The North American Union (basically a ripoff EU)
Posted by IndependenceSad1272@reddit | CrazyIdeas | View on Reddit | 83 comments
Okay so imagine this:
The United States and Canada both dissolve into their internal divisions.
So instead of 2 countries, we now have:
- 50 U.S. states
- 5 U.S. territories
- 1 federal district
- 10 Canadian provinces
- 3 Canadian territories
Which means North America suddenly becomes:
69 countries.
California? Country.
Texas? Country.
Ontario? Country.
Puerto Rico? Country.
Yukon? Country.
BUT — all 69 countries immediately join a new supranational organization called the North American Union (NAU), basically our version of the European Union.
So you'd still have:
- Open borders
- Shared currency
- Free movement
- Common trade policies
- Massive economic integration
But every state/province now has way more autonomy and identity.
Idaho would literally have an embassy in Florida.
You'd carry an Idaho passport instead of a U.S. passport.
Quebec and Texas would both act like semi-independent nations while still being tied into the NAU economy.
And before people say “isn’t that already basically how the U.S. works?” — not even close.
U.S. states are not sovereign countries.
Texas cannot negotiate treaties with France.
Florida cannot open embassies in California.
Washington state cannot join military alliances with British Columbia.
New York cannot issue internationally recognized passports or directly negotiate trade agreements with Ontario.
This would basically turn every state/province into an actual nation-state while still keeping most of the economic/practical benefits of staying unified.
In both the US and Canada, there are several states/provinces/territories that want to become independent:
- California
- Texas
- Cascadia (Washington, Oregon, British Columbia)
- Quebec
- Puerto Rico
- Alberta
Imagine if the entire EU become one country, Portugal and Poland having to share a country? They are so vasty different. Thomas Jefferson himself assumed that the West Coast would be it's own country.
For the NAU capital, I think we should do what South Africa does and split it between multiple cities instead of trying to force one “true” capital.
My proposal:
- Executive capital: Washington, DC
- Legislative capital: Kansas City or Minneapolis. We should try and make it close to the center of population
- Judicial capital: Vancouver
That way neither the U.S. nor Canada fully dominates the union politically, and the power centers are geographically spread out across the continent instead of everything being concentrated on the East Coast.
We could also open up NAU membership to maybe any carribean countries that want to join.
Aardvark_Man@reddit
Not adding Mexico, too? An extra 31 states and another federal territory.
IndependenceSad1272@reddit (OP)
Neither the US nor Canada allow visa-free travel from Mexico. and we just don't have the same level of integration.
Forsaken_Counter_887@reddit
Isn't the whole point of your union to... allow visa free travel?
IndependenceSad1272@reddit (OP)
Yes, to place WITHIN the union. Not Mexico.
Forsaken_Counter_887@reddit
Yes but your stated reason for not wanting Mexico is because you need a visa to travel. Your union removes that need.
IndependenceSad1272@reddit (OP)
We don't want to allow visa-free/freedom of momevent travel from Mexico.
Actual_Cat4779@reddit
A lot of people said that about Romania or even Poland before they joined the EU.
Forsaken_Counter_887@reddit
And I'm sure Canada would prefer to keep you out too
IndependenceSad1272@reddit (OP)
Are you Canadian?
Bright_Curve3078@reddit
Yeah that would be a... crazy idea
IndependenceSad1272@reddit (OP)
Yeah I don't think the US or Canada would be too happy about having to support a THIRD official language (English, French, and now Spanish).
Actual_Cat4779@reddit
Thought you were basing this on the EU. The EU has 24 official languages, and the EU bureaucracy has three working languages.
konamioctopus64646@reddit
If the US and Canada merged into one union, French would be the third most spoken language, with Spanish beating it
Aardvark_Man@reddit
So?
It's a crazy idea. I'm not sure, but I'd imagine that parts of the EU didn't allow that either, until the EU brought it about.
IndependenceSad1272@reddit (OP)
Nobody in the US or Canada would want Mexico to have unrestricted entry, and rights to live, work, and study in the US or Canada.
Brahminmeat@reddit
I’d sooner have us join with Mexico than with the US
HerfDerfer@reddit
I'd sooner have us join with Mexico than with canada
Aardvark_Man@reddit
Are you suggesting you want a passable idea, or a crazy idea?
Because if you want a passable idea you're in the wrong place.
Get your extra 31 states if it's a crazy idea.
IndependenceSad1272@reddit (OP)
Good point. Where's the sub for passable ideas
Mission_Effect4584@reddit
Can the Yanks go 5 minutes without proposing annexing Canada?
IndependenceSad1272@reddit (OP)
This isn't annexation. This is a partnership organization.
Forsaken_Counter_887@reddit
It's annexation in practice. The US has ~5x the population of Canada, and a common culture and legal system not shared by Canada.
IndependenceSad1272@reddit (OP)
We can have our new version of the senate give more votes to the former Canadian provinces so it doesn't become US dominated. and add in some carribean countries to help increase the number of non-US population.
AutoModerator@reddit
Your post was automatically removed because it contains political content, which is off-topic for /r/CrazyIdeas. Please review the subreddit rules and guidelines.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
BobbyP27@reddit
As a Canadian, I would have zero desire to participate in this. I suspect a lot of Canadians would feel similarly.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
Your post was automatically removed because it contains political content, which is off-topic for /r/CrazyIdeas. Please review the subreddit rules and guidelines.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
IsaacHasenov@reddit
As a Canadian naturalized in the States I would say to Canadians: yeah don't let this happen it's a terrible idea.
PaxNova@reddit
Tbh, if there was some sort of union, it would probably be as each province / territory being a state. The framework is already there, the sizes and populations are about right, and there’s enough autonomy for states that all the big things can remain, like your province-based healthcare.
Not that I’m saying it should happen; I’d welcome Canadians, though it’s their choice to apply. But if a union were to happen, that’s probably how.
Legal-Stage-302@reddit
I’m an American and think it’s a stupid idea.
IndependenceSad1272@reddit (OP)
Why's that?
Fireproofspider@reddit
Honestly, this was thought to be the direction North America was going in the mid 2000s, maybe in a few more decades with the evolution of NAFTA (including Mexico). At least some kind of economic union at first. Recent talks of annexation of Canada have killed this for a while.
IndependenceSad1272@reddit (OP)
Sad
HelloThereItsMeAndMe@reddit
As you can see by the deleted comments it is because of p o l . i t i c . s. Which is obvious.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
Your post was automatically removed because it contains political content, which is off-topic for /r/CrazyIdeas. Please review the subreddit rules and guidelines.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
Your post was automatically removed because it contains political content, which is off-topic for /r/CrazyIdeas. Please review the subreddit rules and guidelines.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
Your post was automatically removed because it contains political content, which is off-topic for /r/CrazyIdeas. Please review the subreddit rules and guidelines.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
BobbyP27@reddit
Unfortunately I am unable to engage in discussion about this subject because the auto-moderator bot deems it off topic and deletes my comment.
Inthepurple@reddit
Same, pretty shit subreddit tbh
AutoModerator@reddit
Your post was automatically removed because it contains political content, which is off-topic for /r/CrazyIdeas. Please review the subreddit rules and guidelines.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
Your post was automatically removed because it contains political content, which is off-topic for /r/CrazyIdeas. Please review the subreddit rules and guidelines.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
Your post was automatically removed because it contains political content, which is off-topic for /r/CrazyIdeas. Please review the subreddit rules and guidelines.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
Uma_mii@reddit
So how about the original (EU)?
BobbyP27@reddit
The EU faces the challenge that its inherent structure is based around consensus of all the member states. The difficulty the EU has had dealing with Fidez and PIS highlights this. Its ways of organising itself worked well enough prior to the 2003 accession of the Visegrad group, but now is very unwieldy.
FluffyProphet@reddit
Yeah, fuck this.
Biuku@reddit
Yes. This is a very crazy idea indeed.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
Your post was automatically removed because it contains political content, which is off-topic for /r/CrazyIdeas. Please review the subreddit rules and guidelines.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
Tomj_Oad@reddit
Not everyone thinks joining the USA is a step up
I hate to be the one
But our northern cousins are happy to remain cousins
SpiderHomeNoWayMan@reddit
It's only worth it if we get Ameri-vision, an annual singing contest.
Sigma2915@reddit
so much country music…
Brahminmeat@reddit
Now a CAN + MEX union? I’m listening
Brahminmeat@reddit
All of the independence discussions in those territories you mentioned are minority
Radiant-Importance-5@reddit
I actually had a not-too-dissimilar idea a while back, except I included Mexico as well. Mexico has 31 states, plus its own federal district, bringing the total up to 101 statelets.
Key points:
This intrastate/superstate union would start separately, evolving from something like NAFTA, and the constituent countries wouldn’t dissolve until the superstate was ready and all parties agreed to it.
The “Big 3” also wouldn’t necessarily be the end of the conversation. Caribbean as Central American countries could also join, although I’d imagine them joining on par with the statelets, rather than subdividing themselves. They’re small enough as is, I think it would make more sense.
Another point would be to further neuter the (former) US’s dominance of the union by making it unable to start unless the US makes up less than a certain percentage of the new superstate. This is part of why the other countries can join, to help achieve this goal. Something like half of the population, land area, and statelets needed to originate from outside the US before any progress could be made.
To further push this point, I also discussed multiple capitals, specifically two. One at Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico, and the other at Windsor, Ontario, Canada. Those are, respectively, the largest cities either country has on their respective borders with the US, and part of their respective largest transborder agglomeration, but are specifically outside the (former) US, so those countries feel represented. I’d figured on a possible third capital at Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic for the smaller countries that joined.
Boomshank@reddit
For the record, Alberta and Quebec don't "want to be independent."
There are just jobs within both provinces who make a lot of noise about separating (often fueled by foreign actors, like the US currently with Alberta) but as a whole, all of the provinces are quite happy where they are.
underwaterCanuck@reddit
They also have asked if they want to join the states in some polls and is like 1%
BigDogBossHog_@reddit
This is bad idea, the EU already can’t present a strong front due to their lack of cohesion, and often decisions are permanently stuck in committee reviews.
This sounds like when the early US constitution, the articles of confederation which didn’t really work
IndependenceSad1272@reddit (OP)
States would get more autonomy.
Sea_Hold_2881@reddit
the EU works because it is federation of large powers which are basically equals with a large number of smaller powers that collectively equal the larger powers.
NA is dominated by US. There is no viable EU like plan for NA.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
Your post was automatically removed because it contains political content, which is off-topic for /r/CrazyIdeas. Please review the subreddit rules and guidelines.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
soundman32@reddit
Don't something like 50% of Americans not have a passport? Now imagine telling some Floridian he needs to pay to get papers so he can go to Louisiana. There's gunna be guns a totein.
xrelaht@reddit
There is freedom of movement within the Schengen Zone: they are not allowed to ask for a passport when you travel inside it. I assume the same would be true here.
IndependenceSad1272@reddit (OP)
Correct
Famous-Prior6590@reddit
About 75% of US states would go bankrupt on day 1. Most states survive by leeching off of CA, NY, TX and maybe a few others.
karoxxxxx@reddit
The eu transfers money via cohesion fond between rich and poor economies
Dave_A480@reddit
Welcome to 2008's Alex Jones conspiracy theory
John_Tacos@reddit
The US tried this. Under the Articles of Confederation. It was a disaster
GSilky@reddit
Pan American perspectives got McKinley killed.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
Your post was automatically removed because it contains political content, which is off-topic for /r/CrazyIdeas. Please review the subreddit rules and guidelines.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
Your post was automatically removed because it contains political content, which is off-topic for /r/CrazyIdeas. Please review the subreddit rules and guidelines.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
Your post was automatically removed because it contains political content, which is off-topic for /r/CrazyIdeas. Please review the subreddit rules and guidelines.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
PaganMastery@reddit
Well that is a recipe for disaster. Good for this sub reddit though.
Ok_Tumbleweed1247@reddit
I for you one, think it would be pretty great. It doesn't even seem that crazy.