Anon thinks 1984's version of UBI doesn't sound so bad
Posted by SGC-UNIT-555@reddit | 4chan | View on Reddit | 129 comments
Posted by SGC-UNIT-555@reddit | 4chan | View on Reddit | 129 comments
Dronelisk@reddit
anon once again advocates for safety over freedom and doesn't understand why that's a dumb thing to do
FuckRedditIsLame@reddit
His point is that the world 1984 presents is arguably less depriving than the one in which we exist now, and the cons of such an arrangement already exist in our '''freer''' world.
Dronelisk@reddit
that sounds like high tier schizo shit tho
why does everyone thing orwell's 1984 agrees with them?
FuckRedditIsLame@reddit
I don't know... do we have deceptive, craven leaders who care only about power? Is our language sanitized and aggressively policed - in some cases literally? Is the truth not inverted and twisted and reshaped, or outright memory holed to suit the ones who hold power? Do we not have party affiliated media organs talking 24 hours into our ears across multiple mediums? Did we not demonstrate how easily the masses are not only controlled, but turned upon each other during Covid, with certain liberal types eagerly snitching on their family and neighbors, and aggressively pushed mass vaccination with a relatively barely tested novel vaccine?
rkoy1234@reddit
tribalism is the most bog standard tool they use to divide the mass.
conservative media focused on those fringe lefties snitching their neighbors. liberal media focused on terminally online twitter conservatives spitting on people's foods.
it was so effective in making everybody in-between draw a line in the middle and call anybody on the other side "brainwashed sheep".
that to me is far more concerning than anything you've mentioned.
lookyloolookingatyou@reddit
I can have as much wine, chocolate, and premium cigarettes as I want. The punishment for crimethink is that I would have to find another job. The city I live in is reasonably well-maintained and not under attack from intercontinental missiles. At no point have I ever felt afraid to possess a photograph nor have I had one that contradicted established historical record. I don't fear interacting with the secret police when I go to a thrift store or a bar. Nobody is required to take out folding chairs and scream at a video for two minutes a day. I do not find myself under scrutiny for taking public transportation at unorthodox hours nor are the busses full of children singing patriotic songs about dying for the government. I am not woken up by a government alarm nor required to stand at attention for the national anthem. If someone's child reported me to the police for wearing unfamiliar shoes, I would not be hauled off and they would not be rewarded. I do not rigorously scrutinize my own face for signs of disbelief while watching the news. Nobody wears a uniform.
GlitteringFutures@reddit
It's been a while since I read 1984, but isn't one of the government punishments for wrong-think strapping a cage with a starving rat to your face letting it chew through to your brain?
AzKondor@reddit
What are the arguments for it being less depriving?
KURDISHMINOR@reddit
then contribute something and prove him wrong?
MisfitActual0311@reddit
The primary threat to your safety is the very government you've entrusted to keep you safe.
KURDISHMINOR@reddit
because in 1984 safety is conditional. everything is conditional. and government is consistent. rules apply for everyone. but if you prove your loyalty, you get privileges and bend those rules. you need to EARN safety and freedom.
the problem is irl, governments and people with power is not consistent and trustworthy. you don't know what will happen next month. you may be laid off, your entire town may get blacked out cuz some dipshit built a data center there, or get stabbed by some undocumented immigrants because your prime minister wants cheap labor for industry. in 1984 there is no room for those bullshits.
that's why anon right. anyone who smarter than african grey parrots can understand it. rule 1 for dystopias, there is no consistency and stability. and doomsday clock says it is now 85 seconds to midnight. evaluate this and 1984 and decide which one is actually worse.
Fearless_Permit1583@reddit
This mf has not read 1984.
The whole point of the book was that even with loyalty you still get screwed over and you get eradicated if the government even SUSPECTS you do something against them. Only ordinary people like Wilson and those beneath him can live because they don't care enough. The government rewards apathy, not enthusiasm. This is actually similar to how the USSR operated in some regards. If you were an average Ivan, who clocked into his shift, did his work at least half assed and went home to drink vodka you had almost nothing to worry about. If you were one of Stalin's buddies however, may God have mercy on you.
KURDISHMINOR@reddit
i read the book. and your paragraph doesn't contradict my argument. but i think i explained myself enough and will not answer any redditor opinion anymore.
AzKondor@reddit
The government is consistent? The whole point was that they created the reality. The chocolate rations rise from 10 to 20 grams. We were always at war with Eurasia. They can do every single bullshit you have listed, but you cannot say anything against it.
Varangus@reddit
Safety over freedom is the basic founding principle of society.
Electronic_Leek9147@reddit
The government from 1984 wanted to have the whole population live in fear. That's what the years of Stalin's Terror were about. And also what the far right used btw in Germany, Spain and italy.
When the government doesn't have checks and balances they can implement the most depressive regimes and you have to comply.
That said, anon makes interesting points about today's world.
SnooWoofers186@reddit
Far right? And what does far left do now? These word describing left or right alignment means less and less the days pass by…
Intensityintensifies@reddit
The far left would be Stalin. It’s 100% accurate to say both the left and right are capable of this.
ZMowlcher@reddit
Unchecked power always ends up the samep
FuckRedditIsLame@reddit
Yep. And somehow we've ended up in this place where we almost feel like we have to choose one or the other as though there's not a vast amount of sensible middle ground, yet if we take that middle ground both sides screech about us not taking a side and you end up being labeled a fascist or a reactionary, or '''woke''' by their respective media organs.
marino1310@reddit
There isn’t really any far left politicians, just far left screeching citizens, who have no power. Closest we have to far left politicians in the USA is trans laws and stuff about hate speech. That’s about as bad as it gets for the left
Alkyline_Chemist@reddit
Who are you talking about? It must be nice to hide behind so much obscurity to avoid having to point to anything that you're talking about
wordjedi@reddit
*Sweden
Knee_Ger_Cmpt13@reddit
Stalin would be characterized as an alt-right farthest away from the center possible by lunatics like you that suck of Ursula and the globalist homosexuals.
Valuable-Chipmunk784@reddit
When my side does it it's based though
MonotonyDauntSonder@reddit
On God.
SnooWoofers186@reddit
Your side? You will only get chest pain, your rib cage need to stay together
kingbam161@reddit
ah yes. the german national far right party as they were called.
Electronic_Leek9147@reddit
You are truly retarded if you believe that the term "socialist" in NSDAP means that the Nazis were left-wing.
I guess you also believe that the sandwich theorem in mathematics is about sandwiches and that Prada is satanic because of "The devil wears Prada".
kingbam161@reddit
you got me. you imagine i am something that i am not and you owned me.
Judah_Earl@reddit
Thankfully, today's governments don't do that...
andhe96@reddit
Not everyone has to get their news from fear-mongering "news" outlets like the US or emotionally charged social media.
In most European countries we have public broadcasting, which have to portray news in a balanced and unbiased as possible way by law.
The US did have similar laws as well until the late 1970s.
OneEnvironmental9222@reddit
far right germany? Lmao
andhe96@reddit
Yes, the NS regime was far right extremist, what do you mean?
omega552003@reddit
National Socialism has more in common with the modern left than the right.
HitIerWasBad@reddit
Everything else was far left (progressive as they saw it) but they were racist so they're far right.
anarchistright@reddit
Let’s have the government itself manage the checks and balances on itself!
Electronic_Leek9147@reddit
China, Russia and the US since TACO's reelection are experimenting in this new field of political science. Wait for a couple generations to see the exciting results (if we get to survive)!!!
anarchistright@reddit
It has always been like that, though. If you are supporter of government, in general, you are trusting in it putting checks on itself.
8aller8ruh@reddit
Same reason for manipulating criminals into committing extra crimes… they want extra excuses to crack down on civil liberties, Crisis & Leviathan style.
Automatic_Day5460@reddit
I used to not care about censorship so much and then Reddit banned my account.
Darthblaker7474@reddit
I am oppressed on reddit as I cannot say the word for cigarette in my native language.
marino1310@reddit
I don’t think that is the native word for cigarette anywhere. It’s always been a slang term.
omega552003@reddit
It starts with a "N" doesn't it?
Darthblaker7474@reddit
F
Stunning-Field2011@reddit
If you’re English then cigarette is the correct name and F is a slang name. But of course Reddit police doesn’t take into account that not everyone is American and we used F for cigarettes but it was commandeered as a “slur” against men who love cock.
ReeeeTardyOswald@reddit
Reddit likes to ban you for spreading factual information. Only when it’s about certain groups of people though.
Shadowstar1000@reddit
For real, i got banned from worldnews for calling out all that fake gaza crap for the islamist spam it is
Trick-Caramel-6156@reddit
Actually reddit won't ban you for speaking against jews this sites hates the jews just as much as you.
SnooWoofers186@reddit
Disagree, my post was removed and the was given warning message just because I use sound alike word to make some jokes about “them”.
BOUKEN-BEN@reddit
This subreddit is literally moderated by an all-seeing LLM, I'm not joking. I assume the admins decided the mods didn't sufficiently enforce enough doubleplus goodthink so now every one of your posts is instantly scanned for not just keywords but even subtext and implication and action is immediately taken on it in seconds. You can and will have your account permabanned without a human being ever once reviewing anything its posted, and the message will tell you as much. Reddit is literally enacting the first steps of the authoritarian bureaucratic AI dystopia. I hate what this website has become so much. It has cognitively disemboweled millions across multiple generations. I need to leave this place once and for all.
Trick-Caramel-6156@reddit
I guess it depends on the subreddit but I know that criticism and hatred about isreal and jews is wayy more widespread here and other social media then it was 10 years ago.
Negative-Net3447@reddit
The difference is that redditors still disconnect Israelis and Jews even though Israel’s expansionist, supremacist policy is very popular among Jews.
TheCynicalAutist@reddit
Bro hasn't been on Instagram reels or X.
Trick-Caramel-6156@reddit
I saw the reels I know they say thev the N word more then all of Tarantino's movies combined.
SnooWoofers186@reddit
N-word? Nice?
I wish we could stop using these type of shorten single letter word, at least use a full word. Maybe should change to call them as Naughty-people, the Nope-people, Narcissist, Neurodeficit
Even when people spell out the Nazi insult in full.
The_Peen_Wizard@reddit
Nah I got a 3 day ban and a 7 day ban in the last two weeks. First one for talking about little hats, the second for the scam call people.
Stunning-Field2011@reddit
I got a 3 day ban for quoting reports on gr00ming gangs here in the UK. Our current PM loved covering for no fee when he was DPP so even those statistics are a tiny amount of what they are in reality.
SarahC@reddit
Ah! The dues?
Jeevaca@reddit
“This site” is not the same as “these mods”
BrocoliAssassin@reddit
What are you talking about? I've been banned from so many subs if I mention zionists or tiny hat supremacy.
Redditors love being mad at the made up nazi's they are going to punch in the face vs the zionists that are actually in power and the tiny hats that are ruining our culture and so much more.
CobandCoffee@reddit
They care more when you mention a certain demographic that makes up about 13% of the population and related statistics...
OneEnvironmental9222@reddit
but mention anything about koreans and... rip
Cynical_Tripster@reddit
Yeh, even political compass memes banned me when I made a 'number between 108-110 and being kicked out of bars' joke
ElkSad7412@reddit
That place is super zogged. Same as worldnews.
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suica1983@reddit
schmitzel88@reddit
Reddit will ban you if you speak too negatively about the tech companies who advertise here
OneEnvironmental9222@reddit
Reddit accounts get banned so easily. I had to do crazy loops to keep this account here permamently save and unbanable. But go to literally any top reddit post from past year and 80% of accounts are just gone
MonotonyDauntSonder@reddit
First they came for the socialists - ass response.
At least you are honest 😄
oscar_z_a@reddit
Newlifetoeurope ?
ConscientiousPath@reddit
anon is exactly the kind of person who shouldn't be allowed to vote.
andhe96@reddit
Everyone should be allowed to vote, it's a basic freedom/right in democracies.
But education is as well, so the education system failed on them instead.
andhe96@reddit
I guess OOP has no idea, how bad life really is in actual dictatorship.
While no country is perfect, and democracies can have some flaws as well, it's still the best form of government and society, we could invent so far.
But I also live in a social democracy with strong checks and balances, so I might be biased.
zrock44@reddit
Gonna forget that whole part about how there's a big screen where someone's watching and listening to you all day and night I guess
Wait they do that now too.
Well they're at least not so obvious about it
Valuable-Chipmunk784@reddit
In 1984 there is no self-insert harem isekai anime.
sofa_adviser@reddit
There actually might be
Iirc Winston mentions the existence of standard, proceduraly generated porn/erotica stories. So canonically state-sponsored harem animes are probably a thing
wombatarang@reddit
What I feel most people forget about the book is that the proles had pretty normal lives compared to party members.
Due_Title_6982@reddit
When i read the scene where wintston talks to the old prole dude it really pissed me off how clueless he is, even if it is realistic
SGC-UNIT-555@reddit (OP)
True, but you can ogle and stare at large prole women putting up the washing like Winston does in the book as an alternative.
Valuable-Chipmunk784@reddit
Julia-chan best girl, Winston-kun did nothing wrong.
Sp00ked123@reddit
This is why they call us cattle
aucran@reddit
Remember, they won't have to Fahrenheit 451 the books if they just make the next generation illiterate.
the-dogsox@reddit
Brave New World is a better book to make this argument with, Anon
scottlapier@reddit
Until it gets like Brave New World and they purpose mess with your embryo to make idiots....
Fayraz8729@reddit
1984 is a terrible choice, brave new world would have been better since even in the book the MC is eventually crushed under foot of his government
“If you want to see the future imagine a boot stomping on a human face forever”
SquatSquatCykaBlyat@reddit
Is an Asian girl wearing that boot?
Ryanhussain14@reddit
How are chocolate/coffee/booze rations a boon? Give me my hard mocha milkshakes you fascist communist scum.
thewebspinner@reddit
Stops people getting fat I guess
Ryanhussain14@reddit
Considering how socialist nations have a track record of starving their citizens to death, I’ll take the obesity.
anonymouswan1@reddit
We're on track to have a majority of people obese in the USA. I used to not care, but now I am apart of this toxic dating pool. The w*men are all obese.
SquatSquatCykaBlyat@reddit
You can just tell that this guy is using dating apps, lmao. "Why are they all bottom of the barrel, when I go to places made for the bottom of the barrel of women?"
Mountain-Durian-4724@reddit
The bigger the figure the better I like her
-Louis Prima
Ryanhussain14@reddit
You know you can just not date, right? No point playing the game if you hate all the players.
sleepingjiva@reddit
Because Airstrip One is a absolute shithole without even the most basic provisions for its citizens. I can understand your argument in scenarios where the dictatorship has created a totalitarian police state that is also a paradise but 1984 definitely ain't that.
SGC-UNIT-555@reddit (OP)
Shithole is relative though, as other places could be the same or even worse in the setting. The book does hint at some sort of past catastrophe like nuclear war or famine due to infrastructure damage and lack of records.
sleepingjiva@reddit
That is true, and obviously we only see/read through the eyes of Winston, but it seems that apart from the true believers (like that guy who works with Winston who loves newspeak) people are generally aware of how shit everything is. They know the news broadcasts are full of shit, they know they shouldn't be as cold and dirty and hungry as they are, they know Victory Gin is undrinkable swill. You'd think there has to be something better out there somewhere.
meermaalsgeprobeerd@reddit
You guys should read "Brave New World", kinda the same idea but takes care of the problems that anon mentions.
nondescriptzombie@reddit
No one should ever read Ayn Rand's bullshit.
grimmal72@reddit
Ah yes, Brave New World by Ayn Rand.
PlasticAssistance_50@reddit
Nah, 1984 describes what is going to happen soon better than Brave New World.
JhonnySkeiner@reddit
Yeah Brave New World IS a totalitarian state that manages to be a utopia at the same time, everyone is happy and living to their fullest, from the bottom rabble to the biggest alpha gigachads, nature is preserved, entertainment is valued and your needs are fulfilled (even though your needs are shaped during birth).
While 1984 is tortured into accepting and force is using as a deterrent there, people in Brave New World are just called weird retards when they preach about living in the woods away from the gov
Phteven_j@reddit
They exile people though in BNW if they get too uppity. Idk how common it is but it’s not just making fun of them.
wombatarang@reddit
This entire post could be avoided if anon actually read the book.
Kur0d4@reddit
Anon is too busy moping about his lack of sex to do anything productive with his life. Reading a book might actually require effort and discipline which is scary compared to comfortable misery.
TURBOWyMiaTaToR@reddit
What till you read brand new world
wordjedi@reddit
we have 1984 at home
pencock@reddit
Anon can join the armed forces and leave the rest of us the fuck alone
WendyLRogers3@reddit
nineteen-eighty-four (1949) was fully actualized by 1984. It is now twenty-twenty-six, and all the technologies then have advanced by 42 years. The most advanced PC at the time was an IBM PC/AT.
In 1984, the specification for Common Lisp was formally published, standardizing features that made it the undisputed king of building "expert systems" and complex AI algorithms.
Typical_Response_950@reddit
is that the scatman??
rumSaint@reddit
It's all fun and games until you realize the government workers are humans and will fuck up people from the position of power. You can see that in US as "police brutality".
edbods@reddit
look at all those gripes about HR departments - imagine the government being full of those people
unsunganhero@reddit
slow painful death from starving or heart disease/high blood pressure. pick your poison
(or just be healthy, which is some how also controvesial)
rumSaint@reddit
Exactly. It's all utopia that doesn't take into consideration human nature. Give some people a bit of power and they will create hell themselves.
Valuable-Chipmunk784@reddit
You can see a greater problem in the media coverage of "police brutality".
EpicRussia@reddit
The only freedom you have in the "free world" is the freedom to exploit others' work, which, for the 93% of Americans that will never own a business, is no freedom at all. You are more stressed, have less upward mobility, have a smaller family, have less sex, have fewer days off work, have fewer parties and festivals, and less stable housing than a medieval peasant
Valuable-Chipmunk784@reddit
I don't believe free speech is upheld in much of the West, but even in places like the UK it's better than what medieval peasants and communist peasants had. Common Westerners also have the freedom to own land and property, freedom of religion, and freedom of movement, which were generally not enjoyed under communism or feudalism. A modern American does not have less upward mobility than a medieval peasant. Peasants also worked more hours and days if you count all work.
They were largely driven by private companies and government contractors actually.
EpicRussia@reddit
Free speech is not upheld in the west, even in the US, the most "free speech protected" country, it's just a privatized enforcement. Say what you really think and you get canceled by social and private forces alike. Your speech can get refused and restricted by publishers, social media sites, the company you work for (NDAs etc). Julian Assange spent 15 years holed up in the UK because he published documents against the US. Some free speech.
Scientific innovation happens when you pay for it and fund it. Sometimes private companies do this, but for the vast majority of human history, it was government funded. Russia/The USSR was never once capitalist and they invented the cell phone. (Well, they became capitalist 30 years afterwards) Capitalism sits alongside innovation in tech and medicine, not the driver of it, I want to head off the argument since its most people's go-to response "you only have a life of relative comfort because capitalism invented the hospital"
QFB-procrastinator@reddit
Username checks out
azaza34@reddit
You never get to really see what the average joes life is like in 1984.
xgudghfhgffgddgg@reddit
Why should anyone have their life controlled by someone else when the problems can be solved by controlling a very small minority?...the politicians. If they had accountability for their actions and had all their life+finances a public knowledge then most of the problems would disappear over night.
Snake_Emper0r@reddit
Anon is cattle that doesn't deserve to be treated as a citizen
PrrrromotionGiven1@reddit
At the end of the day it always basically boils down to, Dictatorships want to make people work too hard.
Idk if they ever specifically bring up working hours in 1984, I don't remember it coming up, but that's the most fundamental reason why I never want to live in a dictatorship - once they have full control of the politics, the armed forces, the laws, the media, the society, the economy... what is stopping them from making me work 14 hours a day in a factory? That I will kill myself? They don't care, most people will not do that.
The stuff about "freedoms" are basically all downstream of having control over your own time.
ion_driver@reddit
There was a lot of sex in 1984
_-___-__-_-__-___-_@reddit
> Government using decades long wars as an internal control with no clear goal and an interchangeable enemy to justify surveillance and militarization.
Only an American can glorify and defend this
ReeeeTardyOswald@reddit
I think you’re looking for im14andthisisdeep
SuqMadiq64@reddit
found the mutt