Do you view America as a young country or an old one?
Posted by palep_hoot@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 440 comments
I've heard a lot of people say that America is a young country, because 97% of Americans have ancestors who arrived in only the last ~500 years. But America has one of the older surviving governments, and the second oldest constitution after San Marino. Do you view America as a young country or an old country?
scipio0421@reddit
I would say it's kinda middle aged. Younger than the truly old cultures like in Europe or East Asia, but older than a lot of other countries at the same time.
BelethorsGeneralShit@reddit
It's often said that America is one of the youngest countries with one of the oldest governments, which is pretty accurate. It has the oldest written national constitution still in use today.
To answer your title question, I think most people would consider America a pretty young country at "just" 250 years, while there are tons of other nations that can back far far further than that. Although in that same 250 years, a country like France has had five republics, two empires, and a monarchy.
Hoopajoops@reddit
Yup. The idea of a "country" didn't really exist before we were founded. It was empires led by local lordes. The lines drawn on maid is not a good representation of what the historical lines
Chance-Ad197@reddit
That simply isn’t true.
Athens, 5th Century BC. Citizens directly made decisions in a direct democracy. Legislation was a communal act, the elected leader of the nation did not have the power to assert dictation over the peoples vote, They only had the responsibility of upholding whatever was voted for, as well as acting as the nations primary representative for the voice of the people on the world stage.
Vaishali (modern day India) Considered one of the first examples of a republic around the 6th century BC.
San Marino, 301 AD. Claims to be the oldest existing republic, with a written constitution dating from 1600.
Iceland, 930 AD. The Althing was founded as a national parliament, and regardless of trumps unhinged tactics, is a nation of its own.
You’re thinking of literally just mediaeval Europe and Middle East
mmodo@reddit
I think a lot of this discussion revolves around culture and land being occupied by someone. Many europeans like to rib about how Americans are awed by things that are 200 years old while they walk by things that are 500 years old with no pause. I think the idea is that because it's on French or Italian soil, it is inherently French or Italian because that's the modern governing power. The length of constitution is irrelevant in those discussions.
By that branch though, the Americas were "discovered" in the European sense at the turn of the 16th century so their definition of civilization is the limiting factor in the comparison. The US as a concept of a nation (starting from the colonies) is older than it's constitutional age. There are even Native American buildings that are still standing from circa 800-1000 AD.
To me, it's not a fair comparison if the definition is only on the terms to make one party always look good or "win".
PacSan300@reddit
Even the “culture” aspect to define a nation is quite nebulous at best. Culture changes over time, and there is just no way that the culture in a place is the same today as it was hundreds of years ago. The people who built those old churches lived in a significantly different culture and society than their descendants do today.
shelwood46@reddit
Thinking about all those "traditional" cuisines that center around foods that didn't exist on their continent until at least 1500.
lolafawn98@reddit
even this is very, very old in food terms. it’s surprising to learn how many traditional dishes are from literally like the 1890s.
mmodo@reddit
Sure, it's a matter of cherry picking information to feel superior most of the time. Just as Europeans get mad at Americans talking about Irish or Italian ancestry, they're not anymore related to their Túath or Roman ancestors from centuries ago either.
BigPapaPaegan@reddit
These same Europeans will then refer to a third generation native of Middle Eastern ancestry by whatever slur fits.
...similar to what the Irish and Italian immigrants who came to the US faced.
LeastInsurance8578@reddit
I’ve never heard a Brit to claim to be English-Roman or a Frenchman to be French-Gaul
Frodo34x@reddit
Perhaps not the English-Romans, but I've definitely seen a lot of people invoking Pictish blood, "This is why the Romans had to stop and build a wall", "We're from Viking stock up here" or things of a similar ilk where they're relying on stereotypes about ancestors from a thousand+ years ago.
I would say you don't see "English-Roman" for a similar reason why few Americans focus on their English heritage.
ExplanationNo8603@reddit
I'll disagree for the fun of it, and say that you have a good point.
Culture is an ever change thing day by day slow changes happen. So sure comparing today's culture to one 300 years age are going to be different much like a 25 yo is different then they were at 5 but they are still the same person.
America is like the "marriage" of cultures (polyamorous of course haha) we all still have are own different cultures but the longer we are here the more we are losing it as we become one and melting together
No_Walk_Town@reddit
People are VERY selective about that.
"What? French colonialism? Happened before I was born, nothing to do with me."
"Oh, this ancient cathedral? Yes, of course, my precious national heritage, one of my culture's greatest achievements."
Yeah, no, pick one.
UnarmedSnail@reddit
Those French people were a very different culture when the Roman ruins there were built.
blessings-of-rathma@reddit
Colonizers of the Americas destroyed or downplayed all the ancient stuff they found here, because they needed excuses to treat the indigenous people like they were subhuman, and erasing other cultures' achievements probably also helped support the whole manifest destiny idea.
mmodo@reddit
It 100% did. That was the whole point of it.
I think Europeans are just blind to their part in it because they still perpetuate some of that superiority while pointing at Americans (and Canadians) as horrible colonizers who mistreated black people and natives.
nc45y445@reddit
Seriously, as a non-white American I have never understood why Europeans are so quick to disown their own diaspora and also pretend like they had no part in the results of their colonization or slave trade. They’re all, we’re just sitting around drinking our tiny coffees, we had nothing to do with that mess . . . .
StarWars_Girl_@reddit
Yep, they act very superior because "well, we banned slavery first." Uh huh. And where exactly was the sugar in your tea coming from?
I also feel like they think they cannot possibly be racist because they outlawed slavery so long ago, as if they never, ever did anything to hurt other races. I'm white, so I haven't experienced racism, but I will call out other white people when I see it. The stuff Europeans have said compared to white Americans...I'm like, did y'all even give two seconds of thought before you said that?
No-Mouse4800@reddit
Europeans are way less conscious of casual racism than white Americans. I hear Europeans make comments all the time that would instantly get someone sent to HR in the US. Also, how common is to for white American throw bananas onto a football field at black players which is well-documented in Europe? Europeans (or course not all) are often very smug about "racist Americans" but some of their actions tell a very different story.
nc45y445@reddit
Total hypocrisy. I have experienced more overt racism as a tourist than I have in my 60 years as an American citizen who has lived on both coasts, the Midwest and Texas
rainzephyr@reddit
Same. I moved to Ireland, I’m even from the Deep South, and without a shadow of doubt Europe is more racist. I experience racist behavior almost everyday in Europe including hostile looks just for being not white. In the Deep South, I barely had racist incidents, maybe I could count on one hand and even then the racism I experienced in America was child’s play compared to the racism I experienced in Europe.
haibiji@reddit
One time in a Reddit thread I encountered some Europeans discussing Romani people. One user made a comment that was overtly racist, which was very shocking to me. After I pointed it out I was downvoted and several people jumped to defend it because “you don’t get it because you don’t have Romani people in the US. It’s not racist like you guys are with black and brown people, we don’t hate them just because they are Romani, we hate them because they are thieves and don’t even try to assimilate into our culture.”
I think a lot of people think “racism” at least in the US is just holding the belief that people with dark skin are bad, they don’t realize that all the ways Americans use to justify racism are the exact same things they are using to justify their own prejudice
a_serious-man@reddit
Yes yes yes this. I’m a big soccer fan but imagine if banana peels got thrown at players in the NFL or NBA like it does in Europe. Cities would literally burn with righteous anger.
nc45y445@reddit
Yep, and it’s especially galling that no-one talks about the role of the British in Israel/Palestine, India/Pakistan or any of the other issues they created
HavBoWilTrvl@reddit
As a white American, I agree with you 100%.
Where did those horrible American colonizers happen to come from? Could it be that part of why Americans are such horrible colonizers while those in European countries aren't is because we had the nerve to break off from them? 🤔
Zestyclose-Basis-332@reddit
Don't ask those people about what colony the majority of the Atlantic slave trade sent people to.
What would become the USA received around 5%
Remote_Ocelot9600@reddit
Or ask who started the trade. Who largely benefitted from it. Etc.
Figgler@reddit
I've seen both Dutch and Spanish people on here claiming that the US was the biggest perpetrator of slavery, I was kind of amazed they were that ignorant of history.
a_serious-man@reddit
The US reckons with their past - Europe often buries, hides, and ignore it thinking their egalitarian ideals keep them above it
onarainyafternoon@reddit
I don't even know if you understand how correct you are. It isn't just this, though. It's that Euros don't understand ethnicity when an Irish-American wants to claim it; but when a brown German man wants to claim being "German", you have Euros coming out of the woodwork to say, "He's a German of TURKISH ORIGIN!!!". Suddenly they understand ethnicity real-well.
nc45y445@reddit
Oh we brown Americans, who are unambiguously American, understand it quite well
a_serious-man@reddit
Yep, apparently racism is a uniquely American concept. They spent years preaching about America being racist while living in ethnically homogenous societies, and now that they have a little bit of diversity they’re losing their minds. Meanwhile America has been diverse for so long that most people take it for granted that they’ll see people of different races everywhere. We’ve moved past the hiding of our problems to somewhere in between admitting our problems and fixing them
MattieShoes@reddit
Their egalitarian ideals unless it's refugees, Muslims, Romani... Then it's "no no, that's different!"
a_serious-man@reddit
What we call racism they call nationalism and somehow theirs is ok
KriegConscript@reddit
"i don't hate their race, i just hate their culture and way of life and don't like seeing them in public"
Beginning-Olive-3745@reddit
I know this number is well meaning and used to make the US slave trade already smaller, but it does not tell the story. Majority of American slaves from the trade initially arrived in various Caribbean ports and were migrated or transshipped through trade to other ports afterwards in the US
Zestyclose-Basis-332@reddit
The only numbers I can find cite some 60,000 - 70,000
"seasoned" to the US after an initial destination in the Caribbean. Of course appalling but a small portion of those slaves that were directly imported to the US and a tiny fraction of the whole picture.
Brazil received nearly 5 million for context.
The majority of American slaves were born into it, in America.
Muvseevum@reddit
Given that it was mostly Europeans who settled the US, I don’t see that they have much to crow about either.
notacanuckskibum@reddit
The people who currently live in Europe believe they are descendants of people who didn’t go to the USA and weren’t involved in whatever happened there. Their ancestors were just quietly farming the land in Europe.
nc45y445@reddit
So they don’t use potatoes, tomatoes, chili peppers, or any other New World crop? Or drink coffee? Or tea? Or consume sugar? Or chocolate? Or cinnamon? Or benefit at all from their rape of the rest of the world?
notacanuckskibum@reddit
Of course they use those things. They buy them at fair market price. They aren’t made using slave labour today. I’m not sure that I see the relevance.
Does buying a Braun Shaver today imply support for the Nazi regime of 80 years ago?
thatthatguy@reddit
The number of indigenous place names still in use stands in opposition to your thesis. If the goal was to erase the culture, why continue to use their words?
rileyoneill@reddit
I think people greatly overplay the erasure as being some sort of cultural goal when it was really more of a convenience thing. The Americans needed land and access to the Pacific Ocean and people were in the way. Bad things happened to those people. But it wasn't like "hmmm, lets get those people cause we hate them, oh hey guys, look an ocean, maybe we can do ports on this side too!".
The 1906 Antiquities Act started the preservation of Native American artifacts. Not really the sort of thing people do if they are deliberately trying to erase everything.
Holiday_Entrance7245@reddit
I think you are giving them too much credit suggesting they feel the need for an excuss.
LyaCrow@reddit
It’s always a mix of funny and frustrating because of the degree of ethnocentrism being displayed but I live just outside of a place that used to be called Tse-Whit-Zen that had been continuously occupied at least part of the year for 2,700 years. I’m a short hike away from a sacred rock that used to be a site for hunters to watch for mammoth from. America is only “new” if you start history from after colonization which is a revealing choice.
sonic_dick@reddit
There are petroglyphs and hieroglyphs a few hours drive from me that are 2,000 years old.
nc45y445@reddit
It’s mostly Europeans who say this,
they have zero regard for the indigenous history of the Americas. Mexico City and Quito are as old as any city in Britain or France
Il_Will@reddit
One thing I liked about visiting Italy was seeing of the history in layers of Italian cities that predate ANY notion of Italy.
TeamTurnus@reddit
Yah, its a weird land=culture equivalence because even if the colonizing folks in the america completely destroyed the existing culture (which isnt entirely true though it makes sense as a generalization) they still brought their own and didnt like Immediately abandon it just because they didnt live on a land we call (after modern nationstate building in the 1600-1900s) anymore.
Sanjomo@reddit
Ummm what? You make as little sense here as Europeans who try to make the same argument. The age of the country as ‘America’ isn’t really up for debate. Nor is The age of Italy or France. Italy was unified in 1861 and became a functioning republic in 1946. The Republic of France was formed in 1792. Now any country can ‘claim’ the people that came before them as ‘their own countries history’ but that’s not accurate by definition of ‘country’ and governance. So if Italy can claim the Roman Empire as the Republic of Italy’s history than the US can claim the lands native people as the ‘United States history’ which is equally inaccurate. The Pueblo structures in Mesa Verda were built in 1180 the ‘Earth Work Mounds’ at LSU are thought to be 11,000 years (older than the pyramids). Sooooo it’s a relative to comparison
ImpressiveWalrus7369@reddit
Thanks AI 🙄
BelethorsGeneralShit@reddit
Is there a sub yet for people incorrectly calling stuff AI?
I'm sorry that your educational background is such that you assume if something has proper grammar and a basic command of 10th grade world history, you assume it must be AI.
ImpressiveWalrus7369@reddit
Literally from Google’s AI overview when you put in the thread title…
“The United States is often described as a young country with one of the oldest, most stable governments. While only around 250 years old as a nation, it operates under one of the world's oldest written constitutions, highlighting a paradox between its relatively short history and its deep institutional stability.”
BelethorsGeneralShit@reddit
I would expect something very much like that because it's a perfectly reasonable answer to OPs question that a normal person would write.
The phrase "one of the youngest countries with one of the oldest governments" is a common saying. Of course it included that.
And are you mystified that both a human and AI both mentioned that America is 250 years old, given that the topic of the question is about America's age??
What did you expect it to output? A recipe for oatmeal raisin cookies?
Chance-Ad197@reddit
Standing firm and dying on hills that men built for the society that existed in the same place 250 years ago is really starting to show its ago tho, must admit. In the last 20 years, there has been too many instances of America coming up short on her potential in the name of upholding systems and documents that are hardly even relevant to the reality of today. And I’m not going to lie, looks pretty goofy when people start defending what is clearly a less effective and less efficient method of approach to important and impactful things compared to what a modernized legislation and/or declaration could amount to, for no other reason than we are taught it’s extremely important to the integrity of the United States for everyone to cherish those old documents like they’re original scripture.
Knittin_hats@reddit
That's a really interesting point I hadn't heard before
ThirdSunRising@reddit
Nineteen years is a young man but an old dog.
So. Young or old should be viewed in context of the future, no? Is America just getting started, or is it falling apart?
Emily_Postal@reddit
Youngish.
West_Guidance2167@reddit
I guess I’ve never really thought about it. It’s young I suppose but does not affect my day.
Optimistbott@reddit
The U.S. is a settler colonial state that got away with genocide that still doesn’t understand that this is a country for everyone. I think it’s a young state
No_Walk_Town@reddit
While this is true, in a conversation comparing the US to Europe, this is really not a great point.
By this standard, America is ahead of Europe, by a lot.
Optimistbott@reddit
They literally nearly wiped out all the people who had previously been living in North America.
No_Walk_Town@reddit
"They"? Don't you mean "we"?
Also, yes? Americans understand and acknowledge that.
We are better at acknowledging that history than most other post-colonial nations.
By your standard, would we not be "older" since we are more mature and better at addressing these issues?
Optimistbott@reddit
We vs they. “They” lived in the past. “They” are the ones that committed genocide. *i* am not that. *both of us* (unless you are a time traveler) are not those people and there is no reason to defend them.
As an American, I did not personally do it. That’s why I say “they”. I am not the racist founding fathers nor the people on the money. Anyways, some of my great grandparents moved to New York and Chicago in like the 1880s.
And yes, that’s the thing. We are better at accepting diversity. We should be far better than them. This is a nation of immigrants. It’s everyone’s country because of the mass murder and memoricide that happened here.
No_Walk_Town@reddit
Whoah, back up. Nobody's defending them. Be honest now.
Indigenous people didn't just disappear. They still exist. They didn't magically get their land back.
That's now, today. You don't get to just disown that. It's not "them" it's "us."
Memoricide? Again, most Americans don't disown this history the way you do.
Lost-Humor-5964@reddit
It’s a young empire.
MsPooka@reddit
It's kind of sematic question. The US is older than The UK since the US was created in 1776 and the UK in 1801, but obviously, the parts of the UK are much older. The US is the oldest current democracy in the world, does that make us the oldest country? The real question is why does it matter? No one cares except for people who want to make this some kind of point of pride. I hope everyone in the world has pride in their country, but to ask the US if we "feel young" isn't about other countries having pride in themselves but using that as some kind of metric of greatness, which it's not.
FlyingCupcake68@reddit
Young. I’m reminded of the story of the Chinese diplomat in the early 1970s who said that it was still too soon to tell if the French Revolution was good.
rapiertwit@reddit
Politically pretty old, as in uninterrupted continuous government with no overthrow or major change of government.
Culturally very young.
deejay312@reddit
Of course, it is an OLD one. Anyone arguing differently is not informed. It is very common misunderstanding that there are all of these ‘ancient’ nations. There are hardly any older nations on the globe - the very thought of a ‘Germany’ or ‘Italy’ or Brazil’ is younger than America. Nation states are mostly a newish concept on the scale of human history. If we are looking at 1776 - America is a very old ‘country’. Period.
DeerEngineer@reddit
I'd saaayyyy.... young country run by old people
ByronScottJones@reddit
I find the "America is a young country" argument usually precedes someone telling me why America is wrong for doing something differently than Europe. And usually it's something absurd like electricity voltage, date ordering, and other things where the age of the country plays no role.
Interesting_Neck609@reddit
Early lightbulb filament (lets not do the tesla/edison thing) worked well at 110v.
Once Europe got electricity, manufacturing of the filaments had developed a bit. Higher voltages means smaller transmission lines, and copper/aluminum trade was pretty bad in most of Europe in the early 1920s for some reason. I cant find the book, but at one point during WW1, German equipment ran at 16 2/3hz. (50÷3) and most everyone else went for the 50hz because with AC power the flicker isnt as noticeable at 50hz vs 60.
I can rant for days on this nonsense, its even ruined the electric cars, but thats partially chicken tax.
You can get some European equipment ro run at american voltages, and its quite funny to do. Specifically a lot of rectifier circuits have overcurrent protection that is just a tiny switch. Dont do this if you dont understand much about electrical, you can accidentally let a lot of angry pixies out. (Its usually worse the other way, but people dont solder like they used to.)
Cudi_buddy@reddit
Yep. For all the shit Americans get (plenty deserved elsewhere of course), Europeans on Reddit are the most obnoxious group as a whole.
AtlasThe1st@reddit
Honestly, Ive found that much of the actual pointless condescension comes from Australians more than Europeans
Radiant-Toe3004@reddit
Old country
MrLongWalk@reddit
It depends how you define country, is it an issue of government? Of culture?
Ladonnacinica@reddit
Yeah, I remember arguing with an European who said the USA was barely a country given its young age. And I remarked how Italy is younger (unified in 1861). He retorted “but there was culture there already” as if the USA was just empty. And no cultures existed here prior to 1776.
SlippingAwayWith@reddit
Americans magically sprang up from the from the ground, apparently.
Immigrants arrive as blank slates. They don’t bring their culture, traditions, folklore, recipes, etc. with them.
Immigration to the US also ended in 1776.
Ladonnacinica@reddit
They don’t see immigrants as “real” Americans. Hell, I once spoke to someone from Western Europe who said America had no authentic music, etc. I mentioned how there’s Jazz, Rock n’ Roll and they said “but black people made that”. I was like “so??? They’re also Americans!”
They had a very limited opinion on who was American.
PacSan300@reddit
As I am neither white nor black, a lot of people I met outside the US didn’t seem to believe I was American when I told them.
Pristine-Dingo6199@reddit
I was an exchange student in France in 1980 and got into an arguement with a woman at a bus stop over whether or not I am American. She said couldnt possibly be American because I short, dark haired, brown eyed and look more mediterrian. Also, I spoke French. 🤷♂️
MrLongWalk@reddit
I look like a skinny Shane Gillis and have a pretty strong Boston accent, they only started considering me American when it was convenient to disregard my input.
Ladonnacinica@reddit
Same here as a brown woman.
AtlasThe1st@reddit
Always amuses me how unintentionally racist Europeans can be
BeepCheeper@reddit
The vast majority of people of color there haven’t been living alongside them as long as people of color here. It’s almost like they’re still coping. They don’t see immigrants from former colonies as fellow countryman.
For all of our racial problems, the average American knows from a young age that another American could look like anybody.
e-m-o-o@reddit
Yep, their views are, unsurprisingly, Eurocentric. When pressed, they often will eventually admit to completely discounting indigenous history.
No_Walk_Town@reddit
Europeans in general have a really difficult time grasping basic social scientific facts.
They use an incredibly archaic, unscientific definition of "culture" (basically the 1800's idea that material artifacts are "culture", in other words, everything they know about social science is from watching Indiana Jones once).
By that archaic, unscientific definition, America "has no culture." They also see culture in terms of ethnostates - one country = one culture to them, and assimilation is mandatory to be considered a "real" Italian.
America has tried forcing minorities to assimilate into the ethnic majority culture, but it, uh, doesn't work, and it's barbaric. A lot of people still want to keep trying it, but there's always resistance.
PacSan300@reddit
Treating it like there was no cultures in the US prior to 1776 is actually appalling when you consider the thriving Native American cultures that were present long before that, and especially when you consider the horrible treatment they got by settlers over the centuries.
Derwin0@reddit
By that Europeans reconning, the US is over 400 years old as Jamestown was founded in 1607.
No_Walk_Town@reddit
Part of this is that Europeans see country and culture in terms of ethnostates. You'll hear things like "anyone can be Italian IF AND ONLY IF they speak my language and follow my culture."
They've redefined "civic nationalism" as "actually the ethnic majority decides what the national character is (and minorities must submit to it)."
Note that this is literally just Japanese style artificial homogeneity.
The American right LOVES this and wants it for themselves, but it's unAmerican.
Sad_Pie_3862@reddit
Both of those things can be true at the same time.
MrLongWalk@reddit
Absolutely but switching which one is the benchmark for how long a country has existed is simply bad faith.
WhoSaidWhatNow2026@reddit
A country is a geopolitical construct, so government is the only definition that makes sense.
JCaird@reddit
America is a middle-aged country. Hence the current mid-life crisis.
Positive_Wheel_7065@reddit
When I travel internationally I try to go drink at a bar that is older than my country. Berlin was a bit tough, most of that was built post 1945, but I found a sweet pub in a basement that opened in the 1640's.
Ok-Dealer4350@reddit
I think it is a failing country right now.
My mother would tell my father that all countries and then fall. Think Rome or the Hapsburg Austria Hungarian Empire or any banana republic.
BelligerentWyvern@reddit
The US is one of the oldest countries. Most other countries we have today were formed in their current state after America started to exist.
Many overall civilizations may have existed longer but the American govt is one of the oldest and most stable sovereign states atm.
Vulpix_lover@reddit
If I'm not mistaken, we have the longest running government in the world, everyone else has gone through many different changes
Hefty_Tip7383@reddit
The UK is longer running for one.
Mediocre_Daikon6935@reddit
No. Because the England and Scotland are now just States, same as wales.
The Crown combined them. She is younger then us.
Hefty_Tip7383@reddit
However, combined before the USA existed so…
Mediocre_Daikon6935@reddit
1801?
Hefty_Tip7383@reddit
What happened in 1801?
Peterd1900@reddit
The Kingdom of Great Britain merged with the Kingdom Of Ireland to from the United Kingdom
The UK did not exist before 1801
Scotland and England merged in 1707 forming the sovereign state called Kingdom of Great Britain
That merged with Ireland in 1801 to form the United Kingdom
The countries that made up the UK did not combine until after the USA
Hefty_Tip7383@reddit
When the US annexed Hawaii did the clock reset? The polity of the UK pre existed the royal rebranding.
AtlasThe1st@reddit
Depending how you look at it, the UK can be as old as 1707, or as young as 1927. 1707 be8ng the unification of England and Scotland, and 1927 being when Ireland split off
Hefty_Tip7383@reddit
If you’re considering territorial changes as resetting then nowt applies. First PM predates the USA.
StandardAd239@reddit
I believe San Marino takes that title.
PacSan300@reddit
San Marino is supposedly the world’s oldest republic, but not sure if it had oldest continuously running government.
StandardAd239@reddit
From what I can find, they take that trophy
KinglanderOfTheEast@reddit
The United States is the oldest continuously running constitutional government, San Marino is the oldest republic. Some sources claim that New Zealand has the longest "same government continously in power", but to my understanding it is the United States.
Mediocre_Daikon6935@reddit
There are a couple that are older. Very small nations, about the size of a county.
AtlasThe1st@reddit
Read that as "Very small nations, about the size of a country" at first, and was like "I mean... yeah?"
LtPowers@reddit
Not the UK?
Soft-Ratio3433@reddit
The UK formed in 1800
LtPowers@reddit
No, the UK annexed Ireland in 1801. The United Kingdom formed in 1707.
Soft-Ratio3433@reddit
It by definition wasn’t a united kingdom until 1801 because the monarch ruled two kingdoms, Great Britain and Ireland
LtPowers@reddit
It most certainly was. "The United Kingdom of Great Britain" it was called.
Soft-Ratio3433@reddit
You added united there when it’s just Kingdom of Great Britain
LtPowers@reddit
Hm, you may be right. Many sources do use "United Kingdom of Great Britain" but it appears to have been unofficial until 1801.
Derwin0@reddit
UK was formed by the mergers of the English and Scottish parliaments.
Ireland was absorbed into the UK.
So the political union is considered to be 1707 as that’s when the United Kingdom Parliament was founded.
Soft-Ratio3433@reddit
I can admit that it was a united kingdom, but not THE United Kingdom
simonjp@reddit
Depends on whether you include the Glorious Revolution, the English Civil War, the Act of Union, etc I guess
LtPowers@reddit
Those all predated the U.S.
simonjp@reddit
Oh absolutely. There seem to be a lot of people on here who are arguing that the specific style of government makes or breaks the "same country" argument and I'll be honest I'm not looking for a fight. Just a few ideas for why they might be making that claim.
Vulpix_lover@reddit
Their government has changed multiple times, I don't mean leadership, I mean the government itself
LtPowers@reddit
Yes, but not since before the U.S. formed.
r2d3x9@reddit
Other countries often think we’re old enough to eff with, lol
Human_Management8541@reddit
The US is young, but Europe never thinks about the native american civilizations. The Clovis people had government and writing 8,000 years before the Minoans, and 10,000 years before the rest of Europe. We had pyramids before Egypt. But, being brown people, they dont count.
Ketchup_is_my_jam@reddit
Smack dab in the middle of a midlife crisis.
OldBlue2014@reddit
How about an immature country?
science_nerdd@reddit
The USA as we see it today, is “young”. The American peoples (as in the natural inhabitants of North America and islands that spans the entire USA) is ancient.
needmoarbass@reddit
Feels like a baby to me. Seeing the history in other countries always blows my mind. The buildings and landmarks and churches and cobblestone. It’s crazy how old the rest of the world feels to me.
Regnum90@reddit
A dead one, actually. The US is a corpse that just hasn't fallen over ywt. There is no coming back from the shit storm we've inflicted upon ourselves. Best case scenario, this country becomes a lawless No Man's land and people learn how to adapt and survive in smaller communities. Worst case and the more likely of the scenarios, corporations take over and control the country through private militaries and unchecked technological developments.
Ozone220@reddit
young country for the immigration reason you mentioned. It's one of few countries so entirely shaped by immigrants, rivalled by the other American countries but even most of them have more indigenous representation. Nearly all of us here have at least some ancestors only a few generations back that spoke a language other than english
Dull-Geologist-8204@reddit
Middle aged
Accomplished_Mix7827@reddit
I suppose it depends if you define a country by its constitution or its people.
The American people is young. It's not like England or China or Iran where families have lived in the same town since time immemorial.
But it's had the same constitution and the same general territory for much longer than most countries.
It also depends if your point of comparison is, like, France, or the whole post-colonial world
Hastur13@reddit
I used to view it as a young country until I learned about the many many countries in Africa and elsewhere that had thrown off colonial rule in the 21st century.
MaccyBoiLaren@reddit
It's been around in its current form for longer than anyone alive can remember, which is more than you can say for basically every other country in the world. It doesn't have the super deep, rich history that many other nations have, but in terms of pure existing, it's actually fairly old.
LeastInsurance8578@reddit
The USA has been around in its current form since 1959
MaccyBoiLaren@reddit
Seems a bit arbitrary. What's the criteria there?
SJHillman@reddit
I'm assuming they're referring to Alaska and Hawai'i gaining statehood in 1959, which gave the map and flag their current form. I don't particularly agree with that take, but it's the only thing I can think about 1959 that was significant.
LeastInsurance8578@reddit
Well the argument that other countries have changed over time is no different to how the the US has changed over time, the original US was 13 states, it’s now 50, the format of Government has changed as well, senators were not originally elected by the people, slaves were only 3/5 of a person
MaccyBoiLaren@reddit
There certainly have been changes, but nothing so foundational that you could consider it a different entity. Most of Europe was occupied either by Germany or the Soviet Union and had their government and culture flipped on its head, or went from empire to not-empire. Most of Africa and Asia have been completely redrawn politically, and South America didn't really start having its own wave of independence until the 19th century.
The US has more or less just been there. Pushing westward, sure, but it already had nominal control over everything from coast to coast by 1850. Things got redrawn or amended internally, there was a civil war that ended with "status quo but better", but that's about it. It's more or less the same entity as it was 250 years ago, just bigger.
FunImprovement166@reddit
We aren't young'uns like Italy and Germany. Always like cheering on those whippersnappers
LilacOn_Green57934@reddit
lol- those countries date to 1870 and 1871. No way you didn’t know that post this comment.
FunImprovement166@reddit
Omg!
cranberry_spike@reddit
It's kind of hilarious how young they actually are, when you think about it. Most or all of my forebears were out of Prussia before it merged to become Germany.
CTMalum@reddit
Exactly. Their cities and settlements are much older obviously, but their countries as they exist today are almost all ‘younger’ than the United States.
cranberry_spike@reddit
I think that's totally what throws us. A lot of the ancient sites here in the lower 48 are no longer inhabited, like Cahokia or the Ancestral Pueblo cities, whereas like Kyiv or Szczecin or Barcelona have been continuously inhabited for a really long time.
PacSan300@reddit
Indeed, both did not complete their unification until 1871.
An8thOfFeanor@reddit
We're very young as a land, but quite old as a nation
getElephantById@reddit
It's young as a nation, middle-aged as a land, a bit of a silver fox as a country, and old as a landmass. Hope that helps.
Shoddy_Consequence78@reddit
Hey now, the craton doesn't look a day over 3.5 billion.
venturashe@reddit
?
An8thOfFeanor@reddit
In terms of nationhood, America is comparatively old. Most European nation-states didn't come into existence until after the Napoleonic Era, and even France didn't become a nation-state until after the American Revolution.
Bobcat2013@reddit
My family claims Czechoslovakia but my when my great great grandparents moved over they were still part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
cranberry_spike@reddit
That side of my dad's people would be Polish if they were still over there. They all came out of Baltic ports. It's kind of fascinating.
baycommuter@reddit
My grandparents’ immigration forms say they came from Russia (via the Baltics) but in 2022 everyone started saying they were from Ukraine. Before that nobody knew the difference.
HurtsCauseItMatters@reddit
I guess its the difference between modern government and culture. People also forget that there were between 5-10 settlements in the area that would become the british colonies by 1630 plus the oldest N. American settlement in Florida, St. Aug.
Sometimes it feels like people just ignore everything outside of the original 13 colonies or anything older than 1776. I probably would feel less that way if I lived somewhere where I was surrounded by history like in New England or even St. Augustine or near the older settlements in Canada.
cranberry_spike@reddit
I assume you're talking the European colonial settlements of the Dutch, French, Spanish, since there were a lot more than 10 Indigenous settlements.
Lovebeingadad54321@reddit
Exactly. In our home state we have ruins of Mississippian culture that date back to ≈ 1000 CE. There is also Pueblo culture buildings that date back at least as far as that.
cranberry_spike@reddit
Yep I was thinking about Cahokia to be honest. My ancestors were running around stealing people's cows and slinging stuff off clinkers in Ireland and Germany while there were vast civilizations here.
HurtsCauseItMatters@reddit
yes
HurtsCauseItMatters@reddit
You forgot New Sweden if we're going to be pedantic about what was said.
How exactly would talking about indigenous settlements be contextually relevant when discussing the creation of early america, its government, and the culture of the europeans creating that government? I don't mind being corrected but this feels like nothing more than virtue signaling.
If I meant to be discussing Cahokia, Poverty Point, Tenochtitlan, Kaskaskia or any of the smaller settlements i would have done so but I intentionally didn't even name the european settlements because specific locations weren't the point.
jamshid666@reddit
It was still the Holy Roman Empire when a significant number of my ancestors migrated to this side of the Atlantic
JustafanIV@reddit
People tend to forget that the USA and HRE coexisted for about 30 years.
Realtrain@reddit
Unfortunately they never hear formal diplomatic relations
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7tnb1z/there_was_a_23_year_period_between_the_peace_of/dtfiox3/
cranberry_spike@reddit
The Holy Roman Empire is both bizarre and fascinating. It's legitimately astounding how long it lasted!
klugh57@reddit
Especially considering it wasn't holy, Roman, or an empire
EcstaticYoghurt7467@reddit
Discuss....
Butitsadryheat2@reddit
You...are like buttah.
Sabertooth767@reddit
That's rather overstated in pop culture. While the HRE was in no way a unified state, that does not mean the Emperor was merely a ceremonial position. Austria did, after all possess the third largest army in Europe during the Napoleonic Wars (behind Russia and France)
itcheyness@reddit
It also inspired one of my favorite fantasy nations (The Sigmarite Empire in Warhammer Fantasy) which is fun.
FunImprovement166@reddit
Those crazy kids!
ArkansasTravelier@reddit
Forebears lol takes me back to Varg Vikernes videos from 10 years ago
pseudonym7083@reddit
Yet they like to act like they are older. Out of all involved in the shit of the last 100+ years, who has had war on their own soil and who has not?
PM_ME_UR__SECRETS@reddit
I had to look it up. I had no idea Italy was so young of a country!
smartie_mcfarty@reddit
My husband and I talk about this from time to time. He’s bummed that America is so “young”. And he’s really jealous that Europeans can walk through a farmers field with a metal detector and find some ancient Roman or Viking relic and the most we find here is a Native American arrowhead.
Fresh_Salt7087@reddit
Young country.
Wunktacular@reddit
Our system of government is one of the oldest. It allows enough freedom that elections really can change the regime.
And although we haven't been an independent nation (or union, depending on the time period) the entire time, we did have the Continental Congress and colonial governments before then.
StandardAd239@reddit
When you add in the electoral college, gerrymandering, an executive who doesn't follow separation of powers, and no lifetime limits for Congress or the Supreme Court....well we have a very difficult hurdle in changing anything.
Wunktacular@reddit
You write like chatgpt.
StandardAd239@reddit
Maybe because I'm not lazy at grammar...and I'm decently educated in United States politics.
My profile isn't hidden. I'm clearly not a chatgtp person.
LilacOn_Green57934@reddit
Young culturally and old politically. Underestimate the political elite at your peril
TrungusMcTungus@reddit
America as a country is young. The American line of succession through one mode of government is old.
Kanya_Mkavry@reddit
I guess it depends on how you measure age, but I do consider America younger than Europe.
Sometime in the 80s, my father's hometown in Germany celebrated its 1000 year anniversary. That made an impression on me, in highschool at the time. Phoenix Arizona where I lived was about 120 years since it was settled by us whities.
nc45y445@reddit
There are people in Phoenix whose ancestors have lived there for hundreds, if not thousands of years
Kanya_Mkavry@reddit
Yes, the Hohokam and the O'odham tribes to name two. Which is why I specified 'whities' in my comment. I do not presume to share their heritage, although I find it fascinating.
nc45y445@reddit
Yep, it’s super interesting and you just need to head into New Mexico or Mexico to see a continuation. of the culture
Kanya_Mkavry@reddit
Maybe they don't like me calling myself and my fellow European descended Americans Whities
de_propjoe@reddit
A country is made up of its people. It’s only as old as the people who are running it. So in that sense, America is a very old country.
In all seriousness, I don’t really know why a country like, say, England should be considered “old” when it’s a different country with different people, different culture, different traditions than it had 250 years ago. Just because you can walk into a 400-year-old building from time to time doesn’t make your country old. In my opinion of course.
Derwin0@reddit
Jamestown, VA was founded in 1607, so the US could easily be considered over 400 years old if we don’t go by political formation.
RainbowCrown71@reddit
I mean, Mesa Verde is pushing 1,000 years old. Montezuma Castle in Arizona is 900 years old. Taos Pueblo. We have very old history too, it’s just weirdly seen as a separate from American history.
LeastInsurance8578@reddit
In that case then it goes back even further because if you count that what about Native Americans?
LeastInsurance8578@reddit
You think that the USA has the same traditions and culture it did 250 years ago?
The USA, in its current incarnation , has only existed since 1959 when Hawaii became a state
Low_Attention9891@reddit
That’s definitely not true. The US constitution has been in place since 1789. Since it lays out the fundamental structure and function of the US government, it’s the best measure of how old the US government is. Annexing or losing territory isn’t a change in government. If that were the case, the UK in its current form would only have existed since 1997 when Hong Kong was returned to China.
LeastInsurance8578@reddit
Hong Kong was never part of the UK, it was leased for a set period of time
Perhaps they should have tried to buy it!
Low_Attention9891@reddit
But to my understanding, it was a de facto territory. And parts of it weren’t leased and were indefinitely owned by the UK.
But one could point to other examples, like Irish independence or when Wales gained its own parliament. Certainly the UK didn’t cease to exist in its existing form when those happened.
LeastInsurance8578@reddit
Overseas territories have never been considered part of the UK
Wakes and Scotland have devolved Governments that are in essence the same as state governments in the US
The 3 nations of Great Britain are still sovereign nations though, Ireland was a colony like Canada, Australia amongst others including what was part of the original USA
Low_Attention9891@reddit
It was my understanding that Ireland had been a part of the UK since 1801.
But, my point is that adding and removing US states doesn’t indicate a change in government (at a federal level). Hawaii had been a territory since 1898, it was granted statehood in 1959.
The UK is the same government as it was before Ireland left or Wales gained its own parliament. So it follows that if the UK is the same country as it was before those events, the US is the same country as it was before the admission of Hawaii.
de_propjoe@reddit
Uh.. no? Do you think the people running the US are 250 years old? (Although I can understand how you might think that, they are really really old.)
SlippingAwayWith@reddit
You should know that how things are today aren’t the way they’ve always been.
In Louisiana, they celebrate a festival that originated in Medieval France as fête de la quémande, or feast of begging.
It’s no longer celebrated in France, but it is in the US.
Do you believe France, the UK, Germany, Italy, etc. still has all the same traditions they did 250 years ago?
Or, is my statement true that how things are today aren’t the way they’ve always been?
Junior_Ad_3301@reddit
We should definitely not be proud of how old the Constitution is. It's really too bad there is no possible way to change it withoutburning the whole thing down
RainbowCrown71@reddit
Neither. It’s an established country in that it’s been able to quickly build a unique collective identity, with heroes, myths, icons, architectural vernaculars, distinct foods, massive soft power, incredibly music and artistic legacy.
But it’s of course not an old country. Even in an old city like Washington DC, the oldest buildings are 150 or so years old.
I think an old country is one where the cities feel old and you don’t ask if the buildings are from 1100 or 1650 because they’re both equally old, even if there’s a 500-year gap. It’s when historical epochs blend together. I don’t think we’re there.
Maybe in 100 years there will be enough time that the 1800s wil start to feel ancient and kids will go walking and see extremely old churches that they think must be from time immemorial.
ChessieChesapeake@reddit
Young compared to my European roots, and both sides of my family have been here since the mid 1600s
GreenBeanTM@reddit
Old by itself, young when comparing it to world history.
FluffusMaximus@reddit
Young culturally, but older than most other governments. A lot of Europe that we know today didn’t exist when the USA was formed… but culturally they’re far older.
TehTJ13@reddit
Having the oldest constitution means nothing when it’s only so old because we’re allowed to change it. The founders wanted it replaced periodically but many people are just attached to it now.
No_Walk_Town@reddit
Specifically because Americans acknowledge their ancestry, we tend to see continuity in national identities, e.g., as a German-American, I feel a continuity from the ancient Germanic tribes through the medieval churches, and up through my family. We left before WWI and WWII, but we still absolutely feel a sense of "shit, that was us."
The thing is, Europeans scoff at this, but you do the same thing. Germans can all claim to "not see race" and "anyone can be German," but anyone saying they don't acknowledge the existence of a German ethnic identity is bullshitting themselves. They've simply redefined their ethnicity as the "national character," which, guess what - that's the exact same thing Japan did.
So, the short answer is that Americans see things almost the exact same way you do, we just understand and accept the concept of a diaspora, which Europeans tend to have trouble with. "How can you be German AND American." Dunno, man, I literally just am.
Note that this is also why you get stuff like Hollywood movies about the Trojan War casting random white dudes. Americans tend to see ancient Greece as our oldest ancestor as a nation. That's also why our national capital city is full of neoclassical architecture.
txlady100@reddit
Young!
Legitimate-Donkey477@reddit
It’s a done one.
Rattlingplates@reddit
Young as fuck. 1776 one of the newest county’s in the world.
roumonada@reddit
Stupid young. But it doesn’t really matter. We’re still older than Canada.
Firefly_Magic@reddit
It’s old to us, but newer relative to many other countries.
TrashcanDev@reddit
Depends on what you're thinking of.
Cultural? Nationally? Some other perspective of lineage? Some general concept of 'history'? Would each new French Republic be a new nation or a continuation of the previous one?
That said, generally, I think the most common consensus is that from a geopolitical perspective, the US is young while most other countries are old.
The only reason it has an old constitution and an older surviving government is because the US constitution is hard to change much less overhaul. That isn't bad per se, but it's also not good either because the founders did not expect the constitution to be static and indeed intended for it to evolve over time. They understood that they could not possible predict every eventuality. But this is not how the US has treated the US constitution, generally. And, there are even places in the constitution that are too ambiguous - it's an imperfect document and was intentionally incomplete.
How elections should be run, for instance, was a topic of big debate well past the founding.
Implied, potentially, in the question is also that old equals good. It does not. There are a very good reasons to amend or change a constitution. Changing cultural mores, for instance.
porkbuttstuff@reddit
It's young culturally, but all the old European countries only share the culture over the ages. For instance, Italy is unquestionably a younger country than the states. The unification of Italy was a crazy transformation.
Many-Rub-6151@reddit
Very young. Countless powers have risen and fallen before the US.
Icey_Raccon@reddit
Compared to what? Compared to Germany? Very young! Compared to South Sudan? Quite old.
Constant_Wear_8919@reddit
Soon to be former country
Ana_Na_Moose@reddit
I tend to think of it as kinda in the middle, aka the oldest colonial country. 250 years ago, most modern countries didn’t exist. And most of the countries that do exist now on earth are completely unrecognizable from the pre-colonial era.
Of course basic building blocks of American-specific civilization itself is quite young for a global scale, only being 400ish years old, with very clear basis in mostly European civilization.
Tldr: It depends on how you measure it. But in general, I’d put America as a middle-aged country
Jass0602@reddit
I know it doesn’t mean the same way, but in another way I think you could look at the “youthfulness” of our mindset, values, and culture. I’ve always heard people say Americans are the most independent, optimistic, and innovative (at least the foreign people I’ve met here). This to me points to a young country. Also, look at how we accept and let in so many cultures and people.. we are not set with a specific group, language, or culture like more historic countries, such as the UK, China, Japan, and Italy. Instead, to me, the U.S. is younger and more aligned in spirit with other younger countries such as Australia, Germany, and Canada, that are more open, diverse, and oriented towards growth and opportunity, vs many European and Asian cultures that focus more on customs, class/society norms, and oneness.
I’m not saying one orientation or the other is better or worse. But that’s how I would analyze this question.
Immediate-Grand8403@reddit
Young. Based on current behavior I’d say we are in our terrible twos.
a_serious-man@reddit
Old country but a young nation. Never really thought about your point about having an old government, but as a people we are young
cikanman@reddit
see I would reverse that old nation young country. Yes we have one of the oldest constitutions and a 250 year government. BUT most of the buildings in Europe and Asia that are still in use predate our country by a few hundred years.
mmodo@reddit
Asia is different but Europe uses this argument all the time but conveniently forgets the earthquakes, blizzards, tornadoes, hurricanes, and wildfires that hit the US way harder than Europe, which is nearly double the rate per year.
shelwood46@reddit
They also completely gloss over how much got bombed by the two big wars of the 20th century. Quite a lot of Europe, roads, buildings, was built post WWII, just like us. Heck, when they do tv/movie adaptations of books set in the 1930s in London, they frequently move them to the 1950s because so much was wiped out.
a_serious-man@reddit
My thought is nation = people, country = institutions. We have relatively old institutions (in younger buildings) but a young collective identity. Buildings would be maybe culture? Which is young for sure.
Gamer_Grease@reddit
Our collective identity is pretty old at least by European standards, though.
a_serious-man@reddit
Definitely, but as much as Europeans don’t want to admit it their view is history = white history. America doesn’t have history to them because white history there started in the 1600s, where obviously white history goes back much farther. So they view it as a longer historic line
venturashe@reddit
A few hundred? There are structures that predate us by tens of thousands
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Not many. Most of the structures that Europeans are referencing aren’t nearly that old. Even things from the Greco-Roman era are often ruins, not intact buildings that are still in use.
The oldest building still in regular use is from AD/CE, so definitely not tens of thousands.
venturashe@reddit
I guess that’s all in how you define buildings.
Thereelgerg@reddit
What buildings are tens of thousands of years old?
venturashe@reddit
Again define buildings.
Thereelgerg@reddit
Use your definition. I'm genuinely curious what kind of structures you're talking about.
KriegConscript@reddit
there aren't any that are tens of thousands of years old. the oldest evidence for structures in the americas is 8000 years old and located in chile
terryjuicelawson@reddit
Got to bear in mind too some countries don't have a written constitution as such as being a very old country, simply haven't needed one. They have hundreds of years of legal precedent that established all the various rights and laws already.
theHAREST@reddit
We also have buildings that are a thousand or more years old that the native Pueblans built, and their descendants still live here. That’s not any different than thousand year old buildings in England built before the Norman conquest, etc.
cikanman@reddit
We do, but if you walk around just about ANY small town in Europe you are met by churches built in the 14th Century, still holding services today. Pubs that were built well before our Fore Father's were arguing "the rights of the people" Heck the Current king of England and his family has ruled since 1701 (Yes the House of Windsor began in 1917, but I argue that's a name change for optics and does not count).
I feel like while yes we HAVE some structures that were built thousands of years ago that are still in use. That's less common here than there.
venturashe@reddit
Uncommon and don’t exist are two different things.
nc45y445@reddit
Go to Mesa Verde, it’s pretty incredible
BroughtBagLunchSmart@reddit
We also have never really had anything bad happen to us. The south is still upset they lost the civil war and are attempting to correct that action now. We just straight up lied to everyone about losing in Vietnam. We collectively lost our minds during 9/11 and killed millions of unrelated brown people.
ExcellentWinner7542@reddit
My ancestors got here in the 1900s
LeastInsurance8578@reddit
Picts were a collection of Iron Age tribes, there is a lot of Viking DNA in the whole of Britain, the Danelaw ruled half of what is now England, and the Orkney and Shetland Isles as well at various points in time
geekycurvyanddorky@reddit
Old, with a newer government. Native Americans/First Nations/indigenous peoples were here for a very long time before white male interferences.
houdini31@reddit
As a nation I think still young because other nations have been around for 100s to even 1000s of years but as far as maturity goes and staying power I believe we are on a higher level than other countries by far.
Responsible-View-804@reddit
It’s an old country
Young nation
Once you learn the difference it makes sense
AtlasThe1st@reddit
Always annoys me when people say America is young. Their country might have a 1000 year history, but it gets a new government every 20 years.
UnarmedSnail@reddit
America has been running as the same entity for a while now, but culturally is pretty young and still has many lessons to learn. It seems we are once again in the finding out phase.
OK_Stop_Already@reddit
I'd say longest current government, but the country as a whole is relatively young.
Dippity_Dont@reddit
America is fairly young, I'd say. Sure there are younger countries but there are also much older ones. So "fairly young" is my vote.
Open-Committee-998@reddit
It’s old in the sense that it’s not really a new country, it’s young in the sense that many other countries have existed for thousands of years while we’ve got a shaky 250 under our belt. Next to Serbia we’re an old country, as Yugoslavia split very recently. Next to China, we’re not even a blip on the map.
Thin-Quiet-2283@reddit
Young. Unless you’re Native American…
Il_Will@reddit
You have to start the people clock in early 1600's.
What really sets the US back in apparent age is that 1)only the east coast has any age, settlement was very rural for aong time, and 3)we built everything out of wood and modest architecture, so there are no 400 year old cathedrals in Williamsburg or Boston.
Hardly any of our 400 year old towns show it outside of a few historic districts.
PM_ME_UR__SECRETS@reddit
I've always viewed us as extremely young. We are just barely a pre-industrial era Nation. Meanwhile you have countries out there like Greece and Egypt which are quite literally ancient.
BakedBrie1993@reddit
Young, dumb, and full of...it.
jigokubi@reddit
Young.
There are regular people in the UK living in houses considerably older than this country. The last time I went to Japan, I visited a 600-year-old temple with a statue that was 900-1000 years old.
grassesbecut@reddit
As an American, I do agree that we are a young country. But I honestly didn't realize our government was so, "old." I thought for sure that there were a lot of other countries with older governments.
Ladonnacinica@reddit
What even is old or young? Are you counting civilizations, culture? Or when it became a sovereign state? Because China for instance is like 5,000 years old in terms of their culture. But as a nation state they are seventy-six years old.
Italy is certainly very old as a culture but it was only unified as a nation state in 1861. Similar to Germany thanks to Otto Von Bismarck. But it has gone through several border changes throughout the years.
And the USA was officially founded in 1776 predating many European countries. And Latin American countries too. And African countries.
So are we a young nation? I guess but so are many others. And there’s nothing wrong with it.
rileyoneill@reddit
Very few modern Italians can speak Latin and 100 years ago it was a fairly small portion of Italians that could even speak standard Italian. Its hard to have a unified national identity when most people can't communicate with each other. English has been spoken continuously in North America for over 400 years now. Spanish for over 500 years.
Ladonnacinica@reddit
Yeah, even now there are differences between northern and southern Italians. But some people act as if the Roman Empire is still present and nothing change. Italy went through huge cultural changes. Not to mention until a few decades ago, there were multiple languages in Italy (Veneto, Siciliano, Toscano, etc). The government had to push for standard Italian.
I’m not saying this to suggest that Italy isn’t a proper country or nation, it is but it wasn’t as monolithic or monolingual as others believe.
thingsbetw1xt@reddit
I see it as somewhere in the middle. It's only a young country if you don't count Native Americans as part of American, in which case you could draw ethnic lines on the age of a lot of countries, which is a really murky and weird debate to get into.
rileyoneill@reddit
As a functioning government. Fairly old. Most governments are much newer. As a national identity of "American" where we refer to ourselves as "American", that really goes back to the Civil War of the 1860s (Mass mobilization of the Union soldiers gave the average person the glimpse that this whole American thing is much bigger than they thought). As an English speaking society, it goes back 400 years. We are a continuation of English society. Even after living in colonial Americas for 150ish years, the people here considered themselves "English" until we had our revolution.
We have been industrialized longer than most, we have had electricity longer then most, we have had cars and trains longer than most. We are the oldest society to make use of flight. On the internet, we are among the oldest. Industrialization, mass communication, the internet completely rewire and reshape entire civilizations. For most of those things we have been at it the longest. There are societies on Earth where electricity isn't much of a thing where it has been commonplace here for over 100 years.
capndiln@reddit
We are a baby that has got their hands on a loaded firearm. Good luck everybody else.
Mediocre_Daikon6935@reddit
We one of the oldest nations on earth.
As a Pennsylvanian, the key to that stability. I would expect better knowledge of that from you.
capndiln@reddit
We murdered the indigenous population so we could control land, the way all other nations murdered to control land.
Our government is a steaming pile of shit right now, which is perfectly allowed by this old nation.
Our rules are 250 years old.
Our morals are 250 years old.
Our view of global sovereignty is 250 years old.
Pennsylvania is a bunch of people with guns that protect "their" land. They dont care about even their neighboring states, let alone whether the federal government is a success.
Rest on the laurels of union soldiers all you want, but we should not be boasting about our antiquated customs and laws that allow school children to be murdered weekly without any reform.
We have countless issues that have been mpstly or partially resolved in these "young" nations like France, finland, Spain, the UK, and all of that.
Saying america is great without admitting its faults is disingenuous.
We can do good things while being mostly a piece of shit.
Mediocre_Daikon6935@reddit
We, Pennsylvania, did not.
We signed a treaty with the confederacy of nations.
That treaty got violated 3 times.
Three times the confederacy of nations looked into it, found out one of their States (sub nations) in error. Three times the confederacy of nations addressed the issue.
capndiln@reddit
Your view of world history seems to start maybe in 1776? Or maybe just the 1400s? As if the time before that didn't happen and those were not our ancestors.
If your identity is held up by where ypu happened to be born that is your prerogative. Again, you can make lists of good things as long as you want. Hitler did good things. Iran did good things. North Korea did good things. If that is the only lens you view history through ypu are missing untold human suffering.
This month the PA government narrowly banned a whites-only settlement. It passed by 1 vote. 101 to 100. So for every 101 people who want equality, we have 100 that want segregation.
Ignoring issues because we also do good things is naive and very small.
You seem to think im claiming we are evil or villainous. I am claiming that we have the ability to be better than we are. Arguing the opposite is very regressive, not even conservative. We can celebrate success without using that success to excuse our failures.
Pride is fine, but not if thats your whole identity.
Mediocre_Daikon6935@reddit
Yawn. You’re spreading misinformation.
Such a thing is already illegal due to Pennsylvanias already existing anti discrimination laws.
We are talking about Pennsylvania. Anything before March 4, 1681 is irrelevant.
capndiln@reddit
YOU are talking about Pennsylvania. Personally, since there is no legal way for Pennsylvania to leave the United States and be just Pennsylvania, only looking at pennsylvania as an american is very narrow minded.
Until the Supreme Court ruled on obergefell vs Hodges, I could not legally marry or receive legal rights of marriage because I am gay.
You can fuck yourself with your Appalachia supremacy BS
MsterF@reddit
Most Redditor comment award goes to this guy.
SlippingAwayWith@reddit
This is nonsense. You can’t seriously believe morality across the US is the same as it was 250 years ago.
This is another nonsense statement. It doesn’t even mean anything.
It’s a union of individual states, each with their own constitutions, courts, taxes, rules of law, police forces, and often military and state defense forces.
AskAnAmerican-ModTeam@reddit
Your comment was removed as it violates Rule 12, “Answers and comment replies should be serious and useful.”
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Independent_End_6941@reddit
I feel like this "longest running government" stuff is just a technicality. 250 years is nothing in terms of history.
MsterF@reddit
Mammals roaming earth is nothing in terms of history but I don’t think that’s really relevant to this discussion.
Independent_End_6941@reddit
Of course, but the scope of this discussion is limited to human history. I think there's more to a country than just the current form of government. Europe has ruins older than Christianity.
MsterF@reddit
I think the form of government is more relevant to a country than how old their pile of bricks is.
Independent_End_6941@reddit
It's not about piles of bricks, it's about culture and shared history
MsterF@reddit
Again. Not sure what ruins have to do with culture. A shared governmental history is a much better indicator of shared history. A place like France has had like four different governments in the time USA has had one. Is their shared history absolute monarchy?
Independent_End_6941@reddit
Basically, the way I see it is a counry is the people, the land, and the government in that order. Individual elements can change over time, but the mix of them creates a culture.
Independent_End_6941@reddit
It's the shared history of surviving those 4 regime changes. That, among other things, has resulted in devilling a cultural identity that's uniquely French
Responsible-Maybe289@reddit
Young country, but old style of government .
Ew_fine@reddit
I always thought of it as very young, but you made great points I wasn’t aware of.
Current_Poster@reddit
Honestly, I do neither. I tend to see it as a kind of rhetorical trick some people like to do.
Pernicious_Possum@reddit
Young
Low_Attention9891@reddit
I think most people would say that it’s a young country. I know King Charles recently gave a speech to Congress and made a joke relating to how old the UK is in comparison and people found it funny.
Arguably, that’s a pretty likely statement in even a lot of older countries. It’s probable that any country with a not insignificant amount of immigration will have a large population of people with at least one ancestor that had arrived within the last 500 years. That’s something like 20 generations of people, every person alive has over a million possible ancestors over the past 500 years.
It’s also worth noting that the first permanent English colony was founded in 1607, 419 years ago. So, realistically, the vast majority of the ancestors that have been in North America before that will be Native Americans.
Cock--Robin@reddit
Young. A mature country would have free healthcare, a robust social safety net, mandatory time off for childbirth, basic universal income, and zero child rapists in government.
johnincolorado@reddit
I consider the US to be a teenager of a country, boldly making all of the stupid mistakes teenagers make, driven by too much confidence and too little maturity.
MrEntrepot@reddit
I think 250 is young. There are people alive who met enslaved persons (the grandparents of black centennarians).
Nouseriously@reddit
young nation, old government
ZeroQuick@reddit
President Tyler was born in 1790, 14 years after the U.S. was founded; his grandson died last year at the age of 96. 😮
IthurielSpear@reddit
How do you all view brazil, is my question.
Learningstuff247@reddit
Young but consistent
No-You5550@reddit
Native Americans were here before Europeans ever dreamed there might be land on the other side of the water. So yes, it is ancient. It just didn't belong to us. We are very new here.
Prestigious-Craft251@reddit
But there is essentially not remnants of the native's culture or government in the US today so that doesn't really apply.
That's like saying I'm 113 cause my house was built in 1913.
Potential-Leg-9300@reddit
Do you view a meter as long or short? When you are the standard by which all others are measured, those sorts of questions don't make as much sense.
iteachag5@reddit
Young compared to other countries.
spaltavian@reddit
I've always found America being "young" based on its independence or colonization dates silly; we didn't evolve from apes in 1607. America is as much the heir and continuation of European traditions as Germany and Italy (which are technically younger than America.)
What is "young" about America is that while the continent was absolutely not empty, it did not have a major territorial states in areas not suitable to indigenous agriculture when European settlers headed west. So this perceived frontier gives the sense of "new" in the American mythos.
g1rthqu4k3@reddit
There’s no simple answer, but I’m happy to make the assertion that it’s older than Germany
clearedmycookies@reddit
Age is relative. There are plenty of countries that exist now that didn't when I was born. They are the true young countries.
But that doesn't mean America is an Old Country either.
UnicornHandstands@reddit
I view it as a teenage country. We are trying to figure out which direction to go to make it as a grown up country, hence all the angst. Either we’ll pull it off and become a functioning adult country that contributes to the world or we’ll become the equivalent of a high school drop out country that is in and out of country jail. And I don’t have super high hopes.
Gamer_Grease@reddit
I view it as old. Our identity as a unified people, and our existing political system, are significantly older than most European states’. We just don’t have a lot of old physical structures like they do.
DeniLox@reddit
Italy as a unified nation is younger than the U.S., but it is considered old as a physical location. The U.S. is young, but it’s still older than some other places in regard to it’s establishment.
Sanjomo@reddit
This is a dumb debate.
The age of the country as ‘America’ isn’t really up for debate. Nor is The age of Italy or France as ‘functioning unified founded republics’. Italy was unified in 1861 and became a functioning republic in 1946. The Republic of France was formed in 1792.
Now any country can ‘claim’ the people that came before them as ‘their own countries history’ but that’s not accurate by definition of ‘country’ and governance. So if Italy can claim the Roman Empire as the Republic of Italy’s history than the US can claim the lands native people as the ‘United States history’ which is equally inaccurate. The Pueblo structures in Mesa Verda were built in 1180 the ‘Earth Work Mounds’ at LSU are thought to be 11,000 years old (older than the pyramids). Sooooo it’s all relative to loose comparisons
Sanjomo@reddit
These comparisons are STUPID at best.
The age of Italy or France as functioning republics make them both ‘younger’ than the US. Italy was unified in 1861 and became a functioning republic in 1946. The Republic of France was formed in 1792. Now any country can ‘claim’ the people that came before them as ‘their own countries history’ but that’s not accurate by definition of ‘country’ and governance. So if Italy can claim the Roman Empire as the Republic of Italy’s history than the US can claim the lands native people as the ‘United States history’ which is equally inaccurate. The Pueblo structures in Mesa Verda were built in 1180 the ‘Earth Work Mounds’ at LSU are thought to be 11,000 years old (older than the pyramids). Sooooo it’s all relative to loose comparisons
Aggravating-Onion384@reddit
Young but in regards to overall time but in terms of linear growth, old…
Alot of countries have had a complete change in between our revolution and WW2.
JustAnotherDay1977@reddit
Young country, old government.
Prize_Consequence568@reddit
"Do you view America as a young country or an old one?"
Yes.
Sabertooth767@reddit
Old country, young nation.
Bocaj1126@reddit
Wouldnt it be the opposite?
ScipioAfricanisDirus@reddit
Country here refers to the institutions of the government, and as stated in the OP the US has one of the oldest constitutions and continually operating governments in the world. Nation refers to a group of people with a collective culture or common identity. Many countries in the world today are nation-states in which the political boundaries are drawn so that governments generally represent unified nations so we tend to think of nations in that way, but that wasn't always the case.
Looking at German people, for instance, prior to German unification in the late 1800s there were about 25 individual German states (to say nothing of the hundreds of smaller states they were successors to) that operated more or less independently. There was some concept of a broad German nation with a common cultural identity for centuries prior to that, but it didn't necessarily align to a single country until more recently. In that sense our common national identity is much younger than many others.
Bocaj1126@reddit
I feel like country refers to the land and the people. Y'know the vast countryside and whatnot while the concept of a nation-state is directly based on the idea of a governmental instintution. I could be completely wrong tho but that's just my intuition.
makerofshoes@reddit
American culture doesn’t start in 1776, either. The mainstream American culture has always been Anglo and therefore English history is also American history (prior to the 16th century, at least)
Ginger630@reddit
This!!!
LtPowers@reddit
There we go.
MrBingly@reddit
As a culture, it's young. As a political institution it's old.
1NqL6HWVUjA@reddit
If I had to pick one with no qualifiers, all of the (widely-recognized) countries within the Americas are of course "young", relative to places that can trace a reasonably unbroken cultural/ethnic lineage in a single region back thousands of years. That maximum 'cultural age' of four or five hundred years is simply inherent in how colonization occurred here. It is what it is.
That said, by most metrics I'd put the USA somewhere in the middle at this point. It's obviously far from the oldest, but it also predates many sovereign states formed (or that gained independence) in the 19th and 20th centuries.
skspoppa733@reddit
Still a young country for sure.
Reasonable_Wasabi124@reddit
Depends on your viewpoint. If it's from a Native American viewpoint, it's very old. From a European viewpoint, we're just a baby.
tbone603727@reddit
A young country but also past its prime
WinstonWilmerBee@reddit
Old country, new nation.
A country is the government. A nation about having a shared identity, as seeing ourselves belonging to some group rooted in this place.
rawbface@reddit
We don't really think about the age of countries being an important thing at all. Comparing yourself to other countries is definitely more of a European thing.
rimshot101@reddit
The United States is a young country. There have been lots of other things on this continent, including ancient civilizations.
IrianJaya@reddit
It's one of the oldest new countries.
BatofZion@reddit
Young, buff, and stupid. Lots of countries were young and stupid when they were 250, but we are a threat to ourselves and others.
FormerlyDK@reddit
Only the land is old.
EmploymentEmpty5871@reddit
Very young. Only 250 years old. I just saw a fort that the Roman's built in 179, yes only 3 digit year.
FormalWaters@reddit
A temporary one
diffidentblockhead@reddit
For modern culture like automobiles, often America had it first and longer than anyone else. So for those layers, America is oldest.
Norwester77@reddit
Young, both in terms of the presence of most of its population on its territory and in terms of its existence as a political entity.
Erisedstorm@reddit
We are young
Scott72901@reddit
I view it as a middle-aged country going through a major mid-life crisis.
nc45y445@reddit
This resonates with me
Danibear285@reddit
Europeans love to remind us we’re the youngest, but we hold economic power over them.
Suitable_Departure98@reddit
Neither government nor culture are old, considering many other cultures lasted 2000 yrs plus before falling or diminishing. None in modern times except maybe Persia. Religion makes nationhood messy .. wars and such. Ask Iran and Israel.
nc45y445@reddit
India has been around with a pretty continuous culture and religion for 5000 years. In terms of culture, the same could be true of China
HonestLemon25@reddit
If you define a country by its government, it’s one of the oldest. Culturally? It’s very young.
Keelera2@reddit
Do you see South Africa, Mexico, Brazil or Australia as young countries? Like the US, their governments are relatively new, and the culture of today is not the same as the culture of 400 years ago. The make up of the people living there is different too. But! The original people/cultures/nations/tribes who lived in these lands are still there (even if European settlers tried their darnedest to try to kill them off).
Federal_Tradition165@reddit
It's a young civilization compared to, for example, Iran. But it's a complement, as only in a couple of years USA became the richest, the most powerful and the most free country on earth, while Iran didn't do it for centuries.
1MrE@reddit
Compared to others? Very young.
K_N0RRIS@reddit
Its young as hell compared to others. There are quite a few countries who can trace their history back more than a millenium.
normiepitbullmom@reddit
Most of us had ancestors that arrived between like 1860-1900. I have photographs of almost all of my original ancestors that came to the US. There are many countries that are technically younger than us, of course, but for example you won’t see a castle from the 1200s like you will in Germany (like Heidelberg Castle, which I would totally suggest visiting), so in that way, our nation is young.
As far as what was happening here before European contact, I would suggest reading about the Mississippian Culture. There was a lot going on here with Natives. They had some large cities and extensive trade networks. Some US highways are even based off of roads that were made during those times (read this in a book about michigan roads once).
RandomSlimeL@reddit
Old. It's democracy is on its last legs even if its "culturally" young.
nasa258e@reddit
It's a new country with an old government
pensivepricklypear@reddit
VERY young country, comparatively. 250 years young this year, officially.
Fairly old govt. second oldest constitution, as you said.
Would probably describe it as young unless I’m specifically describing the govt.
Sarcastic_Rocket@reddit
Old country, young history
It is one of the longest lasting countries in its current form. Countries like china, England, Germany, etc. Were different in some form or another when America was established. However our old history didn't last as long, was destroyed, or is swept under the rug most of the time.
In Germany you can walk past a pub older than the US, but when the US was founded that land was still the Holy Roman empire.
Jorost@reddit
"America" is not a country at all. The United States of America, which I assume is what the OP is referring to, is a relatively young country at 250 years old, founded in 1776. But England was founded in 927. France in 843. Egypt was founded around 3100 BCE. So there are plenty of much, MUCH older countries.
Most of the modern nation-states in the Americas are relatively young, the result of the colonial era. Many African nation-states are also relatively young, but the actual nations themselves (i.e. the groups of people who share common cultures, languages, history, ethnicities) are much older.
Derwin0@reddit
Oldest country in the western hemisphere, but new compared to many in the eastern hemisphere.
_haha_oh_wow_@reddit
As a country, I would say it's relatively new but I can understand why people think of it as old. In a sense, it definitely is, but compared to other countries, it's still younger than most.
Persimmon_and_mango@reddit
Young, for sure. Even though we've had one continuous government longer then a lot of other nations, as a unified people our culture and history separate from England hasn't existed that long. For comparison, there has been a recognizably "Chinese" style of art for 10,000 years.
ZebulonRon@reddit
Young, but nowhere near the youngest.
linkthereddit@reddit
Depends on how we’re asking this. America today wasn’t the America of 1941, nor was it the America of 1865, or 1793. But they all could say, ‘United States’.
But the entity itself? I think we’re still relatively young. France as an entity had been around for a thousand years, with Louis the Pious being one of the earliest French kings in 812 AD. England had been a thing since 1066 with William the Conqueror.
NonspecificGravity@reddit
The kings of France originally ruled only a small area around Paris. For a while, during the Hundred Years War (15th century) there wasn't even a king, and the Dauphin ruled only a portion of southern France.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_VII_of_France#/media/File:Treaty_of_Troyes.svg
At the beginning of the 19th century, most residents of France didn't speak the same language.
Larnievc@reddit
Young. The pub down the road from us is older than America.
Nicetonotmeetyou@reddit
I’ve been to Rome. Definitely young. 😜
Redbubble89@reddit
French Revolution was after America's
Unification of Germany was 1870? So around our civil war.
If we want to go off of civilizations, Mesopotamia and India are much older than European ones. In that case, America is young.
America didn't have the Romans or crusades or the middle ages but saying that we're young as a country is incorrect. Australia and a lot of the iron curtain countries are newer.
Interesting-Run-6866@reddit
Over 40% of Americans have ancestors that arrived through Eliis island, in the last 100-150 years. I would bet well over half have ancestors that arrived after the creation of the US, though it seems that number is harder to find.
UnicornSquash9@reddit
Well, some countries have “new” things that were built in the 1800s, which is just a few years after we got started. The US is definitely not old.
TemperMe@reddit
Young, incredibly young. Even if you just count natives before colonization, the Americas were the last continents to be populated.
Deep_Contribution552@reddit
I tend to see us in the middle. There’s still the elder generation of countries in Western Europe or countries like Japan or Thailand or Iran… then there are young countries emerging from decolonization or 19th century nationalism. And a whole lot of countries that are IMO harder to interpret than the US. Does Germany date to 1871 or East Francia? Is India a creation of the 1940s, the Raj, or does it come from the Maurya period or even earlier?
-Boston-Terrier-@reddit
It's honestly just not something I really have much of an opinion on.
I find the importance some people put on old or young countries a little weird. It's totally a cop out but if you're asking our age in terms of having a lot of people here then we're young and if you're asking it in terms of a continuous government then we're old. I guess, I don't know.
CODMAN627@reddit
When compared to other countries and even ideals we are younger.
You could argue with have one of the oldest governments in the world although I would argue that streak of stability we’ve taken for granted is facing its toughest challenge
North America isn’t called the “new world” for nothing mostly due to the ideas of self governance and an almost primal distaste for monarchy (thus the genesis of the name “No kings” in the the no kings protests) as well as a fundamentally different view on ethnicity and nationality that is incompatible with the European continent.
Anyone who becomes a US citizen or a resident who’s lived here a significant amount of time is looked at as an American, we don’t have a single language or religion
nickzillo@reddit
The United States of America is objectively the oldest country in the world.
mellowfish10@reddit
Middle Aged & currently having its midlife crisis
GSilky@reddit
Still working on finishing up the start. Turns out every couple of decades we find more groups of people who were created equal and include them in a process that would indicate we are still figuring out what an American is.
No-Marsupial-7385@reddit
Young nation. Full of arrogant politicians.
Current_Mongoose_844@reddit
Young, but that's okay.
Deep-Hovercraft6716@reddit
Neither. I don't really think about the country in that way at all.
Reaganson@reddit
Young, it’s pretty obvious.
myfourmoons@reddit
America didn’t exist as we know it today before white settlers came.
ContributionLatter32@reddit
I view it as a young country. Yes by technicality it's governing documents are among the oldest, but in terms of history referring to governing bodies that we recognize as a distinct identity, it is very young.
Pinwurm@reddit
Depends on how you define 'country'.
Russian Federation has only been round since 1991, but Russian nationality, culture and identity has been around for like 500-600 years. So it Russia an old place? Or a new place? Are Russians born before 1991 immigrants from the Soviet Union to the Russian Federation?
The United States as a sovereign state is older than the United Kingdom. But American identity and nationality is very, very new. So we simultaneously have the longest-standing democracy in the world and yet, we're still trying to figure out what 'being an American' even means as a Nationality. What it means in 1789 is certainly different than what it means in 2026.
National identity is something Germans already know, despite only being a country since 1990. Something Chinese already know, despite being a country since 1949. Something Spanish people already know, despite being a country since 1978. You can divorce the Nation from it's government. And if we had no American Government, are we even American?
You get the idea.
tn00bz@reddit
I'm glad youre asking instead of just saying, "we have pubs older than your country where I live," because thats super annoying. I don't think the average american really thinks about it, but it sort of explains how we think about ourselves. America is a country with an old government but a young history. Obviously native history as a thing, but thats sort of pre-america. Unlike say ireland, where you have a stone age structure that is still identified as irish. Because of this, we see our personal histories as an extention of where our ancestors came from.
BrokenManOfSamarkand@reddit
Americans, as a people, have been in formation for like 400 years now. It really isn't that young, even if there are still many peoples much, much older than us.
zacandahalf@reddit
Makes me think about how the USA is almost 50 years older than Greece
AFormer_Child@reddit
I don't even really view it as a country anymore. It's 50 small governments fighting amongst themselves. If each state were its own country they would be constantly at war, and I think that's kind of what we're seeing right now.
Big-Dig-Pig@reddit
Young country, archaic government
miseod@reddit
I’m 52 and I’ve been around for 20% of this country’s existence. It hasn’t been a good run since 1973 personally
blessings-of-rathma@reddit
Young. It was founded by conquerors and colonizers who wanted a better life for themselves and used religion to justify taking land away from someone else. It's a relatively new form of government especially when you consider that many citizens (women, people of colour) were not allowed to vote for most of this young history. It's still not polished and may never be polished at this rate. In a thousand years it will be seen as less impressive than the Roman empire, which lasted a hell of a lot longer.
venturashe@reddit
A young one.
Thhe_Shakes@reddit
Our government is old, but for the age of the county I think people more consider the sort of cultural continuity that we've "only" had for \~350 years. I think most recognize a lot of the native culture (especially in the Southwest) as being old, but for occasionally racist and occasionally valid reasons these often aren't seen as part of the greater "American" culture, but rather as the remains of the culture it supplanted.
HarlequinKOTF@reddit
We're one of the oldest continuous representative democracies on earth right now. But in the grand scheme of things we aren't that old of a country.
ThimbleBluff@reddit
Given the age and attitude of our current leadership, it feels simultaneously stodgier and more juvenile.
Fun-Lengthiness-7493@reddit
A stupid one.
10leej@reddit
As an American I recognize it as a young nation in comparison to anything east.
However in context of America I consider it plenty old enough because I still have and sometimes use tools my ancester made back in the 1600s alongside various other things my family has made over the years. So I can't really consider the US young either. Especially when taking history I to account most recorded nations don't actually survive hundreds or thousands of years.
Chimney-Imp@reddit
We have the oldest codified constitution of any country on earth. While other countries might be 'older' the country they used to be 200 years ago is vastly different culturally, legally, and politically than what they are today. They've completely reformed their laws and government several times. In some cases like Germany they've been divided and reunified more times than 99% of all other countries.
All of this to say that the age of a country is kind of a bs number and you can make any country as old as you want it to be depending on what agenda you're trying to push
Bocaj1126@reddit
It's a young country but an old nation
Queasy-Primary-3438@reddit
Never thought about it until I visited London. I then realized just how new this nation is
Roadshell@reddit
If you consider a country "existing" to be set by when their current constitution is ratified then it's actually one of the oldest countries around. Of course by this standard France is only 67 years old.
msackeygh@reddit
The United States as a country is young not because of human ancestry, but because of when the nation was formed, which is just about 250 years ago. Having a constitution is not a benchmark for being a country; it is but a feature of a type of government. Furthermore, while it has one of the oldest WRITTEN forms of government, there’s nothing to say that being written is superior to customs and traditions. The US government is not one of the oldest. I think, rather, you mean that its written form of government (i.e., the constitution) is one of the oldest written ones which is true.
But all those qualifiers — written form — is just teasing out a way to create an artifice of superiority.
SnooChipmunks2079@reddit
I don’t think we’re either. Our government seems to be having a midlife crisis or may even be on its deathbed but the feeling of the populace is youthful.
Personally I can trace my lineage in the country to both 1640’s and 1890’s and a variety of other times between.
JulieofTheJulies@reddit
America is only 250 years old. We’re a young country.
AncientGuy1950@reddit
The nation itself is only 250 years old come this July, and I've been alive for 75 of them. That means that the US has citizens who have been alive for 30% (or more for my still breathing seniors) of its existence.
That is a young country. Or, at least, one going through its teenaged era, which, honestly would explain a whole lot about what is currently going on.
I've travelled and have seen buildings still in use that are older that our entire nation, in Europe and Japan, the only reason there aren't more of them is due to the energetic Urban renewal project the US participated in through the 1940s.
largos7289@reddit
Young compared to Europe.
Frenchitwist@reddit
New culture, old country
sewedthroughmyfinger@reddit
I think this is largely being defined by when the US became colonized as well. There were functioning democracies here that our own democracy is partly modeled on for thousands of years before and Europeans ever knew it existed.
helpmeamstucki@reddit
Young because all the other countries already have cultures and peoples established over millennia
Fruitopia07@reddit
The established country with borders? Kinda young.
The history and culture? Goes back thousands of years.
makawakatakanaka@reddit
Young in the cultural sense, old in the nation state sense
MajesticBread9147@reddit
I view us as somewhere in the middle.
A lot of countries were created and dissolved just within the 250 or so years we've been a country. This list includes Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, and The Soviet Union.
Countries that are significantly younger than America include South and North Korea, The People's Republic of China, Taiwan, basically every country in the Caribbean, Vietnam, basically every country in Africa, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, etc.
Horangi1987@reddit
Feels young to me for the most part, but I was born in Korea and travel UK and EU a lot so I’m accustomed to seeing really old architecture and whatnot. In USA ‘old’ architecture in much of the country is only late Victorian or Edwardian houses unless you’re in places like Philadelphia.
Shot_Cartographer241@reddit
Saying America is a young country is a huge pet peeve of mine. There’s more that makes a country than it having a name. China, Japan, Ireland, Germany, Greece, Italy, etc all younger than the U.S.
PrimusDCE@reddit
As a country/ governance we are somwhat older, comparatively to a lot of other countries. Culturally we are very young.
skaliton@reddit
It is kind of a hard question to answer. In the sense that 'the United States of America' it is a young country compared to say Italy.
ayebrade69@reddit
The concept of Italy being a unified country is only like 150 years old
LtPowers@reddit
The Italian Republic was founded in 1946! The Kingdom of Italy only goes back to 1861. The U.S. was already 85 years old then!
BuffaloRedshark@reddit
middle
Educational_Horse469@reddit
Young
retroman73@reddit
Young country. Compare us to the UK or France, both have been around over 1,000 years. Not the same government of course, and the boundaries changed, but Paris was a city with people living in it 2,000 years ago.
Old government. Most governments don't last this long.
ayebrade69@reddit
America is 61 years older than the Netherlands. Our government in its current form was created in 1787. Yours in 1848.
LeastInsurance8578@reddit
America, or the USA as it should be called is 250 years old, it’s a young country compared to the majority of the rest if the world
SlippingAwayWith@reddit
All of North America and South America are young countries. New Zealand and Australia are young countries. Many nations across Africa were recently formed following the dissolution of colonial powers after WWII.
Prior to 1871, what is now Germany was a land of individual and independent kingdoms, duchies, principalities, and free cities. Have you ever heard of Prussia?
Are you sure it’s a majority of the rest of the world?
AndreaTwerk@reddit
The government is that old, which makes it one of the oldest ones in the world.
If we're going by culture/ancestry then more like 400 years, which is young. Of course Native Nations are much older.
Durham1988@reddit
Dead country
mustang6172@reddit
Old.
bigedthebad@reddit
Not too long after I got to Germany, I was drinking a beer from a local Nuremberg brewery. The label said established in 1489.
I remembered a rhyme from grade school, “Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492”.
That brewery was making beer before Columbus found his way to America.
Yeah, this country is a baby.
Ginger630@reddit
Compared to so many other countries, I view it as a young country.
ScatterTheReeds@reddit
Young with old Indian Nations
BocaGrande1@reddit
Very young culturally but relatively kind of old politically
Wooden_Airport6331@reddit
We’re a young country.
Drivo566@reddit
Young.
We're like a hormonal high-school jock who thinks everything revolves around them. We dont have the experience yet that other countries have.
Fuckspez42@reddit
The saying goes that the difference between Americans and Brits is that Brits think 100 miles is a long way, and Americans think 100 years is a long time.
MissMurderpants@reddit
It’s old in terms of hss as bing a successful revolution….
And still existing.
Curmudgy@reddit
I’d rarely equate the age of a government or constitution with the age of a country. To me, the England of the Norman Conquest era is the same country as the England of today. Sure, the government has changed radically, but there’s more to a country than its government.
(I’ve deliberately used “England” to step around the uniquely British issue of “country” having multiple meanings.)
Tacoshortage@reddit
I think of us as ridiculously young.
hc600@reddit
We’re a young nation but an old democracy. The cracks are starting to show (again) in the constitution.
alwaysboopthesnoot@reddit
Young country; we’re only 250 years old.
We’re located in The New World, not The Old.
xPanZi@reddit
Good question.
I think of it as an old country. I’m sure there are others, but my instinct is to feel that only the UK is older than the US as a country.
As a civilization it also feels old to me due to our legal and cultural connection to the anglosphere. There’s a clear moment when our country starts, but the start of America as a civilization is intrinsically tied to the history of England and that goes back long enough that it feels like one long and connected story.
It also helps that early Americans were obsessed with Rome, so there’s a cultural story being told of a continued national ideal from the Roman Republic to the US, even though there are so many historical issues with that narrative.
RespectableBloke69@reddit
Young country but actually the oldest continuous democracy
Fun_Inspector_8633@reddit
A young, but soon to be extinct country if things don’t change.
starlordbg@reddit
Young country but still managing to achieve alot unlike my country which is 1300 years old or so but hasnt achieved much unfortunately.
GhostOfJamesStrang@reddit
We are a young country, but so are a lot of 'old' countries if you want to get pedantic.
Js987@reddit
I view it as a young country with an old government.
Ok-Energy-9785@reddit
Old
BillWeld@reddit
We’re an aging decrepit dementia patient. But Europe is euthanizing itself and we still have car keys.
Bobashawty00@reddit
Young country on stolen old land
JadedDreams23@reddit
I’ve (62f, USA) always considered it young. Now I consider it dying.