How come Neum became part of Bosnia when ~98% of the locals are Croatians? What’s the history behind it?

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New_Reception_5387@reddit

bro let Bosnia have a coast line in peace 😭

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zanimljivo123@reddit

No, neum is herzegovina. Bosnia isn't a country, but a landlocked region.

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do you really think that people outside of BiH and surrounding countries know that those are regions 💀 no one’s goal is to exclude Herzegovina, saying just Bosnia is just shorter and everybody knows what country they are talking about

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zanimljivo123@reddit

Is it really hard to remember two regions which both are in the nane of the country...

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silentmarrow@reddit

nobody gives a fuck about some country in southeastern Europe lmao..? Why don’t you say United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland instead of UK?

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zanimljivo123@reddit

Because it is united kingdon of all those states so saying uk refers to all of them while on the other hand herzegovina and bosnis are seperate regions.

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Gadoguz994@reddit

The country is called Bosnia and Herzegovina. And Neum is in the Herzegovina region of it... double fail

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zanimljivo123@reddit

Correct. So technically, bosnia (geograaphical region) is landlocked, but country to which it belongs to, bosnia amd herzegovina, does have sea acces because one of the regions (herzegovina) has sea acces.

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Zlatty@reddit

When I lived there the alignment to Croatia was insane. Literally everyone was Catholic and we had to go to Church to show that we're Catholic as much as they are. The church was all the way up the hill and a concrete monstrosity as it was not completed due to the war. Also all the kids would quiz me on my family members names to make sure I wasn't a Muslim or a Orthodox spy. 90s in Neum were wild. Now it's a wonderful hodgepodge of locals and drunk hillbillies on vacation.

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Fantastic-Reading-78@reddit

Too much ustashe in neum.

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Key-Football-7492@reddit

You should check out the rest of bosnia you’ll be amazed how many mujahedeens and chetnicks there are

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Strawhateer@reddit

I actually visited Bosnia and it was a super secular place. Most people in Muslim regions are not visibly Muslim, so not sure what you're on about.

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Fantastic-Reading-78@reddit

I saw even ustashe in Bosnia...

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Cool-Pie430@reddit

I've got some of my family there and I believe you're lying. Neum locals were never at war against Bosniaks, animosity is mostly aimed at Serbs or as you say Orthodox peoples after the events at Ravno and shelling of Neum from Svitava positions.

Part about going to church is true, hasn't changed still. People rallied behind religion during war times, doing the same without the war is kinda stupid.

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Zlatty@reddit

My observation is based upon 8 summers and winters at our vacation home in Neum, a year and some living there in 1993, and visiting a couple of times since moving to the states. Though, during my time living there, there were many refugees thatmight have been more nationalistic.

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Far-Active-649@reddit

It's the Malta of the Balkans in regard to locals and drunk hillbillies

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Lipe_cvatu@reddit

Tldr. Dubrovnik wanted a buffer between it and north, sold Neum to Ottomans, Neum became part of the Ottoman province of Bosnia, it remained as such throughout various itterations of the region.

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Granwinter@reddit

This. There is Herceg Novi in Montenegro. It was given to Montenegro. Was part od Bosnian province.
Complicated those Ottomans are.

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Fast_Advantage_9790@reddit

False lol

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a_bright_knight@reddit

mifinformation final boss

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Similar-Speech2371@reddit

Exactly, the Republic of Ragusa/Dubrovnik wanted a puffer to the Republic of Venice. Dubrovnik formally gained independence from Venetian sovereignty in 1358 following the Peace Treaty of Zadar after over 150 years of Venetian rule. That puffer was Neum and itself under Ottoman sovereignty, effectively dividing the two Republics

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kiPrize_Picture9209@reddit

This region is so fascinating, one of the best parts of the Mediterranean. Unfortunately its been a bit overrun by tourists

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Unbanable4221@reddit

SVE JE ISTO K'O I LANI

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Key-Football-7492@reddit

The only guy who answered the question without blabbering about other BS

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ElderberrySpare6985@reddit

Bosnia is a multiethnic state, the whole reason for the Bosnian war was that the Serbs did not want a multiethnic state. They lost, so luckily there were no further discussion on whether parts of Bosnia should be annexed by its neighbours on ethnic lines.

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Livid_Army1541@reddit

War didnt start because serbs didnt want a multi ethnic state,it started because bosnia wanted to secede from yugoslavia and by doing so they would seperate 1 million serbs who wanted to stay in yugoslavia from yugoslavia

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Unable-Stay-6478@reddit

Serbs did not want a multiethnic state and yet you left Yugoslavia? Weird take...

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ElderberrySpare6985@reddit

Serbia took over the Yugoslav government and used that power to help the Serbs in Bosnia commit genocide. Of course everyone else wanted to leave given how brazen they were in governing Yugoslavia for Serbian interests, something they then proved by funding a genocide

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Unable-Stay-6478@reddit

So you are telling me that Yugoslavia fell apart because of Milošević? Why did Czechoslovakia fell apart? Or USSR? Genocide probably wouldn't have happened if you just let Serbs have thier country.

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langri-sha@reddit

You booted Slobodan Milošević and expect us to want his government running the country. Solid idea.

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Unable-Stay-6478@reddit

Exactly - then why are you doing the same now? Kind of hypocritical.

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krindjcat@reddit

Oh yeah late 80s Yugoslavia was a real melting pot where everyone was holding hands and power was spread evenly.

Remind me again, why did the other ones leave?

Who was in control of Yugoslavia after Tito died?

Who was the ethnic majority? Who was over represented in positions of power and JNA?

Where was the capital of Yugoslavia?

Who was the most opposed to decentralising the federal government and giving states autonomy? Who implemented the anti bureaucratic revolution?

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Unable-Stay-6478@reddit

Remind me again, why did the other ones leave?

They wanted independence, eventually. This wasn't anything uncommon. Look at other communist federations: Czechoslovakia and USSR.

Who was in control of Yugoslavia after Tito died?

Collective presidency and communist party leadership

Who was the ethnic majority? Who was over represented in positions of power and JNA?

Serbs and Montenegrins, but that was even during Tito and you didn't care back then.

Where was the capital of Yugoslavia?

Belgrade.

Who was the most opposed to decentralising the federal government and giving states autonomy? Who implemented the anti bureaucratic revolution?

Milošević and the anti-bureaucratic revolution are seen as a major turning point that accelerated the crisis. But the rise of nationalism started way before that - Slovenian spring, JBTZ trial, Croatian spring etc.

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New_Accident_4909@reddit

I am pretty sure the Bosniaks weren't fond of multi ethnic Yugoslavia.

Don't spin it... Noone wants multi ethnic state unless they are the dominant component.

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krindjcat@reddit

What makes you "pretty sure"? You're basing this on what exactly?

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New_Accident_4909@reddit

The fact the voted to separate

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langri-sha@reddit

Your making a logical fallacy here. The fact that we did vote for independence doesn't make your stated reason true.

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New_Accident_4909@reddit

It means you wanted multi ethnic state where you set the terms. Opposed to multi ethnic state where Serbs meade the terms.

You can try to wiggle and dance around it as much as you want.

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ElderberrySpare6985@reddit

Bullshit, Serbs and Croats outnumbered Muslims and the Bosnian Serbs openly declared in their six strategic goals their intention to conquer 70% of Bosnia, unify it with Serbia, and ethnically cleanse all non Serbs from it.

Six strategic goals of the Serbian people: separation of ethnic communities in the country, establishment of the borders of “the Serb people’s territories”, between the Drina, Una and Neretva rivers, erasing the Drina river as the border between the Serb part of Bosnia and neighboring Serbia.

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langri-sha@reddit

You actually want to stick together with someone who was undermining your officials, executing them and messing in our internal affairs? Or you think it was because we wanted to undermine, execute and mess with ourselves as an in-house drive-by?

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New_Accident_4909@reddit

I'll bite, name executed officials pre war?

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langri-sha@reddit

Džemica?

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New_Accident_4909@reddit

Who? What?

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ElderberrySpare6985@reddit

Here is what they voted for:

Are you for a sovereign and independent Bosnia and Herzegovina, a state of equal citizens, the people of Bosnia and Herzegovina — Muslims, Serbs, Croats and members of other peoples living in it?

This is separating from Yugoslavia, not ethnic separation.

Meanwhile this was the first point of the official national program of the Serb people adopted in 1992:

Separation from the other two national communities.

That IS ethnic separation.

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krindjcat@reddit

They wanted a multi-ethnic Bosnia in an increasingly non-multiethnic Yugoslavia of the late 80s, and that's your proof that they "weren't fond of multi-ethnic Yugoslavia"?

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New_Accident_4909@reddit

I'm waiting on examples of executions.

And regarding the multi ethnic part, thats what i meant by multi ethnic but on their own terms.

Also 90s Yugoslavia, even if was only Serbia, Montenegro and Bosnia and Herzegovina left would be multi ethnic.

Serbia today is only 83% Serb (without Kosovo)

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ElderberrySpare6985@reddit

The Bosniak proposal was a unified state with equal rights. The Serb proposal was genocide

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New_Accident_4909@reddit

Keeo spinning, you will be nauseous this tempo

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ElderberrySpare6985@reddit

I'm not spinning anything. 1992 Referendum question for which 99% of Bosniaks voted yes: Are you for a sovereign and independent Bosnia and Herzegovina, a state of equal citizens, the people of Bosnia and Herzegovina — Muslims, Serbs, Croats and members of other peoples living in it?

Meanwhile this was the first point of the official national program of the Serb people adopted in 1992: 1. Separation from the other two national communities.

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PasicT@reddit

They still want the annexation of parts of Bosnia.

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Unable-Stay-6478@reddit

Not really, we just don't want to be with someone that doesn't want us.

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ElderberrySpare6985@reddit

Except in 1992 the first pillar of the official Bosnian Serb program was already ethnic cleansing

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langri-sha@reddit

Have you, like, ever even traversed Bosnia and Herzegovina 👉👈? You might be surprised, but we're all living here together.

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Unable-Stay-6478@reddit

And? Is everyone happy with each other?

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langri-sha@reddit

You can find that out for yourself. We're not in a galaxy far far away.

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Unable-Stay-6478@reddit

Will do, I'm planning to visit Bosnia.

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PasicT@reddit

Neither do Bosniaks and Albanians.

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Unable-Stay-6478@reddit

No, I'm aware that Albanians got oppressed and I don't mind splitting up Kosovo between Serbian and Albanian parts (including Albanian majority parts in Serbia) - that would probably bring peace between the people.

Just like Bosnia.

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PasicT@reddit

You always don't mind any option as long as non-Serbs get screwed over and Serbs get rewarded through some kind of territorial partition or swap. And then you claim to not be a Serb nationalist, it's laughable.

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No-Narwhal-60@reddit

This is way to simplified and you know it

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kicklhimintheballs@reddit

Bosnia is not a nation state in the sense of Croatia and Serbia. It has been created to be decentralised and multiethnic, since it’s impossible to have a Muslim dominated state due to population being spread around without committing some mass ethnic cleansing.

So they kept the old Yugoslav borders which goes back to Austro-Hungarian conquest of the area.

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Gadoguz994@reddit

Bosnia is not a country at all, Bosnia and Herzegovina is.

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Drama-Gloomy@reddit

Except Neum has been part of BosniaHerzegovina territory since 1699.

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Old_Performer8531@reddit

peace agreement was signed between major European powers and Ottoman Turks in Sremski Karlovci to stop the big war Turkey was losing at the time.

Republic of Dubrovnik wanted to protect itself from Republic of Venice that gained a lot of land in Dalmatia in this war.

Republic of Dubrovnik made a deal with Leopold I, Holy Roman Emperor. They recognized his power in exchange for buffer zone.

Leopold I as defined by peace agreement in Karlovci agreed Neum will be given to Turks, as buffer zone between Venice and Dubrovnik.

So it did not become part of Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1699, Neum became part of Ottoman Empire.

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Drama-Gloomy@reddit

It became part of Ottoman Bosnia and Herzegovina

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Electro-Choc@reddit

So they kept the old Yugoslav borders which goes back to Austro-Hungarian conquest of the area.

Your estimation here is off by a few hundred years

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PasicT@reddit

"Created to be decentralised", yeah for morons like yourself who think the country was created in 1992. Your comment speaks volumes about your ignorance and arrogance.

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Gadoguz994@reddit

It didn't, it became part of Bosnia and Herzegovina, not Bosnia.

What's with all the election year ragebait with the name of the country on Reddit lately?

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Playful-Rope1590@reddit

Because it's always been a part of it ever since the Ottoman era.

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TemporaryAd2873@reddit

1700 is not always

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bosnanic@reddit

When Yugoslavia collapsed in the international community applied the principle of uti possidetis juris, meaning new states inherited their existing internal borders from the SFR of Yugoslavia to prevent territorial disputes. As a result, Neum remained part of Bosnia and Herzegovina as the SRBiH had owned it before the collapse.

Trying to push ethno-states in the Balkans only lead to bloodshed and atrocities so the international community wanting to avoid rewarding ethnic cleansing refused any state of the former Yugoslavia territorial gains/losses. It's the reason Macedonia has a large Albanian population today, Kosovo retained Serbian majority areas, and Montenegro has no ethnic majority.

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tompa_zg@reddit

Back when Yugoslavia was drawing its internal borders, the Croatian delegation was asked "you guys want this back" to which they answered with "it's cool, bro; we're all in the same country anyway".

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ElderberrySpare6985@reddit

They did de facto legitimize the Serbian separatism in Bosnia though by giving them an internal Serb republic with no prior historical basis

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Unable-Stay-6478@reddit

That's no unique case. See Bangladesh or Eritrea. It will become history basis.

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Anna_akademika@reddit

The story really begins at the end of the 17th century with the Treaty of Karlowitz in 1699. At that time, the Republic of Venice was spreading along the Dalmatian coast and making the Republic of Ragusa, what we now call Dubrovnik, pretty nervous. To protect themselves, they deliberately handed over this narrow strip of coastal land, Neum, to the Ottoman Empire. Their whole goal was to create a physical "buffer zone" between their own territory and Venice's, effectively using the Ottomans as a shield to prevent a direct border with their rival. Even though Neum has a Croatian majority today, that wasn't the main thing on anyone's mind back then; it was all about strategic power.

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

r/AskItaly

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