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DDDX_cro@reddit

even old New York was once New Amsterdam.
Why'd they change it?

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Agt-Dale_Cooper@reddit

Personally, I like it better that way

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Aspect2Live@reddit

Wait till they learn Edirne and Odrin/Одрин (TR/BG) Plovdiv/Пловдив and Filibe (BG/TR) Thessaloniki and Selanik (GR/TR) Istanbul and Constantinapole (TR/GR)

There are probably tons more, but these are all out of my mind without looking them up. It's just how languages work, I don't understand why people get triggered over it. A place with a lot of history and life.

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Spare-Read-7597@reddit

Istanbul and Constantinople aren't just translations. They are different words. Nothing to do with language. So, greeks hads to call it Istanbul either, even wenn they speak greek. That's what normal is.

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Aspect2Live@reddit

In the Greek language, "Constantinople/Κωνσταντινούπολη" is literally what is used to call Istanbul. You can check it for yourself. I don't know where you are from, but the same happens in the Turkish language, as I said too. Filibe (Plovdiv/BG), Yukarı Cuma (Blagoevgrad/BG), Hacıoğlu Pazarcık (Dobrich/BG), Selanik (Thessaloniki/GR), Gümülcine (Komotini/GR), İskeçe (Xanthi/GR), Köprülü (Veles/MK), Manastır (Bitola/MK), Alacahisar (Kruševac/SR), Yergöğü (Giurgiu/RO), and if I wanted, I could find more. This applies to all languages, just search for it yourself online in the era of internet. And it is especially more easily seeable in Balkans cause of its multiculturalism. Every nation and language had its moments everywhere which meant by the time we got modern borders everyone called some places different names.

If you want to check anything, you can change your phone's language to another one and go around.

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Cuz it is a serious thing. I wouldn't call any of your city in a way you wouldn't want me to. Cuz it is your city and I gotta be respectful to your country in that.

It is like deadnaming someone when you call istanbul as Constantinople. I wouldn't yell or scream if someone calls it as istanbul of course, but I would talk about it being istanbul and why calling it Constantinople is wrong.

Then majority of greeks should educate them in this topic. And i am not saying this in an agressive way too. I would gladly educate myself as well if I was calling their city with an old name that no longer in use. It is just respect.

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Electrical_Turn7@reddit

I think there is a misunderstanding here. We call this city Constantinople when talking to each other in Greek. Most Greeks would refer to it as Istanbul when talking to non-Greek speakers, since that is the official and internationally recognised name. In the video shown, everyone gives the names for different cities in their own language. Big whoop. Some people in this comment section seem obsessed with controlling other languages, sadly nobody gets to do that. If we could, I would request that Yunanistan be changed to Hellas, as the Turkish name sounds unattractive in Greek. Honestly, I wish we could be friends as well as being neighbours. We have a long history together and so much in common.

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iluvatar_gr@reddit

No it isn't. You already call half of my eastern Islands with your names and you have every right to do so. These were your islands in older times and the names just stuck...

Yes.

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

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Successful-Biggy@reddit

If u don't like the answer why do u ask the question?

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KathenWalle6@reddit

They just need to play the victim you know.

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Pretend-Technician64@reddit

Every god damn time... this sub has turned into a "Wailing Wall" for greeks in these days.

I mean how can you build your entire world view and national identity on hating another nation?

Zip it dude.

Greeks call Istanbul Κωνσταντινούπολη because our ancestors called it that. We don't give a flying f about Turks calling it however they like. It is their city after all.

Take a hike. Dont try to stir shit out of thin air.

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Spare-Read-7597@reddit

Firstly, we see how you definitiv not a flying f about, what we call to OUR city here in social media.

And second, you said it. It's our city. We do decide, what is it called. It's İSTANBUL! You can't call it by it's old name and claim you respect us. That's not normal!

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iluvatar_gr@reddit

It's just a habit. No one teaches us its current name so we stick with the old one

Again: No one actually gives a f m8..

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Spare-Read-7597@reddit

How is someone supposed to teach you the new name 😀😀? Couldn't you really find any better justification?

And second, as if we don't see greeks(!)

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Sekalino@reddit

I needed to read your comment twice and had to make sure who you were replying to. I totally misunderstood your point at first and I think I’m not the only one.

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iluvatar_gr@reddit

Really? How did that came across?

My point is that we Greeks generally don't give af. We just call the city as we are used to call it, not out of disrespect or anything else. It's been 600 years after all. Normal people dont hold grudges for 600 years lol

It is not the same with Macedonia for example, which most Greeks refuse to call it that because we refuse the name..

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Sekalino@reddit

I first thought you were stirring up shit with us by mentioning your ancestors (typical first move in any good old fashioned Balkan argument) and then you went on to say that you don’t care about Turks and I was pretty much convinced you were trying to start shit. But then you wrote “it’s their city“ and I was like “nah hold on this doesn’t sound like a Greek hypernationalist“ so I read it again and it all made sense.
Also it was a little too ironic that you reprimanded op for stirring up shit but seemed to stir shit up yourself. So I thought this guy can’t be that stupid, I think I’m missing sth. That’s also why I had to double check who you were replying to. At first I thought you were replying to another Turks’ comment (I’m on phone things aren’t as easily recognizable on a small screen). Anyways I saw your comment get downvoted and thought since I first misunderstood others might have as well which is why I wrote my comment so that others would double check yours after having read mine.

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iluvatar_gr@reddit

Ah ic hahaha.

Well I hope it was clear in the end:D

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Sekalino@reddit

Yeah bro I think you’re good.
Cool name btw!

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

This video is a group of friends making a shit post. No one is offended.

I suppose as soon as the language changes solidified in that region?

However, on the other hand, the historical reason as to why a city is called something in one language is irrelevant: The people using it are not doing it out of political reasons. In fact, because the word "Constantinople" is the default, any other way to use it would be political.

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Spare-Read-7597@reddit

Sorry but that's not how languages works. Istanbul and Constantinople are two different words. Both exist in English and other languages. If they are just translations, how do they both exist in English?

And how I said, greeks have of course have the freedom to call it whatever they want. But does'nt change the fact doing so makes them butthurts.

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Visual_Location_1745@reddit

But you are the one going around acting butthurt here.

Istanbul was not a name change. Nor came out of nowhere. It has been referred by turks in turkey that way for way before it became official. So people that referred to it as κωνσταντινούπολη had no reason to change it. You are the one acting butthurt

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Spare-Read-7597@reddit

How does that oppose what I said? Istanbul and Constantinople we're both used. That's mean they we're different words and not translations in different languages. And Turkey than OFFİCİALY changed it.

Tell me please, why didn't Greece except this name change?

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Visual_Location_1745@reddit

for the same reasons turkey still uses turkish names for the greek cities. it is that cities name in their own language. same with istanbul. that was the name used by the turks for centuries. it just became official.

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Spare-Read-7597@reddit

It's not the same reason. Istanbul was'nt official name in Turkish. Turkey is use in his language, his own words. That's what normal is and how languages die works. But Constantinople is İstanbul's old name!

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Electrical_Turn7@reddit

Please explain it a bit more, even though you don’t fully understand the linguistic differences or similarities between the two. ‘Poli’ in Greek literally means ‘the City’, but is used as a short form of Konstantinoupoli, aka Constantinople. ‘Stambul’ is widely acknowledged to be a corruption of the Greek *phrase* ‘to the Poli’ i.e. ‘to the City’. The second phrasing (to the …) implies movement or travel, so it would not be used to refer to the City itself by Greeks except when influenced by or talking to non-Greeks.

Tbh, having an outsider greeksplain our language is indicative of how Stambul itself came about as a name in the first place; by people who did not speak Greek (I can only guess foreign merchants or generally travellers to the City) and misheard the original name. In short, you are wrong, the two names are not ‘two different names’ exactly, more like different ways of referring to the same place, and both happen to have the same Greek origin (hardly surprising, considering the history).

Spare-Read-7597@reddit

That's are just translations in different languages. It's normal. That's how the languages works.

Homever, Istanbul and Constantinople are two different words. Greeks didn't change the cities name in their language, because they are butthurts!

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hunichii@reddit

No they're not. Hayastan is an entirely different word to Greece, Hellas or Yunan (or Saberdzneti for Georgians).

There are tons of people still claiming that Istanbul/Constantinople should be rightfully Greek.

But even if that was not true, isn’t the Macedonia naming dispute also officially ended? The North Macedonians are allowed to call themselves Macedonians according to the Prespa Agreement?

This would be a closer analogy, because there might still be tensions under the use of a name, even if officially solved. The anology you have of French Alemania doesn’t show at all the tension the use of a specific name can have.

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hunichii@reddit

Literally no one cares about regaining Constantinople in Greece. A few fringe comments on the Internet (some of them not even being by Greeks) does not make an entire population. Not even our most extreme parties want to take Constantinople back. That gotta tell you something.

I'm gonna be honest, my point is about people being offended by exonyms. Not about their political meanings or whatever. Turks of all people should know Greece doesn't pose half a threat to them.

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Additional-Peace-809@reddit

You can make a point about not being offended by exonyms.

Here: I don’t mind that Greeks call southern Albania ‘Northern Epirus’, and neither do I think Greeks should be mad about Albanians calling southern Epirus ‘Chameria’.

This is a way better argument, because it does have actual history behind the names. There is no history of France trying to take over Germany and using Alemania as the name to justify it and/or delegitimise the name Deutschland the history of the Germans there.

And you simply can’t make a point about not being offended about exonyms without touching politics, because that would be the only reason people would be offended…

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Ecstatic_Swan6629@reddit

Or the person is Greek & that’s just the name they’ve been using in their language for hundreds of years.

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Ciubowski@reddit

idk man, language is an evolving thing. Having a word for "hundreds of years" is not really a reason to not change words in your language.

For example: how do you know how things are called? You learn. And where do you learn from? Either from the inventor, the owner, the locals (if a place) or an agreed upon name that's common and popular among people.

Now... if someone comes and brings you a slightly different item as an existing item and wants to promote that specific feature or "difference", they will push for a new name. Whether that name is taken by the speakers or not, it's not really up to anyone in particular. It's ease of use most of the times dictates if the name is "catchy" or not.

But if 99% of the world calls a place Istanbul in the current modern world... why the heck would you still call that city which isn't a part of your culture anymore "Constantinopole"?

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Am_I_Loss@reddit

Because it is part of the culture still. There are religious, culinary and sports ties with that city.

Every country has something they do that is "outdated". And that's ok.

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Spare-Read-7597@reddit

No, it's definitiv not part of their culture anymore. It's not up to them to decide it. They have to respect Turkey's soverieignity. It's just a foreign city for them just like Tokyo or New York is.

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Am_I_Loss@reddit

When is the last time anyone called the Greeks Hellenes?

The Turkish people don't even use "greek", they use the old term of the occupation times.

99% of the world calls my city Thessaloniki. Why the heck would you still call my city, that was never part of your culture, by a variation of the Ottoman Turkish name "Sellanic"?

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Spare-Read-7597@reddit

Because that's how the languages works. Simple as that.

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Why do you call that to me? Do you think I'm Georgian? Homever, do Georgians call it that way, because it's the name wenn Georgia ruled it and didn't change it because they couldn't except, that they lost this lands?

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Returntomonke21@reddit

Its because they are butthurt

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bRiCk404@reddit

Brother, the guy thinks Thessaloniki-Selanik is the same with Constantinople-Istanbul. He didn't spend 5 minutes to look up the etymological history. There is no reasonable outcome of this discussion. Indoctrinated zealots from both sides think they're the descendants of Empires, which didn't give a fuck about the common folk in the first place. They're MAGA but even worse. Their Trump isn't even alive anymore.

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bRiCk404@reddit

Byzantine officially called it Constantinople and Ottoman Empire officially called it Kostantiniyye. So the officials were acknowledging the fact that it's the city of Constantine the Great on both sides.

Common folk called it Stamboul or Stambul. Originating from the greek phrase "to the city". So Stamboul became Istanbul, just like Nicea becoming İznik or s'Amison becoming Samsun in modern Turkish. And the word "Istanbul" isn't the version Turks have invented either. It has no meaning in Turkish. The earliest you can see the close variations of the word Istanbul used is the 10th century Armenian and Arabic resources.

It's not. They are different names. They both exist in English and other languages. If they are not, how do they please exist in English? It was Constantinople in Turkish to. Turkey changed the cities name. But the greeks didn't except it for no other reason than they are butthurts. Nothing to do with language.

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bRiCk404@reddit

Greeks use Constantinople for Istanbul because they have used it for centuries

I just explained to you that Greeks did not use the word Constantinople for Istanbul. The word Istanbul or variations of it (Stambouli, Stanboul, etc.) is of Greek origin and used by the Greeks for more than 2000 years. I had Rum neighbours in Istanbul that still call it "Stambuli" to this day. They are the descendants of Greeks who lived in Istanbul for centuries. Calling it Constantinople was a political choice for Christian rulers of the west to deny the thought of Ottoman Empire claiming it's successor status of the Roman Empire. It's a political thing. It's a shame that Greek folks think they have always honoured a Roman Emperor when addressing their ancestor's city.

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panoskj@reddit

Instabul, which comes from "to the city" in Greek, would only make sense to be used in the context of being near that city. For your info, Constantinople's etymology also contains the word city in it (Constantinople literally translates to Constantine's city). So it makes a lot of sense that locals would shorten this and say "the city" instead of saying the full "Constantine's city" everytime.

But if you lived in Athens for example, "the city" here would be Athens. So simply saying "the city" wouldn't explain which city you are talking about: that's what names are for. For someone living in Athens (or most of Greece) it would always make more sense to use the full name (ie Constantinople). Turks changed the official name later, but the old name had been widely used in Greece basically forever - it is impossible to change that.

It's as simple as that. I don't get why some Turks try to twist this and get offended by it.

Imagine Greeks getting offended because you call their country Greece instead of Hellas, how silly would that be? Because that's exactly how your point of view looks like to me right now.

As another commenter said, it's common in Greek to use alternative names like Holland instead of Netherlands and Gallia instead of France. You can't simply force people to stop using a name and start using another name instead.

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bRiCk404@reddit

Constantinople was THE city for more than a thousand years for everyone in the region, not just people living there. Why do you only think people make these comments because they are offended? These are sociohistorical arguments. Look up your own history. Go to a remote town in Greece and ask an elderly person what they call Istanbul. Ask what their grandfathers called it.

I personally don't care if you still would call Turkish cities in their original Greek names like Stambouli, Nicea or Samison. Germans don't care if you call it Köln or Cologne. But saying everyone always called it Constantinople... it doesn't offend me, it just makes me sad for Greek people.

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panoskj@reddit

So you really believe that someone who lived in Athens 500, 1000 or 2000 years ago would say "the city" and mean Instabul? I don't think so. When people say "the city" they usually mean the city they live in and I believe this must have been the case since the first city was built.

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bRiCk404@reddit

What Greek people of Istanbul called the city is more relevant than what people of Athens called it in my opinion. And this is how they taught it to the others. Common folk of Greeks, Jews, Armenians, Assyrians, Georgians, Turks, etc. They all called it some variation of "the city" in Greek. Armenian and Arabic resources from the 10th century calls it Stanboul.

Short answer is no. It's because there aren't LOTS of turks clamining whatever their dicks want related to "pekin" or trying to decide what it's future should be, unlike istanbul.

It's really simple my man. If lot's of people uses a word in bad intentions, such as n-word or f-word, you do not get to use them even if you dont mean it. Because you gonna offend people and you know it.

Call it whatever you want honestly idgaf about that but it's still political.

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PckMan@reddit

Are you seriously equating "Constantinople" with a slur? With the n word?

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enesulken@reddit

There is no way one would think they are equals. I was just giving an example.

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i feel like you didn't really read anything i said

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Inner_Variety2826@reddit

I feel like you deliberately ignoring what I'm saying.

On your first comment of yours I replied you said

There is no way one would think they are equals. I was just giving an example.

And then continue on comparing a racist slur with the name Constantinople on the basis that "both can offend people" And I'm asking you how a name of a city that was being in use for over a millennium and even been used by the Ottomans themselfs as being offensive?

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Returntomonke21@reddit

Why do you call Thessaloniki as Sellanik? Does it carry an "an underlying political view"???

Why do you call the island of Lesvos as Midilli? Does it carry an "an underlying political view"???

Why do you call the Aegean Sea as Ege Denizi? Does it carry an "an underlying political view"???

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dogaaki@reddit

I guess Turkish people associate the Constantinople name with the Ottoman Empire and since there was a huge chunk of the population throughout history that tried to close down the republic in favor of monarchy, some Turkish people get weird about it. And I'd say most Turkish people don't speak English well or often enough to know about the name switches between languages. In reality I don't think it matters unless Macron or Trump calls it that or something :D Call İstantinople anything y'all want

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enesulken@reddit

Lmao i call that selanik only when im talking to a turkish dude. For example i don't ever call greece with its turkish name yunanistan either.

Oh if you see any turkish dude call them by a name that not everyone uses in the world, because they either don't know it or it's political too yes.

While speaking English if somebody says Constantinople it sounds as they are talking about the historical city (the old version). And if they call it İstanbul, they mean the modern city in most contexts.

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enesulken@reddit

yo why did u remove your hateful commet bro

Spare-Read-7597@reddit

Does'nt change the fact, it's current name is Istanbul. It's not normal to use old name.

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iluvatar_gr@reddit

I don't care. When I speak in English I use Istanbul.

The Greek name is really only a matter of habit. You are getting angry with the wrong Greek I can assure of that hahahahaha

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AyiBogan54@reddit

The thing is its not actually about that, at least for me. I just want people to call it correctly for us its not that much about being a Greek naming. Its about the stereotype some Europeans have about balkan countries and it pushes these stereotypes more, like they would think we are more "backward" people. If people would know how many city names/provinces have a greek/persian (farsi) naming origin...

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Silver-bullit@reddit

It’s most glorious days were under Ottoman rule and then it was called Constantinople, so what’s the point🙄

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freek_@reddit

Turkish, offended by everything ahsmed by nothing

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thatMrGecko@reddit

in the meantime the comment section is full of turks who don't give a shit

hobokenguyquestion@reddit

What do you think the average Israelis opinion on the military actions against Gaza, West Bank, Iran, Lebanon, Syria?

miklagard is what vikings called istanbul. they named it "the big city" because it was the biggest city they'd ever seen.

Hoooly uncalled for Serbia vs Slovenia comment ahahahahaha

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hadron_enforcer@reddit

the_lonely_creeper@reddit

To be fair, that's normal. Languages have their own names for places, especially when there's a history to that place.

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ShitassAintOverYet@reddit

Exactly.

When a Greek speaking in Greek language says Constantinopoli it's normal as fuck. It's not like every Greek has some cartoon villain type agreement like "If we don't call it İstanbul the city will soon be ours nyehehehe". Hell, we didn't officially change the name until 1930 and İstanbul is also a Greek origin name. The change was more about removing the monarch name and giving it the name commoners have used all the way back since Roman Empire times. Since Greece was a monarch they didn't bother to change and that's about it despite what Turkish and Greek keyboard warriors claim.

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the_lonely_creeper@reddit

It's not exactly to do with Greece being a monarchy at the time (in fact, we weren't a monarchy in the 30's, we kicked our king out in the early 20's and someone brought him back in the late 30's).

Idk why greeks are so obsessed with constantinople even ottomans used that name in offical documents after the conquest it doesnt really mean much

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thatMrGecko@reddit

it's the greek name of the city. as in, what istanbul is called in the greek language is constantinople.

There's not any secret reason behind it. We just don't do it.

We also call France, Gallia (from Gauls) if that makes you feel better.

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Spare-Read-7597@reddit

You don't do it because you'r butthurt, even after 600 years after. That's the reason!

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BlKaiser@reddit

There's only one butthurt here sweetheart and it isn't me.

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Spare-Read-7597@reddit

You can't say that, after still calling it the İstanbul in it's name, when it belonged to you, after 600 years. You have to just let it go!

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moltisanti361@reddit

i see people waving greek flags in front of hagia sophia so i couldnt agree with your comment

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BlKaiser@reddit

Have you seen the greek people who visited hagia sophia and DIDN'T do that?

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moltisanti361@reddit

im not generalizing but i see news like this every year i never visited greece so i dont know how many people there think this way but its a fact that certain group i clearly obsessed

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Volaer@reddit

I honestly only see Turks who express outrage online (sometimes jokingly, sometimes seriously) at the fact the city is simply called Konstantinopolis in Greek.

I keep saying Turks don't know their own history and keep getting proven right at every turn.

The city's official name became Istanbul only after 1930. We called it Konstantiniyye (Turkicized version of Constantinople) for a millennia.

So this guy saying "nononono" can go fuck himself with his idiotic nationalist bullshit.

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Spare-Read-7597@reddit

Only nationalistic bs is calling it Constantinople!

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kyzylkhum@reddit

We called it Kostantiniyye

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BlKaiser@reddit

He was probably saying it in a joking manner. That's why the girl started laughing once she said it.

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chrstianelson@reddit

Yeah, no I get it.

I think it’s a dead horse we need to stop beating. It’s Instabul, has been for a long time.

Turks are weird, they even want to control what other nationalities call their country. They are not happy with Turkey. They want it to be called Türkiye. Imagine the French trying to force the Germans to abandon the word Frankreich. Or Germans trying to force English speakers to stop calling their country Germany and use the word Deutschland.

How many time do I need to explain it more? Istanbul and Constantinople aren't just translations. They are different words. So, greeks hads to call it Istanbul either.

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munchmills@reddit

I've heard only greek people call it Instabul.

I'd love to visit some day fr

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mittelhart@reddit

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accept to call it Constantinopoli

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Inner_Variety2826@reddit

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I swear, so many Romanians look like the Turkish guy (for obvious historic reasons) and the pronunciation of most of those cities sounded the same way as in Romanian.

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