I think this is what kids these call a “truthnuke” or something

Posted by Paladin-Astolfo@reddit | 4chan | View on Reddit | 20 comments

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openedthedoor@reddit

That’s not a real quote and anyone that believes the holocaust was in some way to benefit Jews is genuinely dumb

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bannabananabanna@reddit

what holocaust?

oh you mean that thing were they claim 1.5 million prisoners were held in an area of 40km and exterminated at a rate of 4000 prisoners per day by 8000 german soldiers?

almost the same rate of cars tesla can produce per day at a shanghai factory in 2026...

Im noticing something here....

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forporn420@reddit

You're just trying to trick me into saying that no, it was to benefit the world.

I mean the shoe might fit but I'm not gonna say it

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The_Peen_Wizard@reddit

It would have been pretty neat if it was real.

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wasimlhr@reddit

Sure did create the imaginary state of Isnotreal

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TMWNN@reddit

Would the modern state of Israel exist without the Holocaust as a motivator, and reason for the US and UK to support its founding?

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SonnytheFlame@reddit

The English intended to create a Jewish state before WWI

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pangeapedestrian@reddit

actually, this is a real quote. it's from his collected and published diaries i think.

employing antisemitism politically was kind of what herzl was all about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzl's_Mauschel_and_Zionist_antisemitism

his essay mauschel is actually pretty worth reading, and i think it underscores a lot of attitudes that modern israel has towards jews who criticize israel/zionism- those who often form the largest and loudest groups protesting zionism, incidentally.

https://www.panarchy.org/palestine/mauschel.html

could only find the full text in english there, but wikipedia has scans of the original article too.

and the holocaust sure as shit didn't benefit jews. but it *was*, in many ways, the nazi party that enabled the formation of israel. not just in the holocaust being leveraged to capture global public support for their early colonial state, but the massive transfer of wealth into palestine in order to buy up land and build a political and economic base for the state. without this capture of businesses, land, and political/administrative power, there would be no israel today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

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openedthedoor@reddit

Actually, it’s not a real quote, and you search the actual diaries and you won’t find it.

https://ia801800.us.archive.org/27/items/the-complete-diaries-of-theodor-herzl/

The “Truthbomb” of this post is that Herzl was actually playing 5d chess somehow with Nazis to create Israel, when the exact opposite is more accurate, that he was recognizing ordinary Jews in Germany were being increasingly persecuted and that drastic action was needed. He said the “Mauschel” type Jew was sleepwalking into disaster, and surprise he was right, the Holocaust happened.

Also, to insinuate that without the Holocaust there would be no Israel is muddying the waters. 1897 was the start, the Balfour Declaration of 1917 placed it in British Palestine. There were 400k Jews there in 1938, then 700k at independence 10 years later. It would have happened regardless.

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pangeapedestrian@reddit

"The anti-Semites will become our most dependable friends, the anti-Semitic countries our allies."

Looks like it's right there on page 84. There are some differences though- and I've found a number of variations of the quote, I'm guessing due to different english translations?

I don't think Herzl was doing that (playing 5d chess with nazis), for the record. But I do think he was doing a lot more than just say that non-zionists were sleepwalking into disaster. Mauschel literally means "vermin" doesn't it?

here are some other quotes from Herzl.

"If whole branches of Jews must be destroyed, it is worth it, as long as a Jewish state in Palestine is created."

"We must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our country."

These quotes are also saying ... pretty much the same things as the OP quote.

I didn't insinuate that without the holocaust there would be no israel. But I do state explicitly that without the accretion of material wealth and political power from the haavara agreement, as well as the influx of emigration, there would be no israel.

"It would have happened regardless."

I don't think so. Or rather, I think it would have happened very differently, if at all. Haavara, and the post war-war era was a huge part of israel's foundation. to say it all would have happened anyway without all that is a pretty big leap.

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obsolete_broccoli@reddit

Jews? No

Zionists? Absolutely

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Valuable-Chipmunk784@reddit

The anti-semites shall be our best friends

Billions must smile