Greenlandic woman wins case against Danish authorities who removed her two-hour-old child
Posted by cambeiu@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 330 comments
Keira Alexandra Kronvold’s daughter Zammi was taken away from her when she was two hours old and placed in foster care in November 2024 after Kronvold was subjected to so-called FKU (parental competence) psychometric tests. At the time she was told that the test was to see if she was “civilized enough”.
coldfirestorm@reddit
Greenland goverment (2025) does not want to continue the work to adjusted the test to account for culture differences and language as of mid 2025 [1]. Should Denmark go against the Greenlands goverment wishes? Ultimately Greenland is a danish colony.
I am not sure how the new Greenland government see it. If somebody knows that the Greenland officel have changed their point of view I would like to hear about it.
[1] https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/regeringen-dropper-saerlig-groenlandsk-foraeldreskabstest
The article does sadly not explain why does not want to adjusted the test.
ArchetypeV2@reddit
Because there shouldn’t even be a test like this to begin with.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
So you're ok with uncompetent parents keeping and harming their children??
HalayChekenKovboy@reddit
They only banned it LAST MAY? And a "civilisation test"? What a joke. Of course, what is more civilised than separating children from their mothers ~~to completely assimilate them and eradicate their culture~~ just hours after birth? If this is what civilisation is, I would much prefer barbarism.
But really, reading what year this happened in has shocked me thoroughly. I am used to reading about such things happening decades before my birth, not when I was very much alive and conscious and going on about my day. And was Denmark ever sanctioned this? Of course they weren't. Sanctions are for poor countries that can't fight back.
Turtle_With_Grudge@reddit
Forced removals and sterilization was still occurring, in Canada up until 2018. The Senate in 2025 voted unanimously to forward a bill outlawing the practice.
When Indigenous people call what's happening to them a genocide, they weren't being hyperbolic.
clovis_227@reddit
Don't forget Canada's "starlight tours"
Ambiwlans@reddit
You don't think it is weird to compare 2~3 deaths caused by a single police force where the cops were jailed to genocide?
YAY12345678911@reddit
Buddy shut up. My brother was taken out to the outskirts of london Ontario by the opp and had his legs beaten he walks with limp now’s this shit happens all the time
HalfLeper@reddit
What’s the OPP?
YAY12345678911@reddit
Ontario provincial police
clovis_227@reddit
Compare what? It's another symptom of a racist society
Ambiwlans@reddit
We're talking about literally a handful of individuals in a nation of tens of millions.
clovis_227@reddit
They're not isolated cases when you take into consideration all other anti-indigenous discriminatory behaviour
Ambiwlans@reddit
2~10 individuals out of ~100million Canadians is as isolated a case as might exist.
clovis_227@reddit
Are you slow? These aren't the only cases of anti-indigenous discrimination
Ambiwlans@reddit
It was the one you chose to highlight.
clovis_227@reddit
In addition to the other things highlighted by the comment above mine. Again, are you slow?
Ambiwlans@reddit
They were literally just wrong. Forced sterilization was banned in the early 70s. Not 2018. People just hate facts.
clovis_227@reddit
They said they were being carried up until at least 2018, not that it was (first) banned in 2018. In any case, a formal ban doesn't necessarily entail an end to the practice, as it is widely known. Since it's obvious you're arguing in bad faith, just be quiet already, since I won't respond to you anymore.
RoostasTowel@reddit
Nope you're wrong
HalayChekenKovboy@reddit
2018? Not even a decade ago? I am learning a lot of terrifying facts today.
Treadwheel@reddit
Forced sterilization is still disturbingly prevalent in many, many countries. The US still has an ongoing problem with it, and I'm positive it still takes place in Canada as well. The issue is that, nominally, the procedures cannot be forced on someone who does not consent, but in practice it still takes place via a combination of guardianship "loopholes", coercion, obtaining "consent" when people have severely diminished capacity (eg in the context of medically necessary procedures that require sedation), or simply by finding a pretext to perform a "necessary" sterilizing procedure, relying on their victims' lack of resources to challenge its propriety after the fact. The use of loopholes and pretext makes it extremely difficult to stamp out the practice, especially since the people committing the crime will often be adamant about the outcome being the "right thing to do" for the victim (invariably framed as not having the capacity to understand why) and cover for one another on an institutional level.
Colonialism is a hell of a drug.
Piss_in_my_cunt@reddit
Where does it happen in the US?
Aeroncastle@reddit
You guys lost 1200 people in alligator Alcatraz, sterilization is something from the past, you throw people to alligators and your government is proud of it
HalfLeper@reddit
That’s not even related to the question 🤨
notfork@reddit
A lot of places.
31 states
here as a University Delaware paper that goes into some more detail. Literally titled "It Never Stopped"
neverendingchalupas@reddit
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/9/15/21437805/whistleblower-hysterectomies-nurse-irwin-ice
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/16/us/ice-hysterectomy-forced-sterilization-history/index.html.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-detained-ice-unnecessary-gynecological-procedures-georgia-facility-investigation/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/03/23/immigrant-women-hell-on-earth-trump-ice-detention/82029368007/
Trump had been sterilizing women under his first administration, the reported conditions are blatantly illegal. The administration is currently violating the law by blocking oversight of the facilities.
To suggest that the sterilizations are not continuing while reports of the conditions are worsening and oversight is being obstructed is fucking laughable.
This administration are a bunch of Nazis, their supporters are Nazis. There is no use trying to deny or defend the obvious.
Chopper-42@reddit
There is a famous picture of the actress Kaniehtiio Horn (Letterkenny, Reservation Dogs, the Man In The High Castle) when she was 4 years old being held by her 14yo sister Waneek (co-captain of the Canadian women's water polo team at the 2000 Sydney Olympics) while Waneek is getting stabbed in the chest by a Canadian soldier wielding a bayonet.
The reason? They were protesting the construction of a golf course on native land.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CuKPjU5rlux/
FlamingRustBucket@reddit
What in the sweet fuck is this? Thank you for sharing. I knew they were terrible to their native population, but not RECENTLY. Whoever is in charge of Canadian PR is doing a hell of a job sweeping stuff like this under the rug.
YAY12345678911@reddit
Bro I was separated from my mom when I was 3 years old and she was separated from her mom when she was a baby as well. My mom had her brain friend by repeat forced electroshock therapies and my grandmother died alone from lung cancer when I was still a child. Grandmother had it worst of all because in the residential schools which she grew up in they tortured her for trying to speak her language they stick a hot iron through her tongue and all her teeth fell out from infection and crap. The government never gave her financial assistance to get her mouth fixed up. She died alone in her apartment. And I myself grew up in group homes and foster homes and had to deal with so much racism. Fuck Canada…
HalfLeper@reddit
Didn’t the residential school system only close in, like, 1991 or something?
abnormuhl@reddit
Wait until you hear about how Canadians with disabilities are doing today, and how the government is lying for global clicks about immigration programs that don’t currently exist. And don’t look into the Deschênes Commission or how the guy who took Crimea by plebiscite is liking our political drama.
Turtle_With_Grudge@reddit
Even after the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Committee, Canada is still at it's core deeply racist to Indigenous people. And we're regressing with the meager progress we did make towards Self-Determination and Self-Governance. We've had major challenges to adoption of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples following court decisions, which now focus on developments on unceded land. PM Carney has promised fast tracking of extractive resources and development with 'consultation' with First Nations, but many First Nations leaders are angered and worried what this will mean for the Nations they preside over. And we still have terrible structural and institutional racism that affect Indigenous people adversely. So we still have a lot of work to do to disrupt our colonial systems in order to fully achieve a partnership with our First Peoples.
Short-Ticket-1196@reddit
And then theres Alberta seperatists busting in like the coolaid man with flat denial of any Indigenous treaty rights. Progress is vanishing.
Turtle_With_Grudge@reddit
Mostly in BC honestly. Alberta too, yes, but the Separatists are too stupid to understand most of the province is Treaty land. Whereas in BC, most is unceded. Problem now is developers, townships and industry ignored that fact until long after development completed. Now there is considerable debate on 'ownership' and redress for these wrongs that's before the courts and in legislature.
HalfLeper@reddit
Didn’t the residential school system only close in, like, 1991 or something?
Treadwheel@reddit
She had to crop it for instagram, here's the photo with the bayonet-fixed rifle visible. They never seem to want to show that one when the anniversary of Oka comes around, or the stand offs between armed soldiers and literal grandparents. It's only ever the (admittedly badass) photo of Brad Larocque staring down the soldier.
Hidesuru@reddit
Fuck basically just everything. I'm not convinced there's a country in existence today that isn't a pos in some way in their recent past.
Ambiwlans@reddit
At that event, the Oka crisis, there were hundreds of armed natives literally called the Mohawk Warriors, a Canadian soldier was killed (gunshot), and dozens more were wounded.
This was not a peaceful protest. Bringing a child to a military conflict where gunfire is exchanged is genuinely insane. Keep in mind that this incident happened after 80 days of combat.
I understand personally being pissed at the people involved, but this wasn't a sign of a racist government going out of their way to stab kids.
BrazilianMerkin@reddit
Entirely off topic but only now realized that Tanis and Deer Lady are the same actor. Love both shows and never made the connection
xabierus@reddit
never i thought she was native, very sad story.
Ambiwlans@reddit
It isn't true.
Ambiwlans@reddit
That's simply untrue. Forced sterilization was banned in 1972 and 1973 (in Alberta and BC respectively as the only two provinces that had it). And it was sterilization of the mentally ill (unable to consent to have nor care for a child), not of natives.
Literally nothing on the topic happened in 2018. Please don't make up shit.
evermorecoffee@reddit
Imagine being so confidently wrong about something so easy to look up.
From February 2026: “The Survivors Circle for Reproductive Justice said an estimated 12,000 to 15,000 individuals have been sterilized in Canada without proper consent -- some as recently as last year.”
Ambiwlans@reddit
An activist group statement is not reality.
Forced sterilization has been illegal everywhere in Canada since 1973, like I said.
xcaltoona@reddit
Governments never do anything illegal sure
Ambiwlans@reddit
The initial poster said that it was legal and only being banned now. This is factually incorrect.
protonpack@reddit
Bro you are obviously biased as fuck
Ambiwlans@reddit
Its literally an activist group statement with zero evidence.
We were talking about government programs and the law. Forced sterilization has been illegal since 1973. That's just reality.
Turtle_With_Grudge@reddit
Fucking bullshit dude. It was still happening in Saskatoon in 2019.
Ambiwlans@reddit
An alleged crime is not the same as it being legal or government forced.
moubliepas@reddit
Forced (sorry, involuntary) sterilisation is apparently still legal in many US states, according to a few horrific Wikipedia pages.
But only if the person can't consent, obviously (including if their English isn't good enough to give informed consent). Or if they aren't capable of understanding what's best for them or society. Or if they have a 'sufficiently serious' medical or intellectual disability. Or, in Ohio in 2004, as part of a probation agreement.
There are other reasons, but I got depressed reading the page and had to stop.
I_MakeCoolKeychains@reddit
My children were both removed at birth because my native ex wife has a personality disorder. Guess that's all it took back then
Turtle_With_Grudge@reddit
I am so very sorry to hear that. It didn't take much for removals from the sounds of things; and standards that were not evenly applied to all expectant mothers.
almost_retired@reddit
And it took Trump's threat if annexing Greenland for this "concession" to be made to the locals.
As was said before, what really infuriated Europe was that Trump started treating them like they all have been treating brown people for ages.
HalayChekenKovboy@reddit
Oh, definitely. It's so funny watching Europeans act like America has suddenly become evil. America hasn't changed, its targets have. In the past (and I mean until one or two years ago), Europeans too actively encouraged and took part in the same behaviour directed at other, "lesser" countries. Not so fun to be treated the way you treated others now, is it?
WannaAskQuestions@reddit
As the Canadian pm rightly said
Private_HughMan@reddit
He was, of course, 100% right when he said that. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like he wants to fix it. He just wants to return to the previous status quo.
Le_Sadie@reddit
Which real leftists were screaming from the rooftops from the start and immediately shut down by all the "elbows up" morons. Especially on Reddit.
Having a left would be real nice right now.
MyPunsSuck@reddit
Well the alternative choices for PM were significantly worse, so there's that
Le_Sadie@reddit
I voted for him too; PP was obviously a non-option and it was too dire a situation to fuck around. But that doesn't mean I had to start riding Carney's dick every time he made a little speech someone else wrote. Usually badly. Just because he's saying what everyone wants to hear but world leaders are too chikenshit to say...he's a conservative at heart and he's going to fuck us in the long run.
Private_HughMan@reddit
Yup. I should have listened. I knew I was compromising and he would be right wing, but I honestly never expected him to be THIS right wing.
RoostasTowel@reddit
What do you think your other option was?
WannaAskQuestions@reddit
Once again, not a surprise. Status quo is where he and his ilk reap the benefits from. They've all just adjusted to the "new normal". It was more a surprise he was willing to say the quiet part out loud.
If I had to guess our leaders have accepted that the buffoon isn't going anywhere for four more years and the strategy is holding on until the he leaves the office and they can go back to benefitting from the aforementioned rigged system.
Ozzy_21@reddit
Yeah, a month later after that Davos speech, Carney expressed support for the war in Iran, though he later walked back that stance as the conflict spiraled out of control.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Lol as if Turks and the Turkish state acts like temporarily embarrassed imperialists in their region. Not to talk about the genocide denial and suppression of kurdish rights.
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
LMAO, the Turks and Danish out here with their genocide olympics. Yall funny.
YourFuture2000@reddit
As somebody from Turkey, you should not be surprised about it, as Turkey also has ethinical cleasing politicts.
ThlnBillyBoy@reddit
I'd say the difference is Turkey gets a lot of flack internationally for their human rights violations, rightfully so, whereas Denmark and Canada has a much nicer reputation.
YourFuture2000@reddit
Fair point.
HalayChekenKovboy@reddit
Nice deflection mate.
YourFuture2000@reddit
As an anarchist, I have no need to deflect from any other country.
Hesitation-Marx@reddit
Solidarity and love from the US.
YourFuture2000@reddit
🫂
In-A-Jiffy@reddit
At least Canada teaches about some of the native genocide, and doesn't deny it.
Private_HughMan@reddit
We do downplay it quite a bit in our history classes, actually. I've been out of school for a while so I don't have much insight into how much had changed, though.
VikingTeddy@reddit
How is it a deflection? They didn't try to whatabout or downplay anything, just expanded the conversation to include Turkey, the discussion was already about other countries doing this shit too.
Why on earth wouldn't you just reply with a "yeah, it's fucked" and move on?
Piss_in_my_cunt@reddit
Let’s all remember Belgium keeping black kids in zoos in the late 1900s.
REKTGET3162@reddit
Late or early?
Piss_in_my_cunt@reddit
1958 world fair
REKTGET3162@reddit
Oh wow that was 58?
Piss_in_my_cunt@reddit
😬 yeah kinda wild to think about
wasdlmb@reddit
It took until war with Japan for America to actually criminalize slavery (it had been illegal but not criminal). External scrutiny can sometimes lead to good things
Snoo63@reddit
Isn't the "Slavery as punishment for a crime" of the 13th Amendment still legal?
wasdlmb@reddit
It's a form of forced labor but most people wouldn't call it slavery. It's quite common in many Asian countries, and Europe only phased it out a few decades ago
Snoo63@reddit
Section I of the Thirteenth Amendment reads:
Snoo63@reddit
So it describes itself as slavery.
wasdlmb@reddit
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude"
In English, the words "or" and "nor" are used to apply something to different concepts. So listing them both is saying they're two different things, neither of which may be permitted. The "exception" clause applies specifically to the "involuntary servitude" part, and we know this because it wasn't considered slavery when it was written. I implore you to look up when your own country abolished prison labor, and whether it was considered "slavery" before then
sad_cosmic_joke@reddit
The negation before the nor changes the meaning to "AND" which places slavery and involuntary servitude in the same category, meaning the exception applies to both equally.
TL;DR what's another term for "involuntary servitude"??
rice_not_wheat@reddit
I guess you never learned about indentured servitude, which was also legal, but banned along with slavery. The big, big difference is that with indentured servitude, ownership could not be traded, and the indenture had a fixed ending condition. Slavery created ownership at birth, with no end condition, and people could be traded like livestock. This caused them to be treated like livestock. It was far, far more horrible than involuntary servitude for punishment of a crime.
sad_cosmic_joke@reddit
You're incapable of having an actual conversation. Gotcha.
wasdlmb@reddit
In what world does neither x nor y somehow convert to and? It does place them in the same category, but that doesn't mean they're the same thing. "Neither cats nor dogs are allowed" doesn't somehow mean that cats are dogs. As for your tldr, no, slavery is one form of involuntary servitude. There are others, including indentured servitude, judicial labor, and even children working for their parents involuntarily. You can't just say that your definition of the word in 2026 is the definition the authors of the amendment were working with in 1865
sad_cosmic_joke@reddit
Neither can you....
As for your cats example, your being intentionally obtuse.
It places them in the same category of prohibited objects - that is the equivalency.
Using this example the exclusion in the Constitution would have to specify that dogs are allowed under certain circumstances.
The constitution doesn't make such a distinction - the exclusion applies to the previously defined category as a whole.
Neither cats not dogs are allowed, unless it's a service animal.
There is no attempt to differentiate between service cats and service dogs - they're treated as object equivalent.
To argue otherwise it's obtusely pedantic, ontologically dishonest, and comes across low-key in favor of slavery
Besmirching_Badger@reddit
UK would like a word. Very common here
theburiedxme@reddit
"As was said before, what really infuriated Europe was that Trump started treating them like they all have been treating brown people for ages."
This statement is confusing and feels like it's implying Trump is a champion of brown people or something. You know how Trump feels about brown people right?
AlmightyRuler@reddit
It's not that they're saying Trump is "championing" brown people. It's more like "The bullies started getting bullied by a bigger bully."
theburiedxme@reddit
No I get what they're saying.
Private_HughMan@reddit
That's how the colonial boomerang works, isn't it? We export oppression to other parts of the world. Maybe those who start it don't mean for it to be used against the people back home. Maybe they do. But regardless, people see it and learn from it. If Hitler did what he did but to Africans or Asians, no one in Europe would have taken up arms to stop him. There would hardly be any condemnation at all. Just look at Churchill. He deliberately starved ~3 million people to death, but it was in India (now Bangladesh), so who cares?
Im glad the Greenlanders got this. Fuck the Danes for doing this for so long.
RoostasTowel@reddit
So many comments in the past while about why would Greenland ever vote to leave denmark they love them etc....
But stuff like this has been happening ing forever and was laughably still a thing last year even.
SavannahInChicago@reddit
The truth is it never stopped. It was just hidden.
Tarianor@reddit
Calling it a "civilisation test" is misleading. It's a parenthood test that was implemented to test if the person is able to take care of their offspring. It was implemented as a response to a lot of neglected kids back in the days. It is also not jusy targeted Greenlandic parents.
Was it poorly implemented back then, probably. Should I have taken cultural differences more into account, sure. But calling it a civilisation test is disingenuous.
wiki
AuntOfManyUncles@reddit
*The tests are administered in Danish. No interpreters are provided for those who, for example, speak Kalaallisut, the mother tongue of most Greenlanders. Results may thus be biased against parents who do not speak Danish as their mother tongue, since this may cause Danish mother tongue test administrators to judge test takers as having limited cognitive abilities.*
This is from the opening segment of the wiki article you linked to. Whether this approach is intentionally colonialist/racist or not doesn’t really matter, the mindset is there and so it still amounts to a “civilization test”.
token-black-dude@reddit
There is virtually no higher education in Greenland, if people want to get an education they have to go to Denmark and take an education in Danish. There's unlimited access to danish higher education and people are guaranteed job when they're done. Greenland on it's own doesn't have the ressources to provide higher education. Yet the Greenlandic home rule government has downgraded danish education and thus created a group of people who have to go to Denmark without having the prerequisites to function there. This is incredibly irresponsible but something they can do because the alternative would be colonial administration.
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
If Greenland is such a burdensome headache that takes so much of your generosity and compassion without giving anything back in return, I wonder why you Danes want to keep it so badly.
_WasteOfSkin_@reddit
Influence in the arctic, national pride, and because no one really wants to see what would happen to Greenland if Denmark unilaterally expulsed them from the Kingdom. Lots of ethnic mainland Danes people have family up there too at this point.
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
Greenland is truly the cross that Denmark is forced to carry.
What a beautiful modern version of the "White Man's Burden".
_WasteOfSkin_@reddit
I intended to write a genuine and balanced reply based on my experience from loving in Denmark for 30 years, and my understanding of realpolitik, but sure, I guess you can read it that way if you are illiterate.
I'm curious, what would your theory be, and why?
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
Obviously the benefits of owning Greenland greatly outweigh the costs and the child separation policy is a time proven way to erase a culture/ethnicity that the Danes find inconvenient.
_WasteOfSkin_@reddit
And those benefits are?
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
The same ones that makes Trump want it.
Gabe_Noodle_At_Volvo@reddit
Trump wants it so that he can be put in the history books as the guy responsible for the largest expansion of US territory since the Louisiana purchase. The ship has already sailed for that in Denmark.
_WasteOfSkin_@reddit
And those are?
shadofx@reddit
Denmark needs an underclass to do is undesirable jobs. Greenlanders are kept hopeful that they can move to Denmark to work those jobs, so they won't want to secede. Greenlanders move and over time internalize a sense of inferiority, and they ultimately throw away their cultural roots. Or they get their children taken by the state, I guess.
Without a constant supply of uneducated serfs, Denmark would have to get those workers from their own population.
Bommelom@reddit
There's under 20.000 Greenlanders in Denmark, and in general they have significantly higher unemployment than the average Dane. The idea that Denmark needs Greenlanders to do "undesirable jobs" is utterly ridiculous - for instance, Danish farmers can already get cheap(er) labor by using refugees and/or workers from poorer Eastern European countries.
The main reason Denmark wants Greenland (other than the fact that there's nothing states hate more than giving up territory) is probably pride, as well as our politicans liking the fact that they get to be on the Arctic Council and pretend they're actually internationally important.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Sure, that is why we give Greenland 500 million DKK every year to better their education and economic prospects in Greenland. Because we want them to move to Denmark to shovel shit or whatever job you have thought up.
Pretty racist of you to think that Greenlanders can only amount to doing "undesirable jobs" like they don't have the intelligence to get educated and apply for good jobs.
shadofx@reddit
Upholding welfare system in Greenland is part of the Danish system. Too many desperate Greenlanders going to Denmark would result in stronger Greenlandic communities inside Denmark, which would make assimilation more difficult. Denmark wants to have indirect control over the rate of flow, and give Greenlanders the illusion of choice so that their hand is not obvious.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Wow, sounds like quite the conspiracy! So we both want Greenlanders to move to Denmark to shovel shit, but not too many, so we send the equivalent of 10.000 peoples yearly tax payments to Greenland to keep some of them up there. Very logical, very believable.
shadofx@reddit
Neocolonialism is subtle. What are your thoughts on France in Africa?
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
What is your definition of neocolonialism?
Jersey_2019@reddit
Greenland should be given to Russia at this point , or maybe joint US-Russia administration
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Oookay? What do you base this on?
Jersey_2019@reddit
My feeling duh or just make me king of Greenland and I'll rent out imp ports to Danes in exchange of yearly payment
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
What exactly are the benefits you're talking about? In strict economic terms, Greenland is a huge money sink with wide reaching social problems.
IntoTheCommonestAsh@reddit
Did you actually say "my understanding of realpolitik" like that's a positive fact about you?
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Many of us don't. They are welcome to declare independence and regress 200 years back in time infrastructurally and economically or become an American/Russian/Chinese military and ressource extraction outpost, if they wish to. It's completely up to the Greenlanders. Somehow they prefer to stay Danish when push comes to shove.
Tarianor@reddit
Because they're Danish just like us and we look after each other, I wouldn't exactly call them a burden. Until very recently they were just a municipality like any other until we gave them more self governance as per their request. Just wish they'd make up their mind about staying and receiving the support we're willing to give, or becoming independent and actually take meaningful steps towards that, like the Faroe Islands.
token-black-dude@reddit
There quite a bit of colonial guilt, the modernization was pretty botched and created a lot of problems, even if some were unavoidable. But the only real reason Greenland is important is because USA keep a military presence in Europe in exchange for getting access to Greenland. Also Denmark doesn't really have a say about the future relationship, there's a home rule law that allows Greenland to leave if and when they want to (which they don't), all it takes is a referendum.
champagneface@reddit
OK, if there is a test that results in you potentially having your child taken from you, something of that level of importance should be given in your first language, regardless of what opportunities someone has had to learn the language of the test
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
Nah dude, it is the non-white person obligation to know the language no matter how high the stakes are. That is how we check if they are civilized. We would not want monkeys raising monkeys within our midst, right?
Tarianor@reddit
People from Greenland are taught Danish in school and are also danish citizens. She lived in Denmark when they gave her the test so i would hardly call it unfair testing people in the language of the country they reside in and are a citizen of.
People on Greenland are treated alike to those in Denmark these days, in fact in modern times they're getting preferred treatment. Ancestry wise, a lot of them are also Scandinavian.
Greenland also isnt a colony in the traditional sense as it was settled by Scandinavians in the south first, and then resettled in the south whilst the inuit lived primarily in the northwest at that point.
champagneface@reddit
When people are in court, they tend to be given translators even if they’ve been living in a country for ten years and could be expected to know the language. If not understanding something has potentially massive and unfair consequences, every effort should be made to remove the language barrier
Tarianor@reddit
Like providing them with multiple years worth of mandatory school that teaches them the language when young, and free adult language classes as well as 5+ years of free translation services?
At some point its your own responsibility to either learn the language or bring a translator, just like you can represent yourself at court without a lawyer but it's advisable to get one. And I say that as someone who's lived in multiple countries and bothered to try and learn the language.
champagneface@reddit
Why would you take issue with the test for parental fitness being in one’s own language? I can’t understand that mindset
Tarianor@reddit
The issue with the test was that it didn't include cultural norms of the varying ethnicities in Denmark/Greenland moreso than language issues, and that needs correcting. I'm not in favour of this test, though obviously something should be done to ensure kids are not neglected, what the right choice is i will leave to those that knows more about the subject.
The "issue" i have with this article is they claimed it's a civilisation test rather than a parental aptitude test used equally amongst everyone in the country. It's not some racist scheme to unfairly target minorities.Then people latched on to the language part, in spite of the fact people from Greenland have been taught Danish in school and she lives in Denmark.
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
Exactly, specially because Denmark has no such tradition.
Forced contraception of women in Greenland
Tarianor@reddit
Funnily enough they also did that to Danish citizens at the time, both contraception, and sterilisation, thus I wouldn't call it racism considering they targeted everyone.
Also if you read more into the reasoning for the contraception in Greenland and the underlying concerns, you'd find that it wasn't done as some kind of racist/genocidal scheme either. That and it happened 50 years ago, cant really compare the present and the past like that.
ProudScandinavian@reddit
If that policy was strictly a racist scheme imposed on the Greenlanders by us evil Danes, then why did it continue after the authority and responsibility of the healthcare system was transferred to the Greenlandic government?
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
Why were many of the guards in concentration camps they themselves Jews?
Why were many of the enforces of Colonial rule in Southeast Asia locals?
That is EXACTLY how colonialism works.
ProudScandinavian@reddit
Please provide source on that insane claim. You might be referring to Funktionshäftlinge but those were definitely not guards. So please show the evidence because it sounds like you’re just regurgitating nazi propaganda.
Did these locals continue to enforce colonial rule after their countries gained self governance? Greenland handle all domestic matters themselves, and can gain independence whenever they want.
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
"When the state made this new law last year they recognised they were in breach of the convention on Indigenous peoples and maybe of the European convention on human rights"
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
The colonialist mindset is so ingrained and normalized that they can't even see it when they read it.
Infuser@reddit
From the article,
Tarianor@reddit
It's disingenuous calling it that by the newspaper when it's called a "forældreskabstest" or parenting test in English. It's also weird that the article is being brought up now as the testing got stopped over a year ago as an agreement between DK and GL.
On top of that it was only a partial victory for her in this case as they still upheld the removal, partially based on the fact she had been beating her 2 previous kids from what I read in local news.
chucksticks@reddit
I'm kind of curious what led to this practice to exist in the first, as crazy as this is.
YuusukeKlein@reddit
Race science and Eugenics, it’s been a part of pretty much every civilisation to ever exist on this planet
hl3official@reddit
A quick google search on social issues in Greenland will at explain it a bit. Some highlights include by far the world highest suicide rate(not even close), 20% of all children reports having experienced sexual abuse, insane alcolism rates, incest, mistreatment etc etc.
I am not all defending Denmark here, but I am saying that the unique social issues in Greenland at least offers some explanations.
Express_Spirit_3350@reddit
There never was anything or anyone more hypocrite than a "Westerner".
Mithrandir2k16@reddit
It's always the monarchies...
ohboymykneeshurt@reddit
It was wrong but it was not a fucking civiliazation test. Jesus f christ don’t just gobble up everything you read on reddit or the god damn guardian.
VikingTeddy@reddit
Eh, I agree that you maybe shouldn't call it something that it isn't. However though it might not have officially been called that, in effect it very much was a "civilization test". If you weren't culturally Danish, it was a lot harder to pass. You wouldn't even be given a translation if you didn't read Danish.
It's not like op is hiding something or being deliberately deceitful. It's still true even if worded badly.
Daysleeper1234@reddit
Well, my Turkish friend, let me open your eyes a little bit more, google history of eugenics.
YourFuture2000@reddit
They only banned it LAST MAY? And a "civilisation test"? What a joke.
And only because of political conflicts about proving to people who are the best colonialist of their nation territory.
That is basically how governments grant people rights and better living standard.
tartare4562@reddit
Looks like yet another instance of "White people telling the rest of world how they should live".
I wonder how many more "get fucked" we must receive from the random people before we start minding our own business. We're like the world's Karen.
YourFuture2000@reddit
It is the colonial educated people telling people how other people are forbidden to live in alternative from their colonial structures, submission and education.
They can't let a new future generation of native people risk of being raised with political autonomy education and consciousness. 🙄
Levitz@reddit
Do I want to look into how often this entails immense abuse?
YourFuture2000@reddit
As long as you don't dismis the imense abuse of our society, specially towards children, that is so normalised and ignored by most people, yes, we should always look how certain traditions practice abuses and how they should stop such practices but without the mean of erasing an entire culture, living experience and tradition of a people itself.
MechaAristotle@reddit
Are you by chance aware of a recent case case of the tragic murder of a native Australian child and the ensuing talks about care, tradition and social ill stemming from it? Your comment made me think of it is all.
YourFuture2000@reddit
I am not aware of this particular incident. But I am aware that some native tribes in South America literally torture children in rituals.
On the other hand, I also know many recorrent cases where children taken away from parents, because some parents are not considered to have conditions to proper rise and care for a child, are moved to care centers that are worse for the child, more traumatic, more abusive, etc.
Like everything, care, education, healthy, can not really be industrialised, each case and each person have their own phase, needs and development.
MechaAristotle@reddit
The murder had nothing to do with the culture per se, but it made me think quite a bit on how difficult it must be to handle circumstances where care for culture clash with care for a child's well-being.
Very well said.
tartare4562@reddit
And you'll be the one deciding what is abuse and what's not, I guess?
YourFuture2000@reddit
No. I work on an other profession field.
supamonkey77@reddit
Eh its an excuse now more than anything else, imo to use colonial education as the reason. I've had conversations with LGBTQ+ Asian folks and almost all invariably talk about white "liberals" correcting them(the Asians) about their experiences. How the way Asian LGBTQ+ experience and live their lives is the wrong way. How the Asian community is oppressed unless they follow the exact system, talking points, experiences etc that the white community approves.
Very paternalistic, very dismissive of others' experiences, very much present in 2020's.
YourFuture2000@reddit
That is the very definition of colonialist tradition.
EGOtyst@reddit
It's the very definition of ANY culture.
Always had been. It's people being people. Some of them are twats, in every culture.
YourFuture2000@reddit
Nowadays in the "global vilage" maybe. It is not an inherent aspect of humans. At least not according to the antropology works I have been reading in the past years.
supamonkey77@reddit
I meant there is something more to it than just that.
Riddles_@reddit
in what way? what you described is exactly how many indigenous people define colonialist tradition
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
She should have stayed in Greenland if she wanted autonomy.
YourFuture2000@reddit
I was talking about the future generation. Not the mother.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
If the Greenlandic people want autonomy, they have a whole country they can go to where they have all the autonomy they could want. Most prefer to stay in Denmark.
YourFuture2000@reddit
I never said people "want autonomy". I talked about colonial politics to ensure the prevention future generations to want or even be educated about the imagination and possibility of autonomy.
That is the whole point of taking children from their native culture, language, tradition and the learning of their own costumes and history.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
What are you talking about? Greenland has full autonomy already. They could declare independence tomorrow if they wanted to. They can take home any service which the Danish state currently provides, but they chose not to.
Costumes? Do you actually know anything about inuit culture?
YourFuture2000@reddit
What you understand by autonomy is not what autonomy really is.
Nobody has autonomy in our global oligarchy society. Anywhere it is tried the so called "civilised" people comes to bring "civilisation", "education", "democracy" and "trade", and other forms of domination disgused as good will from regimes of colonial structures.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
?????
Are you saying that Greenlanders prefer not to have education, democracy and trade? You are either insanely racist or ignorant. Maybe both.
YourFuture2000@reddit
You can't even grasp what I am saying because you don't have the education for that.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
And what education would that be? A masters degree from the school of "everything western is evil and colonialist"?
Hesitation-Marx@reddit
Y i k e s.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
big yikes to you too.
Hesitation-Marx@reddit
Elsewhere on this post, there is a Danish citizen saying even he and his colleagues have issues passing the test.
It is used to separate mothers and children.
And that’s okay to you, because she moved to Denmark?
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
I think it is good that parents get evaluated and their children removed if they don't have the capacity to care for them, yes.
YourFuture2000@reddit
Judged by questions made for no-one to pass the test except by the people making the evaluation decision.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Then that is a general problem with child protection services and not some evil conspiracy to eradicate inuit culture, like many people in this thread has convinced themselves of.
YourFuture2000@reddit
Sure.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
I'm happy we agree!
token-black-dude@reddit
In this case white people telling a contry with a massive child neglect and child abuse problem to please stop raping kids, and the local government saying "we don't think that a problem to be concerned about at all. Also, can you please keep sending us half our entire GDP in subsidies, please?"
Verodus@reddit
Sounds like colonial gaslighting
AlmightyRuler@reddit
There's nothing all that new about what "white people" are doing. Historically, when any group gets powerful enough, they start throwing their weight and telling other groups "how it's gonna be."
The Chinese did it. The Mongolians did it. The Assyrians did it. The Babylonians did it. The Greeks and Romans did it. The Persians and Ottomans did it. The Aztecs and Inca did it. The Iroquois and Comanche did it. And now the British, French, German, and Americans are doing it. Give it a few more centuries, and it'll be someone else doing it.
EGOtyst@reddit
Thank you.
token-black-dude@reddit
There are a lot of unfit parents in Greenland, and having an objective test is generally preferable to looser rules. Now these kids risk being abused and neglected by severely damaged people, or they risk being unfairly removed from capable parents. Try looking up child abuse or suicide rates for Greenland
sjw_7@reddit
Looked it up and both of these figures is very high. Is there any theories as to why they are like that?
token-black-dude@reddit
People lived incredibly close and there was never a minimal age of consent or a taboo against incest in the culture. When food was scarce, old people would kill themselves to conserve food. It was an incredibly hard life. And then alcohol arrived...
Big-Difficulty7420@reddit
Did they make home made alcohol from whale skin? I don’t think so… it was brought up there with a reason
AuntOfManyUncles@reddit
Amazing how every problem you cite happens to be the fault of the Greenlanders. Not convenient at all lol
My favorite is probably “and then alcohol arrived” because alcoholism so often comes up when discussing indigenous communities that have had their land, culture and identity taken from them.
I wonder what could possibly drive them to want to drown their sorrows in alcohol? 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Except Greenlanders haven't had their land, culture and identity taken from them, on the contrary they are the most succesful Arctic civilisation with full rights to independence, full language rights and a thriving culture that has persisted. It's quite offensive that you have to cast them as these weak downtrodden people because that is how you see all native peoples.
AuntOfManyUncles@reddit
Oh fuck off lol
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Bravo, what an argument!
token-black-dude@reddit
There was never a good outcome, when transforming a culture from essentially nomad hunter-gatherers to inhabitants of a modern society. Greenland is arguably somewhat better off than native peoples of Canada, USA or Australia, but that's not saying much. And they're better off because there really wasn't much government presence at all until after the war. The "had their land taken" is just incredibly off, concerning Greenland, the ONLY forced people movement at all in the history of Greenland was when USA built the Thule Air Base.
Private_HughMan@reddit
These aren't objective tests. They're tests designed to make sure the parents are sufficiently Danish and not too indigenous. They're tests to evaluate how colonized each person is.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Tests designed for parents that in 98% of all cases are Danes, are tests to evaluate how colonized each person is? Very interesting, gonna look into this.
Private_HughMan@reddit
Because it's designed for Danes to pass.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Inuit people living in Denmark are also Danes.
Private_HughMan@reddit
Stop pretending you don't know what I mean. The Danish government wants to supplement their cultural identity with these tests. "If you can't raise your child to have the RIGHT culture, we will take them and raise them as we see fit." It is just colonialism. Canada isn't very different. It is a horrible, monstrous practice. It has nothing to do with their capacity to parent and everything to do with making sure they follow the culture of the colonizers.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Ehh no, what is your source for this? It is the same rest given to all Danes, regardless of cultural or ethnic background.
Where are you getting this from? You're literally just inventing stuff to get mad at lmao.
Private_HughMan@reddit
The test is only given in Danish. No translators are available. You learned Kalaallisut as a first language and your Danish is weak? Fuck you! You don't get your child anymore.
And they include questions that have nothing related to parenting. How does the name of a staircase in Rome relate to parenting capacity? It doesn't. At all. It is to ensure you have absorbed enough of the desired culture.
But it is biased to favour people of a certain cultural background. This is like the old IQ tests that had words and situations that black people or people in other cultures were less likely to know, which resulted in them getting lower test scores. You give everyone the same test but the test is designed so that certain people do better than others.
Saying "we all take the same test" doesn't make it a fair test. If people who had skin darker than a certain shade, would that be fair just because everyone got the same colour test? No. Sometimes the test itself is rigged.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Yes, a test for Danish people are only given in Danish. It is Denmark after all. We are not an officially multicultural country like Canada. And yes, Danish tests for Danish people are centered on Danes with a Danish cultural background.
seiryuu-abi@reddit
Can you name all the famous stairs in Rome?
Dismal_Support9328@reddit
There’s a famous staircase? lol I think I’m plenty civilised and this is MY first time hearing about it
jelenjich@reddit
And who set that system up?!
KFSX@reddit
All of a sudden US citzenship not looking so bad lol
Dismal_Support9328@reddit
US citizenship only started seeming so bad when Europeans stopped getting special treatment from the US and started getting treated the same as how the US AND Europe treated the rest of the world
token-black-dude@reddit
After the americans (!) brought a lot of modern stuff to Greenland during the war, greenlanders themselves asked the danish government to modernize the country. That wasn't a danish idea. Also, thing were pretty fucked up even before, and creating a modern state in a country where the population is so scattered is extremely hard
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
The White Man's Burden
token-black-dude@reddit
For most of Greenlands history it was mostly left alone, with minimal interference from Denmark. The push to modernize came after the war, and not from Denmark. There was never a push to get danish people to migrate or take over, in fact danish presence was so scarce, it was at one point claimed by Norway
chatte__lunatique@reddit
An "objective" test only applied to native Greenlanders and not ethnic Danish, which is conducted solely in Danish, with no interpreters provided for those who primarily speak Kalaalisut, and of which the point is to determine how "civilized" a person is. You don't see this as problematic and, y'know, extremely fucking racist?
And I would remind you that two sets of laws applied to different ethnicities of people within a single country is one of the hallmark attributes of apartheid. You should do some fucking self reflection, because this all is the mindset of a colonizer.
Bommelom@reddit
So, while I agree the test is problematic, your argument is very wrong.
The test is not only applied to Greenlanders - it can be applied to everyone in Denmark, whether they be Greenlanders, ethnically Danish, German, Indian, Chinese or American.
The exact same set of law is applied to all ethnicities - including the law that the test is conducted in Danish.
The problem here is in fact that the test does not take into account cultural and linguistic differences - i.e. the exact opposite problem of applying two sets of laws to different ethnicities.
token-black-dude@reddit
The test is for everybody. If they only wanted to test greenlanders, they wouldn't do it in danish. It's unfortunate that some people grow up in Greenland without learning danish, when there is pretty much no higher education in greenland and much of the public administration is run by danes (because qualified native greelanders don't exist), but that is a choice the Greenland home rule government has made and education is a policy area controlled by the home rule government.
Killer_The_Cat@reddit
Why should Greenlanders have to learn a foreign language to have full rights in their own country?
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Have you not read the article? She was living in Thisted, Denmark
civodar@reddit
Nobody should lose custody of their child because they don’t speak the right language, if that was the case half of all new immigrant and refugee parents would lose their children.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
I wonder why that doesn't happen? Could it be because this greenlandic mother has already been reported twice for hitting her other children?
Dragonfire20154@reddit
Source?
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
https://www.kristeligt-dagblad.dk/liv-og-sjael/keira-har-kaempet-beholde-sit-ufoedte-barn-nu-skal-det-tvangsfjernes-paa-foedegangen
Dragonfire20154@reddit
This article really doesn't help your case. If anything, I am even more upset that this could happen to a mother. I have personally seen much less qualified mothers raise their children well
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Also this reminds me of the old "my grandfather smokes two packs a day and lived to 102!"
Dragonfire20154@reddit
My point isn't that bad mothers can raise good children as you seem to be implying, but that the mother in this story just kind of seems average. I have a hard time believing that she would be facing this kind of scrutiny if she looked danish
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Okay, you can believe and fabulate all you want, I can't really argue with your beliefs.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
And where do you live?
token-black-dude@reddit
There is pretty much no higher education in greenland and much of the public administration is run by danes (because qualified native greelanders don't exist). About half the entire Greenland economy is subsidies from Denmark. You're acting under the assumption, this is a well-functioning, modern self-contained state when in fact it's not.
Killer_The_Cat@reddit
Sure, you might need to know Danish to participate in government as long as its under Danish rule. But if you can get by in day to day life without speaking Danish (as evidenced by the fact not all Greenlanders speak it), its ridiculous to require it for parents.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
You and a lot of other people seem to not have understood that this case happened in Denmark, not Greenland.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
token-black-dude:
Is it possible to get the money to start higher education in Greenland, or is that denied the natives? Is this a case of the Danish government deciding that Greenland will get no money for higher education?
Hooray for circular logic! You can justify anything using it...
So there is no money for higher education in Greenland. Why does Denmark not allocate money or, if Greenland is basically not worth it, let Greenland have independence? Is it because Greenland has a fortune in mineral wealth and Denmark wants control of it, so an independent Greenland is not on the cards, and neither is Greenlandic education?
token-black-dude@reddit
The Capital, Nuuk, is a town with 19.000 people. That's one third of the population, by the way. There's no way to get all the different kinds of education a modern society needs, working in a town of 19.000 people and you can't bribe people enough to go there anyway.
People from Greenland have free access to higher education in Denmark and when there's still a lack of educated people, one reason is that people from Greenland also don't want to go back and work there. Or more specifically, they're afraid to raise kids there, since one in three is sexually assaulted.
finally "Why does Denmark not let Greenland have independence?" - Greenland has a home rule law that allows them unilateral independence - all they have to do is hold a referendum. They're not obliged to stay, but as mentioned, half their economy is subsidies.
ProudScandinavian@reddit
Greenland can get independence whenever they want.
Greenland already has full control over their mineral rights.
It’s funny how people like you can find so many things to be angry at without doing anything to educate yourself on how things actually work.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
What makes you think it is only applied to Greenlanders? The amount of disinformation in this thread is wild.
warnie685@reddit
What languages is it administered in?
Because it's fucking obviously not an objective test if it's administered in a language the subject might not fully understand..
coldfirestorm@reddit
Danish, as far as I can tell.
Work to adjust the test for culture and language have been stopped after wishes for Greenland government in 2025. I don't know if the new government see it diffidently. There are no new article about the test when I search for it in Danish.
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/regeringen-dropper-saerlig-groenlandsk-foraeldreskabstest middle of 2025
snowlynx133@reddit
This "objective test" was made for Danish people, not Greenlandic people. Danes have no right to dictate what a "fit" parent is in Greenland, much less claim that Greenlandic people are more fit to be parents if they act more like Danes.
And if you take Greenlandic kids away from their parents because they're "unfit", and give them to Danish parents instead of "fit" Greenlandic ones...that's literally genocide, by definition, and is exactly what Russia is doing to Ukrainian children
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
But they have a right to dictate that in Denmark, right? Because the mother lives in Thisted, Denmark.
NymusRaed@reddit
Danish People?
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Try looking up the rates of child neglect in Greenland.
NymusRaed@reddit
Ok buddy colonist
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Very colonialist of me to point out the massive problems Greenland has with rape of children, sexual abuse and neglect. It would be much better if we all just closed our eyes and acted like nothing is wrong. Quite like you Germans used to do!
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
Please continue.
Big-Difficulty7420@reddit
I’m so happy for her! ❤️ I followed her story since I saw the video of her daughter’s removal, which became viral a few days after she was born. It was heartbreaking. I hope they get reunited and get compensation for the suffering she endured. Can imagine being in her shoes.
imunfair@reddit
It's kinda messed up that she won yet still can't get her daughter back because in the meantime they made her take a different test and are continuing to use that to disqualify her from having parental rights. I don't think I'd have the patience for all that nonsense - that sort of government intervention is how you drive people to violence.
Big-Difficulty7420@reddit
I wonder why they hold on to her daughter like that. They will maybe never admit they were wrong and lose their face. I followed her videos and posts and she was saying how the foster parents use floor clothes as bib for her child and how their balcony was full of alcohol before the new year eve party. Her daughter was 2 months old. And yet, she had to be broken to pieces to prove how incompetent she was as a mother. Also her oldest daughter’a story is so sad, she got sick in the 10 years she spent in the system and never got the help.
Verodus@reddit
They also need to be compensating her and the child for the emotional distress/abuse. The first few months are a critical bonding time for mother and child and that's been lost forever.
YourFuture2000@reddit
It reminds my case when I filled all the burocratic information to receive my subsistence income from government and then have it arrived, and later on they claimed it was not approved. I won in the court that it was approved, one year later they sent me a letter to fill all the documents again in order to "have it aproved", which in court was already ruled that it was approved. 🙄
sjw_7@reddit
I can understand it if the parents are a pair of crackheads living in a filthy squat. But that certainly doesn't seem to the be case here. What kind of criteria did they use to determine she isn't a fit mother because wherever they have set the bar it appears to be way off?
MysticPing@reddit
Iirc it contains questions like what is the name of the famous staircase in Rome. Which is completely irrelevant.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/jun/29/controversial-danish-parenting-test-separated-greenlandic-mother-children
drink_with_me_to_day@reddit
I'd fail that, never heard of that staircase
WannaAskQuestions@reddit
That's it! Drop off your first born at the ministry office if/when it arrives.
Ambiwlans@reddit
I was in rome recently and have no idea what they are talking about.
RoostasTowel@reddit
I know they aren't as fun now that you can't sit on them, but did you really miss the Spanish Steps when you were in rome?
ThlnBillyBoy@reddit
If I had to wager a guess it might be the Spanish Steps 🤷♂️ Why that is included however I have no idea.
MysticPing@reddit
Same.
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
The goal is to separate the child from the parent. This is a reliable time tested way to erase a culture/ethnicity that the Danes find inconvenient. That is why the test exists and it is designed the way it is.
Bommelom@reddit
The idea that the test exists to separate Greenlandic children from their parents is utterly ridiculous - the test is a general parental test applied to all parents.
The test clearly as some issues, as 5.6% of Greenlandic children (as opposed to 1% of children with Danish background) were removed, but if the goal was to actually erase Greenlandic culture even removing 5.6% of children is not sufficient to accomplish that.
To be clear, I do believe that the test was unfair to Greenlanders, and that in several cases this was exacerbated by direct racism (i.e. the comment regarding the test being whether the mother was "civilized" enough).
However, I find it far more likely that whoever made the test simply did not take other cultures into account than they actively designed it to remove Greenlandic children.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Funny how you make up these completely untrue scenarios out of thin air.
IntoTheCommonestAsh@reddit
Just because you don't keep up with reality doesn't mean we're inventing it.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
I have literally followed this case from the start in local news and your delusion that the parentship test exists to "erase a culture/ethnicity that the Danes find inconvenient" is hilariously untrue. But as this is a hard left sub where everything that can be construed as "anti-west" is believed and supported, you chime in.
IntoTheCommonestAsh@reddit
Oh, wow, a whole year and a half! How cute! Keep on learning champ! We're not only talking about this case.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
You're still inventing a narrative out of thin air, babe.
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
Is the forced sterilization of the Greenland Inuit women by Denmark also an untrue scenario that I am making up?
Yolo-Swaglord@reddit
Yes even your own link points that out. Iud/contraception is not sterilisation.
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
Denmark Confirms Forced Sterilization in Greenland
Yolo-Swaglord@reddit
Lol. Even the article you link to links to another article about contraception.
An IUD is not sterilisation. After insertion you can get it removed after 14 days. Stop spreading misinformation.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
This guy is hellbent on painting Denmark like the conquistadors lol.
Yolo-Swaglord@reddit
The funniest thing is that he obviously doesnt read the bullshit he links to.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
This sub boils down to "west bad"
Morgn_Ladimore@reddit
Wow, so the government of Denmark did nothing wrong? Weird then how they issued an official apology for it:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yelp5466no
Yolo-Swaglord@reddit
We can argue whether or not it is ethically and morally correct to provide contraception to a population where 1 in 4 child experience sexual abuse from a parent or close relative, even when those teens arent legally able to consent without a parent or guardians approval.
Morgn_Ladimore@reddit
But I guess it's all fine, because it was actually just a forced contraceptive, not forced sterilization. That they still ended up sterile is just acceptable collateral.
Denmark systemically oppressed Greenlanders, and this is just a part of that. People like you, who ostensibly claim to be against all of that, but constantly wring their hands and try to come up with all kinds of excuses for blatant racism and discrimination, are a key part of what allows systems like that to exist in the first place
Come on. It's so blatant.
Yolo-Swaglord@reddit
Lol. Any welfare state has a vested interest in preventing teenage pregnancies. It is the number one reason why young girls drop out of education and end up in a life where they live off unemployment benefits. It is the same reason why the Greenlandic government continued the practice after taking control of their healthcare system well into the 21st century. Are the Greenlandic government racist against its own people?
Am i racist against my own country and people because i dont buy into a narrative created by ethno nationalist grifters and perpetuatef by moronic progressives. Lol
Morgn_Ladimore@reddit
You're acting like it's some complex situation that doesn't have a clear answer. Meanwhile, your own government apologized for it. That's an admission of guilt.
Completely irrelevant. Denmark did it without the consent of the women, with the purpose of limiting birth rates. Multiple women became sterile as a result. That's textbook forced population control. If Greenland did the same later on, that's equally disgusting. But that in no way absolves Denmark of their guilt.
You may have more in common with those crazy Trump supporters than you think. They also tend to defend the US's treatment of native Americans.
token-black-dude@reddit
It's actually the other way around, danish women who were deemed unfit to be parents were forcibly sterilized (after 1923 when the US closed immigration from Europe, before that they got a one-way ticket), it was pure eugenics, but Greenland was never important enough to get the same treatment. Women in greenland got IUD's, some without proper concent or information, but the goal was not sterilization or eradication. In Denmark, on the other hand, there was a clear goal to eradicate "bad genes" through forced sterilization. Danish women were treated much worse.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
First of all, it wasn't sterilization and second of all this happened to poor Danish women to largely the same degree. And thirdly, the IUD campaign was supported by the Greenlandic elite who saw that the introduction of modern medicine to a society with pre-modern infant mortality rates would lead to a population run-off.
ProudScandinavian@reddit
The policy that Greenland continued after assuming control, authority and responsibility of their own healthcare system?
Montylulz1@reddit
Love how the enlightened Danes were using the same variety discriminatory of testing used to stop black people voting in the US 100 years ago…last year
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
Wait until you find out that eugenics was an official policy in "enlighten Scandinavia" until 2013.
MysticPing@reddit
In what countries and what way? In Sweden we stopped the race biologial Institute in 1958. Or is there something I should learn about?
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
Until 2013, sterilisation was mandatory before gender reassignment surgery.^([13]) This last mandatory sterilisation has been criticised by several political parties in Sweden and since 2011 the Parliament of Sweden was expected to change the law but ran into opposition from the Christian Democrat party. After efforts to overturn the law failed in parliament, the Stockholm Administrative Court of Appeal overturned the law on 19 December 2012, declaring it unconstitutional^([14])^([15]) after the law was challenged by an unidentified plaintiff.
Compulsory sterilisation in Sweden
Yolo-Swaglord@reddit
Lol piss off. The women is a known child abuser.
Her 2 other children were removed because she was beating the shit out of them.
cambeiu@reddit (OP)
From a post bellow
Wiki
*The tests are administered in Danish. No interpreters are provided for those who, for example, speak Kalaallisut, the mother tongue of most Greenlanders. Results may thus be biased against parents who do not speak Danish as their mother tongue, since this may cause Danish mother tongue test administrators to judge test takers as having limited cognitive abilities.*
This is from the opening segment of the wiki article you linked to. Whether this approach is intentionally colonialist/racist or not doesn’t really matter, the mindset is there and so it still amounts to a “civilization test”.
moofunk@reddit
That seems like editorializing. Parents are encouraged to use an interpreter, if they can't understand the test, and each case is highly individual, carried out by local municipalities and locally available psychologists.
"Results may thus be biased against" makes it seem like there is a completely central authority performing the test, but that's not the case.
If an examination can't be carried out due to a language barrier, the examination would be rendered invalid by The National Social Appeals Board.
Again, not a centralized test authority. The guidelines are centralized and that's it.
XAMdG@reddit
By it being an Appeals board, it would mean that a decision had been made beforehand that needed to be appealed. You don't see how this is an issue that shouldn't be happening in the first place?
moofunk@reddit
There is a timing issue here.
The appeals information isn't public, but the history of the case stretches back to 2014 and 2015 because it was the same examiner then that carried out the test twice as carried out the recent test in early 2024 using the same methodology and had the same outcome all 3 times.
Therefore the Appeals board didn't find issue with the recent outcome, as it was considered equal to the past two outcomes. That was december 2024.
The law was changed in 2025, so that the Appeals board has to invalidate the result, if the test was done improperly, i.e. with language barriers and a lack of interpreter, but this didn't change past decisions.
The High Court then overturned the 2024 Appeals board decision in 2026, because it ruled that the problems with the test were known at the time of the Appeals board decision, and should have evaluated the outcomes differently and that the decision to remove the child was done on an inadequate basis. This means other cases from earlier times could also be invalidated.
In short, the big news is that a number of Greenlandic women who had their children removed on the basis of a flawed testing process could have the decision overturned and have much stronger legal recourse today, if it happens again.
The wiki article is at best out of date and is mixing information from two different legal eras.
Verodus@reddit
All a completely irrelevant, red herring. The test should never have been administered in the first place to her or any native. Saying they have a stronger legal recourse today is peak Dunning Krueger.
This lady had her daughter ripped from her arms by tyrants shortly after giving birth, has fought for a very long time to get her daughter back from the State, and despite winning in the highest court still has not had her daughter returned. The damage is done and can never be repaired.
The ability for the mother to bond with her child during the first few critical months is now gone forever. There is no time machine.
Agasthenes@reddit
Sounds like a good idea TBH. A nation needs a united language and that's a great incentive to learn.
REKTGET3162@reddit
By "incentive" , you mean taking their children away?
SavvySphynx@reddit
How much you want to bet that they're not actually from Germany and picked that flag for other reasons?
Agasthenes@reddit
Yes.
Dehydrated-Onions@reddit
Thanks GPT.
Yolo-Swaglord@reddit
The Guardian is extremely biases. And in general they have a hate boner for slandering Denmark.
That is why they are not reporting on why the women had 2 other children that were removed.
She is a known child abuser. Her 2 other children were removed because she was beating the shit out of them.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Yolo-Swaglord:
Source?
Yolo-Swaglord@reddit
https://www.kristeligt-dagblad.dk/liv-og-sjael/keira-har-kaempet-beholde-sit-ufoedte-barn-nu-skal-det-tvangsfjernes-paa-foedegangen
"It appears from the papers that Keira has said that the school once made two reports that she had hit her daughter."
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
You said her two other children - please go on.
Yolo-Swaglord@reddit
Lol imagine unironicly defending being child abusers
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
lol Imagine making stuff up and demanding everyone uncritically accept it as the truth… It seems there are a few people on Reddit who really hate Greenlanders...
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
This thread is full of upvoted comments fabulating that Denmark is out to erase the Inuit identity etc. Just the worst American propaganda lies.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
The test apparently includes the name of a staircase in Rome. How does that determine if someone is a fit parent or not? WTF are you defending?
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
Stop moving the goal posts, this is about whether the test is made to erase inuit identity. It is not. It is the same test that all parents no matter their ethnicity is subjected to if there is valid concern if a parent can take care of their child.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
It’s apparently demanded in a language she may not be fluent in. That’s a big red flag there.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
She is a Danish citizen living and working in Denmark since she was 18.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
No, it’s not reasonable to assume she is fluent, and a parenting test is absurd and has been ruled illegal.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
No it hasn't, the ruling in this specific case has been ruled illegal. The parenting test still exists. This sub could really do with a reading comprehension course.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Is the ruling that it can’t be applied to non-Danes?
Masterchiefx343@reddit
Asking for a valid factual source of someones claims and being shit talked for it is a paeak reddit moment
Own_Proposal3827@reddit
You’ve got it right. It’s not everyone else’s fault you can’t read Dutch
arjeidi@reddit
Imagine being so illiterate that that's your takeaway
World79@reddit
Oh no she only abused one of her two children on official records. Surely she never hit the other one.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
I spent enough time in the UK to understand that in some places they actually have a quota of kids to take away from their parents. If you’re not meeting your quota, well, just declare the parent unfit and them away regardless. I’m also intimately aware of the bias that exists against natives of any sort anywhere in the world that has been colonised.
They took a little girl away from her mother on the basis of a test in a language she may not have been fluent in, she fought it and won, and they are keeping the little girl away from her anyway, seemingly without reason. Such a government would think nothing of fabricating reports to facilitate removing children from their parents. Look up the indigenous child removal system in Canada or the stolen generation in Australia and ask yourself if you really support this, and if you do, why? Is it for the safety of the child or just because you hate the natives? Will you really hate the natives less if they are assimilated? No, of course you won’t.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
This isn't the UK.
She has lived and worked in Denmark since she was 18.
She also failed the new, reevaluated test.
Conspiracy theory.
False equivalence.
Yes we hate the Greenlanders so much that we pay for half of their public budget every year whilst giving them preferential treatment in access to higher education and full autonomy and a clear political path to independence if they chose to. Really evil hateful shit.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Hilariously, you are arguing for the removal of children from someone for the crime of failing a test that includes a question about staircase in Rome, and who challenged that and won in court.
Is Denmark systematically removing children from their mothers in Greenland? Yes, it is. You are defending that. That is nuts. It speaks to a deep-seated hatred of Greenland.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
No, not really.
Nope, wrong again.
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
The Guardian having a ‘hate boner’ for Greenland is the funniest fucking phrase imaginable. I don’t think they care that much.
Yolo-Swaglord@reddit
The only rational explanation i can giv for their shoddy, partisan and slanderous journalism when it comes to Denmark in general is that their must be an editor that is somehow still butthurt over the Danelaw. Hence 'hate boner'
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
This screams “I’m from Denmark and how we treat Greenlanders is fine…"
sovietarmyfan@reddit
I find it shameful that there is only eye on human rights abuses in the west and not in the many African or Asian countries. In East Turkestan and Tibet for example thousands of children have been separated by the state from the parents. But due to the Chinese influence in the UN such cases will never see the light of day, or media.
gregaustex@reddit
Digging into this, it’s pretty evil. The tests do not evaluate parental competence, or safety explicitly. They evaluate IQ, general knowledge of things, most people consider trivia (what’s is glass made of? What are the big steps in Rome called? Things like body language and eye contact), and whether you conduct and hold yourself like a Dane might be expected to.
This is far too much power for a government to have.
moofunk@reddit
Seem like no digging was done at all.
The tests are a guideline for local examiners to carry out to understand if a child should be removed from the parent. The test is provided as a service by local psychologists and they report the results to the local municipality, who then will work to remove the child, if deemed necessary.
If the guidelines aren't followed, there is a chance the results of the test are rendered invalid.
This is the completely wrong framework to think about here; First, it's not government as in the centralized authority, like your Federal Government. It's local to the municipality.
If a municipality don't have a means for understanding if a parent can take care of a child, then you don't have the tools to deal with said neglected child, once they might become a problem or they might become serious victims that require therapy and help for the rest of their lives or even worse, they end up dead.
You can have a process that performs a bad evaluation or violates laws (as in this case), even if the intent is to reduce bad outcomes for parental neglect, but the process has to be there to make sure that children don't end up lost to abuse.
The process exists for this reason, but it must continually improve to prevent situations like this.
There are around 2800 such cases a year in Denmark.
gregaustex@reddit
Hard disagree. The whole premise is flawed.
This Minority Report-like approach leaves too much up to subjective speculation and unreliable methods. The tests don't require any proven wrongdoing by the parent. The tests - unreliable tests - can be applied if an official forms the opinion that the parent is not someone who can care for a child "adequately" and are sufficient basis to take a child. I'd argue this degree of intervention should require a high standard of proof.
This case itself may or may not be a good example of how this can go wrong, but there's almost no chance it doesn't frequently go wrong.
moofunk@reddit
Again, you're looking at it quite wrong. This is not what's going on at all.
The controversial test is a small part of a set of guidelines used to fixate procedures for the investigation into a parent/child, to see, if it is performed correctly, because the work is complex and stressful to the parents and children.
The municipality doesn't have to use the test or the guidelines, because it is a service offered, but not doing it can lead to bad, extended outcomes and court cases, because the municipality social workers then have to play psychologists or the municipality resorts to inexperienced psychologists, leading to unrelated errors, and you generally don't want that.
This can happen, when the municipality doesn't have resources to adhere to the guidelines, such as paying experienced psychologists to do the work, fails to establish required frequency of social worker visits to the parties involved or doing case reviews at the required frequency, or they fail to advertise procedures to the parties involved to avoid misunderstandings.
It can be that money simply aren't allocated to the task, leading to a subpar investigation, while pretending to be doing it properly. You generally don't want that.
You can also run into problems, if the psychologists involve advertise the service, but are not competent to carry it out.
The process is not much different to any other psychiatric evaluation, which has the same degree of reliability and where mistakes are made all the time, but still under the idea that if they weren't done, the overall outcomes would be worse.
Verodus@reddit
Do Danes undergo the same test? Or, do they only undergo the test if one of the parents is a native Greenlander?
moofunk@reddit
Yes, they undergo the same test.
gregaustex@reddit
OK educate me.
Can a government representative decide to have a parent psychologically evaluated who has no criminal history of child abuse or neglect and is not charged with such?
Can the findings of this psychological evaluation cause them to be deemed unable to be a parent and result in their children being taken and placed into foster care?
Does this evaluation focus exclusively on relevant, dangerous, objectively diagnosable mental illnesses?
moofunk@reddit
No, no single individual representative does that.
Unlike what may be the case in the US, mothers and babies in Denmark are followed by doctors, nurses and social workers for a while to ensure that the mother can take care of the baby and that family relations allow for proper caregiving, and dealbreakers can be substance or alcohol abuse or reports of past sexual abuse or recent violence in the family. This work is required by law.
Then also, any citizen who becomes aware of abuse of any child under the age of 18 has to alert the municipality. This is required by law.
When an out-of-line observation is made, there is an escalation path from the observer to the Commitee for Children and Youths (every municipality has one, and these are the members in my municipality) that directs the social administration of the municipality (basically any government employee who had contact with the child) to do a closer evaluation, which again can lead to a thorough medical and psychological evaluation, if needed.
If the child is school age and attends public school, the school gets involved as well.
Yes, it can, when the psychological evaluation is used, but it is decided on a case by case basis.
When the work is done, the committee decides if the child should be removed and how it should be removed (because the legal rights are different for the parent for the type of removal) and where it should be placed.
So, that is in the end a municipal decision, but involves many people in many fields. Continued evaluation occurs after removal to see if the situation has improved and the child can be returned to the parent. That means the same test can be carried out several times for the parent over several years.
It involves any situation that could harm the child as the child's welfare is considered first, and the psychological evaluation is only one part in that process that may take place or not, depending on the situation. Most evaluations occur, because the child is the problematic part, not the parent.
In the above, I'm not addressing the shortcomings in doing the complete evaluation, meaning assigning enough manpower to do it, which may be for budgetary or resource reasons, taking too long to do the evaluation, failing to do reviews, or not doing a removal, when it should have happened.
Each municipality and even individual case workers may interpret the laws differently and sometimes different parts of the evaluation team plainly disagree on the outcome. Also, insidious reporting of abuse, where there isn't any. Then also, like this case, where the evaluation itself contains flaws in the process, not addressing cultural differences for the psychological evaluation.
The system is very complicated, is very far from perfect and changes all the time, but things would be worse for thousands of kids, if we didn't have it.
If you will, if you're looking for a systemic forced removal of Greenlandic children for some kind of racist reason, there is unlikely to be one, because that costs more money, time and resources than not having a problem there, and every municipality involved has been under fire for it.
Agasthenes@reddit
Honestly that's a great idea.
There are too many children "raised" by people who have no business being parents.
A basic civilisation tests could save so many children.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Is this sarcasm? Because it’s sometimes hard to tell…
Agasthenes@reddit
No it isn't. Children deserve a fair chance at life.