How to stop bags down the slides
Posted by BilboBagginkins@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 42 comments
Assuming airlines will not invest in FA-controlled overhead locks, and acknowledging a US airline could have its own Aeroflot 1492-type evacuation disaster and the average traveler would not care, I propose:
$10,000 fine per person and a lifetime air travel ban.
What is your idea?
railker@reddit
Locks would be wildly expensive, if I had to guess based on the prices of other aviation parts I see. And a nuisance. Make it a safety critical item, it grounds the plane whenever it breaks or doesn't work. Don't make it a safety critical item ... then why is it there?
Looking for something else and found that in addition to the 26-year-old NTSB report noting a problem with people taking their bags, found this 8-year-old news article from after an American Airlines evac that echoes basically the same NTSB investigation headlines as this Frontier one.
And as recently as a year ago, I posted the other week the final report from a United evac, again, with carry-on baggage a hailed issue (among passengers intimidating and forcing their way past FAs to open an exit).
I hate to be the cynic but this problem is old enough to have grown up and have its own kids in school.
Nobody died in this one, it won't be the one to break the cycle.
penywisexx@reddit
A 737 runs around 50-60 million dollars, adding a locking system to the bins that is connected to the fasten seatbelt sign would be not be an insane addition to the overall cost of the aircraft. It would reduce injuries during flight from bins opening and people removing their seatbelts and standing up at unsafe times putting themselves and other passengers at risk. Even at $5,000 a bin (probably could do it for less) the extra cost would be a fraction of a percentage of the aircraft cost.
railker@reddit
You could probably do it for less in your garage, maybe. How much experience do you have with aircraft parts and STC certification/installation?
letsoverclock@reddit
Don’t southwest have some 737ng which still have hinged door that swing up and Boeing sky interior dropdown bins? That would complicate the matter even for southwest which only has 737’s.
railker@reddit
Ohhh shit forgot about that even, yeah. Don't think it's even the same company makes those bins, multiple manufacturers to deal with.
Amiklauf@reddit
Unfortunately, in most all of aviation the physical part cost is only a small portion of the total expense. Think of design and certification, retrofitting (i.e. taking airplanes out of service and mechanics' time installing the locks), maintenance costs when they break, writing new procedures for FAs and pilots, retraining FAs on fighting H/E fires in locked overhead bins.
All for questionable safety benefits. Who is to say, for example, that the same people that take their bags won't block the aisle trying to pry open the bins to get at their bags instead of evacuating with urgency?
At that point, I think we're much better simply removing overhead bins and raising fees for checked bags to reduce demand.
Mean_Passenger_7971@reddit
My hot take on this: it’s on the airlines, authorities and aircraft designers to fix this.
Reality has shown that people WILL go for their bags. Certification standards need to be updated so that emergency evacuation test accounts for X% of people trying to retrieve their bags the same way it accounts for impaired people and half the doors being INOP.
This is the only solution that will save life’s. Everything else, like fines, is just a smoke screen of morality.
railker@reddit
There is already some accounting for that, in addition to half the exits randomly being unusable and such, from AC 25.803:
praetor450@reddit
Yeah it’s basically the aviation industry as whole the ones that have come up with a solution. Relying on the passengers to not do so won’t be effective in my opinion.
There will be people without will always go for their bags no matter what because what they are carrying is selfishly considered more important to them than someone’s life. Given that during that bags retrieval or carrying could prevent someone from evacuating.
Others might do so because of the mentally that it’s just them, no one else will so I can get away with it, not realizing many others are having that thought as well.
praetor450@reddit
On point that doesn’t get mentioned is that during stressful situations people can and do react erratically and unpredictable.
You can have warning and let passengers know that if they take their bags they will receive a hefty fine and there is a good chance people will still do it. Part of the reason can be that it is a normal ingrained behaviour that is done when you leave an airplane. So during a stressful event they possibly revert back to that, I must get my bags like I always do.
Let’s look at the passenger safety demos, how many people actually pay attention to those? That demo provides you with potentially life saving information compared to a fine if you take your bags during an evacuation. Yet people don’t pay attention even when the information can be the difference between life or death.
How many people actually pay attention and know which is the closest emergency exit to them, or do they just tend to rush to front because that’s what they remember that when they boarded it was from the front of the airplane.
It won’t be an easy solution, it needs both more education, possibly penalties to passengers, and some form of mechanism to prevent passengers from physically retrieving their bags during an evacuation.
BilboBagginkins@reddit (OP)
If not a ban and monetary penalty, then make it a criminal penalty if there people found to have burned or smoke inhalation to death, the people who exited with bags should face manslaughter charges. Let the courts and lawyers litigate it.
The airlines have made it abundantly clear in departure briefings, know where to go, know how to use the exits in an exit row, and dont take your bags.
It's time to hold people to account. People will die on a US airline eventually because of this behavior.
railker@reddit
The thing I don't like about this plan is it relies on action after the fact, not prevention. By the time you bring manslaughter charges, people are already dead. Not to mention have you seen our criminal justice system? Charges get dismissed and plea deals made daily just to try and reduce how much load there is on the system, courts have to make ends meet to avoid constantly exceeding the rights to a timely trial.
Are big fines and threats of federal prosecution enough to prevent people's lives being lost? There's been more unruly passenger reports to the FAA in the first 4 months of this year than all of 2017 and $700,000 in fines issued.
Cumulatively in 2021-2025, the FAA received 14,217 unruly passenger reports resulting in 1,619 people having enforcement action taken against them with fines totalling $26.3 million USD.
At that ratio and with 131 reports on average still coming in every month, there's still 15 people every month in the US alone getting investigated and fined for being a twat on an airplane.
praetor450@reddit
I can’t really argue against what you are saying, especially the fact that by taking your bags not only are you slowing down the evacuation and therefore endangering others in the process.
Do we need to hold people accountable for that, yes, however the difficulty is how do we go about. It might require people being sued by those affected, which might not be that difficult to establish given how many people record evacuations as they are happening. I’m no lawyer, just the idiot at the front the flips switches and presses buttons and never can control the cabin temp properly.
Booouurns@reddit
Maybe I am too cynical, but I would bet **a lot** of money there's a significant percentage of passengers that truly don't even know you are supposed to leave your bags. As you said, no one listens to the briefings. This is in addition to those who know but willingly do it anyway.
praetor450@reddit
You wouldn’t be that far off and I would also make that bet as well.
rotordrvr@reddit
I agree with the fine and travel ban.
Chapman1949@reddit
Fines and bans served to, THOSE who HAVE them in the AFTER evacuation debriefing session that FAA and NTSB hold for virtually every incident. Word will get around FAST...
DissociatedOne@reddit
Why can’t they lock the bins? To expensive to retrofit?
penywisexx@reddit
You think they could make them remotely lock like car doors. Anytime the fasten seatbelt light is on the bins automatically lock. That would prevent bins from opening during severe turbulence and from passengers standing up to access them when it is not safe to do so. Considering the overall cost of the plane the price to install a feature like this would really be minor.
praetor450@reddit
You can design a system like that but, since it’s aviation it will not be cheap to design, test, certify, install, and maintain for the rest of the airplanes service life. That will add up pretty quickly.
It’s not like a car that you can go to any store and buy off the shelf stuff and install it.
BMFC@reddit
There is a fire in the locked bin. Who has the key. Hurry! Oh damn the key won’t work. Can’t fight the fire. Everybody is dead.
penywisexx@reddit
A lot of airlines are banning lithium batteries (especially power banks) in overhead bins. A manual override to the locks would not be difficult (the locks are or safety not security), so a simple manual key to retract the locking pins wouldn’t be difficult to add. I personally think the trade of would be worth it, I’ve seen videos of bins opening during severe turbulence, I’m sure it’s more common than an uncontrolled lithium battery fire that could disable the lock before being discovered.
praetor450@reddit
What can be consider simple solution isn’t always the case for aviation.
If you start with a remote master control, seat belt sign, to be what dictates when they are locked or unlocked, and then add a manual override to the system you have added a lot more maintenance for starters to said system.
So you have added weight, which airlines don’t want because that will increase the operational empty weight of the aircraft which means permanent increase fuel burn to that aircraft.
Then you have the matter of how do you get it certified, to ensure that system won’t cause any issues. Once it’s installed on the airplane what happens if part of that system doesn’t work? Depending on the supplemental type certificate (the paper work that allows the add on), will it allow people to still use the over head bin? Or will those spaces be considered inoperable because there is no lock mechanism?
As for this key you say, who will carry the key? Pilots only, or flight attendants or will it be keys onboard each airplane stored somewhere through the cabin. So now you have added extra safety equipment which means added training costs. Again not something airlines want.
As for bins opening during turbulence, part of in my opinion it can be the weight of the bags themselves possibly ramming on the door as they are shaken during turbulence. Not all airlines have a strict weight control to carry on bags as compared to checked baggage.
I do agree something must be done to discouraged passengers from retrieving their bags during an evacuation.
BMFC@reddit
All great points.
Shadowrend01@reddit
If they were lockable, they’ve have to constantly be unlocking and relocking them to facilitate passenger access during normal flight. They don’t want to do that
Chase-Boltz@reddit
Just lock them during mandatory seat belt periods; takeoff, landing, turbulence, etc.
saveitforparts@reddit
Do people routinely access the overhead bins during flight? I feel like I've rarely if ever seen that happen, but I'm usually only on flights of a few hours at most.
Difficult_Camel_1119@reddit
at least those sitting on an emergency row usually have to, as they have to put everything in the overhead bins and are not allowed to have stuff at their seat
BlurryEcho@reddit
I have seen it happen on every flight I have taken, many times more than one person or one person that does it several times.
Difficult_Camel_1119@reddit
people would try ro open the locked bins before evacuation
avboden@reddit
Safety, emergency supplies passengers may have, device fires all sorts of reasons
BrewCityChaserV2@reddit
Think about how impractical this idea is. Are you going to have flight attendants locking and unlocking each bin before and after every flight? Or will there be some kind of mass electronic interlocking system which relies on electromechanical devices to do this from a switch somewhere? Both methods are complicated and expensive in terms of either time or cost.
The most likely scenario is that if you have locked bins, is that when an accident happens, the bins are unable to unlock, and the passengers, already in a panicked state, spend even more time trying to reach their carry-ons before exiting the airplane. It's probably better just to let them grab them and evacuate than preventing them from doing the former. I don't see any way of enforcing them to not do it without sacrificing the precious time it takes to exit a burning airplane. People suck but we have to choose the best options for the overall good.
Mr-Brown-Is-A-Wonder@reddit
burning at the stake
Longjumping_Rule_560@reddit
Or inside the plane?
Necessary-Apricot339@reddit
Stakes on a plane? Could be a movie there . . .
Any_Vacation8988@reddit
People can’t even board a plane correctly. What makes people think they’ll be better prepared to deplane an aircraft in a stressful emergency situation. During an emergency if you’re grabbing your bag you should pushed out of the way and trampled by passengers.
0------------------0@reddit
Use reverse psychology. Instead of punishing them, give them a reward: $10k cash and lifetime first class travel.
pipic_picnip@reddit
Jealous_Fail6071@reddit
Our high trust society has completely disappeared. Any aircraft evacuation outside of a couple Asian countries is a death trap. It was amazing seeing that entire A350 in Japan deplane without a single person wandering around checking out the damage or carrying a big ass backpack.
Technical_Anteater45@reddit
Prosecution, detention, encarceration, fine, travel ban.
See how make takers sign up for that.
New-IncognitoWindow@reddit
If I’m not already in an exit row I am punching and kicking you and your children on the way to the door so get off or gtf out of the way. Hopes this helps.
pattern_altitude@reddit
4 year air travel ban, no fine. Maybe even 2-3 years. That's plenty to teach people a lesson.