonwalkmike@reddit
I’m 30 and didn’t even finish my degree yet lol you’ll be where you want to long before me my guy lol
GoNDSioux@reddit
Real “my bread is too buttery and my steak too juicy” moment.
TheGrayMannnn@reddit
Some of them are hoping he loses his medical and they look similar enough they can pull a Gattaca with him.
A few are plotting to make it happen.
DonWop1@reddit
Can confirm
HeadorHeal42@reddit
Stay at AA. Grass isn’t always greener. Stay focused on your original goals you set for yourself when you started to fly and as they adjusted when you started at AA. Don’t lose sight of them. Is Delta better than AA on the surface in today’s market, yes. Is that going to be the same in 10-15 years maybe or maybe not. The only thing that is guaranteed in almost every business is change. You already know the temperature of the water you’re currently sitting in and you know we’re all the shallow and deep parts of the lake are so you can navigate accordingly. My opinion you stay the course at AA.
m4a785m@reddit
I can't believe you fly at a legacy airline and lack comprehension of basic airline economics and financials
brongchong@reddit
He gets financials. American’s are shit. Delta’s are the best in the industry. United is #2. Also, American is missing the entire 1 month’s pay in profit sharing that Delta currently has.
brongchong@reddit
Delta is the clear choice right now. Or United, but that’s not on the table. I would 100% leave American for Delta right now at your age.
gvudrt@reddit
oh noooooo my steak is too juicy and my lobster’s too butter
0621Hertz@reddit
If you’re really dead set on Denver for life I would keep trying for United.
DeltaTule@reddit
He’s too qualified for UA. UA doesn’t hire experienced pilots (hence the EWR 76 incident and more to come).
0621Hertz@reddit
Bending 767s seems to be a pastime there.
Ok-Selection4206@reddit
It did not sound like he was "dead set on anything. He said he could move anywhere and be happy.
e_pilot@reddit
This is answer. Keep building seniority where you’re at especially that close to upgrade, and keep your UA app updated.
Other than being a good pit older than you I’m in a similar situation in Denver with a decent amount of seniority in the left seat at an ACMI but no UA call yet, but no real reason to jump around other than chasing a Denver base.
a_provo_yakker@reddit
Dude you’re gonna be one of those guys here that retires in the double digits. We had a couple 25 y/o in my class and their seniority projection was insane. Enjoy your nearly 40 years.
Move to a base and enjoy life. I’m biased, so I say move down here. It’s kinda junior or very junior, idk what fleet you’re on. Trips are mid but frankly every time I look at other sequences, everyone’s just doing the same-looking narrowbody trips. If you bid in an upcoming vacancy, I bet your seniority would hold a line in any base, so look to see where the best seniority falls. Definitely better here than Dallas if it’s just between those two domiciles.
AA isn’t half bad. I don’t recommend it to anyone who is going to commute for life, but you’re already here and have figured out you gotta move to a base at some point. If you don’t want the heat, you can live outside the metro area. Pretty much the only bummer in PHX is flight variety if you’re the nonrev type. I personally am not. Last thing I want to do on my time off is travel as a standby and I just buy a ticket if I really want to go somewhere.
Formal_Syrup_4596@reddit
Yup, I got hired at 27 and my retirement number will be 63.. I’m not going anywhere
SaltyCraka@reddit
28 and retiring at 106. No desire to leave.
Imaloserbabys@reddit
Since you’re early in the game, I would definitely consider switching to Delta, which is one step above.
atc_zero1@reddit
That depends. Which flight is cheaper? An American or dents
LGAflyer@reddit
You’re getting a lot of good advice here, I’m going to give you a slightly different take.
1300 numbers could be the difference between having a job and being furloughed. I know the industry looks great right now but we are one event (recession, stock market “correction”, or maybe an ill thought out war in the Middle East disrupting oil supplies) from back to the bad old days.
I’ve been furloughed twice in 20 years, once from my first regional who had upgrade times at ATP mins when I got hired and on the street in 18 months. And once from Emirates during the pandemic. Both times we went from crazy hiring to no job incredibly fast.
Looking at what’s going on currently I wouldn’t give up 1300 and counting behind you for almost anything.
Just on old crusty guys opinion.
Editor-Powerful@reddit (OP)
Thank you very much for your opinion, sir. Opinions like this are why I posted asking for help. I appreciate your insight.
Surf-pilot23@reddit
My dad made a similar jump you’re considering when I was a kid. Then 9/11 and the Middle East wars happened and he got furloughed. Then 2008. If he’d stayed at his original airline (southwest) he would never have lost his job. The financial stress led to divorce, chronic drinking, and the health problems that followed. 1,300 below him would’ve meant having a job through all of that. Don’t trade a winning lottery ticket for a scratch off
Bombonlito@reddit
Go to DL. The fact you’re asking shows me you’ve made up your mind. Go and don’t look back
Mrs_Fagina@reddit
I’ll say it for the group.
You’re a fucking retard if you leave. You have age and fantastic seniority. Delta is a young seniority list.
Airline financials come and go. When DAL retires their 75/76 fleet and makes a massive capital investment, everyone will be saying the sky is falling there as well.
In 20 years once Ed retires, people may be saying “wow delta lost their way”.
DeltaTule@reddit
I didn’t realize people thought highly of Ed? Bizarre comment imo. He’s nothing special at all
Delicious_Citron_945@reddit
Seniority is everything and AA is not going anywhere.
southpaw301@reddit
Can’t recommend enough the previous recommendations to compare PilotSeniority with Widget SeniorityThis is what I did. My DAL progress to retirement was what I would have been at at AA in half the time…with 10 years to go!
Forget prestige….This will be your life. Are you going to care about your employer’s “prestige” when you’re flying four-day weekend trips for years longer than you would be at another legacy? When you still can’t upgrade when your classmates at your old legacy shop are already holding lines as captains in their preferred base? Is prestige worth starting over on year 1 pay on probation?
I’m not even assuming as others have this thread that the rankings will flip. But the fact is American holds its least amount of debt today than it has since 2014. It is NOT going anywhere.
This is just a job, not an identity. Remember that for the next 35+ years and you’ll be a LOT happier, no matter what company you end up at. Go or stay where the JOB will make you happiest.
Bases, then seniority. The first is personal. The second is objective.
Those the 2 biggest factors in this business to having a successful and fulfilling career when it comes to choosing between legacies.
Good luck!
azbrewcrew@reddit
“Prestige”? Bless your heart. We’re all just line items on a budget. Don’t turn into one of those influencer weenies who makes their “prestigious” job their entire identity. There’s no guarantee you’d get SLC at The Hat right away,likely NYC or something. Answer this,when the music stops (and it will again) do you want to be the plug at The Hat or have 1300+ pilots under you at America West?
KarmaTheBrit@reddit
I’d say you’re taking delta as of right now at face value, delta is in a much better position at this minute. However when they have to make large aircraft purchases and get rid of all of their 717s their balance sheet won’t be as pretty. Delta has a pretty aging fleet. I’d probably just stick with American like you said, seniority is key. Only thing you have going for you is age in that regard. Still well over 30yrs of seniority ahead of you.
iam_sam_iam402@reddit
You should actually give up on an aviation career, clearly it isn’t for you
Helpful-Lion-6316@reddit
Diabolical flex
IHGrewardsking@reddit
Delta is a super well ran airline. Only big three place I’d avoid is AA. You will see a bankruptcy in your career there (downvote all you want but it’s true) seniority progression is only as good as if your airline is making money
Steve-GG@reddit
It’s not how many below but how many above you that counts - spread sheet some scenarios with maybe (planned) fleet growth of your options - but you have a lot of competing interests (house parents etc) - best way to look after all that is to look after yourself
tooflytotry@reddit
Looks like your brains saying AA but your heart is saying Delta.
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
But what's his penis saying?
chadstein@reddit
The FA in the forward galley.
fly_awayyy@reddit
Back Galley is where it’s at
No-Try3904@reddit
Back galley, Col mustard, with a candlestick.
Ok-Exchange2500@reddit
Capt Mustard in this case
RichHair2067@reddit
Dirty Colonel!
SifuT@reddit
Colonel Angus
pontifican_t@reddit
Heyyyooo
Go_Loud762@reddit
Gotta ask first. Some FAs don't like that.
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
Bad penis! Bad!!!
ADinner0fOnions@reddit
Especially when it’s AA and she’s 65 years old!
Mrs_Fagina@reddit
She’s 62 but damn she has heart
whatdoestheregsay@reddit
Ladies and gentlemen, the perfect reply.
CrossBamboAtTen@reddit
Regionals.
Negative_Swan_9459@reddit
Give half away 1-4 times.
junebug172@reddit
Kids these days.
Flying21811@reddit
Congrats and fuck you lol
Old-Trouble-8830@reddit
If there’s no guarantee you will get an offer at American then you’d better be sure about leaving your current opportunity you are leaving now. I’d do anything for a crumb of a quarter of the opportunity you may be gaining or losing.
No matter brother I hope you do great for yourself and congratulations for making it.
RSALT3@reddit
You wanna give up legacy captain in your 20s and 1300 pilots below you for…prestige? All while the country is at war? Between you and the shocking number of flat earthers I’ve shared a flight deck with, we’d have no pilots if the feds implemented mental health screenings.
Taste_My_Noodle@reddit
Brother there’s no right answer. I turned down my Delta CJO to stay at American because my wife liked the bases better. Seniority vs profit sharing blah blah blah, it doesn’t matter. AA has imax if you want money, Delta has profit sharing and better premiums supposedly. Seniority is better at American and you have a head start so that’s a big consideration, but you’re going to be alright either way.
Ultimately pick where you want to live. You already know commuting sucks. You’re going to make money either way. There’s no perfect answer here that any of us can give you.
blimpmech@reddit
I’d stay right there fuck there for the next 4 decades
Mercury4stroke@reddit
OP is getting downvoted for no reason
condor120@reddit
AA still has a lot of retirements coming up. Upgrade is about 2-3 years on both the 737 and Bus.
I would not leave if I were you.
Not_Biracial@reddit
god i wish this was my problem
AtariFerrariNH@reddit
Have you kept your app active at UA? Now that you're at AA, I think they'd be more likely to call, and you're already living in one of the biggest domiciles, plus the training center is right there.
Editor-Powerful@reddit (OP)
Yep, I update the UA app weekly. 4,000 TT, 1,000 121 TPIC, CFII/MEI, 7 LOR's, 1 PPL fail in 2019. 2 hiring conferences. Crickets...
EdBasqueMaster@reddit
If you’re at AA you aren’t paying attention to the fact the financial situation is turning around pretty significantly and the changes the airline have been making are actually significant. Is it going to change overnight? Not a chance. But changes are being made because the C suite realized you can’t just keep saying things, you have to actually do it. Imo you seem to buying a lot into the negativity you’ve been fed either by captains or the internet.
Go on widgetseniority and compare it to pilotseniority
Delta is better by a LOT of metrics… but the seniority difference especially for someone your age is stark. Same with commuter policies and, in my opinion, bases.
You do you, but seniority is everything and you won’t be upgrading anytime soon at Delta.
Overall, if you’re not happy at AA, leave. Someone else will gladly take your place. You are doing what’s best for you.
Simple_Pie_6538@reddit
I have friends that upgraded 2 years in at Delta. Upgraded are starting right now at 3-4 depending on aircraft.
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
Sure, if they got hired in 2022 or early 2023. Upgrades now are 6-8 years. I'm guessing you're not a hat wearer.
wildstop@reddit
Most junior upgrades are around 3 years right now. You can never predict how long an upgrade will take at any give time... I was a UNA from COVID. Not in my wildest prediction did I think I could go from UNA to upgrade in less than 2 years.
I would say upgrade is anywhere from 18 months to 18 years at this point
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
Anyone hired beyond 2023 is looking at at least 5 years. them's the facts.
Simple_Pie_6538@reddit
I am a hat wearer and have widget seniority and track upgrade timelines religiously. It all comes down to hiring. But upgrades are going more and more junior.
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
They're holding steady at 80% system wide.
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
As someone currently at DL, we will never see two year upgrades again in our careers.
Gadget1818@reddit
Due to AA’s size, reach, and name, I would say, like it or not… too big to fail. They will probably always find a way to meander along indefinitely.
gflann858@reddit
Bird in Hand aka 1300 pilots below you
yeshmate@reddit
I’d go to delta.. I always have issues talking contract and pay to my American friends because Deltas is just so much better especially if you want to work a little extra overtime. I think long term you’ll be up significantly both QOL and pay wise even with the seniority hit. That’s not mentioning Americans troubling history of financials.
yeshmate@reddit
I see American guys are downvoting every single “go to delta” comment but I don’t see any comments saying American is the better company to work for.
Plastic_Jaguar_7368@reddit
Admirals club is way better than skyclub
Peacewind152@reddit
My thoughts might be stupid, but given the current instability in the oil markets, perhaps your (small) seniority at AA will keep you flying. Layoffs are possible in the future and the first to go will be the juniors. The fuel crisis is not going away any time soon.
kiwi_love777@reddit
I’m literally not leaving my “Technically American Airlines” airline because of this.
Good job, the guys who purchased us have lots of cash on hand- no need to start over in my late 30’s .
DesertDog185@reddit
Absolutely
Talk to American pilots, then talk to Delta pilots.
Often times when we saw American cruise on a layover, they were pretty jealous of us.
retiredaaer@reddit
No.
AudoBell@reddit
AA is run by incompetent MBAs and their finances are awful. Go Delta for long term stability.
Fit_Sherbet3137@reddit
Fuck Delta because they are ending cabin service on short flights not even a water . Meanwhile foreign carriers provide full services and a meal . The public will revolt soon
Av8Surf@reddit
Tough times on aviation. Times have changed. I remember getting a job with either required you to be a top gun instructor and have a friend walk your resume to hiring board.
Ok-Selection4206@reddit
And a moon landing.
TuwtlesF1@reddit
"Should I sell my Ferrari and buy a McLaren" type comment 😂😂
ajxxxi@reddit
From someone that enjoys planes/aviation but is not a pilot, just based on seniority you currently have and a non-bias perspective, I’d stick with AA. It’s AA, man. Great airline. And 1,500 pilot beneath you already. Ride it out.
Fat_dumb_happy@reddit
My input is this post is an obnoxious humble brag even if you don’t mean it to be. You are asking people to predict the future which if you are in your position I would hope you know is not possible
skyHawk3613@reddit
Leave for Delta. It will open up a spot for me at American
kaatmbmjj@reddit
American Airlines is a company the federal government won't let fail. It's not only a massive employer, it's also "nationally symbolic" company for the United States of America. It's almost up there with Ford and General Motors, etc.
So, only leave for Delta if you have other reasons besides "stability".
ItalianFlyer@reddit
Because the future is unknown, seniority and movement are your best friends. If you can really upgrade after 2 more years, you'd be silly to leave. Upgrade time and time to hold WB FO at DL is averaging 8 years now. Could go down a bit but that's a huge loss financially if you're planning to take the first available.
wildstop@reddit
If you have a class date at delta and are willing to move to SLC or any other delta hub then absolutely take it. Delta has hired about 600 this year but latest word is a total of 1500 on the year. So if you have a class date soon you will catch this wave on the earlier side.
You can also make money as a delta FO. Easily 250-300k by year 2 or 3 pay. Living in base at any airline is the key to QOL and making more money.
Tough decision for sure. My buddies at AA kinda hate working there... No one at delta "hates" working for delta if that makes sense. Could change, who the hell knows. No one has a crystal ball. Good luck
Emergency_Pudding@reddit
Go_Loud762@reddit
And lots of former Spirit pilots.
Clean-Flatworm-2818@reddit
LOL
poser765@reddit
There isn’t a shred of prestige I’d buy at the expense of 1300 numbers below you.
Your 27. You’ll retire in what, lower than 200? Unless you desperately need to live in ATL or MSP you’d be just shy of insane to switch airlines now to chase prestige and public image.
Also 9 months ago we weren’t a country at war. Do you want to erase 1300 below you if the industry tanks?
Embarrassed_Spirit_1@reddit
For real, I can't believe prestige is a motivating factor when it comes to picking companies. I'd shovel shit if it paid me well. Who cares what strangers think about you
airgroundpound69@reddit
A bunch of United glazers have a bone to pick with you
SaltBaeUrMom@reddit
I would stay at AA, seniority progression is much better and that equals QOL and more money. Starting over is a risk and QOL hit. AA could be the best airline in 15 years, who knows. Right now it looks like United is going to be the most profitable and biggest. AA has better bases, way better non-rev benefits, and a quick upgrade / seniority progression. Bloom where you’re planted.
MEtoaviator@reddit
I would stay at American for the quicker upgrade. Btw, unlike Spirit, American is too big to fail.
sweller55@reddit
My friend, you should upgrade at AA and pay off my student loan for me.
indianmcflyer@reddit
Yes, leave for DL and open me a seat at AA
Cascadeflyer61@reddit
A recession may be imminent, keep that cushion of pilots underneath you at AA.
flyinBeech@reddit
Delta could be the next American in 20 years.
American used to be the place to be.
Difficult-While-7673@reddit
You could go to Delta and 10 years from now, Delta could be the worst of the big 4. You just don’t know. You’re a pilot not a shareholder, don’t let the investor talk drive your pilot career decisions.
I say move to base with AA, and enjoy the ride. You’re going to have a great career.
Historical-Pin1069@reddit
Exactly. AA is one of the big 3 and they will be just fine...
Historical-Pin1069@reddit
There is absolutely nothing from with AA future. Just stay where you are. You could even be the youngest chief captain there.
FastJetDriver69@reddit
I would go with Delta unless you plan on moving to an AA base. I’m PHX based at AA, upgraded in 3 years, and spend most my work days chilling at home on short call earning 90+ hours credit per month on year 5 CA pay. Zero regrets going to AA. If I commuted, I would 100% have chosen Delta.
Ari179@reddit
Sup homie. Came here to say this exact thing but MIA.
Mobile_Career_8925@reddit
If you don’t care about base move to DFW
JewofTVC1986@reddit
Just remember any airline is one CEO away from greatness or the shitter
elijahcookiemuhamad@reddit
I’d stay at AA until United calls if you like denver
aviatortrevor@reddit
In this economy? 1300 pilots below you? STAY! Move to base...
johnisom@reddit
SLC is an extremely underrated base. My GF is a FA at Delta and it's so easy to live downtown and then be at the airport in 15 minutes. And the terminal is small and easy to get around, and really nice and modern. I think you'd enjoy it out here.
SpiritFlight404@reddit
Soft pay and QOL items at delta are higher. I’d strongly recommend jumping ship if you have the CJO in hand. As you’ve said American has an uphill battle and Delta will likely keep top or top second slot for the foreseeable future.
Desperate_Exercise13@reddit
Are you happy at AA? Ride the seniority wave and upgrade to always fly with your favorite captain the rest of your career
Raccoon_Ratatouille@reddit
You’d be leaving what is projected to be the fastest growing legacy for the slowest growing legacy. I don’t think AA can suck forever and they seem too big to fail. IMO unless you’re chomping at the bit to live in a DAL hub I’d stay put and ride the seniority elevator. Being incredibly senior incredibly fast will probably be a better QOL than making a smidgeon more at a better run airline and being stuck at the bottom. Especially if you’re going to get above that \~25% furlough danger zone.
Mao_Kwikowski@reddit
Do it. Thats why year one pay is so low. They know people move around until they are happy. If you wait, then change your mind you will be even worse off.
WorkingOnPPL@reddit
Is that really the reason? I always assumed that the airlines treated it like a probation year and wanted to be able to get rid of bad hires as cheaply as possible.
Mao_Kwikowski@reddit
That too. But I’ve know several people who’ve moved between major airlines. They always start at the first place to call and wait for their final destination. But any jump after year one is a big step backwards
scamp9121@reddit
Neither. Figure out why UA isn’t calling. Go to an event. Meet a CP. Go all in for that driving commute.
Unless you want to move. Find someone to share you what the flying looks like at SLC. At DFW, anything is possible. Can’t say the same for SLC but you’ll love the profit sharing checks there.
swakid8@reddit
Realistically, if I was in your shoes, I would stay at AA and keep trying for United….
You will have better seniority progression at AA vs Delta..
Delta is the top dog now, but everyone takes their turns at the top. United will like slide into the top dog position for a bit then AA will take its turn. It goes in cycles.
So don’t read into all the negativity around AA. Things will improve especially once there is finally a management change which is coming sooner rather than later.
Negative_Swan_9459@reddit
Ignore image/product, things will go up and down in 38 years. Don’t make personal identity the company you work for. I think leaving AA would be a mistake. Enjoy the ride, you made it.
ORaleigh@reddit
My (AA pilot) cynical take on the companies situation is they need to stay profitable long enough to keep us out of bankruptcy court and shredding our contract. Until that happens (and it’s no where close to happening) we get to keep cashing our checks same as Delta and United (minus profit sharing). I wouldn’t give up seniority for a profit sharing check.
As far as pride in the business and company… I mostly stick to things I can control. I’m proud to work here and I try and make our airline better. What happens up at the BOD or SkyView doesn’t change that.
skyrider8328@reddit
I'd take Delta. How's the commute to SLC or even SEA?
No-Cell-8208@reddit
41% chance of a recession in 2027 right now. All carriers are cutting capacity in 2H 2026 as of this morning. I’d keep the seniority.
saxmanB737@reddit
Easy. Stay at AA. You have 38 years left. Airlines get better and worse over time so predicting all that is impossible.
Tman3355@reddit
Do you eventually want to get married and have a kid. This job changes drastically when that happens and youd be glad you didnt give up seniority when your trying to bid to get the days off you want and vacation you want for your family.
dlion7700@reddit
Crying in CFI
SlightRelationship67@reddit
You should ask this in the airline pilot sub..
ourpointofview@reddit
Take the job at Delta. They’ll always be ahead of American and the BK is a real possibility at AA
Ok_Big_3300@reddit
American is trash. Go to delta
N205FR@reddit
Yes
Formal_Mechanic_629@reddit
Both are good places to be. I think it comes down to the bases and where you want to live
Mr-Badcat@reddit
If you want to live in den wait for united, from an air line perspective.
Swimming-Ad2568@reddit
I have colleagues who are junior at Delta and love their life. Delta will continue to grow and will inevitably hire a bit of the spirit pilots (fairly soon) under you to cushion your seniority. I’m choosing Delta over AA any day of the week, especially right now. Yes it’s a risk on seniority… but even then a junior pilot at delta lives pretty nice.
Question I would ask yourself is, where would you rather be stuck? I personally would rather be stuck junior at a much more financially stable airline, that’s just me.
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
Picking the best airline is like playing musical chairs. You'll never know if you did it right until the music stops playing (or you retire). If I were you, I'd stay put and keep trying for United.
Sincerely, A hat wearer
BrettSchirley22@reddit
Lot of uncertainty in the world rn to be hopping from a legacy where you have 1300 below you
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Seeking genuine career advice.
I am 26, turning 27 this summer. Currently a pilot at AA, I have been here for 9 months, and have 1,300 pilots below me. I have a class date at Delta, and I am considering leaving. I'd really appreciate any advice, perspective, input, or thoughts.
Domiciles are a wash, I am from Denver, CO (United never called). For Delta, I'd move to SLC or commute there from Denver; for American, I’d move to DFW or PHX or commute from Denver. I am single, no kids, willing to relocate. I could be happy anywhere.
The big draw for me at AA is seniority progression. I could upgrade in 2 years here. I would take the first upgrade and invest heavily in my future, buy a house, help my parents and brother, etc. I want to make as much money as possible, especially while I’m young. However, AA is the weakest financially and operationally in comparison to UA, DL, and WN, and that concerns me. I want to take pride in my company and trust the longevity/profitability/future of the company I work for for the next 38 years.
The draw for DL is its strength, profitability, operation, prestige, brand, stability, and it being the consistent industry leader. All of that is very appealing. DL is worth 40B, AA is worth 7-8B. Big difference. I think DL will have industry-leading contracts before other carriers get them. However, seniority progression is much slower at DL. From what I have been told and discovered from playing with seniority tools, upgrade times will be 7-8 years for anyone hired today. The wait for a widebody would be similar. That time is trending down as DL is hiring more, but still slower than American. I already have 1,300 below me at AA, and I’d be starting from the bottom again on a slower-moving list.
However, the future is not known, and just because something is true today, doesn’t mean it’ll be true tomorrow. AA could make a comeback, and then I would greatly regret leaving, or Delta could grow more than expected, and I would regret staying.
If I leave American, would I be making a worthwhile seniority sacrifice for a better company, or would I be making a foolish decision chasing today’s best thing?
I realize how lucky I am. Timing is everything. This industry is unfair.
I would really appreciate any advice, perspective, input, or thoughts. Sincerely, thank you for your time.
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