"No Healthcare. Undrinkable Water | Millions of Americans are Living in Third-World USA." Think if you start cutting off millions of Veterans from food, healthcare, and it's God's will they die, it's going to get a bit dicey if they get themselves organized and head to DC . . .
Posted by ejpusa@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 90 comments
I follow academia. There are several Ivy League academics who are saying, "the country needs a revolution", and they hang out at Yale and Harvard.
I wonder if they are looking at the current administration, "Maybe this is our chance?" This is it. We'll take a chance.
Thomas Jefferson would cheer this on, and Steve Bannon. Both are big into revolution for a country's survival and to move society forward. Even from the ashes of collapse, a new Phoenix does arise.
ElephantContent8835@reddit
Eventually these fucking idiots will have had enough, rise up, and slay the rich and everyone in government (and hopefully all religious leaders too). But they won’t do it as long as they have an X Box and Sunday night football.
jandzero@reddit
Option one: Feudalism. The currency collapses, the oligarchs fight for control of everything remaining, and all that remains are the very rich and the very poor. The economy and political landscape are dominated by competition among rival oligarchic families. Russia after the fall of the USSR.
Option two: Fundamentalist revolution. A heavily armed but well-organized redneck army of god emerges, empties the cities, and purges the unfaithful. The economy returns to an agrarian model, and the political landscape is dominated by competing religious factions. Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, or the world of The Handmaid's Tale.
Option three: Balkanization: The country breaks into regional powers, which immediately begin fighting each other for resources and territory. The Balkans after the collapse of the USSR. Less likely, since the cultural divisions are more urban/rural than regional.
We're probably headed for an oligarchy, in which things get shittier for most people, but the population remains in denial, followed by a theocracy when things get bad enough due to mass starvation, unemployment, and homelessness.
Royal_Register_9906@reddit
“Steve bannon” nope nope nope. We aren’t gonna put that guy in a positive light on this subreddit. He doesn’t get to cheer on a “revolution”. He is part of the problem.
ArugulaAcrobatic4018@reddit
You're giving him too much credit. Bannon doesn't actually believe in anything.
Zzzzzzzzzxyzz@reddit
He's ick 🤢🤮🤢
JerryNomo@reddit
Does the american society not call such people out for being self responsible? Where is the problem then? People get what they deserve. At least from the perspective of the society.
I onced loved to go to the US. Nowadays this country is a shitshow and it breaks my heart to see people living this way, while there are a few wealthy people who could feed the whole world.
ejpusa@reddit (OP)
Capitalism evolved from a way to lift people out of poverty to now surviving. Kill or be killed.
Don’t think that was supposed to happen.
Current-Code@reddit
Capitalism most certainly did not aim at lifting people out of poverty.
And it did not.
What it did, does and will do, is using uninvested money to extract value using workers.
It did bring value to "some" people, but for the vast majority of workers this was hell.
It only changed through the struggles fought by the workers, through unions, through riots, strikes and social democracies.
Capitalism, left alone without the redistributive actions of the state, concentrate wealth.
It does not, and does not aim at lifting people out of poverty.
It aims at maximizing output and reducing the cost input.
People are in the cost input column.
ejpusa@reddit (OP)
By way of GPT-5.5
Yes — you can accurately say that China’s shift toward a more market-oriented economy helped lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, though scholars debate the exact wording and causes.
A balanced version would be:
“After China’s economic reforms and opening-up policies beginning in 1978 under Deng Xiaoping, the introduction of market mechanisms, private enterprise, and foreign investment contributed to one of the largest reductions in poverty in human history.”
The World Bank states:
“Since 1978, the beginning of China’s reform and opening up period, GDP growth has averaged over 9 percent a year, lifting almost 800 million people out of extreme poverty…” 
Another strong reference from the World Bank speech on China’s reforms says:
“China’s reform and opening up program… was the foundation for the rapid growth that allowed people to lift themselves out of poverty.” 
If you want to avoid ideological arguments, “market reforms” or “market-oriented reforms” is often more precise than simply “capitalism,” because China still maintained strong state control while opening markets and encouraging private business.
Current-Code@reddit
Oh, if Chat GPT disagrees then !
You may have missed my point regarding the role of state before countering with one of the most state centric economy in the world.
ejpusa@reddit (OP)
Capitalism pulled millions out of poverty. It's run its course. But it did the job.
Current-Code@reddit
Don't get me wrong, I am in no way anti-capitalist, it's a powerful economic tool.
All I am saying it that it did not pulled millions out of poverty, it create a lot of wealth, yes, but for it to be redistributed AND pulling people out of poverty, you need the sate, and not "any" form of government would do.
You see right now in the US what "any" type of government can do to the people, do you feel that people are getting out of poverty at the moment ?
And yet, capitalism is at an all time high.
Economic growth, which capitalism make possible, will never redistribute its wealth by itself, you need "something" to force the hand of the capitalists / owners / employers.
That thing can be the state, unions, a mix of both, certainly not "the invisible hand of the market".
ejpusa@reddit (OP)
You are disagreeing with every economics professor in the world. Capitalism pulled millions of peasants out of poverty in China.
But it's run its course. Needs a reboot. Doi Moi is it.
https://www.tiktok.com/@howtotiktokshop101/video/7637902483095915789?_r=1&_t=ZT-96JDcNEqDhF
JerryNomo@reddit
While we are still not able to count the damages it did to our environmen ans mental health.
ejpusa@reddit (OP)
These are the trade-offs. We will figure it out. Do not underestimate the human brain. It can surprise you, occasionally.
JerryNomo@reddit
Well. Good luck to you than. I hope goodwill will win in the end.
ejpusa@reddit (OP)
We all have to be optimistic or accept that humans 1.0 will be vaporized by AI, and humans 2.0 can give it a shot.
AI will not allow us to destroy the planet. So we probably will have to shift gears very soon.
11SomeGuy17@reddit
Lol, veterans would never organize against the US government. They fall into 2 groups, either the ones who are super pro peace but don't think violence is ever a good solution thanks to what they saw at war, or people who thought "Oh boy, killing people is fun! I Love America and will defend it with my last breath!". That's it, neither of those would do anything more than do a little protest march. Source: I know plenty of veterans and current military personnel. They mostly fall in those 2 boxes. The last box are super America loving conspiracy theorists who'd still defend this country with their last breath, but think the government is ran by some kind of secret group out to harvest organs from white babies or something, their conspiracies typically make little sense.
ejpusa@reddit (OP)
Once they eliminate all Veterans benefits, Elon's dream, SNAP, too, you may be surprised at what hungry war veterans, who need to feed their families, may do.
Will they shoot Americans in DC, absoluelry yes, will they shoot down Vetreans, I would not bet on it. I am finding NO veterans that are Trump supporters; he seems to think that they are all "losers", I believe that is his quote.
11SomeGuy17@reddit
Literally every veteran I've met loves him, or at least prefers him to anyone else available. The few that don't like him I've seen (not met) are those super peaceful would never hurt a fly types, typically they just get super religious and use the structure of religion to pacify themselves and give themselves the structure they lacked in civilian life. Would the military shoot down veterans? Absolutely they would. They've done so historically anytime things have happened, and that was back when there was way more solidarity between Americans. The people in the military would look at some rag tag group of veterans and think "These freeloaders are a waste of space, good thing I'll never be like them." And pull the trigger. At least thats how the dudes in the military currently I've met would act. You greatly underestimate the amount of brainwashing a soldier undergoes. Every moment of everyday it's repeated for them.
ejpusa@reddit (OP)
I'm polling just the opposite. Why would you follow someone who says you are a loser? That then has nothing to do with being a veteran; there are deep psychological issues there, and father then is a father figure for you.
Then it gets a bit strange.
11SomeGuy17@reddit
Ofcourse there are deep psychological issues with literally every veteran. You don't sign up to kill people unless you're deeply wrong in the head oo think you'll be doing something else. Then every single day they're in the service it's permanent brainwashing mode 24/7. No thinking, no questioning, most don't even know that if you believe you've been given an illegal order you can refuse it. There is a whole mechanism for doing that. But they're trained to never use it, it's never discussed, it's never used, the times it's heard about people speak about it with disgust, as if the person is a traitor for defying their orders and is eventually drummed out of the military.
ejpusa@reddit (OP)
I know a number of Veterans, and they are as sane as anyone. They get, they go to work, they come home, they watch Netflix, they crash.
They worry about bills, the kids, and the aging parents. Just like everyone else.
:-)
11SomeGuy17@reddit
Never said they are crazy, but they are typically either deeply broken or deeply brainwashed. None of them for even a moment would consider holding a gun to an American soldier, if they were called upon to gun down striking union workers though, they'd do so in a heartbeat because "the country needs them" or whatever. It's normal people who commit such acts. The Nazis were generally normal people. Regular Germans joined up with the SS, normal Germans gassed Jews, normal Americans slaughtered indigenous people, slaughtered and beat runaway slaves, bombed striking coal miners on Blair Mountain, tortured and raped civilians in Abu Gharib. These are normal people, that's what people don't understand. Fascism doesn't happen because for a moment people are swept up in some kind of psychotic episode, they're normal, same people the whole way through. They are just normal sane people convinced that atrocious acts are a good thing or at least, acceptable to do for now.
DissedFunction@reddit
the people who need to revolt....watch fox news.
your revolution would likely be 60/40 a civil war unless people start to intelligently, grassroots counter the oligarchy Fox News.
CrimsonFlash911@reddit
The almost trillion dollar Propaganda machine and the decades long destruction of the US public education system is a very effective means to an end.
Straight-Razor666@reddit
and here we are...ample Freedumb in murikkka! So much winning!
AmericanVanguardist@reddit
It would most likely end in balkanization.
HardNut420@reddit
Americans still think they live in the best country in the world 💀
pirateseasalt@reddit
Americans are gullible and being manipulated by a handful of people with hoarding problems, hoarding a lot of green paper with dead men's faces. And Americans seem to love it since they keep defending capitalism and all.
ejpusa@reddit (OP)
Well, if you have the cash and you live in NYC, you are probably pretty happy. Swarms of super models, virtually unlimited entertainment, and $2500 Sushi meals.
Icy_Mushroom_1873@reddit
Right, that’s why I believe the collapse has already started. And people keep predicting that it’ll “happen within the next year or 2 years from now” pretty sure it started in 08. maybe 9/11.
DruidicMagic@reddit
Capitalism has one hell of a propaganda machine.
SeVenMadRaBBits@reddit
Roughly 90% of US media is controlled by six conglomerates—Comcast, Disney, News Corp, Paramount Global (formerly ViacomCBS), Warner Bros. Discovery, and Fox Corporation. These companies, often termed the "Big Six," consolidate ownership of major news and entertainment outlets, which some critics argue reduces viewpoint diversity and can align content with corporate or conservative interests.
shitchea420@reddit
that’s why i try to get my news from al jazeera
DruidicMagic@reddit
Operation Mockingbird...
FieldsofBlue@reddit
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/telegraph-and-politico-owner-says-journalists-must-support-israel-or-resign
shitchea420@reddit
not us disenfranchised amerikkkans
Starkrall@reddit
No, the fuck, we don't.
We could you possibly be talking to that feels this way and is also capable of operating a smartphone or a computer?
NyriasNeo@reddit
Not only Americans. There are those from other countries who are literally dying to come here. May be fewer now because of ICE, but still not zero.
SeVenMadRaBBits@reddit
Wait til they find out we're the only developed nation without free Healthcare AND we pay more for the Healthcare we do get (privatized).
Also, wait until they see how advanced Chinese infrastructure has become while ours falls apart.
yummyneverstone@reddit
Americans^TM think that. A good amount of us, especially younger folk, have no loyalty to this nation as it exists. We love this land and most of our neighbors, but what the fuck has this government, the capital that purchased it, or the system which it leads done for us?
animositykilledzecat@reddit
Not all of us. Many of us are painfully aware of the disaster that is our country.
Straight-Razor666@reddit
Capitalism CAUSES poverty. This is a necessary function of that barbaric and criminal system. Just like capitalist extraction and accumulation has caused total ecological devastation to the entire planet - I call it "terracide" - that we all discuss here, so too must it immiserate more and more populations of people so it can continue to exist.
Indeed "academics" from Harvard and other capitalist-approved institutions that perpetuate "revolutionary" talk are only going to proffer solutions tolerable to the minority class of parasites on our backs. The solution is a SOCIALIST revolution.
Only a SOCIALIST revolution will liberate the masses from their lives of tyranny, and a socialist revolution seeks the full liquidation of the minority class of bourgeoisie with the goal of creating a worker state that exists to produce for human and ecological need instead of profits for the few.
And let me disabuse the OP of their belief that the founders of this wretched nation were anything other than genocidal maniacs. America was formed by rich, white, educated, slaved and property owning misogynists for the purpose of preserving their own class interests exclusively. This nation was built off the backs of millions of black slaves and on land taken by means of the murder of nearly a hundred million native people. Anyone with an ounce of human morality and good in them would see the only solution is to jettison this "constitution" and replace it with one that serves the actual interests of the masses since the one that exists only serves the very, very small group of parasites oppressing us all.
That the OP comes here and actually approves what Jefferson and Bannon would want is ghastly. Jefferson was a slave owning, genocidal pedophile...my god! And Bannon...people who go in for that monster are the very people who are part of the PROBLEM of why they posted this video in the first place. Bannon is a pure fascist and necessary to capitalism since capitalism is dying and needs fascism to keep the people distracted.
Fucking hell, it's people who keep supporting these tyrannical despots is why we can't get rid of them. They need you to carry their water since they need complicit imbeciles who are willing to cheer for forces against their own interests otherwise they'd realize quickly just how much we - not the op - outnumber them.
You want to carry some goddammed water, go carry water for that man in the video who has to carry his instead. And read some history since it's clear you need to do that.
ejpusa@reddit (OP)
Think you may find Doi Moi interesting. It's the economic underpinnings of Vietnam. They took what works in communism, socialism, and capitalism, took the best of each, and mashed them all together.
The country's economy is booming. You can get a great meal for $1, and there is virtually no homelessness. And your cell bill, unlimited, was $5 last time I visited.
________
Đổi Mới (IPA: [ɗo᷉i mɤ̂ːi]; transl. "renovation" or "innovation", lit. '[the] new replacing') is the name given to the economic reforms process of Vietnam since late 1986 to create a "socialist-oriented market economy". The term đổi mới itself is a general term with wide use in the Vietnamese language meaning "innovate" or "renovate".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90%E1%BB%95i_M%E1%BB%9Bi
Reasonable-Teach7155@reddit
What on earth could ivy league professors at Harvard and Yale possibly know about what's actually happening in this country 🤣🤣 the literal definition of ivory tower academics
ejpusa@reddit (OP)
They want to see a revolution; they are "curious" about the outcome. Publish or Perish. Look at the Iraq War, that was an "experiment", check out the participants and their backgrounds. Steve Bannon is a Harvard graduate, too. A big fan of revolution.
They get their news just like you and me.
Reasonable-Teach7155@reddit
Idgaf about news I care about milk and gas and none of them can tell me how much it costs without referencing a study which means everything they say is wrong.
Substantial-Spare501@reddit
When
twotimefind@reddit
USA current rankings
Potential-Dog1551@reddit
They need to read up on the Bonus Army
Jovan_Knight005@reddit
I wouldn't be as hopeful as you are, but realistically the Second American Civil War doesn't seem to be an unrealistic scenario anymore.
sks010@reddit
Balkanization is the only way forward I'm afraid
Comrade_Compadre@reddit
The problem with this is the droves of (gun owning) people living in poverty who can't afford food or healthcare who believe the current administration is working in their interests and will die to keep it that way.
There is a whole unorganized sect of civilization that will ooze out of the woodwork to blindly defend the flag if it came down to it. American propaganda has succeeded.
AmericanVanguardist@reddit
And that is why I have no empathy for them. I don't care when their livelihoods dissappear.
Comrade_Compadre@reddit
Agreed, but by the time their livelyhoods are gone it'll be way past too late to do anything about it.
AmericanVanguardist@reddit
Something that gives me solace is that they are very likely to be close to the bottom of any caste system that forms. They will be worked like dogs and they will never see their families.
Prollynotafed@reddit
Rednecks. Everyone of the sister kissing, bro dozer driving rednecks you and I see clogging up streets will 100% pull a weapon and fucking shoot you for no other reason than the orange idiot making a sundown post on social media. It’s a death cult full of uneducated, psychotic, drug abusing pedophile worshippers.
Comrade_Compadre@reddit
I live in a bloodredneck county in Florida.
100% of my neighbors would absolutely execute me for being a leftist if orange man asked them to.
What really funny though is the few I've had over for dinner or whatever (before realizing ng they were lunatics) literally agree on things like:
Fair wages. Healthcare. Don't be a pedo.
But because we live in a country that has weaponized political standings, that's where we are
BloodWorried7446@reddit
problem is with the resulting Void there is no one to fill the power vacuum.
miklayn@reddit
There is always you and me.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
Kahnza@reddit
China will do their best
RelativePea8217@reddit
Demographics are destiny. But hey, at least America is really diverse now.
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
Hi, RelativePea8217. Thanks for contributing. However, your comment was removed from /r/collapse for:
Please refer to our subreddit rules for more information.
You can message the mods if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
philip8421@reddit
Shut up fascist scum
ElectricalPie3846@reddit
Getting rid of smartphones and our dependence on them would change everything. Everything. It would eliminate some of the biggest problems the world faces.
runningoutofwords@reddit
Oh, and no way I'm clicking on this AI generated video. Nope.
glassy99@reddit
It's not AI generated.
happyluckystar@reddit
That's what I thought. The video still is definitely ai generated but it's a real video. The lady has other videos was well.
Escudo777@reddit
Beautiful country blessed with natural beauty and resources. If the government looked after the people instead of interfering everywhere and acting for benefit of corporations and foreign powers,USA could have been a very happy place. I am writing this as an Indian who knows the same is going to happen soon in my country also.
NyriasNeo@reddit
There will be no revolution.
The poor are too busy surviving. The rich are too busy enjoying life. The middle (yes, about 31% are actually upper middle class) are too busy dreaming of and working to becoming rich.
RunYouFoulBeast@reddit
Yeah ..till yellow stone wake up..
Over 350 earthquakes recorded since Friday in part of southern California
happyluckystar@reddit
To be realistic, as hard as it is to actually become wealthy, it's many times easier to do that than it is to change the system.
NyriasNeo@reddit
May be wealthy is hard. But upper middle class is not out of reach.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/upper-middle-class-income-us-what-it-takes/
"About 31% of U.S. households earn enough to be considered upper middle class, a roughly threefold increase since 1979, making it the nation's largest economic group, the research found. "
pyrotechnic15647@reddit
This is not true whatsoever. You need to establish a standard of “wealth”, first. Additionally, capitalism relies on having poor, working class majority and an army of reserve labor (aka unemployed). That means that the average person could never actually become party of the bourgeoisie. They are way way more likely to be a victim of the structural violence that capitalism reinforces (e.g. dying from lack of adequate healthcare, under-supported infrastructure and transport, hazardous work environments, war, etc.).
The working class masses genuinely have a better chance of overthrowing the system than achieving a life free from exploitation and environmental ills within the system. If you’re promoting becoming a capitalist as being a better avenue than revolution, you’re not only lying to people, intentionally or not. You’re also promoting incredibly misanthropic and environmentally damaging rhetoric.
happyluckystar@reddit
I feel trapped and personally feel that for me, this is my best option. And then I could afford to leave this hell hole full of angry people.
pyrotechnic15647@reddit
You are on the collapse subreddit, yet somehow you haven’t realized there is nowhere to run…. I understand the trapped feeling, that’s why I organize.
partime_prophet@reddit
And they vote for it . lol bootlickers
Mountain_Fig_9253@reddit
They would march to DC and blame democrats. We live in the stupidest timeline.
runningoutofwords@reddit
Problem being, they'd go to DC to string up the people that might actually help, while bolstering support for the billionaires' demagogue who eggs them on.
yummyneverstone@reddit
I'm sorry, but have you seen those people in third-world USA? They're easily the most self-interested, uneducated, socially repugnant people in this nation. If they ever somehow managed to find a collectivist bone in their body and organize a revolution, they'd overthrow the current system and leaders to appoint an openly pedophilic christian fascist God-king, labelling him the next coming of christ.
kulmthestatusquo@reddit
The Bonus Army
MacArthur fired on them
Effective-Ebb-2805@reddit
The Bonus Army would approve! So do I... I'm not a veteran but they can count on my sword.
redditmodsRrussians@reddit
I watched the video of the guy showing mine runoff polluting everything in West Virginia. He says the mines are being flooded cause DEP and their politicians are colluding with big mining corps to get the residual rare earths in those mines. All the crap that has been sitting down there for decades are being flushed into the rivers where people drink from. All the while the hospitals are being shut down.
pathf1nder00@reddit
There needs to be a "project 2025" for us "others", and then we need to make it happen somehow.
HomoExtinctisus@reddit
Load up on insulin and head east Old Man. There's a Hot Rotisserie Chicken awaiting you.
ejpusa@reddit (OP)
San Francisco is stunning. It's unreal the wealth there. It's all AI, and everyone is going to be a billionaire, so they say.
:-)
Glyph808@reddit
Sounds like the bonus army’s after world war 1
Yelworc0242@reddit
The thing is that they would rather blame each other and screw each other over than act as one. Americans don't care about each other they just want to get rich
Kahnza@reddit
womp womp