First stage check with the chief, 20hr student, he told me to land through a flock of birds
Posted by Squawk_0877@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 269 comments
So I was a 20hr student doing my first stage check, the chief himself sat in the right seat. Big stakes for me, I was nervous as hell.
Funny side note, normally I ran a GoPro every lesson, not exactly approved, I always told my CFIs id cleared it with management, nobody ever bothered to check. Chief shows up that morning, I leave the GoPro in the bag because hes the guy I had been lying about. Shouldve been my first clue the universe was setting something up.
We start doing patterns, first lap, im on short final right around sunrise, and right where im supposed to flare there is a flock of huge birds just sitting there, maybe ten of them, big ones.
Im looking at this thinking ok they'll scatter, they have ears, they can hear an engine, plus the chief is sitting right there, thousands of hours, if this is bad he will say something.
I turn to him and ask go around? because at this point we are maybe 50 ft and the birds are doing absolutely nothing. He calmly goes no, keep landing
Reader, the birds did not scatter.
I bowled a perfect strike, we skip the touch and go, call for an inspection, taxi off, shut down, I get out and start taking pictures of the carnage on my phone (attached).
Chief looks at the cowling, looks at the prop, looks at me, and goes "shame we didnt have a camera in there, that wouldve been some great footage."
Passed the stage check though.
Hot_Pea7276@reddit
dam birds
Silly-Mulberry5535@reddit
Do you know what kind of birds you hit?
NCEPT_Panel@reddit
Karma farming at its best. Just another copy-pasta.
Maybe I’m wrong but it’s been posted to 10+ facebook groups and IG posts.
I can’t even tell if that’s the right wing for a 172.
BadassBlondeMILF@reddit
Cool story, bro. Total BS.
black34beard@reddit
Ikr, the setup if the story was real was the chief telling the student to do something stupid on a stage check. The student should have used Pic mentality and done a go around, thats what he would be looking for here, not listen to me i know everything. He was throwing thr question back to the student to see if he made the right decision, he did not. And "I passed by the way"... BS.
Raccoon_Ratatouille@reddit
What is the worst ADM in this post?
Lying to your instructors about getting approval from the chief pilot?
Deciding to fly through a flock of birds for the hell of it?
Or being too scared to call for a go around when you aren’t comfortable?
Professional_Will241@reddit
The best part is his instructor or at least someone in the school will see this post. People forget how small the aviation world is.
Raccoon_Ratatouille@reddit
I left that out because I wanted the post to stay up for exactly that reason.
KindnessBiasedBoar@reddit
Who's a naughty little chef aviator?
Oregon-Pilot@reddit
my dream job!
N4bq@reddit
Today we'll be making turns about a smoked salmon on toast points.
Oregon-Pilot@reddit
Sautéed Chandelle mushrooms, to be enjoyed after you successfully master the Chanterelle to ACS standards.
Nathan_Wildthorn@reddit
🤣☝️ You... are bad! 👍 But I do love my Chandelles, and Chanterelles sautéed in clarified butter and evoo with shallots,garlic and fresh, finely chopped flatleaf parsley. 👌
KindnessBiasedBoar@reddit
Chandelles are lit! 😁
LaserRanger_McStebb@reddit
Asking permission to go around is like asking permission to go to the bathroom as a grown adult.
If you need to, just go (around).
Harpinekovitz@reddit
I understand tho at this point going around can carry more risk then committing to the landing, at least if you continue landing, you’ll know you may risk hitting birds damaging the aircraft, a little, but ultimately, you’ll likely be unharmed. Going around if they did decide to scatter you still risk hitting them taking out your prop going faster speeds also risk windshield failure, and possibly bodily injury. Now you’re on a go around with no engine little energy and potentially a injury.
__joel_t@reddit
Not the same situation, but I think about Jeju 2216 when thinking about a bird strike when approaching to land and how just getting the plane on the ground might be the safest thing to do.
craciant@reddit
Very good point man. Birds are not going to to stop you from going down, but they may very well stop you from going up
Harpinekovitz@reddit
Absolutely that’s a hard real world lesson.
daveindo@reddit
I agree. I’m not a CFI, just a lowly PPL, but with animals there is no certainty. They could either stay put or scatter in either situation, so the risk of collision doesn’t really change much but the consequences do. I’m getting on the ground if possible.
Also, animals usually DO move, so going right at where they currently are is typically a pretty safe bet.
craciant@reddit
"Animals" maybe should be narrowed to "birds" though. If you're landing some podunk strip and see for example, deer... go around. Deer can't fly, you won't hit them if you don't land. Birds there's really no sense trying to maneuver, their survival instincts usually work.
daveindo@reddit
That’s fair. I guess I was speaking broadly, not just in terms of aviation purposes. When flying, if you can go around and the animal can’t fly, that’s def the right call
craciant@reddit
Something as big as a deer will fuck you up in a car too. Hit one on the driver's side at highway speed you might not survive. But similarly I would say Maximum effective breaking is the answer in that case, reduce the energy of the impact and hope the animal gets out of the way, rather than risking loss of control with aggressive maneuvering.
JediCheese@reddit
During CA training I took out a flock of birds during landing on my line check. I called it out "birds, continuing' and then flew through the flock. Doing radical maneuvers at 50ft to avoid birds is a bad idea.
Check airman agreed I made the smart decision during the debrief.
mustang__1@reddit
Ok so for twenty years I've always thought - go over birds - they always drop. Never... Never have I ever... considered what they would do if they're already <50ft AGL.
Madmaxdriver2@reddit
Worse idea is letting them go through the engine at full power. Could be a very bad idea
Harpinekovitz@reddit
I agree I did the same thing during my private pilot license training, I saw what looked like a flock of birds coming towards us really fast there was very little time to react. I pitched up a little bit. Said birds birds cover your eyes and put my forearm over my face, something I learned from watching pilot plane crash survivors who have hit birds. Turns out it was just a shit ton of leaves flying around in the autumn wind me and my cfi laughed so hard after that.
But It’s made me realize that it really is case by case sometimes it might make sense to go around or to try and maneuver around but other times it could lead to a loss of control especially at low altitudes and slow speeds in a landing configuration, regardless of the situation it is certainly very important to stay calm and focused on what your doing and what your next steps will be. This was certainly very good experience for OP regardless and will help them in their pilot decision-making, sometimes the best training happens in pucker factor. 😂
RedOtta019@reddit
At 20hrs though id call it forgivable unless its been instilled
brink84@reddit
Needs more upvotes. Maybe first solo? Maybe 2nd solo? Being that fresh who knows
Wallbanger123@reddit
Umm… if the instructor was in the plane it wasn’t a solo.
BadassBlondeMILF@reddit
You serious, Clark?
capn_starsky@reddit
It took me a year as an instructor to think about this lesson and it pissed me off. I had a student questioning whether to go around and I was FURIOUS…that I wasn’t teaching from day one that if it’s a question, then it’s not a question. I teaching from then on that if you are questioning it, just do it and I’ll buy the coffee from my extra .2 to discuss it.
nysflyboy@reddit
Luckily for me my instructor was super clear about this from day one. I mean actual day one. And periodically throughout my training he would call for a go-around - sometimes on what seemed like a perfectly good approach. I used to think he was messing with me but it was to instill that "never regret going around" mindset. I did actually ask him once "go around?" when I was clearly no longer in a stable approach, and he said yes and then in the debrief explained it exactly (again) as you just did. If there is a question, there is no question (assuming you have fuel and a running engine lol).
flying-is-awesome@reddit
I always teach my students I will never yell at you or tell you not to do a go-around if you don't feel comfortable. In fact always plan for a go-around, a landing is just a bonus.
Spiritual-Sinking@reddit
Great response!
Avi8tor_Zeus@reddit
This. 🎖️🏅🥇👏
aviationalex@reddit
Maybe. I guess schools are different. I’m in the UK and was told from the get-go, if something doesn’t feel right, go around
Patient_Code_2584@reddit
This. I was always taught "If there's any doubt, there's no doubt - go around".
RedOtta019@reddit
My point is I don’t think the school trained them well.
pattern_altitude@reddit
At that point the policy should be if you have to ask, go around.
autonym@reddit
Except that a student pilot is not the Pilot in Command. There is no analogous external authority in command of your bodily functions (unless maybe you're in prison, in which case you may well need to ask permission in some circumstances).
I think the most assertive action a student pilot can legally take in OP's situation is to say "your airplane" and refuse to continue flying. But I would not expect a 20-hour student to react that way to a chief pilot.
fighterace00@reddit
Ironically, in a post the other day a student got crushed in the comments for his 250nm cross country being invalidated because he had to use the bathroom. Even though it shows good ADM, additional practice operating at non -home airports, and doesn't hurt the intention of the reg.
mustang__1@reddit
Wait what? Why does it matter if you land on your 250nm CC? So long as it least two/three points whatever are the requisite distance I thought it didn't matter?
fighterace00@reddit
Per the regs, yes. But in part 141 the regs are whatever you submitted to the FAA and they sign off on.
SumOfKyle@reddit
(Can I go to the bathroom plz)
astroamy24@reddit
Idk, can you??
No-End2540@reddit
“In my day if you needed to pee you would pee on a tree”
Intrepid_Walk_5150@reddit
May I ?
Logical_Tart_3219@reddit
Bit more urgent though right? It’s like asking to run to the loo as you can feel the diarrhoea starting to seep out…
Intrepid_Walk_5150@reddit
If you're flying in a two seater, it's usually polite to warn when you need to go to the bathroom.
Squawk_0877@reddit (OP)
Right and at 20 hours I probably wouldve raised my hand for the bathroom too
brink84@reddit
Brother, this is a small niche community. If you ever post your airport your based at someone here has probably been there.
Take the advice and use it to learn.
r0lix@reddit
Me: raises hand to ask instructor a question
Instructor: grabs yoke on short final The hell you doing?!?
nixt26@reddit
The go around
Squawk_0877@reddit (OP)
At 20 hours I wouldve asked permission to breathe., all three count, im just glad nobody got the GoPro footage of me asking for the go around
SirEDCaLot@reddit
Then here is your lesson-- go-arounds are one of those things you NEVER need permission for. It may not be necessary to go around, but it's never harmful. The only situations where a go-around might cause danger is if you're almost out of fuel, have malfunctioning flight controls, bad weather almost on top of you, etc.
So unless there is some other emergency happening, NEVER ask to go around. Just go around.
shansta7000@reddit
You'd ask permission to breathe but not to use a go pro, that you just lie about. Change your attitude or this is not going to be a long career for you.
Professional_Will241@reddit
GoPro footage would have allowed you to have a thorough debrief. That’s at least what you should be using it for if anything.
Obvious-Hunt19@reddit
Yeh everyone sucks here
the_devils_advocates@reddit
He will be the first to come here to complain about not getting hired at ATP mins too 🤦♂️
AtmosphereMiddle1682@reddit
The worst thing about not going around in flight school is that you literally need to practice them anyway.
acfoltzer@reddit
I hope this is fake because you could not waterboard this story out of me. At least not without extremely different takeaways
velosnow@reddit
If I had some Reddit pesos I'd award this response.
ATrainDerailReturns@reddit
The worst part in my opinion is passing this ADM lmao
PhilRubdiez@reddit
Probably the lying. It shows that they know something is bad, but will just disregard it with wanton abandon.
Nati-Nevada@reddit
My favorite part is never asking why is it a good idea to have policy against filming in the cockpit? Then the individual tasked at enforcing said rule wishes he had video evidence of poor aeronautical decision making. I suspect the FAA may agree with him.
Cont4x@reddit
For OP, the camera.
The chief, the flock of birds
The third one is a learning moment for OP.
Flying skills are the first to develop, then your decision making will come with experience and confidence. I’ve certainly asked for clarity for specific situations to gauge the right course of action. So I could definitely understand why he asked, even if that’s not what I would have done.
The lying about the camera tho, that’s showing a certain behaviour I wouldn’t want to fly with
Imaloserbabys@reddit
For what purpose did he tell you to land through the flock of birds. Was it that he didn’t like birds or that he wanted to see if the plane could be damaged. Was it that you couldn’t avoid hitting the birds. Is there more to the story?
FeedMeCrabs@reddit
Well…you did land through them birds
Sloagiemakee@reddit
Had this happen on my check ride for private. Not really an issue but called out on turns around a point. Had to get a second check ride that I passed. Not saying that's the reason, it was a little windy, but a bird strike on climb out kind of sets the tone!
KehreAzerith@reddit
Keep in mind, a go around is ultimately your decision, you cannot be failed for doing one if something doesn't feel right.
RequirementSeveral72@reddit
He’s a 20 hour student. In no scenario can I envision a 20 hour student being comfortable or have the experience to over ride any instructor. The mind would be at such a conflict in a short amount of time.
rvbjohn@reddit
when I was a 20 hour student my instructor, in times of stress, would refuse to help me. It made my mind go to me making a decision without any unnecessary steps
IGoUnseen@reddit
I'm not a CFI so maybe I don't have the proper teaching perspective, but I feel that type of teaching strategy is not good, at least early on in training. Early students don't know what feeling uncomfortable but safe, and what's actually dangerous, it's the CFI's job to teach that.
I understand the counterpoint is that it can be done in debrief, but I think it's most valuable in the moment.
rvbjohn@reddit
I grew up raised by pilots, my dad was a navy fighter pilot and now flies airlines, and my step mother flew helicopters in the navy. My mom's dad, who I saw every day growing up, was a S&R heli pilot in the coast guard, so I knew a lot about planes and flying on the first day. My instructor wanted me to make decisions first, and then try to get the details ironed out. A goo example was I got cleared for an intersection takeoff and suddenly completely blanked on how runway numbers work. I asked him "should I turn left or right" and he just looked at me, so I had to check the compass and figure it out. I am sure if I tried goign the wrong way he wouldve taken control and got us pointed in the right directions. The birds are a perfect example. "Should I go around" would be met with "would you go around if I wasnt here?" but if I actually tried to land I think he wouldve grabbed control and gone around.
skunimatrix@reddit
My wife had to overrule an instructor when there were some deer near the field they were doing touch and gos at about 15 hours. However it is much easier to do when you own the airplane and it's yours vs. renting.
boganfromdownunda@reddit
That’s such a shame. I instill in my students to actively go around if they don’t feel comfortable with the approach or landing. Even if I’m onboard. Doesn’t matter the time they have.
No shame in trying again.
You can always go around.
“If you’re already asking me, why not just do it?”
RequirementSeveral72@reddit
I completely understand. I don’t think it was long after my first solo flight and 40 hours in the air that I started making my own calls instead of asking the instructor for their opinion. It takes time for that realization to hit. Until then, you’re essentially a celestial being teaching us how to use our wings. Who are we to question such beings?
boganfromdownunda@reddit
That’s exactly the reason I tell them early in their training to actively make decisions considering go arounds. If they’re comfortable with it before their first solo, they’ll probably be comfortable with it the rest of their lives. Doesn’t matter what they fly.
awh@reddit
I got failed on my PPL checkride for exactly that reason. Different country, different time though.
casual_time_machine@reddit
If you're lying about something this small, you shouldn't be a pilot, or in aviation at all for that matter.
casual_time_machine@reddit
If you're lying about something this small, you shouldn't be a pilot, or in aviation at all for that matter.
anonymousclue2@reddit
Why are you lying to your CFIs about being cleared to film? One of my ground rules is I will fire a student if they lie to me. Not that filming is a big deal
Squawk_0877@reddit (OP)
Lucky me you werent my instructor 😅
cpt_ppppp@reddit
Agree on this. Not a big deal but the principle of being okay with just lying is a huge red flag
Jolly_Line@reddit
It’s fine. They haven’t covered hazardous attitudes yet.
mentholpod86@reddit
Rules don’t apply to me duh!
Mike734@reddit
This might be a perfect example of not judging because we weren’t there. Nobody can really predict what they would have done unless they were sitting in the seat as they approached a flock of birds. The camera stuff is different.
I was sitting at the gate in PSP one day having just completed one of my first max8 flights. Our mechanic came over to us and asked us to check out the other 737 that just pulled in to a neighboring gate. He said they flew through a large flock of small birds as they were landing and sustained many bird strikes. He said he stopped counting at around 50 strikes. Every leading edge had bird blood on it. The wings, the engine cowls, the nose and landing gear. Bird debris everywhere. The runway was littered with dead birds. One might ask why they flew through them? But what choice did they have?
They hit them at low speed and low power while they were in the flare. Going around might have worked if they saw them soon enough, but did they? I don’t know. All I know is, the birds didn’t do any permanent damage and everyone on board walk away unharmed. If they had gone around, who knows what might have happened? Do we all remember what happened to the 737 that went around, lost both engines and landed without gear only to slide into a barrier? That didn’t end well.
Those of you declaring that the chief pilot is a psychopath are being a little hyperbolic, don’t you think? In this case it’s probably better to reserve judgement and be thankful everyone walked away.
Yuri909@reddit
Lol a Facebook page has already stolen this story
https://www.facebook.com/share/1Chx5Ryu9p/
coachclapper@reddit
Is this just ragebait then?
busting_bravo@reddit
So I'm kinda horrified at this story for a number of reasons, one is the lack of regard for the lives of innocent animals. The other is the lack of regard for the safety of the occupants in the plane. The next is the lack of regard for the next people who are going to fly the plane.
I get that there are some psychopaths out there that think killing innocent animals is funny. I don't like it but I get it. At the same time, I would not fly with that person again. You absolutely should have gone around unless it was an emergency and you needed to land RIGHT THEN. So many things could have gone wrong which could have gotten you both killed.
The decision to willfully cause damage with your aircraft and TO your aircraft boggles my mind.
For the record - bird strikes do happen. Sometimes you can't avoid them. But if you have the ability to avoid them why would you not? Did you not hear about the "Miracle on the Hudson"? (Not to be confused with the "Miracle on the Mojave")
djfl@reddit
I'm trying to figure out if this is a serious post or not. I've been in aviation since the 90s. I've obviously been very concerned with bird strikes for decades. Not once, ever, have I heard or considered "the lives of innocent animals". Not that I or literally everybody I've ever worked with wants animals to be killed unnecessarily, but it's such a weird extra concern here.
I'm curious what your background is and how you're free to have such concerns...? I don't even mean this derogatorily. I'm legitimately curious.
busting_bravo@reddit
The fact that you have never heard anyone else express this concern is part of the problem with how little humans value the other beings we share this rock with. Yes it's a serious post.
Have you never heard about how serial killers start out in early life hurting animals? Have you never had a companion animal that you had a close bond to? Someone who is part of your family, perhaps a dog or a cat? Have you never seen another being, human or otherwise, struggling in obvious pain and felt ... something? for them?
We are in a crisis of a lack of empathy towards everyone else we share this rock with, doesn't matter if it's towards people or other animals, the number of people that don't seem to care about anyone or anything other than themselves is quite frankly alarming. The number of people actively taking pleasure in seeing people in pain and suffering is alarming. We have thought leaders ("influencers") actively telling us that "empathy is a weakness". I disagree, I believe it's a strength to feel empathy for others, and to speak up about it as well.
If this was your dog on the runway and you heard this story, with this level of indifference, wouldn't your blood be boiling? The callous disregard for the life of your beloved friend? What makes your dog any more special or important than these birds though? Aren't they also "just animals"? Is it only just because you love one and don't love the other? Does that mean it's morally ok to just kill anything/anyone you don't love? Surely not. So then, what is the difference here?
I'm not a bird but I can have empathy to the suffering that they might have felt before they died. Yes, I'm going to consider my safety and that of those in my care first in my decisions (Probably wouldn't have swerved away from the person on the runway in DEN for example, as at the speed they were at it would have been more dangerous to do that), but if I have the chance to avoid a bird strike, I will. Or hitting a deer with my car, etc.
christianshbell@reddit
Agreed on all counts. Today it’s a cavalier attitude about plowing through some birds, tomorrow it’s something worse. This isn’t even an ADM issue—this is a lack of mental and emotional maturity.
Could the birds have scattered last minute? Of course. Should you ever take that risk when a go around is free and easy? Of course not.
TheSeansei@reddit
Yep. Tomorrow it's "the traffic ahead is only on the runway a little. I'm sure they'll be clear by the time I land.
OP, cut this out now. You're allowed to go around if you don't feel comfortable with an approach.
Kein-Deutsc@reddit
He’s got 20 hours what do you expect
Yuri909@reddit
The most basic ADM
Kein-Deutsc@reddit
Okay? He asked about going around and the guy said no. I remind you he has 20 hours
m4a785m@reddit
Or could you have initiated a go around, hit the birds, damage the aircraft and now be forced to do a pattern with a broken windshield, possible propeller damage and bird guts on your face while working with a go around.
Or you continue, break the windshield and land in 30 seconds
Crateapa@reddit
Better yet, don't get within 50ft of the ground if animals are visibly on the runway and avoid all of this.
Squawk_0877@reddit (OP)
Sully I am not. Was 20 hours treating chief like a god, you read it right
Meekjagger@reddit
Idk why people are downvoting you, at 20 hours I wouldn’t have had the balls to go against my chief pilot
christianshbell@reddit
“I wouldn’t go against my chief pilot” is a textbook CRM problem—even (especially?) at 20 hours of experience.
If you’ve soloed, you’re PIC and it does not matter who’s sitting right seat: Your airplane, your command. If you’re unsure, go around.
nineyourefine@reddit
I absolutely agree that anytime there is doubt, you go around. I absolutely disagree that a 20 hr student flying with a much more senior pilot like a Chief instructor will always have the courage to take control in that moment, that's why they're still students. Hell, there have been airliners that crashed because the FO is still intimidated by a Captain, and that FO may have thousands of hours and years of experience under their belt yet are afraid to speak up, so the idea that someone as green as OP should be to blame is is crazy. He asked the chief if he should go around, and the Chief said no, continue.
If I was the CFI in the right seat, the moment he asked "Should I go around" I'd have pushed the power up (As I've done in the past with students who asked the question). If you're asking, it means we need to go around and we'll talk about why it was or wasn't needed. I blame the Chief here, not the student. The student asked if he should go around, the chief told him to continue.
From your couch you can say "Well blah blah this is decision making 101 and safety and xyz" but in the moment, OP the student was unsure, and the CFI gave him an instruction. OP took that much more experienced persons instruction and went with it.
TheCenci@reddit
Yeah just plowing into a bunch of birds when it was avoidable is pretty fucked up. The callous disregard for the lives of animals from a lot of humans is something I'll never understand.
DecoyOne@reddit
Don’t forget that they both wish they had filmed it. For fun.
Who would actually want to watch that? That should be some sort of IRL personality test.
Kein-Deutsc@reddit
I think they assumed the birds would clear. I don’t think either of them wanted this to happen.
TheSeansei@reddit
OP knew it would happen and wanted to go around but ultimately didn't. Now he's telling the story as if it's funny.
Kein-Deutsc@reddit
Yeah at 20 hours you’re still relying on the person in the right seat. The stage check bro probably thought they would clear.
Idk it doesn’t seem funny but also idk if it shouldn’t necessarily. It’s a good story
cwc80@reddit
There’s a lot of people on here second-guessing decisions made by an experienced Chief Pilot. A general of thumb on short final with birds in the way is that it’s better to have a bird strike while your engine is at low power and you can easily glide to a safe touchdown, than to do a go-around and still risk hitting the birds, but with an engine at full power and possibly not being able to make an emergency landing on the runway. Ultimately, none of us other than the OP were there, and we shouldn’t be passing judgment either way.
pattherat@reddit
Your chief is a psychopath, I would change schools.
DependentTaste283@reddit
I'm a CFI. I once had a student instinctively pitch up abruptly to avoid a couple of birds flying across our path on short final, less than 100' above the touch down zone. With no time to talk or think, I forced the yoke back down to prevent us stalling, which likely would've been fatal at that altitude. By then the birds were passed so I landed rather than going around (quite easily and safely).
What I wish I had done is execute a go-around because that's the behavior I want to model for my students any time / any reason you become destabilized on short final. Unfortunately the habit I have developed is to salvage bad landings when possible (which is almost always the case).
I'm glad this worked out for you guys. My take on your scenario is if you had time to think and ask the instructor whether to go-around, then you had time to execute a go-around, and that is generally the safer decision if the landing is in question for any reason.
SumilatSumilat@reddit
I don't fly planes so forgive the ignorant question, but to my understanding, wouldn't pulling the yoke back cause the plane to pitch up harder, thus making a stall more likely?
DependentTaste283@reddit
Yes. I didn’t write clearly. Just edited to say I pushed the yoke forward. Thanks.
Squawk_0877@reddit (OP)
appreciate the take, the yoke pull save you described is basically the version where my story ends badly, fair point on if you have time to ask you have time to go around, thats the one that stuck
DependentTaste283@reddit
No one flies without some learning experiences Sounds like you’re doing fine - keep it up!
Squawk_0877@reddit (OP)
appreciate the take, the yoke pull save you described is basically the version where my story ends badly, fair point on if you have time to ask you have time to go around, thats the one that stuck
bailaowai@reddit
You should learn to act like a PIC. Turning to the instructor in the right seat to ask what to do is not that.
Tasty_Impression_959@reddit
A good friend of mine has a horn on his biplane. Works wonders with big birds and other critters on the runway that are too lazy to move out. Reminds me of the recent unauthorized walk a dude took on an active runway and got splattered by a passenger jet. Doubtful there were any feathers left on the jet's engine cowling after impact.
Ok-Distance-426@reddit
I'd have failed you for the check ride. Here's why: As PIC, you have control of the airplane, and you must make good decisions. Aeronautical Decision Making - ADM - is what keeps you from bending the plane, killing yourself, killing others. Flying through birds is not smart and damages the aircraft, as you experienced.
The Chief FI should be fired for telling you to fly through the flock. That was inherently stupid and shows he has become extremely complacent and makes poor decisions himself. He should not be doing stage checks, nor should he be instructing students.
An airplane is not a battering ram, and what you did was dangerous. Deduction from your Luck Bag.
This statement troubles me: "I leave the GoPro in the bag because hes the guy I had been lying about." There is no room in aviation for lying. Drop that bad habit immediately, before you become a statistic. The behavior you describe is part of hazardous attitudes: Arrogance, which is manifested in Anti-Authority. That's hazardous attitude number one. The rest are: Impulsivity, Invulnerability, Macho, Resignation.
There are many AOPA Air Safety Institute videos you can watch that display what happens when pilots with the above attitudes get into trouble, and it never ends well. Based on your description of the events that occurred, I would not endorse you for solo flights until you had ground instruction on hazardous attitudes while flying. The Chief should join you. Any flight instructor's primary role is to keep you both alive. What's to be his next trick?
shakebakelizard@reddit
If you're doing pilot training, just go in with a "Every flight is on the GoPro" policy. If they don't agree to that, find another flight school or instructor.
duckbilllunchbox@reddit
This seems like so many red flags on everyone’s part.
weggaan_weggaat@reddit
Shame indeed. Definitely keep tabs on him.
Every_Description873@reddit
Chief pilot is a psychopath!
Every_Description873@reddit
Horrible. Dont kill wildlife. Karma.
GoobScoob@reddit
I would fire that chief if I owned that flight school. Completely unnecessary risk, and also really a bad precedent to teach a student pilot. Instead of learning that it’s good to go around you’ve learned it’s ok to plow through a flock of birds.
The lesson here is that anybody can fk up, no matter how experienced and well respected they are. Remember this when you are flying a jet in a few years.
fly-guy@reddit
To be honest, id rather go through the flock of birds while landing with low power than to through the same flock during a go around with a nose high attitude at full power.
In the second scenario an engine failure is a vastly more dangerous situation and you know birds will, when startled, fly up right into the go around path. In the big jets 99% of the PICs would continue to land.
So I think both made a fine decision, the student for clarifying intentions in a situation which is new (and 20hrs is still low enough not to have the required airmanship to confidently decide) and the instructor by trading known damage but safer scenario for possibly avoiding damage but if not a far worse situation.
GoobScoob@reddit
I’d rather just not fly through them at all. There’s a difference between a bird or two and a whole flock. If you’ve got time to have a conversation about whether or not to go around then you definitely have plenty of time to go around. There is no benefit to risking it when you can just go around and avoid it.
Imagine how that would sound in an NTSB report? The pilots saw the large flock of birds, talked about it, and elected to continue. Absolutely stupid.
99% of pilots would not just plow through a large visible flock of birds. One or two birds- yeah, we do it every day and it’s an acceptable and necessary risk. A whole flock??? Just go around man
fly-guy@reddit
That flock is apt to start flying as soon as you increase throttle and produce more noise. And when they start flying they go up and maybe straight at you.
There is no guarantee you will overfly them.
Just go through them, it's the safety option. Especially if it's is a larger flock.
No-End2540@reddit
Seems the CFI should have explained why when in the ground as a teaching moment. OP didn’t say if he did, but it seems he didn’t.
fly-guy@reddit
True, after landing, during the debriefing it should have been explained.
moduli-retain-banana@reddit
Please name the flight school so I can avoid y'all with a 10 foot pole
FriskyFritos@reddit
Please name the student that I would’ve dropped like a hot potato
Bepus@reddit
Student sees birds, asks if he should go around, you would say no and then blame the student?
djfl@reddit
Not a flight instructor. But I'd hope that flight instructors in general would want something like "if you aren't 100% certain what to do, err on the side of safety". This is my hope, but I am frequently disappointed.
ce402@reddit
I’d drop them for lying to me about getting permission to setup their GoPro for my boss.
Logical_Tart_3219@reddit
“Beware wake separation: lighter craft than us, wake separation not necessary…”
oandroido@reddit
Who’s the PIC?
winema425@reddit
Pretty dumb thing to say to a 20 hour student. I hope you don’t instruct
oandroido@reddit
That wasn't directed toward a student.
KITTYONFYRE@reddit
... that's the point
RollUpLights@reddit
I think the issue is the lying about having permission to film
Nice_Cellist_7595@reddit
Not the student lol
twolfhawk@reddit
Sounds like you learned at ATP. Won't take responsibility for your student.
KITTYONFYRE@reddit
this is referring to the lying about the gopro, not about the chief saying continue
Raxater@reddit
That's sick. And not the cool kind of sick. Killing animals just because it "looks cool" is psychopathic behaviour.
baritone_mike@reddit
50 feet from the birds? I don’t know that I would have gone around either at that point. Would much rather hit a flock of big birds on the ground than in the air when they all decide to scatter as you cram full power. I absolutely would have went around well before that when I saw them though or if I thought I would be able to out climb them.
UnfortunateSnort12@reddit
It took way too long to find this answer. Worst case in this situation is a go around and catastrophic damage to the aircraft during the go around. I’d rather be on the ground with damage than on the go….
daveindo@reddit
Yup. It’s hard to judge this entire situation without being there but if they couldn’t outrun/climb the birds should the birds choose the worst possible escape path, then getting on the ground and chopping up some birds is the right choice.
Murky-Baby-3003@reddit
If chief wasn’t there, we’d at least have video to review.
ProfessionalAir6150@reddit
My first thought as well. And probably the reason the Chief advised to continue landing.
fly-guy@reddit
I wouldn't. Rather suffer damage in a low power, low nose situation than full power, nose high.
WhenInDoubtGoAround@reddit
One time, I was flying with a student when, on approach, she spotted a flock of birds sitting on the runway. Without hesitation, she initiated a go-around. Once we were levelled off, I asked her why she had decided to go around. She answered immediately, with all the seriousness only a young, low-time student could have: “The birds had the active runway.”
I don’t think I’ve laughed that hard in recent years.
Slipslopkingbop@reddit
Gross.
Malcolm2theRescue@reddit
I don’t see any damage. Just ick. Mark your instructor clean it up.
techdaddy321@reddit
Maybe but there is blood on the top of the cowl, so a bird either went through the prop and hit the nose scoop, or was diced up by the prop first. Even with no visible damage they're paying some shop time to get it inspected, and probably bird parts/mist washed out of the cylinder fins and the wing vents. At least it was at landing speed and low throttle so kinetic energy was kept to a minimum.
Malcolm2theRescue@reddit
More cleaning work for CFI.
LimitComplex9486@reddit
Shit pilot and chief pilot. Absolutely the worst decision you could have made. Grow some balls, go around, it isn’t that hard.
Kein-Deutsc@reddit
He’s got 20 hours I hardly put this on him
LimitComplex9486@reddit
You don’t even need to have a single hour to know hitting a flock of birds is a terrible and dangerous decision.
Kein-Deutsc@reddit
That’s hardly the point. It’s not a question of hitting the birds or not, it’s a question whether or not they wanted to bet on the birds clearing.
It was a bad decision. I remember being at 20 hours and not having my own sense of being a pic at all. I just did what the person in the right seat told me and trusted it.
Once again I do not put this on the student. The CFI definitely should have told him to go around but idk maybe he got lucky before with it who knows
m4a785m@reddit
At such a short distance away on short final, I would have continued, at least on a jet. Hard to tell without being there in the moment.
At that point I’d much rather damage the plane and ensure a landing, instead of attempting a go around and still likely hit the flock, possibly damage the engines and now limp a damaged airplane, and go through a whole emergency procedure/shut down to end up landing again or possibly diverting due to runway limitations with one engine.
But in the case of a C172, you have much more maneuverability so it’s hard to tell without really being there.
NaFenn@reddit
So, imagine you're back in the aircraft at 50', you go around - the flock lifts, and the engine or aircraft sustains damage which impacts its ability to fly.
Whats the risk of that vs the risk of continuing the landing, and possibly sustaining damage but the plane is on the ground?
I'm not saying I would gun for a flock for the sake of it, quite the opposite - but it's a risk assessment. Theres usually not a right answer, but there is always a least risk answer
Rusty1031@reddit
“Tower there’s some birds on the approach.”
“Roger. Continue.”
Soggy_Vast230@reddit
OP, stop worry about filming and fly the damn airplane. You have 20 hours. You don’t need to be worried about filming anything, you should be worried about learning to fly.
PS, no one is going to be impressed by some go pro footage of you doing a few laps in the pattern in a skychicken.
NYPuppers@reddit
Straight up lying to your instructor (or anyone in aviation) is insane behavior. That's how people get fired, injured or die. At the very least you are setting your instructor up for a problem... it won't be you that gets in trouble.
May I never cross paths with you in the air.
Being_a_Mitch@reddit
You're a fuckin asshat for lying to your instructors about getting the camera cleared. If the chief really hated cameras and found out, he could absolutely chew a CFI out about it. Your lying could absolutely get someone in serious trouble with their boss.
Have some common courtsey. I don't think cameras are a big deal, but lying about it absolutely is. I'd drop you in a heartbeat if I found out about that.
LaloMcNombres@reddit
As a pilot and an animal lover, I’d never fly through a flock of birds- for obvious reasons.
It’s dangerous for you, and just a shitty thing to do. It happens of course, and you shouldn’t jeopardize flight safety to avoid, but if you can you should. What the actual fuck is wrong with that chief pilot?
SubarcticFarmer@reddit
If I'm reading it right they were at like 50 ft. They may have hit the birds anyway going around and didn't know what they would actually do. I would never intentionally fly through birds but it's a lot more nuanced than "go around is better" with birds vs something like a deer that can't fly.
Recent-Phrase9784@reddit
It’s written with quite a bit of ambiguity.. he writes on short final 50 ft from runway, about at the flare point (aka being able to touch down shortly) but then narrates being able to deliberate with the chief whether to go around or not so very hard to tell without video footage or actually being there.. my suspicion is he over exaggerated how close he actually was when initially noticing the birds, therefore he should have had plenty of time to recognize the need for a go around and then execute one. However, if he truly was as close as he said he was, then as several large jet pilots previously stated the best action would be to land instead of risking a high nose low energy and high power state and adding potential for engine failure while in the region of reverse command and having not enough energy in the airport environment to make the impossible turn but too much energy to land safely depending on how long the runway is. Maybe I went too deep in but as I haven’t soloed yet and have a mere 36 hours compared to the sky gods my instinct says there inconsistency in the telling of this story so an accurate rebuilding is not easy so depending upon the true circumstances the answer would be different depending which set of circumstances took place. That said if it was too close to the birds to call a go around then the sky gods continue to land safely and get aircraft inspected write up squawks on the ground which was the decision made would be correct, however if the other scenario happened and op grossly exaggerated how close they were to the birds and they had oodles and oodles of time to deliberate and execute a go around, then in the famous words of mortal combat “you chose unwisely” but were lucky enough to land safely and walk away from the situation with a damaged plane and hopefully more experience and some lessons learned that can later turn to wisdom.
Crateapa@reddit
I'm not getting down to 50ft to begin with if I see a flock of large birds on the runway. Why even get in that position?
LaloMcNombres@reddit
I read it that they were “sitting” there, as in on the runway. Birds will never fly “up” to get away of course. But, I wasn’t there and perhaps this was the best (safest) course of action.
SubarcticFarmer@reddit
Birds don't fly "up" when they have a better option, but on the ground "up" is the only alternative to horizontal.
I do agree that in flight they tend to tuck and dive, but I've hit birds that took off into my path as well as tried to land on a runway during my takeoff roll before.
Bl4ckSh33p410@reddit
Stupid
limes_huh@reddit
Probably fake too.
Rum07@reddit
Great to hear a psychopath is closer to becoming a pilot... Collected good karma there buddy, be safe ;), or not.
falcopilot@reddit
Would have been a great opportunity to ask. "Hey, I do have a camera, and was wondering if I could record my flights so I could review them."
Face88888888@reddit
Too bad you can’t attach gifs here.
Perfect opportunity for Sean Connery scattering the birds with his umbrella in Indiana Jones The last Crusade.
cavedwellers@reddit
Took-atook-atook-atook!
(I suddenly remembered my Charlemagne)
Figit090@reddit
I have quoted this verbatim out loud, many times.
Proton_Energy_Pill@reddit
Lucky you didn't get one through the windscreen.
ManagedSpeed340@reddit
This is the universe saying do not become an influencer with that go pro. Jokes aside please next time go around if it pops in your mind the question is already answered. Congrats on passing.
michaeltward@reddit
He knew about the camera, there is no way he didn’t.
As for the birds. You are PIC. If you want to go around just do it don’t ask for permission. An instructor may tell you that you didn’t need to but any that chides you for doing so is an idiot.
Avi8tor_Zeus@reddit
Your “chief” would not make it at my company. If I have someone in the cockpit with me and they say, “hmmm, should we go around?”
GO AROUND! Would be coming next…
techdaddy321@reddit
I don't think this was a teaching moment for the chief at all based on this story, he's oblivious to his role in it. It might be a career move though whenever the school owner sees this one.
Avi8tor_Zeus@reddit
Probably so…not sure when the owner will see this
gatorav8r@reddit
And you did. Success!
unisonic2025@reddit
Sometimes it’s better to just continue and hit the birds especially when close to the ground. Land and call it a day if there is actually a bird strike. On the other hand if the birds were there and you were turning final maybe then go around.
LADR_Official@reddit
To be blunt - fuck you dude. You shouldn't be a pilot
Same to your chief pilot. This kind of attitude is why he has 'thousands of hours' and is CFIing at some (presumably shitty) pilot mill still.
What kind of person lies to their instructor(s) like that??
Bird strikes happen (I've had 2), but just callously murdering animals you could safely/easily avoid is legitimately insane behavior
Rush_1_1@reddit
I'm always curious as to if people that post like this get caught by those they "lie about" at their school since so many people use reddit :p
Kinda doxxing yourself with this story bud
Odd_Entertainment471@reddit
You should ALWAYS be spring loaded to go around. I even brief the go around procedures if VFR same as missed approach if ifr. It’s IMPORTANT to be in that mind set.
New-IncognitoWindow@reddit
He 100% already knows you’re using a GoPro.
glytxh@reddit
To shreds, you say?
TheGacAttack@reddit
And the bird's wife?
Danger-zone247@reddit
Then clean off the blood after the flight right???
TheGacAttack@reddit
You're going to want to get your integrity in check. That's going to burn you-- maybe not lying about the camera, but my guess is this represents one of many lies you're comfortable telling.
If I knew you were lying to instructors about an "approval" you were never given, I would blacklist you from flying with me. That's an iceberg tip to me.
Malcolm2theRescue@reddit
So, another feather in your cap!
veloace@reddit
I don’t think you should be a pilot.
Mynameisdiehard@reddit
What fucking psychopath. Those are living creatures. You don't just go through them because it's funny. Next time you should also learn your own lesson. Don't ask. Just go around. You already knew the right answer and that's why you asked. Hesitation will get you and others killed.
ghjm@reddit
People are questioning the instructor's decision to land rather than go round, but let's not forget that birds' panic reaction is to take flight. If the go round would have passed right above them then a bird strike might have been inevitable, in which case the instructor's decision was between doing a landing rollout with a possibly damaged wing, or doing a takeoff, pattern, landing and rollout with a possibly damaged wing. If I'm going to have a bird strike, I'd certainly prefer having it on the ground.
Proper_Hedgehog3579@reddit
Welp, neither of you will do that again. At least not on purpose.
president_fisto@reddit
It was on purpose because the chief is a sick piece of shit who got off on killing those birds, neither should be allowed to fly again.
goatfuckersupreme@reddit
Yeah, he was jerking off while it happened, too. What a freak.
president_fisto@reddit
Eat a dick dude. Just because you think it’s funny to splatter a bunch of birds and risk killing everyone involved doesn’t mean you’re clever, it just means you’re a fucking idiot
tranh4@reddit
Thought this was r/shittyaskflying for a sec.
No-Improvement3801@reddit
U sir are not a smart decision maker. If u thought go around, shoulda went go around.
DisregardLogan@reddit
So many things wrong in this post idk where to begin
sennais1@reddit
JFC. Mate you need to get your priorities in check.
jeremiahfelt@reddit
The take away lesson here is you don't ask to go around. You say "Going around." and you go around.
chuckop@reddit
Birds will always dive to avoid a collision. A go around would have been the right move.
Lucky no bird came through the windscreen.
baritone_mike@reddit
I have seen hawks on several occasions climb to avoid a landing plane.
Also these birds were on the runway, unless they dig a hole it is pretty hard for them to dive.
chuckop@reddit
Apologies, I miss the part saying they were on the runway.
m4a785m@reddit
I don’t know who regurgitates and teaches this BS in aviation. Birds do whatever the hell they want when scared.
dnbdawg@reddit
lots of comments here seem to have missed “20 hours” lol
MaybeBowtie@reddit
Honestly if you were about to flare, hitting the birds rather than doing a go around is a better option. It’s better to be on the ground with a damaged airplane than in the air with a damaged airplane
R2robot@reddit
I actually LOL'd at this, but then I felt so bad about the birds. :(
PieMan2k@reddit
For future, when in doubt go around. If you have to ask, just do it.
RobinMaczka@reddit
I'm a pilot in France and I remember a REX (ASRS equivalent I guess) about a student with instructor and another student as passenger who DIED because of ONE fucking bird badly crashed in the wing...
EliteEthos@reddit
Why does your flake say PPL when you don’t hold that license?
Frost_907@reddit
Terrible chief pilot and terrible student. There should have been no question about calling for a go-around if you have a flock of birds in your way. Chief pilot is 100% wrong on telling you to continue and you were wrong for not raising a concern to that.
You are also the type of student I would never trust as an instructor. If you’re lying and saying you got approval to do something when you actually didn’t, then what else are you lying about? If I were your instructor and I learned of this I promise you would never receive a solo endorsement from me.
OP I would seriously recommend that you do a bit of self reflection if your goal is a career pilot. If you keep up this attitude you’re gonna have major problems in the future.
m4a785m@reddit
At such a short distance away on short final, I would have continued, at least on a jet. Hard to tell without being there in the moment.
At that point I’d much rather damage the plane and ensure a landing, instead of attempting a go around and still likely hit the flock, possibly damage the engines and now limp a damaged airplane, and go through a whole emergency procedure/shut down to end up landing again or possibly diverting due to runway limitations with one engine.
But in the case of a C172, you have much more maneuverability so it’s hard to tell without really being there.
Prof_Slappopotamus@reddit
Yea. "Birds always descend". Unfortunately that doesn't work when you're descending into them and the only thing below them is asphalt.
Over-Potato689@reddit
Yeah that would have been a go around for me dawg
SubarcticFarmer@reddit
On short final (if I'm reading this right you were already over the runway) it is not nearly as cut and dry as something like a deer.
The problem is birds fly and they may scatter as you approach causing the go around to actually lead to the impact. The difference is that hitting them when you're landing and close to the ground anyway means that you do an inspection and some paperworkm. Hitting them during the go around has a lot higher risk factor involved.
My honest opinion is the chief made the right call.
320sim@reddit
They were just watching the birds sitting there as they were descending. There was plenty of time to go around. You’ll also notice that birds don’t fly straight up. They can’t. You will out-climb large birds especially with a 50ft margin
Crusoebear@reddit
If you are planning on doing this as a profession & especially at the airlines - you need to stop this habit of lying. I’ve been doing this for a long time and the one constant over the years is people get fired for lying. You can make honest mistakes and usually at worst you might get retrained …but lying is usually unrecoverable. So stop being that guy.
Also that might have been a large flock of small birds but I kind of doubt it was “huge birds”. In over 40 years of flying like most pilots I’ve had occasional, accidental run-ins with various sized birds. Small ones tend to leave smears like what we see in your photos. Conversely, I’ve hit large geese at night in a similar Cessna on final approach (ie- slow) and they destroyed the leading edge all the way back thru- the spar & totaled one flap. They had to put a whole new wing on the plane.
travbart@reddit
Were they guinea fowl? Are you in Africa?
FriskyFritos@reddit
Bro stop bringing a go pro to your lessons. For you instructors sake.
Due_Commission_9354@reddit
Maybe AI needs to take over 🤦♂️
738lazypilot@reddit
The chief made the right call without knowing more about the exact location of the plane and birds.
Going around when there's a risk the birds might be in the go around path it's a risk not to be taken lightly. In fact, as far as I remember, after a 737 hit a flock of birds trying to go around from said birds, the aircraft crashed on the runway after a dual engine failure (not loss of lives but loss of airframe). Boeing recommendation after the accident is to fly through the flock of birds, as there's less risk for the plane and engines while at low power during an approach than at full thrust for a go around.
Of course there's a difference between a Cessna and a 737, but the same applies, if you hit a bird with the propeller at Max rpm going around, you might lose your engine or you can damage other part of the aircraft, and if you're going around, you might have left being you the only piece of land suitable to land.
So fellow pilots out there thinking that going around to avoid a flock of birds it's always the sensible choice. Be very careful with your decision making, if there's a chance the birds will cross your go around path, then the best option might be to go through the birds, as that causes less damage to the engine/plane and you still have the runway in front of you.
ywgflyer@reddit
You also don't want to be doing any kind of unplanned maneuver close to the ground to avoid birds, either. There's a chance the birds will do damage, but if you drive it into the ground while trying to avoid a flock of sparrows, the ground will kill you.
find-dani@reddit
I’m a newly licensed pilot and recently was a passenger in a pretty similar situation, although the geese did start flying and didn’t get hit. A couple of them flew forward instead of out, and as we were in the flare we were closing in fast on one bird, but the bird finally turned left and out of the way right before we would have hit it. I wondered the same thing: go around? Would it be worse to decide to go around when you see the birds on the runway aren’t moving and then they start flying and you hit them while higher above the runway? Or is that not a risk because there’s no way the birds would climb as fast as the plane? I’m sure some of this depends on the plane and the conditions, but I’m curious what others think is the best move. Continue landing and hope they get out of the way, or go around and risk hitting them in the air?
boobooaboo@reddit
Passed the stage check…yeesh
Throwawayyacc22@reddit
Congrats on the stage check pass, I’ve hit some birds myself!
546833726D616C@reddit
A good pilot eats what he kills.
ATrainDerailReturns@reddit
This place sounds like a nightmare and everyone here is lucky to be alive
“Just continue through the birds they will fly away” is classic invulnerability it’ll never happen to me mindset
Lying to your instructors is classic anti authority
Passing this tier of ADM on a stage check is wild
Joeyheads@reddit
Your intuition was right on the go around, but it looks like the plane faired okay this time around, so you’ll have a good story.
The big birds typically do move (don’t count on it, but anecdotally they do), but with your power setting being lower for landing and the plane being a bit quieter, they may have been less eager.
TheSeansei@reddit
How is it a good story? "I made a reckless decision and killed some animals."
Joeyheads@reddit
Because it’s a story we can learn from?
Kein-Deutsc@reddit
My dad has dozens of story’s of his time in Alaska where he made a bad decision and nearly sent him and his plane to heaven. Even though the moment was treacherous, the story is good. Not all good stories are “wow that’s so cool that you did that” type stories. I find that most good stories are learning experience type stories.
Squawk_0877@reddit (OP)
Apparently mine didnt get the memo about scattering, lower power tracks, they didnt even glance up
Apuonbus@reddit
I had strong words to a first officer once after he swerved just after touchdown to try and avoid a flock of birds.
I told him if he had gone off the runway and the birds flew off he (and myself) would look really stupid even more so if there was no damage to the aircraft. I'd rather he hit them then people know there was a flock of birds...
rotardy@reddit
I would not have gone around either.
Flyguy115@reddit
You know there is a song that clearly explains your options. “You can Always go around”
andrewrbat@reddit
Going around for birds is something that could go either way. You could go around and avoid a bird strike. But I have had several instances where the birds take a sudden climb or descent or turn right when i think i know what they are doing. You might initiate a go around and spook them with the engine noise (or they just do unpredictable bird things) causing them to turn all directions, and you hit them anyway. And now you departed your stable approach. If you lose the engine you have to pitch for best glide and maneuver low to the ground.
When i was instructing i taught that you should not make abrupt or aggressive maneuvers to miss birds when at or below tpa or on approach. The risk of an upset, stall/spin, etc low to the ground wasn’t worth the risk, when hitting birds is usually not that big of a deal. You may lose an engine, if things go really poorly but you should be in glide range anyway.
Tuhks@reddit
It sounds like you identified the birds on the runway early, and could/should have gone around. That being said, once you were 50 feet from the runway, I can understand committing to the landing, as you could land with no engine at that point, whereas if you went full power you risk a bird strike while climbing. Maybe the chief saw the same risk when you first saw the birds. Maybe he hesitated. Hard to say without being there.
ItsReallyLebron@reddit
Lived and learned. Lived to tell the tale. Learned to do whats right next time (go around) regardless of others opinion lol
Sad-Umpire6000@reddit
Plan A is a go around. If everything is just right, then go to Plan B and land.
MaterialDull9480@reddit
Oh the Humanity!
nogirlnoproblem@reddit
This is a great lesson for you on multiple levels:
zemelb@reddit
Why are you bothering to lie about filming? I record all my flights. I didn’t ask, I told my CFI “I’m gonna start filming my flights so I can rewatch them and retain the info better than when I’m focused on flying the plane” and he said “k cool”. This sounds like a dumb thing to lie about.
PrimaryAlternative7@reddit
If there's a lesson here for you, it's to speak up or just take over, even with the deep experience gradient in the flight deck. Guy sounds like an idiot. Who would purposefully plow into a flock of birds in a SE Piston when there's no safety issue preventing a go around?
runnymountain@reddit
Remember to log a NASA report.
whys_this_so_hard@reddit
…for a bird strike?
runnymountain@reddit
Don't underestimate birds, they have very powerful attorneys.
nogirlnoproblem@reddit
If OP is anywhere near Philly then he might be in trouble. There’s a prominent attorney practicing bird law up there
whys_this_so_hard@reddit
Bird law is all powerful.
brucebrowde@reddit
Birds aren't real.
runnymountain@reddit
Earth is flat.
abl0ck0fch33s3@reddit
As it turns out NASA reports are used to improve safety using real world lessons learned, not just to avoid legal action by the FAA.
Pale-Coconut-6999@reddit
Your mailman will think you’re really cool
annist0910@reddit
Poor birds
TheAnonymousPilot@reddit
Just curious based on your post history- did this happen in the past or was it recent? Were you able to finish off your PVT training?
If anything, I hope your CFI showed you the good ol' Ken Dravis song. Remember, "you can always go around."
Classclown102@reddit
“Shame we didn’t have a camera in there” 🍒🎂
BER001@reddit
When they say SCT 015 on the METAR. It meant bird parts per windshield I guess.
Kein-Deutsc@reddit
Reminds me of that family guy scene with the jet ski and the dolphins
OzrielArelius@reddit
safer to plow through em
Kein-Deutsc@reddit
That’s crazy. I did a go around for deer once. Less of a choice there. I’ve learned that animals don’t have the best instincts when it comes to motor vehicles. Congrats on passing though
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
So I was a 20hr student doing my first stage check, the chief himself sat in the right seat. Big stakes for me, I was nervous as hell.
Funny side note, normally I ran a GoPro every lesson, not exactly approved, I always told my CFIs id cleared it with management, nobody ever bothered to check. Chief shows up that morning, I leave the GoPro in the bag because hes the guy I had been lying about. Shouldve been my first clue the universe was setting something up.
We start doing patterns, first lap, im on short final right around sunrise, and right where im supposed to flare there is a flock of huge birds just sitting there, maybe ten of them, big ones.
Im looking at this thinking ok they'll scatter, they have ears, they can hear an engine, plus the chief is sitting right there, thousands of hours, if this is bad he will say something.
I turn to him and ask go around? because at this point we are maybe 50 ft and the birds are doing absolutely nothing. He calmly goes no, keep landing
Reader, the birds did not scatter.
I bowled a perfect strike, we skip the touch and go, call for an inspection, taxi off, shut down, I get out and start taking pictures of the carnage on my phone (attached).
Chief looks at the cowling, looks at the prop, looks at me, and goes "shame we didnt have a camera in there, that wouldve been some great footage."
Passed the stage check though.
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