A hantavirus cruise ship just scattered 147 passengers to 23 countries with inconsistent quarantine. The CDC and Nebraska already disagree on whether to isolate them.
Posted by Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 444 comments
the MV Hondius docked in Tenerife today after 3 passengers died from Andes hantavirus. 147 people on board from 23 countries are now being repatriated on 10 separate flights. every country is handling quarantine differently.
Spain sent theirs to a military hospital. France is doing 72 hours hospital then 45 days home quarantine. Netherlands says quarantine at home. UK is hospitalizing for observation. Ireland says lengthy isolation. the US is flying passengers to Offutt Air Force Base, not a civilian hospital. the CDC says they will not quarantine anyone. Nebraskas governor says they will be isolated for up to 42 days and will not be able to leave. the federal government and the state are already contradicting each other before the plane has landed.
one French passenger showed symptoms on the repatriation flight. if confirmed, everyone on that plane was potentially exposed and France goes from a cruise ship incident to a domestic case.
the Andes virus is the only known hantavirus that transmits between humans. ECDC recommends monitoring for 42 days from May 6 which means mid-June. six weeks where a returned passenger in any of 23 countries could test positive.
the systemic risk here is not the virus itself. the fatality rate is brutal but the case count is small. the risk is in the dispersal. 23 countries, 10 flights, inconsistent protocols, a 42-day incubation window, and a federal government that cannot agree with its own state on whether quarantine is happening. we watched this exact coordination failure play out before.
sources: WHO, ECDC, CDC, CNN, NBC News, Government.nl, French Foreign Ministry.
rekabis@reddit
Found a fascinating interview with Harvard’s Professor of Exposure Assessment, Prof. Joseph Allen:
https://youtu.be/rO4Xd5PfIo0
While human-to-human transmission is not yet “trivial”, it has happened multiple times “without close contact”.
All we need is a convenient mutation or three, and that transmissibility could easily go to being totally trivial. And with a 20+% fatality rate…
jbond23@reddit
Or a population with a reduced immune system after multiple rounds of Covid.
rekabis@reddit
On a technical note: COVID did not reduce the efficacy of our immune system over the long haul. So long as someone completely recovered from the primary (body-wide) infection, immune systems remained as robust after COVID as before.
What COVID did was produce Long COVID, a series of persistent COVID infections in the brain (the immune system has difficulty reaching inside nerve cells, for example) that remained resident long after the primary body-wide infection was purged. Every subsequent re-infection of COVID via different strains dramatically increased the probability that someone would suffer from some variant of Long COVID.
jbond23@reddit
The study you quote is from 10 Feb 2023. That seems early to make such an authoritative denial.
Take the sentence, "If Covid reduced the effectiveness of the immune system, we'd see a rise in cases of XXX" and fill in XXX for hundreds of common and less common diseases. Like say, TB. In 2026, it turns out there's a really clear graphical signal that indeed XXX has increased since 2020, is still rising and really took off in around 2022. Almost as if covid infections and especially 2nd, 3rd and subsequent infections does indeed make your body worse at fighting infections.
1goodtern threads on rising common diseases since 2020 https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/2019488205100245504.html
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/2012968798622540049.html
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/2010081837142684124.html
And so on.
rekabis@reddit
Two issues:
jbond23@reddit
Well it's UK, NHS. So maybe it's just a UK thing. The data about NHS staff is public and available. The hard work is collating it.
As for 1GoodTern, they're not a professional analyst, but they are well regarded and I trust them.
Here's a US stat. TB hitting record levels in 2024. https://www.pulmonologyadvisor.com/news/tuberculosis-on-the-rise-again-in-the-united-states/
rekabis@reddit
Again, nothing to do with COVID, as it comes down mainly to travel, migration, less effective vaccines, and poverty.
So again: economically pressured populations where artificially-induced stressors negatively impact immune responses.
jbond23@reddit
It's the correlation vs causation thing.
If lots of diseases were more or less stable, but started increasing in incidence around 2020. Appear to be on an upward path and are reaching record levels for the last 30 years. It could be economically pressured populations. It could be early signs of collapse. It could be side effects of the economic effects of Covid. A couple of Trump presidential terms. And numerous wars around the world. Along with repeated supply side shocks to the global economic system.
Or it could be the side effects of a global pandemic, of an all body disease, that attacks the vascular and nervous system among other things, that's airborne and spread by the respiratory system, with no sterilising vaccine, that infects people repeatedly, causes long term harm in a significant number of people. With the chances of that long term harm increasing with each new infection. And where most countries have simply given up trying to control or track it in any way at all.
Or both.
Your choice.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
Update: twelve hospital workers in the Netherlands were put in quarantine after using the wrong procedure while handling a Hondius patient. Radboudumc in Nijmegen said staff used standard blood draw protocol instead of the stricter one required for this virus. Also did not follow international guidelines for the patient urine. Six week quarantine even though the hospital says risk is low.
Total confirmed and probable cases now at 11 with 3 deaths. WHO says risk to wider public remains low and this is "not another COVID." The Nebraska quarantine facility has 16 people. 2 more at a hospital in Atlanta.
Ok_Oil_201@reddit
Let's see if there is some random case in Joburg in a few weeks, then we know shits going to hit the fan. Nobody with these short dopamine cycles is willing to quarantine for weeks on end.
INtuitiveTJop@reddit
I had to check if I was on the South African sub for a second there
trickortreat89@reddit
I don’t think the hantavirus is strong enough to turn into a pandemic, but just out of pure observation on how this whole thing is being handled, it doesn’t seem promising for the next actual pandemic. And that one WILL come for sure, it’s just a matter of time. And while living in a world that is now so obviously going backwards… hallelujah
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
thats the whole point of posting this. the case count is small and the fatality rate makes scaling unlikely. but the response infrastructure is the tell. 23 countries, no unified protocol, CDC and a state governor publicly disagreeing, a symptomatic passenger on a repatriation flight. swap this for something with a 14 day incubation and airborne transmission and we already know how the first 6 weeks go.
sg92i@reddit
The nightmare scenario is if the virus becomes endemic in our domestic rodent species, say in a city like NYC or Baltimore that will never be able to get its rodent populations in check.
Brigid_Fitch2112@reddit
I just got an answer from a virologist and he says there is zero chance for this to make it into local rodents. He said that it doesn't survive the GI tract in humans.
RunYouFoulBeast@reddit
Oh boy... now that is fun... Rodent run free everywhere.
sherilaugh@reddit
I'm more interested when it is transmissible. Is it before symptoms? While symptomatic? What's the R value? As a nurse I think it's absolutely fucked that they are just trusting people to isolate though. We all know how that went with COVID.
Connect_Raisin_1771@reddit
I’m going to be the contrarian here and disagree. I think this appears to me to be a pretty good example of global health systems tracking and responding to a complex outbreak. There’s learnings from everyone but the fact that we have traced this across several countries and people are glued to their phones for daily updates is testament to what modern communications have enabled public health systems to coordinate internationally.
I’m less optimistic and more doomer about the medias role in feeding misinformation due to sloppy reporting and rushing for headlines. That seems to objectively have gotten even worse since COVID-19.
beennoddin313@reddit
All of this AFTER Covid happened. They literally didn’t learn anything. Best thing you can do is stock up on N95’s and continue to be informed
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
thats the part that gets me. every country had 3 years of COVID coordination data and the first real test after it is 23 countries doing 23 different things with the same passengers from the same ship. the playbook existed. nobody opened it.
Masterventure@reddit
Absolutely agree. I already see people everywhere saying they will refuse the hantavirus vaccine.
I still think bird flu is going to be the most likely candidate to be the next big one and when it hits we will be fucked.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
"I already see people everywhere saying they will refuse the hantavirus vaccine."
Lucky for them, then, that a hantavirus vaccine doesn't exist.
fart-atronach@reddit
There wasn’t a covid-19 vax either until there was
PortobelloSteaks@reddit
Moderna has been working on one with Korea University for a few years.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
We all know that any hantavirus vaccine will definitely NOT be made with any cooperation from any American company. The Europeans will have to develop it. I assume USians will be last in line to receive it.
Connect_Raisin_1771@reddit
I mean I think you’re right but I’d caution on a bit of the doomerism with bird flu. Mainly, the CFR because there’s a lot of stats about the supposed CFR with bird flu but if we did have a human to human bird flu pandemic it’s unlikely to be that 40% CFR or whatever it is unless we have a total collapse of health systems.
But yeah, 1 pandemic per decade seems a pretty reasonable expectation in the modern world and bird flu is the most likely.
Plane-Breakfast-8817@reddit
I've been worried about bird flu for a couple of years.
Ching-Dai@reddit
Totally agree with your comments. I’m in my late 40’s and my entire perspective on humanity changed after Covid.
Hell, if nothing else, a pandemic coupled with an uprising seems like an opportunity for martial law excuses.
TheBroWhoLifts@reddit
I was ambivalent towards humanity generally before the pandemic. Now? I'm outwardly, actively hostile. Fuck humanity. Fuck this shit.
RandomBoomer@reddit
The more I learn about pre-history and the massacres of one group of people as some other group took over their territory, the more I realize that we've pretty much always been assholes.
Ching-Dai@reddit
It really pained me to realize that humanity feels like the only component of this world that doesn’t make sense or work with the rest.
I was a teen in the early 90’s and truly believed we were on the cusp of rounding some magical corner for our civilization. Always had a bit of a hippy mentality, lots of optimism.
Technology….social awareness…a supposed realization about pollution. The wall falling in Germany. The supposed end of the Cold War. But no.
And then later, Obama’s election gave me another big window of hope. Not too many of those moments since.
Now it’s just jaded takes on our corporate overlord ‘future’ while the planet burns around us, until they’re no resources or true humanity left. So yea, I’m a real hoot at parties these days.
TheBroWhoLifts@reddit
Welp then you're me, because your comment made me feel fucking seen. I was also a naively optimistic Star Trek-inspired teen in the 90s and was certain that was our trajectory. Then I forgot about what happens every 80 years and now the fucking nazis are back except they have AI robots, social media and cable propaganda machines, and a lead-poisoned base of willing idiots who should know better to sop it all up, and their uneducated dipshit kids too. Ugh fuck this place!
glasshomonculous@reddit
When I was in primary school in the UK, mid to late 90s, i remember doing 2 big projects, the whole school year joined in.
One was about acid rain, what caused it and how we (humans) were stopping it.
The other was about Red Kites and how they were fast becoming endangered, again with plans to change this.
A few years later, acid rain had all but disappeared from the news and Red Kites are 10 a penny.
This is why i thought that when humanity was faced with a crisis we would band together and solve it.
I don’t remember anything past acid rain and red kites being taken seriously or dealt with large scale since then :(
cd7k@reddit
Ozone layer too.
glasshomonculous@reddit
Oh dip yes forgot about this one! Don’t think I did a project on it but I remember the hole in the ozone layer being a big deal
Successful_Manager74@reddit
Well, I would definitely want to hang out with you at any party. I believe we would have much we agree upon!
AggravatingCricket61@reddit
Also in late 40s, and you are correct. Its been changing for some time, slowly, then all of a sudden quickly post 2020.
Can't put to terms what it feels like, but a disconnection from a baser, older part of ourselves. Almost like a vital organ was taken
jt32470@reddit
it is almost like a pandemic is being encouraged, welcomed.
add food shortages due to the hormuz fuckup.
goodgodling@reddit
It's rent seeking and shock doctrine capitalism.
No_Foundation16@reddit
Add a Super El Nino to the pile as well.
What Is a Super El Niño? 100% Chance of Record Event in 2026 – What It Means for Your State
jt32470@reddit
We're all fucked, aren't we?
Jovan_Knight005@reddit
We are. The least we can do is to minimize consequences of the coming collapse on our families if possible.
Vaxthrul@reddit
Form local communities to help deal with all the issues that will arise. Food growing and animal husbandry, jerry rigging vehicles and other motorized items, learn to use what's available to field dress wounds and injuries, or to help overcome illness.
These are just the things that jumped out to me, there is a niche for everyone! Working together will help ease the future for all of us.
No_Foundation16@reddit
It's not looking good. I've been waiting for hell to arrive since the 2024 election. We already have had citizens shot down and murdered in the streets like dogs with no consequences to the state sponsored killers.
I mean after that nothing good will ever come to the US again to put it mildly until regime change if that's ever possible again. Midterms will be our last chance I think.
GrymWeeper@reddit
Very bold of you to still think mid-terms will happen. Current office will more than likely escalate this virus situation to can the mid-terms to stay in
No_Foundation16@reddit
It's more like a wish and a prayer now. Not something guaranteed to happen at this point in the GOP Congress/SCOTUS/White House dictatorship.
rekabis@reddit
And this is how № 47 and his GoP (Guardians of Pedophiles) sycophants will engineer a permanent Republican ascendancy via dictatorship.
mooky1977@reddit
It has been...
HandOfMaradonny@reddit
I don't get it. This just says everywhere in the US will have slightly cooler summers and less hurricanes.
Will it negatively impact other parts of the world?
fart-atronach@reddit
Here’s some parts you missed:
LRobin11@reddit
If not manufactured.
BeardedGlass@reddit
My country got ruined and was exploited by the administration of that time during the pandemic. The increased power that ballooned at the executive level dismantled so many systems, and placed corrupt politicians up top.
fart-atronach@reddit
So much money in the US was funneled to the wealthy through forgiven fraudulent PPP loans.
jt32470@reddit
Great point.
03263@reddit
Let's do cordyceps next like in the last of us
marshalmcz@reddit
Thats prety much my strain of tough too -- preparing for lockdowns 2.0 to cower food and gass shortages. Then start full war with rusia in 2030 , teling the comon folks they have the resources you need to return to normal - go get them.
loralailoralai@reddit
Of course you think it alllllllll revolves around you. FYI some places in the world already have ‘gas’ prices like that
gnostic_savage@reddit
I'm in my mid 70s, and my entire perspective on humanity changed because of Covid. I'm not a cynic, I'm certain there are good people in the world. I am now a misanthrope, because I'm also certain there aren't that many.
Successful_Manager74@reddit
I’m in my early 70’s and same here. So shocking that so many refused to listen to scientific facts and protect themselves and others. And then - the 2024 election! I’m still working on getting my feet back under me and even begin to wrap my mind around it.
gnostic_savage@reddit
I live in a deep red county in a red state. My region voted for Trump at 77%. Another percentage voted for third party candidates every bit as dumb and evil, if less capable at both. I cannot go to the grocery store without feeling like I'm surrounded by good Germans.
mariahmce@reddit
On the plus side, so know what percentage of the population are absolute idiots now. About 35%. While that’s a lot, it’s good to know it’s not a majority.
gnostic_savage@reddit
I think we must give credit to the people who didn't bother to vote so as to prevent this. That was more people than voted for either candidate.
LifeClassic2286@reddit
Mid 40s and same here. It shattered my faith in humanity.
gnostic_savage@reddit
I don't know if it makes you feel better or worse, but if you are an American we had the 14th highest rate of death in the world out of 195 countries plus some city states.
I may have misspoke. "Humanity" might not be as big a problem as "Americans" were when it came to Covid.
Jovan_Knight005@reddit
Not to mention the potential for more wars to start on many continents would increase as a result of said martial laws.
HyperbenCharities@reddit
Trump + Covid + Gaza = Zero faith/trust in humans or humanity.
Species come and go, ceaselessly. The permanent impermanence of Mother Nature is the one true God.
yogo8629@reddit
covid did that to a lot of people. and the martial law thing doesn't even need a conspiracy — just enough chaos until people start asking someone to make it stop. that's always how it goes.
pm_social_cues@reddit
Most people said that from October 2019 to about march 2020.
Burial@reddit
I think the thing that people are really underestimating in terms of the danger is the 6 weeks incubation period. Anyone who has played one of those pandemic games knows this is one of the worst qualities a virus can have in terms of its ability to spread across the world.
yogo8629@reddit
exactly. this isn't the one. but it's a dress rehearsal and we're failing it. CDC and a state governor can't agree on quarantine before the plane lands. that's the preview.
jt32470@reddit
I hope RFK personally welcomes them , shakes their hand, and maybe has a nice sit-down dinner with them.
I mean he's an alpha-male who swims in sewer water.
ianishomer@reddit
RFK more quack than a shed load of ducks
PrairieFire_withwind@reddit
Tell me you are british without telling me?
ianishomer@reddit
Guilty
PrairieFire_withwind@reddit
I only know because we have been watching taskmaster, hilarious and much needed entertainment break from the grind of reality, and they use shed dufferently than us usians.
ianishomer@reddit
Shed load is used on TV a lot before the watershed, as in the time after which you can swear, works instead of shit load so well!
Taskmaster is fabulous entertainment glad you are a fan.
If you like that, and you haven't seen it, look at Would I Lie to You, especially with Bob Mortimer on it, as well as 8 out of 10 cats Does Countdown.
They are very mainstream programs, but thought I would mention it seeing as you may have missed them.
PrairieFire_withwind@reddit
Fascinating turn of phrase versus time of day usage. thanks for sharing and i will look at the other two.
Somedays just anything for a laugh is good. Keep the spirits up, yanno
ianishomer@reddit
If you haven't seen Bob Mortimer on WILTY you are in for a treat, as well as Sean Lock on 8 out of 10 cats, don't miss the carrot in a box episodes.
Enjoy, keep smiling when you can.
Let me know what you think once you have watched them.
PrairieFire_withwind@reddit
My partner showed me the whelk eating on 8 outta 10. I couldn't, just couldn't. but i will try to get to the mortimer episodes
LRobin11@reddit
It depends on how transmissable it is. It's not supposed to be highly transmissable. The strain in question is the only strain that's transmissable from human to human, but still is only transmissable if you come into direct contact with bodily fluids. At least up to this point.
The concern is that it may have mutated to be airborne. Considering one of the people infected is a flight attendant whose only contact with an infected person was escorting them off of a plane, that's a very real and serious concern.
Covid was so dangerous because it was highly transmissable and had a long incubation period. Covid's incubation period was about 10 days, and it's peak mortality rate was about 7%. Hantavirus has an incubation period of 8 weeks and a mortality rate of 35-40%, with a historic peak mortality rate of 80%. If this shit has become airborne, it will be devastating!
luminousrose9@reddit
The flight attendant tested negative for hantavirus
LRobin11@reddit
I didn't realize that. Good to know! That's quite a coincidence, but makes the whole situation a bit less concerning. That news was the first time my eyebrow truly raised, bc that amount and duration of contact just shouldn't have led to infection with this virus.
luminousrose9@reddit
Just conjecture here. But wouldn't be surprised if some of the symptomatic have Covid. That's what happened when they tested dairy workers for H5N1.
BeardedGlass@reddit
I can't imagine all those infected passengers on the cruise ship were lovers in a huge single polyamorous relationship together.
They probably just were in a room sitting down and talking. Not even as a single group but several. And yet it spread to more than a dozen individuals just by them being there.
The issue is that we don't know enough, especially the infectious stage. CDC said one could be infectious BEFORE symptoms happen.
And what are the vague symptoms? Body ache and mild fever. Not even a flu that would make you think of going to a doctor. Just a cold that anyone would not even give a second thought.
LRobin11@reddit
You're correct and I understand your fear. It's not necessarily unwarranted. It doesn't help anything or anyone to react to a worst case scenario before we really know what's happening, but I get that it's not that easy to hold onto that logic.
Maybe it's not airborne? Maybe one or all of those people doesn't wash their hands and the others shook hands or touched surfaces they touched, and then didn't wash their own hands? All we can do right now is watch it and hope the worst case scenario doesn't come to pass. Right now, it's only a hypothetical.
BeardedGlass@reddit
Murphy's Law be damned, I don't think I can handle more apocalyptic scenarios happening right on top of one another in just this single year alone.
Thank goodness it's not airborne, but it does seem to have aerosol behavior.
I heard that in the 2018 Epuyén outbreak, a person was infected by simply crossing paths with the "patient zero" on the way to the restroom.
LRobin11@reddit
That's not what I said. What I said is we don't know yet, and it may not be.
Unfortunately, we're living in a time where heavy, scary, potentially apocalyptic shit is probably going to keep happening. Climate change alone is going to cause a lot of scary stuff. Including, potentially, more pandemics. It is what it is. We can only deal with what presents itself to the best of our ability and strap in for the ride.
Cold_Combination2107@reddit
it just spreads from rat to rat, rat to human, human to human, and human to rat, its fine!
aldoraine000@reddit
I am legit not worried about hantavirus. It’s was a known thing in New Mexico back in the 80/90s. The key to not getting hantavirus is to not be hanging out with rodents and being clean. If you do have a rodent problem, get it taken care of.
smackson@reddit
I agree this one is too early to be a doomer over.
But come on, the most basic reading of "what is Hantavirus" will tell you that the New Mexico version has never been seen to pass human to human but the "Andes" strain has, and that's 100% confirmed the one that killed three on the ship.
aldoraine000@reddit
Agreed that it’s too early to doom out on and I understood about the human to human transmission. But one thing we all got a lesson on during Covid was the reproduction number (R0). Measles is like 12-18 while Covid, depending on strain, was anywhere from 3-18. The Andes hantavirus strain is less than 1. Granted it’s much more lethal but it’s just a poorly transmissible virus.
LRobin11@reddit
Most strains of hantavirus are only caught by contact with animal feces or bodily fluids. All except this strain, which can be spread from human to human.
SolidAssignment@reddit
This is clearly not the same strain that you are talking about.
Away-Slide7889@reddit
This is an airborne human-to-human transmission variant of hantavirus common in the Andes of South America.
Brullaapje@reddit
I heard Covid was basically a test run, the one that is coming worse.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
Very few people have immunity against smallpox, which has a relatively high mortality rate. When endemic, mortality was about 8-10%, primarily children because the adults had already been infected as children and had lifelong immunity), but when pandemic (Iceland, 1708-1709), mortality was well over 25% and it infected adults and children.
https://bshm.org.uk/how-deadly-was-smallpox-rethinking-a-familiar-statistic/
dovercliff@reddit
Two things to note.
The first is that the 8-10% mortality rate is an average of the two viruses - variola major and variola minor - that cause smallpox. Variola minor has a 1% fatality rate, but variola major has a 30% fatality rate (depending on the form the disease takes; v. major can cause "early haemorrhagic smallpox", which is always fatal and prefers to affect pregnant women). Catching v. minor conferred immunity against major, but v. major was always the more common one, and was never, ever, crowded out by v. minor. So that's fun.
The second is that the same vaccination for mpox protects against smallpox, and a hell of a lot of people got that one during the mpox outbreak. Nowhere near enough to contain an outbreak given how contagious smallpox is, but it's not going to explode into a completely vulnerable population, and they were able to ramp up production for that very fast and distribute it widely.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
Thanks for the correction on mortality rate - I obviously somehow managed to forget Variola minor - and for the info on the Mpox vaccine.
sg92i@reddit
Adults never exposed in children would probably get decimated like the native Americans experienced after white-contact.
Meanwhile the vaccine is contraindicated for atopic triades. So 31M of the US population right out the gate can't be vaccinated for smallpox.
Malcolm_Morin@reddit
Depends on how many people it was exposed to. If enough people catch it for it to realize its flaws, it could easily mutate to spread more widely.
And with a 40% mortality rate, even if it drops to 30%, that's still catastrophic if it's able to reach COVID levels of spreadability.
horseradix@reddit
I feel like, the way things are going, it's not gonna be so much destruction due to novel pandemics (though there will be and it will not be handled well) as its gonna be resurgence of formerly eradicated and treatable disease. Tetanus, measles, contagious meningitis, etc because of inability to get healthcare on one hand and spread of anti-intellectual and antisocial behavior (antivaxers) on the other, plus more food related illness due to the FDA and other regulatory bodies unraveling
Basically, we're speedrunning recreating the kind of conditions described in The Jungle...
BirthdayBoth304@reddit
And that's before the permafrost melts and releases a load of prehistoric nasties we have no immunity against
Killzone3265@reddit
yeah. nothing was learned by masses. a handful of people per country and it's a serious debate to keep them indoors for a few weeks, after covid.
while i too don't think this is going to be one, when bird flu finally snaps, we're doomed
devinbookersuncle@reddit
Yeah it doesnt have a long enough incubation period from what ive read and heard to be a major issue in and of itself.
The bigger problem is the fear it will cause and the cdc contradicting the state on this matter which shows a divide that we really cant afford to have right now.
NorthernPassion2378@reddit
I've read the incubation of hantavirus period ranges from 1 to 8 weeks, and I recall the coronavirus being at maximum 2 weeks long, for comparison.
Even if hantavirus doesn't transmit as easily, it still has a long window to spread, even if it is constrained by the high mortality rate.
keynoko@reddit
Incorrect. It has a rather long incubation period of 1-8 weeks with the majority showing symptoms around 2-3
HERMANNATOR85@reddit
This virus doesn’t spread person to person
amanda2399923@reddit
Keep up
HERMANNATOR85@reddit
The Andes strain can “rarely” travel between humans
HERMANNATOR85@reddit
I listened to an infectious disease doctor Thursday
MRP556@reddit
Only transmissible from rat to human. Not from human to human. You could literally put them intense and it’s not an issue. Get on with your life.
amanda2399923@reddit
Keep up. You're wrong. Andes strain H-H
BadgerKomodo@reddit
Ah shit, here we go again.
Brigid_Fitch2112@reddit
No, we don't.
Masterventure@reddit
This type of hantavirus infects humans in South America all the time. This is nothing new. The only reason this one spread to a handful of people, was because of the close quarters nature of cruise ships.
Over the coming weeks a few people from that ship likely will get sick with hantavirus and that will be it.
It’s not even close to as transmittable as Covid.
Set a timer to 3 months from now. Guarantee this will not escalate.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
youre right that Andes virus cases happen in South America regularly. whats new is 147 passengers from a single exposure being put on 10 international flights to 23 countries simultaneously with no agreed quarantine standard. the virus isnt new. the dispersal mechanism is.
Masterventure@reddit
It just does not spread as crazy aggressive as COViD did.
A few of the passengers will get sick over the next months, but it won’t spread like crazy, because to the best of our knowledge it can’t.
No expert on the subject thinks there’s a serious risk here.
Hantavirus infections don’t cause epidemics let alone pandemics.
AlexAuditore@reddit
Neither did covid in the beginning. It wasn't until it started mutating and became airborne that it became a much bigger issue.
Covid was spread by respiratory droplets in the beginning. That's also how the Andes strain of hantavirus is spread. Even if this doesn't become a global pandemic, I think we will at least see localized outbreaks in at least some of the countries the cruise ship passengers went home to.
Brigid_Fitch2112@reddit
This is an old virus, and the R naught is 2.1. It will not become a pandemic. It mutates slowly. If you will remember, Covid was caused by a novel coronavirus. There is nothing novel about this. Calm down.
Masterventure@reddit
Nope COViD was always highly transmissible. That was literally the first thing we knew about it.
Also. Airborne and droplet transmission are the same thing, the fact you think, it was first droplets then airborne tells me you didn’t pay attention then because you still don’t know how it works today.
Capital-Composer3549@reddit
You’re 100% correct, there isn’t even conclusive evidence that it can spread human to human. Every potential case could’ve also been caused by exposure to infected rats.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9574657/
Masterventure@reddit
People get the same virus from sweeping animal barns with infected rat shit.
The people who got the first infections went to a trash heap in south America to photograph birds, that’s almost certainly where they picked it up.
They infected a few other people because of the cruise ship conditions, but aside from a cruise ship or an airplane environment the hantavirus really has low chances to spread between people.
keynoko@reddit
3 deaths out of 147 is not good odds. Two percent?
Flu is 1.8 deaths out of 100,000 for comparison.
Masterventure@reddit
Not everybody got it. Hantavirus is much more deadly than COVID no doubt. But like MERS from a while an ago it just isn’t as transmittable.
It’s not going to spread like crazy, like COViD did.
keynoko@reddit
Isn't that what they thought about coronavirus until it started spreading like crazy
Masterventure@reddit
No it isn’t.
The very first moment COViD was noticed the scientists were amazed at how fast it spread.
This is more like money pox, MERS or Ebola, deadly, but not as transmissible.
AlexAuditore@reddit
I distinctly remember them telling people in the early days of covid, that if they've never been to China, they had nothing to worry about.
Masterventure@reddit
Nobody with any credibility ever said that. I’m not from the US. I know US media and government policy media on the topic is trash. So I suspect what you remember were the same disinformation sources that claims hantavirus could cause a serious epidemic now.
There never were any sudden surprises in the COViD development for me as I only trust high quality sources.
keynoko@reddit
Maybe some scientists did but the public messaging early on was that it was no worse than the flu, that it was being monitored, and not to be worried.
Scientists to be sure had to change their messaging multiple times. Initially they didn't even think it was airborne, remember?
Masterventure@reddit
Technically COViD isn’t and never has been super deadly, what made COVID so deadly was how aggressive it spread.
When everybody gets it even a low fatality rate produces large casualty numbers.
Scientists communicated pretty well, the problem is that the media didn’t and especially the trump administration explicitly lied about the situation, celebrities like Musk lied too. The actual scientists communicated pretty decently throughout.
GurSmall4206@reddit
It is 3 out of the 8 so far, so 37%
keynoko@reddit
Whoa that's right. Way worse
mycatisawhore@reddit
It may not be as transmissible as Covid, but This CNN article says there was an outbreak where a man infected five people at a birthday party. And no, it is not something that happens "all the time" in South America.
Masterventure@reddit
It does happen regularly enough that we understand the COViD potential and CNN is trash news.
cosmicosmo4@reddit
!remindme 3 months
Masterventure@reddit
It’s a bet I take any day, because the facts are very clear.
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rightintheear@reddit
remindme! 3 months
totalwarwiser@reddit
Unless it has somehow mutated
Commercial-Buddy2469@reddit
I agree, except I say that it will very likely not escalate, no guarantee. Hopefully, the Andes Virus does not infect the rodent populations of other countries.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
update for people following this: Moderna stock jumped 7.5% today because they were apparently already developing a hantavirus vaccine before this outbreak even started. one of the American passengers at the Nebraska facility tested mildly positive. a French passenger was symptomatic on the repatriation flight so France put all five of its returning passengers in strict isolation. WHO says this isnt another COVID but the coordination test is playing out exactly how youd expect.
Brigid_Fitch2112@reddit
Mildly positive. What does that even mean? One is either positive, or not.
jbond23@reddit
There is no "mildly positive" with a 40% cfr.
icklefluffybunny42@reddit
Think about the poop.
If/when any of these people become symptomatic they will be infectious, and their poop will likely contain live virus too.
Unless they are in some sort of specialised quarantine facility with wastewater treatment and sterilisation on site then their waste will go into the standard sewerage system. Rats and mice will be there and if they get infected then they will poop too and spread it to their little rat and mice friends.
Will this then cause the Andes species of hantavirus, ANDV, to become established in rodent colonies in countries across the world? I guess it might depend on the local species of rats and mice and if they are different to the ones in Argentina and Chile, and if they are comparably susceptible.
If ANDV does become embedded in new animal reservoirs across the world then there will be far more zoonotic jumps back to humans from now on. This could mean sporadic outbreaks of ANDV in humans from now on all over the world. How likely this is I don't know but it seems quite a potential risk to me.
I don't want to think, or talk about poop, but someone probably should before we potentially end up in a world with never ending wac-a-mole human to human hantavirus outbreaks, for ever.
Brigid_Fitch2112@reddit
I'm attending an office hours with a virologist this evening. I'll ask him about this. If he doesn't know, he'll field it to an epidemiologist or an MD who specializes in Tropical Medicine and get an answer. It's a great question, and one I'd not thought about.
NoHuckleberry2543@reddit
Oh I had not thought of this. Right, it is zoonotic. Well shit balls. And here I still had my money on avian flu making the jump.
researching-cat@reddit
I don't know about the poop, but I was thinking, since the virus affects the respiratory tract... Let's picture someone positive who's isolating at home and cleans their nose with tissue paper, then throws it in their regular trash can. Trash is taken and thrown in a regular landfill where rodents can roam and may have contact with the infected fluids in the paper. If the virus can stay alive in the environment in such situation (no idea how likely is that), I wonder if it could increase the risk of a spillover? Also, I don't know how likely the virus would be able to jump to a new host, as far as I know, hantavirus a kinda picky.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
the wastewater angle is real. multiple cities already have hantavirus wastewater surveillance programs from COVID-era infrastructure. if any of these passengers are shedding virus, their local sewage systems would be the first early warning. the question is whether anyone is actually running those tests for Andes virus specifically.
LRobin11@reddit
The fact of the matter is we currently have the worst administration in American history to handle this problem, so if it truly becomes a problem, we're fucked. And pretty much everyone capable of developing an effective vaccine has been fired, so...
RunYouFoulBeast@reddit
Yeah two time in a row same president. .. talk about shitty luck or god anointed guardian
AlertEngineer5991@reddit
UT austin filed a patent ironically last year for one 😡
LRobin11@reddit
Of course they did. I'm so shocked.
Littlehouseonthesub@reddit
Didn’t the US end some wastewater testing? Or am I mis- remembering? Maybe they just ended the data sharing
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
youre not misremembering. the Trump admin cut CDC wastewater surveillance funding earlier this year. some cities and states kept their own programs running independently but the federal coordination layer is gone. so the infrastructure exists in patches but nobody is running a unified national scan for Andes virus specifically. its exactly the kind of gap this situation exposes.
Littlehouseonthesub@reddit
Omg that’s pretty bad. I hope this is the motivation to coordinate everything. But idk if this administration will even bother
superfly355@reddit
There's no virus if you don't test! Big brain move right there. I hate this timeline
saywhatevrdiewhenevr@reddit
Not even just wastewater, if it's contagious fecal/oral before someone becomes symptomatic, public restrooms are going to be an instant breeding ground. Most all public toilets in the US don't even have lids (and flush very violently) so they create a literal "particle poop plume" with every flush that would risk infecting anyone else in the bathroom if someone who was unknowingly ill took a dump (a lot of norovirus spreads this way every year as well). So even before it got to the rats it could be infecting people
BeardedGlass@reddit
I suddenly remembered.
Whenever we smell something, it means literal physical particles of that stuff has entered our nostrils.
If you've smelled someone's fart, that means there are particles from their anus that are in your nose.
mrblahblahblah@reddit
that makes everything I've experienced so much hotter
jan_Kila@reddit
Only applies to some smells. Some smells are gases not particulates. Wearing an N95, as I always do in public, you'll learn this firsthand, because particulate based smells will be completely filtered but gaseous ones will not.
Odd-Box816@reddit
Wish I hadn’t read that…
Escudo777@reddit
I am afraid of a scenario in which infected rats entering ships when they are anchored at ports. This can accelerate the spread.
TalkingCat910@reddit
The strain of Hantavirus on the boat was from Argentina which is the one strain that can be passed person to person through droplets/coughing etc.
humanspeech@reddit
I think people forget that the reason why Sars-Cov-2 became a pandemic while Sars-Cov-1 was endemic is due to the death rate of each disease. People were able to contain Sars-Cov-1 and let it burn itself out due to the shorter incubation level alongside the worse symptoms. It has a much higher rate of death than Sars-Cov-2.
Frosti11icus@reddit
We’d need to confirm that hantavirus is live in poop. It’s an endothelial virus, it should get pretty chopped up by your digestive tract, it might not be able to survive the harsh conditions.
BeardedGlass@reddit
Live ANDV was confirmed in urine samples in 42% of acute-phase cases. So yes, infectious virus is absolutely going down drains.
Fortunately, standard sewage treatment with chlorination can handle most virus before it reaches rodents.
But yeah, the bigger risk is countries with poor wastewater infrastructure.
sg92i@reddit
That's once it reaches the treatment plant. Most large cities have rodents living in the sewer systems below street level.
smackson@reddit
I had not thought of this!
What I did hear, from "This Week in Virology", is that hantavirus is studied in the lab using ... hamsters.
Total layperson take, here, but if it can reproduce in wild mice and also in hamsters, then it's not a bad bet that it's ready to go in NYC rats, and Paris ones, and Bombay ones, etc. etc.
blackmox-photophob@reddit
Maybe you don't want to think or talk about it, but you do it very well, Sir
icklefluffybunny42@reddit
Thanks. I was tempted to try to mix in some really shitty puns just for shits and giggles, but my comment may have ended up as verbal diarrhoea.
ThatGuy48039@reddit
You mean we took the idiot in charge of the last pandemic, thought he might have learned something from his experience, put him in charge of the next pandemic, and it turns out he is still an idiot?
I am shocked. Shocked, I say.
AlexAuditore@reddit
It annoys me how much misinformation is out there about this virus, even on CNN. I heard a doctor on CNN earlier, saying that the virus can't be spread before symptoms appear, but according to the European Centers for Disease Control, it can. (I'll take the word of a team of scientists and researchers who have been researching this virus for years, over one American doctor who has never encountered it and knows nothing about it because it doesn't exist in the US).
"People can spread the virus before they start showing symptoms, and it can take up to two to eight weeks for symptoms to appear. This can make it challenging to control the outbreak."
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/infectious-disease-topics/hantavirus-infection/surveillance-and-updates/questions-answers-outbreak#what-does-ecdc-recommend-for-passengers-without-symptoms?
Experts are also saying it doesn't spread like covid. Covid doesn't spread like covid. In the beginning, it was spread through respiratory droplets, and now it's airborne. Hantavirus is spread through respiratory droplets.
"People can contract the hantavirus infection through inhalation of respirable droplets..."
https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/diseases/hantavir.html
They're basically relying on people qurantining properly for this to not spread, but we know from covid that people aren't going to quarantine properly. Most people also don't wash their hands properly.
EdibleScissors@reddit
I think what you wrote could be expressed more clearly: Covid has always airborne. The World Health Organization promulgated the droplet spread idea because the WHO has been captured by corporate interests that wanted to minimize the appearance of the risk of contagion.
The idea that we have a definitive idea about how contagious ANDV is based on a successful containment in Argentina is absurd. No one should be allowed to say it’s probably not that contagious and ignore the fact that toxic individualists in the west would have had a riot if they were to be subjected to the quarantine protocols undertaken there. We have thrown out the precautionary principle because people hate being cooped up with their children and love being served by an underclass in bars and restaurants.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
the misinformation cuts both directions. youve got CNN doctors saying its not contagious when this is the one strain that IS human-to-human. and on the other side youve got people calling it the next COVID when the transmissibility doesnt support that. the actual ECDC and WHO documents are the only reliable sources right now and most people arent reading those.
Aazzle@reddit
This is all really a bad joke, especially since the French patient already showed symptoms on the return flight, but only 5 were isolated after that and the 20 other passengers were still transported from Eindhoven through half of Europe in various ways.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
the Tenerife demonstrators honestly had a point. keeping everyone on the ship until incubation cleared was the simplest containment option and nobody wanted to pay for it. instead a symptomatic passenger flew commercial, only 5 out of 20+ got isolated at Eindhoven, and the rest scattered through European transit hubs. each country improvising their own protocol in real time.
RunYouFoulBeast@reddit
It's too expensive to quarantine them! But yeah totally wreck economy and people lives is a good price to pay.
OptimusPrimeval@reddit
Is it too expensive to quarantine them? Or is it just that they're rich, and a such, cannot tolerate inconvenience?
McSplooger@reddit
It is imperative that the green line remains unharmed (not go down)
Lapidariest@reddit
It's harder to start a pandemic to reduce populations, if you keep everyone isolated at the source. Much better to pass them around.
madcoins@reddit
Yes, Won’t someone think of big pharma? No pandemic = no business and we all know how important “business” is. Hint it’s more that the natural world including humans
Luzma_chan@reddit
Yup. We knew. We kept telling them. Our president (of the Canary Islands) kept telling them no. But they forced it on us anyway. Spain literally fucked us 😭
Aazzle@reddit
Spain, with its left-wing minority government, is also fucking the entire EU by legalizing hundreds of thousands more migrants directly naturalizing them, who are then of course also allowed to pass through any internal border, simply migrate to the social systems of the other states and are thus permanently subject to every EU law.
Luzma_chan@reddit
You tell me. Where do you think all the refugees get sent to?
Aazzle@reddit
Of course, most of them will come to us to Germany, since we have just been decided by EU court that the actual entitlements for social benefits of social assistance are a disadvantage and, accordingly, everyone is now allowed to receive full minimum unemployment insurance benefits regardless of whether they have paid in, even indefinitely, since they must not get less if they never had the chance to pay in and it would be discrimination accordingly.
The lower benefits of social assistance are therefore only permitted for local citizens who are born here, while every migrant is permanently entitled to the much higher benefits of unemployment insurance, regardless of whether they have ever paid or will pay.
At the same time, our social system is collapsing completely and we have to cut benefits for those born and pensioners here, and even their sick and long-term care insurance, because of course every migrant of retirement age also receives full minimum pension entitlements while the most part of the poorer pensioners only receice social benefits and the system has been emptying accordingly for years, while we suddenly retire now instead of 64 in 70 and the whole entitlement we paid in is reduced accordingly.
Jovan_Knight005@reddit
It means that the protocols that exist in those cases are either non-existent or are contradictory.
Goofygrrrl@reddit
ER doc here. I’m not acutely worried about this hantavirus outbreak. Yes it spreads human to human, but transmission is typically occurring when the person is symptomatic. And the people from the cruise ship will be monitoring themselves for symptoms. I was much more concerned when there was a possibility of the flight attendant being infected, because that implied that casual contact could spread it.
What I am worried about is the human transmissible strain becoming the dominant strain in the US rodent population. Then there being multiple outbreaks throughout the US while the CDC is essential crippled as it settles in the US. I don’t think there will be hot outbreaks, where it takes out a lot of people at a short time and burns itself out. Instead i think it could be a silent killer of the elderly with occasional severe outbreaks in the nursing homes and during times of natural disaster.
Now there are already hantavirus vaccine candidates in the research pipeline. But given Americans anti science and anti vaccine sentiment, this may become like measles where intelligent people get the vaccine and certain communities just accept the deaths. We will see.
I will say that those of us in the medical community are already deciding independently whether we will stay bedside during these outbreaks or whether we will step aside and let nature do what it does.
2quickdraw@reddit
We honestly really need something that culls the stupid. Stupidity is a force for chaos and destruction and is currently destroying the entire world.
sherilaugh@reddit
As a nurse, I decided after COVID that I'm tapping out the next pandemic. Not doing that again. Too many deniers making shit harder than it needs to be.
jenni5@reddit
Do we know the transmission type? It seems like it’s not airborne like Covid but more fluid? It would reduce the R factor significantly and so I don’t think we are as worried about it spreading in general right
luminousrose9@reddit
It can be airborne, but seems to take a lot of exposure.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
appreciate the clinical perspective. the symptomatic-phase transmission point is key and something a lot of people in this thread are missing. my concern isnt the virus scaling. its the coordination gap the response is exposing. 23 different quarantine protocols for the same exposure event, CDC and a state governor publicly disagreeing, a symptomatic passenger on a repatriation flight. your clinical confidence is reassuring. the institutional response is less so.
Goofygrrrl@reddit
God damn it. There’s another one
https://www.france24.com/en/health/20260511-french-evacuee-from-hantavirus-hit-ship-tests-positive-health-minister-says
Goofygrrrl@reddit
Well this has me a bit more concerned than I was earlier. And WTF is “mildly positive”. What kinda bullshit is that.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/one-us-citizen-tests-mildly-positive-hantavirus-another-has-mild-symptoms-2026-05-11/
Wolf_Oak@reddit
I'd like to know how much contact the American had with the others after the outbreak started. And compare it to the French passenger.
PrimalSaturn@reddit
I also think the media and news outlets are dramatising and fear mongering the whole thing.
They really are that desperate for clicks and views as they’ve learned previously that it works to play into people’s fears and anxieties.
I’m not downplaying what’s happening, but the references being made and calling it “covid 2.0” in an already weakened global economic state is just not doing anyone any favours.
Elliptical_Tangent@reddit
More people die of lightning strikes per year than hantavirus. It's not an objective problem, it's a narrative designed to get everyone panicked, a la monkey pox.
luminousrose9@reddit
There was a concerted public health effort to slow monkey pox including ring vaccination. It's super painful and good to avoid.
Elliptical_Tangent@reddit
Nothing at all happened in-State or locally here for monkey pox, it was only a TV phenomenon. Like hantavirus, which kills ~35 people per year, is now.
madcoins@reddit
Classic
Intrepid_Party5958@reddit
Fuck it, maybe this is how all this ends. A 40% mortality pandemic will sure as shit end this clown show.
kitzelbunks@reddit
42 days. That’s so long. If actual doctors can’t realize they may have Ebola and decide to visit a movie theatre, it would seem unwise to trust people. My dad and his siblings were quarantined with their mom as kids. He doesn’t know what illness they had anymore, but his dad couldn’t come into the house, because then he could not go to work. We know how to do this here; we have to look it up in old city medical records.
BrilliantSpecial3413@reddit
Oh are we in The Stand timeline? Neat. M-o-o-n that spells Moon!
brickout@reddit
Oooh i like/really don't like this reference
amityville@reddit
Chilling
AntiBoATX@reddit
What in the ever loving fuck is this reference
PUNd_it@reddit
The Stand by Stephen King but apparently I need to reread it. Was good but I be tokin to cope. Apocalypse, essentially, with the devil walking the earth after a plague (I'm assuming it was hantavirus?)
Something like that
NoHuckleberry2543@reddit
In the book it was an unspecified flu like illness engineered in a military lab. The media in the book named the illness Captain Trips. The story stayed well away from a real world virus.
Ching-Dai@reddit
That’s among the King novels I never read, tho I know the general premise and caught a little of the OG tv series.
Is it feeling pretty dated, or is it a decent read in our current situation(s)?
Logridos@reddit
I read it for the first time a year or two ago (doing a Dark Tower extended universe read through). It's no more dated than any other King work from the era. It was enjoyable, but early King definitely has its issues.
BrilliantSpecial3413@reddit
The stand is a movie about a virus that kills all but a small group if people whonthen share group hallucinations about the devil and an old black lady who represents good from all over the USA.
rekabis@reddit
Phrasing.
The black lady does not represent good from all over the USA. It is the survivors who originate from all over America.
It would be better written as,
BrilliantSpecial3413@reddit
Oh my god. It's reddit not a dissertation.
rekabis@reddit
Either mean what you say or say what you mean. If you cannot do either…
And phrasing is vitally important to comprehension. If others are forced to disentangle your entire description just to understand it, most simply won’t.
Remember - Americans are some of the dumbest people in the western world. Almost 60% of American adults cannot read past a 6th grade level. This makes clear, simple, unambiguous writing absolutely crucial to conveying information.
BrilliantSpecial3413@reddit
Yea no. I don't want you in my life. Sorry have a nice life, nothing personal but this isn't what I'm signing up for. byeee
BrilliantSpecial3413@reddit
Seriously did you not see a comment further down? I wrote this while chasing two kids on a mid-ass mother's day. This isn't helpful. This is my casual place not my university.
ObviousOrca@reddit
The movie and tv series are crap. Read the book.
BrilliantSpecial3413@reddit
respectfully disagree. The mini series got me into Stephen King as a teen,
loralailoralai@reddit
The book blows any adaptation out of the water.
x_lincoln_x@reddit
The original mini-series is good. The recent remake of the mini-series is crap.
BrilliantSpecial3413@reddit
Also I saw your correction. I typed my original comment when I was breaking up a fight with my kids. I know it's a book.I know it's a mini series. I was just distracted
x_lincoln_x@reddit
No need to apologize. All good.
BrilliantSpecial3413@reddit
I wasn't apologizing lol
BrilliantSpecial3413@reddit
Hard agree
blackmox-photophob@reddit
BrilliantSpecial3413@reddit
You're right. Book. I can't help but have the movie in mind when I talk about it though. It was my first awakening, thanks Rob Lowe.
x_lincoln_x@reddit
Mini-series.
MrScroticus@reddit
Give Robert mccammons Swan Song a read, too. That one tracks with the current world situation too. Think The Stand but instead of a virus Nuclear bombs everywhere.
norfolkgarden@reddit
Hahahaha, the only thing better is the movie Contagion.
Basically all you really need is the last 30 seconds of the remake Planet of the Apes movie. Start from where the neighbor pilot wipes his nose to the moving flights diagram.
But I thought the ebola patient flown to the US years ago was going to be ground zero. So I continue to be very, very happy to be wrong.
Successful_Manager74@reddit
Same. I was convinced we were really in for it then. Glad I was wrong as well. Wonder if we were picking up vibes of the COVID to come!
loralailoralai@reddit
The Stand will never be dated. It’s an incredible book.
QueenCobraFTW@reddit
I looooved it when it came out. Re-read it multiple times, it was why I started thinking about studying microbiology. It got a lot of things right, and a lot of things almost hilariously wrong.
Picked it up again last year just to see if I still loved it, I couldn't finish it. It was so black/white thinking and insanely religious. I've moved on. (Tried the movie, too, it was worse.)
philopsilopher@reddit
I liked the stark polarity of the book. Definitely felt it was a conscious choice, a feature rather than lazy writing.
QueenCobraFTW@reddit
I don't disagree. I simply outgrew it, mostly because I've read so many better books about outbreaks and because I'm no longer at all religious.
DallyBark@reddit
I know we aren't in a book sub, but l care to share some good ones? For research I guess (that part is sarcasm, but I really would love some suggestions!)
Disco_sauce@reddit
Swan Song, Lucifer's Hammer, Station Eleven, and Seveneves come to mind.
QueenCobraFTW@reddit
Seveneves, grrr. So much misery could have been avoided if they had just shot the politician out the airlock. Neal Stephenson in a class of his own.
Good list, I'll add Hot Zone and Cobra Event, both by Richard Preston.
superfly355@reddit
I'm here for that info, too!
legosgrrl@reddit
The Stand is infinitely re-readable.
gamera72@reddit
In high school, The Stand was my go-to when I would get grounded.
legosgrrl@reddit
I'll be on my fifth playthrough soon. "The place where you made your stand never mattered. Only that you were there...and still on your feet."
bendianajones@reddit
Well said.
SalamanderExpress710@reddit
I just listened to the audiobook for the first time and it ranks among the top books I’ve ever read. Fantastic read.
Cultural-Answer-321@reddit
It's good experienced the story, but... saying you read an audio book, is....
SalamanderExpress710@reddit
Semantics. Stfu dude.
Cultural-Answer-321@reddit
LOL. Semantics, indeed.
SalamanderExpress710@reddit
“ACKSHUALLY, listening to an audiobook doesn’t count as reading 🤓”
-You
doubletwist@reddit
As far as I'm concerned, if listening to an audiobook counts as reading, then watching a movie counts as reading.
Early-Light-864@reddit
You should read it when we're doing kickstand again!
It's really good. You should read it
saltysomadmin@reddit
It's very good but I thought the "Complete and Uncut Edition" drug a little in the middle. Might be an unpopular opinion.
CatPartyElvis@reddit
Your mom's dated, by everyone.
shewhoownsmanyplants@reddit
Oh, I highly recommend if you haven’t read it! One of my faves of his.
Cultural-Answer-321@reddit
It's pretty much the OG standard of modern apocalypse.
softsnowfall@reddit
It’s my favorite book by SK (and he’s a favorite author)… I have reread it several times over the years… I last reread it in 2020… I don’t find any of his books to be dated, but then again, I never think any great book is dated… ymmv…
M-O-O-N that spells fantastic…
Cut_Lanky@reddit
Who had Hanta on their Apocalypse bingo card?
Wuellig@reddit
Turns out Captain Trips includes cruises and flights
msoats@reddit
Laws yes, everyone knows that!
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
Trashcan Man would have just driven through the Hormuz blockade tbh
Due-Dot6450@reddit
It's all sorted I hear.
MoBrosBooks@reddit
They really gotta do a Pirates of the Carribean soft reboot, where the OG pirates and their ships are all brought back to life via one of the many curses/magicks from the universe. And they're clashing with Somalian pirates, the US Navy, etc. There'd be comic relief in the form of the Black Pearl trying to achieve anything against an aircraft carrier.
InconspicuousWarlord@reddit
I would watch the shit out of that
Obvious-Hunt19@reddit
Just imagine if Gary Sinise doesn’t slap that fuel cutoff button
pantstoaknifefight2@reddit
Laws, yes.
nacnud_uk@reddit
Mother A has us covered.
rougarou-te-fou@reddit
No great loss.
CheesecakeExpress@reddit
Do we know why they didn’t just stay on the cruise ship to quarantine? Surely that would have been the most sensible thing to do?
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
the ship itself is the exposure site. 3 people died on board, shared ventilation, shared dining, confined spaces for weeks. quarantining on the ship means keeping 139 uninfected people locked in with the contamination source for another 42 days. the Dutch government specifically said they wanted passengers off because the ship environment increases risk not reduces it.
computer-magic-2019@reddit
However, there’s a difference between removing people from the ship, and distributing them around the world. They could have put them in individual temporary housing for 8 weeks in Tenerife.
CheesecakeExpress@reddit
I thought the exposure site was the landfill where the first patient went bird watching?
Thanks for explaining though; essentially if people were left on the ship they’d all be likely to catch it? This way, there’s a chance they won’t?
HI-TECmoon@reddit
In case it helps:
2026 May 11 Nebraska Medicine press conference, with questions at the end, after the arrival of US patients:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Skk7kAW1E30
cr0ft@reddit
It's incredible when it's so straightforward - quarntine them for the required 42 fucking days before letting them go anywhere. But no, we can't even do that in fucking capitalism and stupidity rules.
Would it suck for the people involved to have to spend 42 days somewhere? Absolutely. Do I give a shit compared to the risk of spreading this thing worldwide? Absolutely not. As long as they had meals, shelter and some entertainment, fuck their boredom.
sentientshadeofgreen@reddit
Seriously. Let’s look at the cost of the last pandemic. Now let’s look at the cost of straight up paying these motherfuckers to stay the fuck home. Bring food to their doorstep, who cares, but we can not have another pandemic.
HI-TECmoon@reddit
If there is a bigger outbrake, are medical professionals going to accept risking their lifes?
There isn't even a treatment for the Andes hantavirus + the 40% lethality.
Ok_Bike6985@reddit
Nope
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
thats the question nobody in public health wants to answer out loud. during COVID healthcare workers walked into hospitals without adequate PPE because the crisis was already there. with Andes hantavirus the fatality rate is 35-40% and there is no vaccine and no antiviral treatment. the CDC HAN notice tells clinicians to use airborne isolation rooms with N95s. if this scaled, every hospital would have to decide whether to admit patients into rooms that put staff at that level of risk for a disease with no treatment. some would. some wouldnt. and that staffing decision would determine the real capacity long before beds run out.
fart-atronach@reddit
Isn’t the “treatment” essentially just keeping them on ventilators while they need it and letting the virus run its course?
saul2015@reddit
what are we doing
rgtrade@reddit
It's like the perfect plague inc. start. If this where my virus, i'd probably win.
dominantspecies@reddit
The cdc is just an arm Of the Trump regime now
findergrrr@reddit
We gonna have a massive inflow of tourist from around the world for the sun eclipse soon in spain.
TameTheAuroch@reddit
Tbh viruses with such high mortality rate don’t scale well, especially to the level of a large-scale global pandemic.
Woe for the ones who catch it from these “scattered” passengers though…
5-MethylCytosine@reddit
Well it has a very long incubation period and can therefore spread far and wide within and between populations before the scale can be appreciated
KABCatLady@reddit
I thought i heard it isn’t contagious during the incubation period. Only once symptoms appear. Which does help
ConsiderationSea1347@reddit
But that incubation period means people can be exposed, travel a thousand miles without thinking anything is wrong, then while trying to muscle through a late shift at an Amazon warehouse have explosive diarrhea or wet coughing fit exposing people around them to the virus. Who then go on to not realize they are infected for two months.
Even if there was a low chance of transmission, it is insane to me that the members of that cruise ship were scattered around the world and sent home.
KABCatLady@reddit
I’m not disagreeing with you. Sounds like we’re on the same page. Not contagious during incubation period. Contagious once symptoms start. And this does help. It’s not great. Obviously. But the the thing with Covid was that people would be unknowingly spreading it while asymptomatic. One scenario is arguably worse than the other. Both bad. One worse.
fart-atronach@reddit
We don’t actually know when they become contagious. It seems that there is a period before symptoms appear (we don’t know how long that period is) where the virus becomes transmissible. Viruses also mutate the more they are spread.
BeardedGlass@reddit
That's the issue. You don't know if you're infectious.
It can be infectious even before symptoms start. And the symptoms are mild fever, body aches... technically indistinguishable from a cold.
To think that the flu spreads so easily too.
TameTheAuroch@reddit
Spreads via bodily fluids and close contact not via air. The variant is known. No need to be alarmist.
undeadlamaar@reddit
You ever seen how much fecal matter gets thrown into the air and lands on surrounding surfaces when the toilet is flushed? While it is true that airborne transmission of Hantavirus through coughing and breathing is non-existent, aerosolized contaminated fecal matter can and will spread the virus. One of the most common vectors of initial exposure to Hantavirus comes from infected rat droppings being dispersed through the air, usually through sweeping up rat droppings. That is why it is recommended to wear PPE including dust masks when sweeping up rat droppings.
Less_Mess_5803@reddit
This variant....
Maarten-Sikke@reddit
Exactly my thought… people seems to forget how quick covid mutated into strains to become more spreadable…
Also covid mortality rate is a joke with Andes. Even if mutated and becomes less lethal… how less lethal can become from 40%? 20%? Thats still high af compared to Covid 2-3%. Especially we don’t have a treatment that work not even close to 60% yet on this strain.
I am not alarmist but realistic. So far I think is not a danger, but obviously deserves to keep an eye on updates. As soon as this starts infecting new people, then I think we should start piling up toilet paper
undeadlamaar@reddit
Unfortunately, the long incubation period works in its favor. People aren't gonna just sit around at the house for two months waiting to see if they become symptomatic. They couldn't even do it for 7-10 days with Covid19. And although it is not transmissible before showing symptoms, there is a small window of half a day or so before the major Hantavirus-indicative symptoms set in where you are contagious but most likely not showing symptoms severe enough to clue you in that you have it. And this could happen at ANY time between 1 and 8 weeks of exposure. Plenty of time to infect multiple people before the shit hits the fan and it is 100% clear that you are infected.
jizzlevania@reddit
Ummm ebola kills 50-90% of those infected and the only reason it doesn't hit global pandemic levels is the effective quarantines and isolation imposed by other countries/continents.
Viruses with high kill rates scale spectacularly, just like AIDs in the 1980's and 90's.
I normally tell people they need Jesus, but you need science.
BrightCandle@reddit
AIDs is still a pandemic, its still raging. Lives are being saved with expensive medicine in the USA and EU but in the rest of the world its killing people and continues to grow. We don't even have a lid on AIDs after 55 years and the best we can do is keep sufferers alive.
HappyAnimalCracker@reddit
A long incubation period during which the virus can be contagious means plenty of time to spread before it kills the host, no?
fuckingartschool101@reddit
Potential scale doesn’t matter here as much as the fact that this virus is highly deadly, so it’s truly not worth a global dice roll of “how well will this take off in a population of 1+x covid infected folks(since we know covid infections cumulatively negative impact on immune function)” no matter how you solve it.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
agree on the fatality rate point. thats actually what makes the response failure more visible. if this killed 0.1% instead of 35-40% wed be having a completely different conversation because the case count would be orders of magnitude higher before anyone noticed. the low transmissibility is doing the heavy lifting here, not the response infrastructure.
New-Return-4081@reddit
The people in Nebraska will go to UNMC quarantine unit. They’re just flying into the base, not staying there. It’s where they sent the man who had Ebola.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
good correction, thanks. the UNMC quarantine unit is one of the best containment facilities in the country. the disconnect is still the CDC saying no quarantine while the state prepared a 42-day isolation plan at a biocontainment-grade facility. if you dont need quarantine why are you using the best quarantine unit in the US.
New-Return-4081@reddit
What’s wild is that our governor here in Nebraska is a stupid POS and usually just rolls over to Trump. I’m surprised he went “against” what the cdc said.
fart-atronach@reddit
I mean I guess that depends on what they actually do vs what they say.
_mikedotcom@reddit
America: where viruses can hang out and do whatever!
Wildcard982@reddit
The federal government doesn’t want to quarantine. Here goes Trump purposely spreading a disease again
totalmasscontrol@reddit
So we got time to read ALL the Epstein files. :/
StillCorgi1516@reddit
"Alan,we are So.Fucked."
fightndreamr@reddit
I'm a bit behind on the entire timeline but why did they not just keep them in a quarantined zone at a specified port? Seems way better than letting the infection vectors spread...
the_friendly_dildo@reddit
My post is blocked for some reason so I'll just dump my article here since we're looking at the same topic:
Two policies that cannot both be true
On May 8, the CDC published a Health Alert Network notice for clinicians on the MV Hondius Andes virus outbreak. Buried in the clinical guidance:
> "Place patients in an airborne infection isolation room... Wear an N95 or higher-level respirator, gown, gloves, and eye protection... Airborne precautions are required when performing aerosol-generating procedures."
This is not "standard precautions." This is airborne-level containment the same precautions used for tuberculosis and measles.
On May 10, NIH Director Jay Bhattacharya went on CNN's State of the Union and announced:
> "Seven Americans have already returned home... CDC officials will interview remaining passengers to determine the risk that they were exposed. If they had no contact to anyone symptomatic, they will be deemed low risk... They will be allowed to return home if they can get there without exposing other people on the way."**
Both cannot be true.
If airborne isolation rooms and N95s are medically necessary for confirmed patients, then sending potentially incubating passengers to home environments where they share bathrooms, kitchens, and HVAC with family is epidemiologically incoherent. If home isolation is safe for exposed individuals, then airborne precautions for confirmed cases are unnecessary theater. The US government is doing both simultaneously without explanation.
Who is making this call?
Jay Bhattacharya is a health economist, not an infectious disease physician. He holds an MD and a PhD in economics from Stanford. He has never practiced clinical medicine in an outbreak setting. His primary research area is Medicare policy. He has no background in virology, no training in outbreak response, and no experience managing a high-consequence pathogen event.
What he does have is a public record during COVID-19 that disqualifies him from being trusted with containment decisions.
In October 2020, Bhattacharya co-authored the Great Barrington Declaration a document published by a libertarian free-market think tank (the American Institute for Economic Research, which has promoted climate change denial) arguing that governments should abandon lockdowns, school closures, and mask mandates and instead allow COVID-19 to spread unchecked through the "healthy" population to achieve "herd immunity" while attempting to "protect the vulnerable."
The declaration was: - Not peer-reviewed - Contained no scientific modeling or epidemiological analysis - Condemned by the American Public Health Association and 13 other public health organizations as "not grounded in science and is dangerous" - Endorsed by the Trump administration and Scott Atlas
Bhattacharya wrote in the Wall Street Journal that "a 20,000- or 40,000-death epidemic is a far less severe problem than one that kills two million" and that "universal quarantine may not be worth the costs." He opposed every major COVID containment measure. His position has always been the same: let the virus spread, accept the deaths, prioritize economic and individual liberty over collective public health measures.
He is now NIH Director because Trump nominated him. Not because of infectious disease expertise. Not because of outbreak response experience. Because he agrees with the administration's position that collective containment is unnecessary and unacceptable.
The man who argued we should let COVID-19 rip through the population is now making the same argument about a virus with a 38% case fatality rate and no vaccine, no treatment, and no rapid test.
The US is the only country offering exposed passengers a choice between federal quarantine and self-directed home isolation. Bhattacharya explicitly said passengers were "allowed" to bypass the Nebraska National Quarantine Unit and fly commercial to California, Texas, Virginia, and Georgia.
The incubation problem they're not talking about
Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus admitted in a text to Inside Medicine (May 8):
> "As you know, the incubation period is long and although she is negative for now, she might turn positive in the future."
He was referring to the KLM flight attendant. The incubation window for Andes virus is up to 8 weeks (56 days). A negative PCR at day 11–12 means nothing definitive. Singapore is quarantining its flight contacts for 75 days. The US is sending people home at day 10–14.
Bhattacharya's own justification that passengers without "contact to anyone symptomatic" are "low risk" ignores the central problem: you cannot determine exposure risk retrospectively on a cruise ship where 147 people shared enclosed spaces, ventilation, and bathrooms for 4+ weeks while a symptomatic patient was dying on board. The ship's doctor became infected simply by treating patients. The ship's guide became infected through routine passenger interaction. By what standard are the remaining 140 people "low risk"?
The aerosol question they're dodging
On May 8, an open Letter to WHO (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(26)00173-2/fulltext) was published in The Lancet Respiratory Medicine by outbreak medicine specialists. It stated:
> "Aerosol or airborne transmission has not been ruled out and should therefore be accounted for in infection control measures... Respirator use, not medical masks, is the appropriate standard... Toilet flushing generates aerosol plumes which... may contribute to human-to-human transmission, particularly in poorly ventilated indoor spaces."
The CDC's own HAN notice effectively agrees mandating airborne isolation and N95s. Bhattacharya's home-quarantine policy ignores it.
Dr. Gustavo Palacios the world's leading expert on human-to-human Andes virus transmission, who led the study of the 2018–19 Epuyén outbreak told El País:
> "A ship is inherently a place that facilitates contagion."
> "We've never seen how [Andes virus] behaves on a ship."
> "The conditions on the ship are theoretically worse than the 2018 outbreak in Argentina."
In Epuyén, 34 people were infected at a birthday party. The ship has 147 people in continuous enclosed contact for weeks. The US response is calibrated as if this were a contained, understood risk. It is not.
The institutional decay behind the contradiction
The AP's Mike Stobbe reported:
> "'The CDC is not even a player,' said Lawrence Gostin, an international public health expert at Georgetown University. 'I've never seen that before.'"
> "Jennifer Nuzzo, director of Brown University's Pandemic Center... said the situation 'shows how empty and vapid the CDC is right now.'"
The Trump administration has gutted CDC staffing (estimates range from 10–80% of senior positions eliminated), dissolved the Vessel Sanitation Program (eliminated 6 days before the Hondius outbreak was announced), withdrew from WHO, and transferred ASPR functions during an active reorganization. The agency that managed the Diamond Princess in 2020 now cannot hold a public briefing without RFK Jr.'s aides forbidding officials from being named.
The policy incoherence airborne isolation for patients, home quarantine for exposed reflects institutional schizophrenia: career CDC scientists writing precautionary guidance while political appointees who opposed every pandemic containment measure dismantle the capacity to enforce it.
The genomic data they still haven't released
As of May 10, only one sequence has been made public posted by the University of Zurich to an open scientific forum. The three other labs conducting sequencing (NICD South Africa, Institut Pasteur Dakar, ANLIS Argentina) have issued no joint statement, no phylogenetic comparison, and no mutation assessment.
It has been 6 days since the first PCR confirmation. Basic genomic analysis takes 24–48 hours. The absence of even a preliminary statement from WHO or any official lab while simultaneously reassuring the public that "this is not COVID" is consistent with information management, not merely bureaucratic delay.
aalitheaa@reddit
"Your" article? Are you a journalist or a writer of some kind?
The whole thing is formatted and written like AI slop. Am I mistaken? Did you write this content?
the_friendly_dildo@reddit
I did write that as an article to post directly here.
aalitheaa@reddit
So, you're saying you did not generate any of that text from an LLM?
the_friendly_dildo@reddit
How about I dont intend to engage with people that want to stir up bad faith arguments. I answered your question in my first response. Despite that, you insist on being rude. I don't have any interest in engaging with someone that just wants to trash my work with baseless assumptions. I cited my work. I stand by my work. If you have a specific issue with my work, then you ought to have addressed that. Instead, you want to attack a straw man fantasy that tirelessly lives in your head. Move on.
aalitheaa@reddit
Oh come on, you don't "stand by" your LLM generated "work," you won't even say the words LLM or AI when repeatedly asked about it.
If you really "worked" on this in addition to initially generating it from a chatbot, just say so! If you didn't use a chatbot at all, then say that—but obviously, that's not the case. Thanks for finally confirming it, even though the only confirmation is just you beating around the bush and avoiding the topic entirely.
smackson@reddit
Thanks for your efforts.
I only has to get as far as
... which I didn't know, but I remember well the "Great Barrington Fucklaration" to slap my forehead about how we are worse situated for SHTF than 6 years ago.
MaddogBC@reddit
As soon as I read "health economist" I knew he was an asshole.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
this is the sharpest framing of the contradiction ive seen. CDC telling clinicians to use airborne isolation rooms and N95s while simultaneously telling the public no quarantine needed. those two positions cannot both be right. thank you for pulling the actual HAN notice language.
the_friendly_dildo@reddit
What this looks like from outside
The US is: - The only country letting exposed passengers choose their quarantine venue - The only country whose top health official publicly dismissed centralized quarantine - The only country whose outbreak policy is being set by a man who spent the last pandemic arguing we should let viruses spread - The country with the most degraded outbreak response infrastructure - The country whose own CDC guidance contradicts its operational policy - The country whose incubation-period monitoring ends weeks earlier than Singapore, UK, or Netherlands
And the public message, repeated endlessly: "This is not COVID. Risk is low."
Perhaps. But low risk handled incompetently becomes high risk. And the pattern maximal operational response (Tedros flying to Tenerife, RAF airdropping paratroopers, EU activating civil protection) paired with minimal public transparency and a quarantine policy designed by someone who thinks quarantines don't work does not look like institutions that believe their own reassurances.
eloiseturnbuckle@reddit
Stock up on k95s friends! Time to be ahead of the curve. However if I read correctly, this virus is a known quantity vs COVID 🤷🏼♀️ it does have something like 36% death rate though. So oh joy.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
the mask thing is smart regardless of this specific outbreak honestly. we just watched 23 countries argue about whether to quarantine the same passengers for two weeks. if something actually deadly and airborne hits next year the protocol gap is going to be the same or worse. might as well have the masks already.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
And no vaccine as well.
Guess Brainworm and his anti-vax friends will be happy...
Someones_Dream_Guy@reddit
Relax, it's only 40% mortality rate.
RunYouFoulBeast@reddit
And 8 weeks
gnostic_savage@reddit
And to be fair, if Covid was anything to go by, republican voters and red states will account for 40% more of the deaths.
utivich95@reddit
Housing crisis solved?
smackson@reddit
Somehow rent will cost even more because of XYZ related to any crisis.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
the mortality rate is actually why this is a useful stress test. high enough to take seriously, low transmissibility means it stays small. perfect conditions to evaluate whether response infrastructure works. spoiler: 23 countries with 23 different protocols says it doesnt.
ramdom-ink@reddit
Yeah! it’s not even gonna kill half of the people who get infected!
moschles@reddit
This hantavirus has an incubation period from 6 to 8 weeks.
famous last words.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
thats the math that makes this messy. 42 day risk window extends to mid June for the last passengers repatriated. 23 countries monitoring on different timelines with different definitions of what counts as a contact. some doing active surveillance, some doing passive ask-them-to-call-if-sick. the incubation length is what turns a single ship into a distributed experiment across 10 time zones.
BeardedGlass@reddit
My uncle went out that way during the peak of COVID.
He was fine and attended a birthday party, saying he feels fine etc.
Went home and just didn't wake up the following morning.
michaltee@reddit
If you guys need a sanity check: go to the epidemiology sub. They don’t think this will be as likely to spread as COVID. Yes it’s scary, but let’s be honest with reporting so we’re not panicking.
Obviously, there are unknowns, but just keep your expectations in check.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
epidemiology sub is right that this probably doesnt become a pandemic. thats not really the point of the post though. 23 countries handling the same passengers with protocols that directly contradict each other. France doing 45 day hospital quarantine. Netherlands doing home quarantine. CDC saying no isolation needed. that coordination gap doesnt disappear when the next pathogen shows up. this is the stress test and the infrastructure is showing the cracks.
springcypripedium@reddit
It's stunning to me that we have been as lucky as we have been in avoiding (by luck) an even deadlier pandemic than covid running rampant throughout the world. The hubris, entitlement, willful ignorance (or plain stupidity) and human exceptionalism that courses through so much of humanity (especially in the u.s.) is mind blowing. And most epidemiologists say it is not "if" but "when" our luck runs out.
https://www.livescience.com/health/viruses-infections-disease/we-have-basically-destroyed-what-capacity-we-had-to-respond-to-a-pandemic-says-leading-epidemiologist-michael-osterholm
It seems pointless to say "this should be yet another wake up call" because it is clear that most humans (again, at least in the u.s.) are blind to wake up calls, as evidenced by the willful destruction of the biosphere. Co2 levels at 433. 47 on May 10 and no end to burning fossil fuels in sight.
Nettwerk911@reddit
Invest in toilet paper
splittingthesun@reddit
I think it's gonna be okay
Pnmamouf1@reddit
A year from now we will wish this ship"accidentally" sunk at sea
Odd_Awareness1444@reddit
I guess we will see in mid June if cases are spreading from this event.
BeardedGlass@reddit
30-50% mortality rate...
It sounds like a Thanos' snap.
ignorant__slut@reddit
In Australia, we were warned that in the future, we may have to change the frequency in which garbage is collected to ration fuel. If any country experiences changes to their rubbish disposal services (due to lack of fuel), the rodents would be further encouraged and could actually become a pest problem.
I cbf looking for the articles
3xactli@reddit
We might have less collection due to rising fuel costs, but we might also get higher council rates!!!!
CheesecakeExpress@reddit
Where I live in the uk there have been bin strikes do over 18 months. My recycling hasn’t been collected in that long. This means people’s household waste is frequently overflowing, as they try to squeeze in recycling, or the just dump it on the streets. Which causes…pests. Perfect.
Jew_Man_Chu@reddit
And the shortage of diesel. We’re gonna see a couple black swans this year.
Unusual_Key_5357@reddit
It's almost as if a small cluster of disease can, in fact, be collapse related.
dashingsauce@reddit
The biggest red flag for me is the Airlink flight from St Helena -> Johannesburg with 82 passengers on the same flight as the Dutch woman who died.
The flight was ~9 days before the airline was notified on May 3 of Hantavirus exposure. Since then, they have traced 50 contacts with 10 “under monitoring” and have produced zero test results.
Every other country was quick to publish negative results.
Where are the 50 test results for the highest value information node in the chain?
humanspeech@reddit
I do want to add that a lot of the people who have died from the virus are really old people. The average age of the person on that cruise was 65 years old per the WHO website.
We said this about the coronavirus as well, but I'd like to think that the difference was that Wuhan is a lot more crowded and dense than the average European city.
dashingsauce@reddit
The larger issue is that it’s 147 of the most at-risk passengers you could possibly gather in one place.
Moreover, we just got our first asymptomatic case: https://apnews.com/article/hantavirus-cruise-ship-hondius-tenerife-1c43c66d2b0555cf946d9e57fc65f1d4
So there’s too many people unaccounted for to make this feel any safer than COVID. 40-50% mortality is insane, even for the elderly.
I can only imagine what a non-fatal pass would still do to a person.
humanspeech@reddit
I don't think it's safer than COVID, I do think it's less likely to be transmitted from the information we have though.
dashingsauce@reddit
Less likely so far, yes.
The growth model will be different, though, so it’s too early to say.
Given the incubation period, the 30-100 people who were on the ship and got off at St Helena or were on the flight to Jburg, and the approach up to now to not test without symptoms basically creates the perfect delayed breeding ground for a respiratory disease.
Already we have 9 confirmed cases and ~3-5 more suspected or probable.
That math just doesn’t map to the existing assumptions on which the public is actively being sold.
We have a) clearly misunderstood and underestimated the virus, and b) dispersed a high-risk, incompletely tested, multinational contact cohort while relying on uneven national follow-up
Statistically and operationally speaking, this is how you maximize your odds of an epidemic.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
i didnt have the Airlink flight numbers. 82 passengers on a commercial flight from St Helena to Johannesburg with a confirmed case is a much bigger exposure vector than the chartered repatriation flights. do you have a source on whether South Africa screened or quarantined those passengers on arrival?
dashingsauce@reddit
Nope — that’s kind of the issue.
There are disparate pieces stating that ~50 have been contacted and ~10 of them “being monitored” (notably not quarantined) in Gauteng and 4 in Western Cape, with the additional ~30 people who haven’t been contacted.
One in Western Cape has mild symptoms.
More concerning:
Here’s some of the latest I could find:
https://iol.co.za/news/2026-05-10-how-south-africa-is-responding-to-the-hantavirus-outbreak-linked-to-the-mv-hondius/
https://smilefm.co.za/hantavirus-contact-tracing-underway-in-the-western-cape-and-gauteng/
https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/859942/signs-of-hantavirus-being-monitored-in-south-africa/
And this is some of the EU guidance for what we should roughly expect with regard to strategy:
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/andes-hantavirus-rapid-scientific-advice-management-passengers.pdf
But yeah, we are essentially working with the most under-reported dataset for the highest risk profile group, with the most lead time for testing and still no results.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
50 contacted and 10 monitored but not quarantined from an 82 passenger flight where a confirmed case was on board. thats less than two thirds even contacted. the other 32 passengers from that Airlink flight are somewhere in Gauteng with no monitoring at all. thanks for digging that up.
dashingsauce@reddit
They actually are not necessarily in Gauteng. For all we know, they got on other flights and are in entirely unknown destinations.
The Western Cape and Gauteng cases are being tracked slightly more closely because those are South African citizens, I believe.
But as for the rest, both SA and Airlink are effectively saying “not our jurisdiction”
Smallsey@reddit
Classic Americans
aliael14@reddit
Physician here. This is not COVID and will not play by those rules. Likely overblown. Quarantine doesn’t seem necessary at this time. May change in a week but likely not
stop_talking_you@reddit
you should lose your licence if you are active practican. shut your mouth
PhotographUsed1255@reddit
That doesn't sound right. Can you explain more why you don't think quarantine is necessary. You have not said enough to make your answer sound sensible. If I was a patient, I would certainly isolate myself knowing the incubation period, even if I was told it wasn't necessary.
stop_talking_you@reddit
the WHO is willingly killing humans. they dont care. same thing happend with covid
JapaneseCDBonusTrack@reddit
It feels like the only thing that could prevent this from being a pandemic is the ineffectiveness of the hantavirus itself. I have zero faith in humanity preparing for and preventing another pandemic and this is just a reminder of yet another thing that could easily finish us off, as if 2026 didn't already showcase enough of them. The doomsday clock keeps ticking closer.
jykke@reddit
I can already guess "home quarantine" is not going to work very well...
thehomeyskater@reddit
We’re doomed
loralailoralai@reddit
Since you’ve left them out, the Australians and a Kiwi will be flying to Australia on a government charter flight and assessed at a ‘biocontainment centre’ at one of the big Sydney hospitals. Quarantine measures after that have yet to be decided.
Don’t drop the ball again please, America
yogo8629@reddit
CDC says no quarantine, Nebraska says 42 days. same passengers, same flight. that's not a disagreement that's just no one being in charge.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
exactly. and France just proved the gap is real time not theoretical. one of their passengers showed symptoms on the repatriation flight. 72 hours ago this was a cruise ship story. now its a how-many-planes-did-we-put-symptomatic-people-on story.
fuckingartschool101@reddit
Are these domestic flights, or specifically chartered? (Please don’t say domestic. Lol.)
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
chartered. each country sent their own government plane. Spain sent a military transport to Madrid. France sent one that landed with a symptomatic passenger on board. US is using a military repatriation flight to Offutt AFB. Australia is sending a plane for their nationals plus NZ. the Dutch foreign ministry chartered a flight with 29 passengers. not commercial.
BeardedGlass@reddit
The French case worries me.
That passenger developed symptoms mid-flight. they were presumably screened as asymptomatic before boarding... then became symptomatic in a sealed aircraft cabin with other people.
European CDC says people can spread the virus BEFORE they start showing symptoms. And think how it can take up to two to eight weeks for symptoms to appear. Dang.
I mean yes, the onset of symptoms is the clearest sign that you're infectious. But there's a window where transmission is already possible before you show signs you're sick.
Unfortunately the science isn't still quite solid on how long that window is.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
"...there's a window where transmission is already possible before you show signs you're sick."
Just like covid, but in this case it's weeks, not days. This does not give me a warm, fuzzy feeling...
BeardedGlass@reddit
It’s hard to gauge whether we’re being alarmist or not because we still don’t know enough about it.
Going through a pandemic, perhaps it better we side with caution.
icklefluffybunny42@reddit
Credit: https://x.com/TheVertlartnic
My initial hunch based on what we have seen so far is that it really really shouldn't become a proper global pandemic, given the disease profile and (theoretically) existing public health systems. But if they all really fuck it up badly enough in enough places then it could get slowly out of control over the next couple of years, to the point where it's a major global issue, and then all bets are off.
My gut gives 3 in 4 odds of outcome 1, and a 1 in 4 chance of of outcome 2.
BeardedGlass@reddit
If we're going to make the 2020s our recent history as precedent, then with Murphy's Law, anything that can go wrong will go wrong lol
Especially since complex systems fail simply because there are just so many ways for things to go wrong, and VERY likely to fail under stress.
I think 2026 is quite the stressor.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
I would give odds of 60-40 for option 2 in the US. We're already seeing the effects of Brainworm and his clown car appointees hollowing out the CDC.
jemapelletired@reddit
And the French passenger was tested before boarding the flight, right? Like even with a negative test initially, the symptoms still showed up 5hrs after?
Hairy_Coconut2022@reddit
Yep, people are negative literally until symptomatic. And, the incubation time can be from one to eight weeks. So two months from now, after these folks have decided they're safe and ready to travel again to celebrate their near death experience, bam.
KristySueWho@reddit
I don't know if that's true. I'm seeing a story from my local news that an American that was evacuated from the cruise ship tested positive for the virus, but currently is asymptomatic.
urlach3r@reddit
Now it's a 12 Monkeys story.
Lapidariest@reddit
Good news is. Time travel is right around the corner!
Also, movie or TV? They were both good. Favorite?
superfly355@reddit
Just started season 3 last night. Nice little surprise guest star right out of the gate.
urlach3r@reddit
Movie, all time classic.
Makeshift5@reddit
Ooo, think I’ll watch that tonight.
SurgeFlamingo@reddit
Buckle up.
vapemyashes@reddit
It’s the best way to get the virus to spread farther and wider so it makes sense why they’d do that.
liatrisinbloom@reddit
At worst this will be like the flares of Ebola that make it out of Africa. You want shit, just wait until all the dirty people who haven't vaccinated for measles cause a mass immunity amnesia-bomb and then everything is fair game again from polio to diphtheria.
timespacemotion@reddit
PUNd_it@reddit
Well, I guess it won't be nukes after all...
merRedditor@reddit
It'll probably still be nukes while everyone is busy worrying about Hantavirus, which is not primed for pandemic-level transsmission.
LRobin11@reddit
Hey, it could still be Apophis, which would be like an estimated 100,000 nukes at once. So many possibilities! What a timeline!
urlach3r@reddit
"Not with a bang, but a whimper"
BeardedGlass@reddit
A moan, a cry, a quiet sob.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
the nuclear angle is still very much alive. VP Vance hinted at tools they havent decided to use yet and the White House refused to deny it when asked directly. this could be both.
Sweetleaf505@reddit
Hantavirus is and has been a thing in new mexico for several years. Its not new but the propaganda is.
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
Hi, Sweetleaf505. Thanks for contributing. However, your comment was removed from /r/collapse for:
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TheSaxonPlan@reddit
The hantavirus in the SW US (Sin Nombre virus) is not transmissable between people. The virus in the current outbreak, Andes hantavirus, is. Big difference.
Livid-Rutabaga@reddit
The only consistency is inconsistency.
I don't even know what to say.
Logintheroad@reddit
Whelp. It's been a good ride.
og_aota@reddit
Not to mention any and everyone who comes in contact with any of them in transit.
Aegongrey@reddit
Are they actually contagious throughout incubation period though?
GridDown55@reddit
No I don't think so.
BeardedGlass@reddit
Likely not contagious for most of the incubation period, but the window right before symptoms appear is genuinely uncertain.
European CDC states they are infections even before they show symptoms.
BusyEquipment529@reddit
Don't quote me, I remember that it's quickly deadly, but it can lay dormant for a couple weeks before it starts hammering you
Hairy_Coconut2022@reddit
You can be negative for eight weeks, then suddenly symptomatic.
yogo8629@reddit
not confirmed yet, most documented person-to-person cases were with symptomatic people. but that's kind of the problem — 'not confirmed' isn't the same as 'no.' and now you have 147 people in 23 countries with a 42-day window to find out.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
10 separate repatriation flights. airport staff in Tenerife, crew on every plane, ground transport at each destination. the French PM confirmed one passenger was symptomatic in-flight and placed in strict isolation on landing. multiply that across 23 arrival airports.
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
10 separate repatriation flights. airport staff in Tenerife, crew on every plane, ground transport at each destination. the French PM confirmed one passenger was symptomatic in-flight and immediately placed in strict isolation on landing. multiply that by 10 flights and 23 arrival airports.
EaseHot6703@reddit
Cibola…
ForYourAwareness@reddit
Why is the quarantine in Nebraska. You can hardly get more central in the country
Nerdyboy78@reddit
Lets doom guys.
KeyMeasurement8122@reddit
"France is doing 72 hours hospital then 45 days home quarantine" .. as if french will abide and being reasonable.
I just read that one of the French passengers started to show symptoms on the repatriation plane, and the French government has just declared it will strengthen the isolation measures.
mellyjohnson11@reddit
I have to fly tomorrow 😢
nommabelle@reddit
tbh these posts are why i don't really frequent r/collapse anymore. its fearmongering.
SteppenAxolotl@reddit
it's always better to pretend it isn't happening.
nommabelle@reddit
no thats not the case at all with this. its fearmongering. stop overreacting to things that wont pan out. collapse is very real but fearmongering about every little thing is why people write us off as overreactive doomers.
so tired of this in this sub
SteppenAxolotl@reddit
Tell that to the ~7M covid dead.
stop overreacting to things that wont pan out
nommabelle@reddit
you're literally comparing this to covid when they are different things even if they are both viruses. honestly you're useless to talk to.
collapse is already happening, so how am i wrong that it is happening?
SteppenAxolotl@reddit
Most everything is fine. We're at the very beginning of a possible passage into a more utopian society.
nommabelle@reddit
i'm losing brain cells talking to you so im going to stop doing that
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
the whole point of posting this. the case count is small and the fatality rate makes scaling unlikely. but the response infrastructure tell different story.
nommabelle@reddit
i find it difficult to find credible information on this that isn't fearmongering, so as any good redditor, i defer to another redditor who claims to be experienced: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1t8vtuq/comment/okz66ju
tbh i believe them, as the data backs up their claims: this is not a non-issue but it is nowhere near the issue people (reddit, mainsteam media, everyone else) is making it out to be because they want clicks or misinformation
Mother-Grapefruit-45@reddit (OP)
best sources right now are WHO disease outbreak news (they publish updates with case counts), ECDC rapid scientific advice (they published passenger management guidelines specifically for this ship), and the Dutch government updates at government.nl. the CDC HAN notice from May 7 has the clinical details. stay away from anything that says pandemic because the transmissibility doesnt support that framing.
Impossible-Virus2678@reddit
I'm just waiting to join the class action lawsuit against the passengers for leaving
Some_Drink_5375@reddit
not a medical type, but seems to me this virus is mutating. and viruses, being stupid, only want to continue their existence, any way they can.
I don't like where this is headed.
Ok-Intern6865@reddit
Y’all said my post about it wasn’t in theme for this sub …well it’s indeed very concerning that if human to human is indeed the case ,we just did a great job of priming a global spreading ,because if there is just a small chance ,this could be very bad.
40% is maybe too high of a mortality rate for your average virus to super spread ,but what I think people forget is the 8 weeks of incubation.
Also we only will know more about the consequences in like 2 months …
Western_Care_5478@reddit
Also, it's not gonna be a pandemic, it's insanely hard to transmit this virus and the incubation period is so short. It's gonna be like ebola, 1 or 2 deaths in patients that are either old as fuck with countless health issues, and media scare. But yeah...after how trump handled covid? Wouldn't be shocked if this gets bad, but I HIGHLY doubt it.
Western_Care_5478@reddit
Honestly, we deserve it.
Humanity should have never had an industrial revolution.
Lapidariest@reddit
You are the carbon they want to eliminate.
BajaScout@reddit
WCGW?
tovarish22@reddit
Person-to-person transmission of Andes virus is so rare that we (academically) debate if it actually happens (or if the clusters are just the result of shared exposures) when the topic comes up at conferences. I’m not worried about it.
nerdy_volcano@reddit
What are your thoughts on the 2018 Argentinian outbreak?
tovarish22@reddit
Worrisome, and supportive of person-to-person transmission, but not definitive unfortunately. There was a good [NEJM paper](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2009040) that goes over it and supports transmission, but with the caveat that there is still more work to do to definitely prove it. Obviously, given the uncertainty, the safer option is to act as if it happens, but it’s certainly a low transmission risk even based on the best data.
AlexAuditore@reddit
The Dutch couple who were infected boarded the ship on April 23rd, and by the beginning of May (roughly a week), 5 other passengers became infected. Honest question - how did that happen if it's so hard to spread?
tovarish22@reddit
The ship was in port in a country with endemic Andes virus. It’s entirely possible there are mice/rats on the ship that exposed some passengers to their excreta.
memarco2@reddit
National or global lockdowns would help with gas demand in a major way
wewillallstarve69@reddit
Ermagerd panic
UncleBaguette@reddit
IMO it's too deadly for proper COVID-style pandemics. If it mutates to 10% mortality tho...
Starkrall@reddit
Oh so this one will not only be intentional, but obviously and blatantly intentional. At least there might be grounds for a very low payout class action lawsuit 20 years from now.
BusyBanana4205@reddit
Hantavirus isn’t contagious but one strain. Not that this doesn’t suck for those involved.
undeadlamaar@reddit
And it just so happens that THIS IS THE CONTAGIOUS ONE.
BusyBanana4205@reddit
Yea but it’s barely contagious. Not nearly contagious enough to cause a global pandemic.
undeadlamaar@reddit
For now. All it takes is the right mutation. And the more people that get it, the more it mutates.
Corn_On_Macabre_@reddit
The governor of Nebraska cannot be trusted, no matter what he says.
zippopwnage@reddit
Yea they will never be able to quarantine this one. Most authorities don't even care to begin with, and then you have all the "maga" people basically that don't care at all and every virus is just a conspiracy and nothing can hurt them.
happypawn@reddit
the real worrying fear of mine is when it becomes human-to-human contagious, because this shit sounds really easy to contract
IndividualElk4446@reddit
it already is human to human. It’s confirmed they have the Andes strain which initially comes from a rodent but then can spread human to human which is what’s happening here
Bigd1979666@reddit
Andes variant is human to human.
minionoperation@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Sxs9399@reddit
On the US administration piece, this is being handled as the system is designed. People entering the country are handled by the federal government led by Customs and border control. Choosing to send people to special processing is at the discretion of customs.
The CDC is not an authoritative body and can only support states or federal law enforcement, their primary mission is science and not policy enforcement.