Why are mains in the USA called entrees?
Posted by mstakenusername@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 188 comments
On Australian menus entrees = first course and mains = second course. It seems like in the USA the first course is called the appetiser and the second the entree. I thought the first course was entree because it's the "entrance" to the meal, that could be wrong!
I'm just curious, because I kept getting confused watching reruns of Hell's Kitchen and hearing them saying "We haven't got the entrees out!" When people are clearly eating :-) Does it come from when fine dining was more complicated with a million courses and we happened to pick different names to keep?
JasminJaded@reddit
In the US, people don’t commonly eat multiple course meals. The entree = the first and last course.
We’re more often to get appetizers and dessert when eating out, so entree remained the name for the main course and restaurants use the word the way everyone else does.
Words evolve… in English.
Bear_necessities96@reddit
You know I always was curious about this because in Spanish “Entrada” is the first dish too
lucylucylane@reddit
Same in the rest of the world
YesterdaysMuffin@reddit
Australian food is like a snapshot of British food from 100 years ago when meat pies were really cool. I’m not sure it’s a litmus test.
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
Where have you been in Australia to say that? Australia has some wonderful fine dining restaurants and has food from all over the world, although at least in Melbourne we lean heavily towards Southeast Asian and Mediterranean cuisine.
And while they would not be served in a fine dining meal, a good meat pie is fantastic, especially on a cold winter day, with really well made pastry, and a nice beer.
YesterdaysMuffin@reddit
Been to Sydney and surrounding areas multiple times. Loved it thoroughly. The food was confusing.
Aussiechimp@reddit
Why confusing?
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
I actually haven't spent much time in Sydney! What was the food like?
YesterdaysMuffin@reddit
A snapshot of British food from 100 years ago.
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
As someone from Melbourne, that kinda makes me happy, which isn't great of me. (Hey, they have the nice beaches and beautiful weather, at least we can have the food!)
HammerOvGrendel@reddit
Sure, there was a Thai or Malaysian joint on every corner in Britain a hundred years ago right?
queerkidxx@reddit
Nothing is a snapshot. It evolved on its own trajectory, different from the UK. It’s the same in the US really. All three also had a pretty big influx of influence from foreign countries.
jastity@reddit
Meat pies still are really cool.
MattieShoes@reddit
Good meat pies are really cool. It's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy -- in the US where they're not popular, they tend to be bad. In places where they are popular, they tend to be good.
YesterdaysMuffin@reddit
That’s fair dunkum true, depending on where you’re from.
Aggressive-Emu5358@reddit
Idk, ask the French
FarUpperNWDC@reddit
In the stile of 18th century French dining, the entree wasn't the first dish, it was the first main course of several- the other main courses were eliminated, and we use the word entree for the singular main course now
animatedailyespreszo@reddit
Yes, in the US we dropped the rest of the dishes and kept entree as the main course. Most of the rest of the world—including France—did basically the opposite. Dropped the other main courses and entree now means the entrance to the meal.
Language evolves differently in different geographical regions!
Seeggul@reddit
Many US cultural norms came from us adopting European customs ~150-200 years ago and keeping them even when Europe moved on. See also: 'soccer' vs 'football', imperial vs metric, switching hands to cut a steak, etc.
Muggolotto@reddit
…switching hands to cut a steak? Sorry what..?
Spark-vivre@reddit
I was taught this in etiquette class as a young teen. It was tough to realize later that Europeans found it declasse (my keyboard cant do the accents!).
AilanthusHydra@reddit
It's how the knife and fork are held to cut really anything, not specifically a steak.
Most right-handed Americans will hold the fork in their left hand to cut with the knife in their right, then set down the knife and switch the fork back into their right hand to eat.
I don't do this, but keep the knife in my left hand the whole time and the fork in my right the whole time. It gets remarked on both by Americans and by Europeans.
Xylophelia@reddit
My British husband does what you do because it was too difficult for him as a kid to learn to eat with his non dominant hand so he instead learned to cut with it.
I’m a weird American who did etiquette classes as a kid so I definitely switch back and forth at dinner, but also eat European style in Europe without batting an eye. At home, I do what most Americans these days do and just slice as much as possible with the side of my fork and avoid knives in eating as much as I can.
haibiji@reddit
But you aren’t supposed to eat with your non dominant hand. You switch the fork back before eating, right?
Xylophelia@reddit
In the American style, yes. Not in continental (European) style. My husband is British.
https://youtu.be/rN_YVjEZ1zc?si=DbAgMs5LadRPzW1Z
4:12 for continental style
haibiji@reddit
Ohhh I get it now. I had no idea the European style was different
aka_nya03@reddit
both are generally accepted in fine dining but some people may be sticklers about it.
Illustrious-Shirt569@reddit
My mother-in-law is British, and even after many many years of meals together she is perplexed that I rarely use a knife at all. I find that almost everything can be cut with the side of a fork if needed, so that’s the way I generally eat. She uses both a knife and fork (tines facing down) to eat everything that requires a fork. For example, scrambled eggs are applied to the back of the fork with the knife and brought to her mouth with her left hand.
I can easily switch to that style, especially if I’m in the UK or Europe, but I like that my method doesn’t need two hands or create as many utensils to wash!
Karnakite@reddit
I keep the fork in my left hand. Got tired of constantly switching.
yoshiatsu@reddit
I'm right-handed. I cut with the knife on the right and leave the fork in my left hand always. I set down the knife and proceed to eat left-handed with the fork. I always thought switching was weird. I'm American.
Ok-Temporary@reddit
I do the same -- but I am left handed.
wfbhp@reddit
Wait, really? How have I gotten this far in life and never noticed other people doing that if it's supposed to be so common? I'm right handed, but I don't even think I could properly use a knife for food with it. I've always used my left for a knife and right for a fork, exclusively. Now I'm going to be creepily watching other people eat next time I go to a restaurant.
CinemaSideBySides@reddit
I learned it's one of those things that Europeans judge us heavily for that I have never once even noticed about other people.
TheDangDeal@reddit
I always thought the switching hands thing was weird, but I am a lefty who uses a steak knife in my right hand. Chef’s knife while cooking is in my left though. Then again I bat and golf right, and even use my right leg to kick…so maybe I’m the weird one. 🤷♂️
MIT-Engineer@reddit
This is completely new to me. I’m left-handed, and I always have the fork in my left hand and the knife in my right, as they appear in a standard place setting. It never occurred to me that this might be contrary to some social norm.
Seeggul@reddit
(am American) when I eat a steak, I will stab my fork into a part of the steak that I intend to cut with my left hand and hold it in place while I cut the piece off with my knife in my right hand. When it's cut off, I will set down the knife, switch the fork to my right hand and use the fork to pick up the piece of steak and bring it to my mouth. Then rinse and repeat.
I couldn't tell you that anybody actually taught me to do that, but it was clearly prevalent enough that I learned it that way by observation.
That said, I will say that the European style, with the fork always in the left hand, is not uncommon here either.
brak-0666@reddit
As a left-handed American, European style always made a lot more sense to me.
aznsk8s87@reddit
Right handed here and if a knife is involved I eat with my left hand lol.
GreeenCircles@reddit
Also left handed, and same here! Although I am equally comfortable eating with either hand.
CD84@reddit
American tend to use cutlery in a different manner than Europeans
GeneralELucky@reddit
Useless trivia: We never used Imperial. Both US Customary and Imperial (19th century) are based on the English standards.
Big_Katsura@reddit
Most of the “why does America do this weird thing” threads are usually “a European country did it first and we never changed it cause it really doesn’t matter.”
Atlas7-k@reddit
Imperial is younger than America. US Customary Units are based on the Winchester system.
Creepy_Push8629@reddit
You just said
And then
Isn't that saying the same thing? They both dropped all the other main dishes and just kept one?
This was interesting so please clarify for me 🙏
Xylophelia@reddit
The traditional French order of eating (tons of variation here depending on how luxurious the banquet)
1 Aperitif (why Americans call it appetizer instead of starter)
2 entree (a larger course than the aperitif but smaller than a main)
3 fish
4 la plat principal (main)
5 salad (added in the 1800s)
6 cheese
7 dessert
We went with 1,2,7 for naming our three courses and other English speaking countries went with 2,4,7
Creepy_Push8629@reddit
I like the salad after the main, i like it at the end. You end the meal feeling like you ate something healthy lol
Naritai@reddit
It’d be more accurate to say they did the ‘converse’, I believe
bendingoutward@reddit
It would be most accurate to say it in French, I reckon.
Sans_Moritz@reddit
The history of the word entree in French dining is pretty interesting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entr%C3%A9e#The_entr%C3%A9e_in_the_%22Classical_Order%22_of_table_service
It's come full circle from being named for it's position in a meal, to describing the sorts of foods one should expect, to becoming again a word that describes it's position in the meal.
tomcat_tweaker@reddit
No, entree is just bad spelling of "on tray". The main dish was big and heavy enough to be brought out on a tray. Someone misheard it in the early 20th century and spelled it "entree" on a menu. People thought it was fancy and French-sounding, so it stuck. And I just made all of that up.
InfravioletUltrared@reddit
Oh that last sentence is crucial
tomcat_tweaker@reddit
Cripes. No-joke zone I guess.
fishlim@reddit
I think you just phrased it a bit too seriously. People prob didn’t get to the end to see you were joking.
HappyDuck99@reddit
I kinda wish this was the actual explanation, because then it would at least make sense
Zephyr_Dragon49@reddit
We are at least 3 cultures and languages in a trench coat
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
Ah! Thank you, that makes sense!
mrsrobotic@reddit
Well said! Also your username made me chuckle, love it 😀
Donald_J_Duck65@reddit
Its only called an entree when they are trying to sound fancy by calling it a French word.
Ratatoskr_The_Wise@reddit
We call it that because Americans are uncouth dolts.
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
I don't think you are, I just spotted a difference and wondered why. I don't think you're wrong and we're right, or vice versa, just wondered where the difference came from and what the logic was behind it.
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
And like many things in the world there is an actual reason to it, even if it's not obvious on the surface. I appreciate you being curious and polite.
Many people we get on here choose to be obnoxious and impolite, with questions based on their own ignorance and false assumptions instead of curiosity.
We get tired of questions along the lines of "that word or that phrase is a stupid Americanism". Then you look at the history of the word and it turns out we didn't invent it, it was invented in England 100 years before America was founded. We just tend to hang on to some words and phrases longer than others and remain more true to our historical roots. This topic is a case of that. (P.S. Canadian usage is overwhelmingly the same as US usage in most cases. There are some exceptions but the overlap is above 90%. Probably above 95%. So even when it's a thing that "only Americans say", it's usually also said by Canadians, but that's usually inconvenient to people acting like that. Or they are ignorant that Canada even exists.)
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
Replying again to say thank YOU for explaining that you get rude, obnoxious people asking bad faith questions on this sub. Now I have looked at the sub a bit more I understand, but I have gotten quite a few replies that seem overly defensive, outright hostile, or like they have read criticism into my question when there truly wasn't any, and it hasn't been the best experience!
I wanted to ask my question here, rather than just ask google, because the idea of being able to ask a real person and have a genuine interaction appealed to me, but I should have realised that obviously trolls and/or nasty people will also want to interact with real people rather than google, but specifically to upset and insult people, and after a while it would be hard to tell the difference. :-/
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
Yeah, that's part of the problem. When you get enough of those questions it can permanently warp your view of people's sincerity. It definitely does for some people and sometimes they take it too far. I try not to make that mistake but it's possible sometimes because the way people word their questions make it seem more like an accusation than a question. Especially if you've see that exact same question 10 times before representing the same level of ignorance.
I do try to stick up for people when I don't think their question is really insincere or like an accusation but some people are less likely to give the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes I wonder if it's people being jerks because we're Americans or because the stuff they do in their own country is just very rude by American standards.
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
Out of curiosity, I made a comparison once with another subreddit, maybe AskAGerman, to compare the types of questions. I couldn't help noticing the questions asked by Americans there were significantly different overall. In most cases they were simple, practical requests for actual help or information. I didn't see a single one telling Germans how to live their lives or what was wrong with their country or that something they did was dumb. We would consider that rude by our standards if we did something like that. It's not our place to tell you how to run your country.
For some reason it really surprises lots of people making YouTube videos who travel here how open and friendly Americans are when they come and visit. You see it in basically every video. It's normal for us because we were always taught to treat people like we would like to be treated. Most of us try to be as helpful as possible. It comes naturally. It's the Golden Rule.
So we react negatively towards people who appear to be coming here to lecture us or to sneer. That's just plain rude.
(The number of moronic Germans who arrogantly think that their little brick house will protect them from a strong tornado is eye-opening. They clearly have no idea of the power of a strong tornado. A tornado in Alabama a few years ago lifted up a 30 ton girder and threw it uphill 30 meters. Another one pulled a 9-story hospital building made of concrete and steel off its foundation and twisted it around 10 cm before setting it back down. Another one picked up trailers belonging to 18-wheel trucks weighing 15,000 lb (7,000 kg) empty [and I don't know if they were empty] and twirled them around 50 - 60 ft (16 - 20 m) in the air. And yet those people who have zero experience with tornadoes are very happy to tell us how we should build our houses and what's wrong with the way we build them when they don't understand what they're talking about. Either about the power of a tornado or the advantages of the way we do build our houses for our conditions.)
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
We had another guy sneering about the fact that buses are required to stop at all railroad crossings here. He said it meant that our railroad warning equipment must be bad and unreliable and how shameful that was. He said in Europe they would trust their equipment and just go sailing through if there was no warning. It took me about 5 minutes of googling to find a case in France where the lives of six school children would likely have been saved if they had followed that rule. (One disputed question was whether the warning lights were working. They probably were but a bad crossing layout could make it difficult to see them. Either way, the accident would have likely been prevented by following the US rule because if the bus driver had stopped and looked, they would very likely have seen the train coming before it was too late.) That's the rationale behind the American rule. Do everything reasonable to prevent killing a bus full of people whose lives are in someone else's hands. Imagine being criticized for that.
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
(The number of moronic Germans who arrogantly think that their little brick house will protect them from a strong tornado is eye-opening. They clearly have no idea of the power of a strong tornado. A tornado in Alabama a few years ago lifted up a 30 ton girder and threw it uphill 30 meters. Another one pulled a 9-story hospital building made of concrete and steel off its foundation and twisted it around 10 cm before setting it back down. Another one picked up trailers belonging to 18-wheel trucks weighing 15,000 lb (7,000 kg) empty [and I don't know if they were empty] and twirled them around 50 - 60 ft (16 - 20 m) in the air. And yet those people who have zero experience with tornadoes are very happy to tell us how we should build our houses and what's wrong with the way we build them when they don't understand what they're talking about. Either about the power of a tornado or the advantages of the way we do build our houses for our conditions.)
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
It makes sense, we have some older words in Australia that we've held on to as well. "Reckon" for example, apparently it makes me sound like an old-timey prospector to Americans if I say, "what do you reckon?" but it is just a normal word here. Same for "fortnight," to me that is just the regular word for two weeks, but when I told an American I got paid fortnightly they scoffed and asked if I was also paid in Shakespearian money.
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
Yes, we don't use fortnight (really at all in normal conversation) but some people do use reckon. It does have an old-timey/rural feel overall for most people in most cases, I think, because you hear it in old movies a lot more than you hear it now (and depending on the character it can even feel old-fashioned in an old movie, when the character is rural). But I think there are some uses where it doesn't necessarily have that feel.
ALoungerAtTheClubs@reddit
No, there's a history to it that relates to shifts in French culinary practice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entree
srobbinsart@reddit
Come now! Some of us are quite couth-y!
groundhogcow@reddit
People different places use different words for things.
This one we stolid form the french.
You wouldn't tell the french they are wired would you? Because we normally do that and we could use a break while eating.
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
When did I call you weird? (Or wired, if that isn't a typo?)
This has been really interesting. I came here asking about a difference, not because I thought you were wrong or strange, but because it was different and interested me. A lot of the responses have been really defensive, or outright hostile.
pawsplay36@reddit
The first main is called the entree. And as it happens, a lot of American meals these days only have one main course.
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
By which you mean "almost all". 😄
pawsplay36@reddit
Fair. Unless you go to like, a banquet, or something.
shroomsAndWrstershir@reddit
I'd wager that even most banquets these days have only a single main course.
pawsplay36@reddit
I went to one last year that had two.
jda404@reddit
Yeah personally I don't think I've been anywhere where I had more that one meal at a time. Sometimes if I am feeling like a fatty I will order a dessert after, but that's rare. Sometimes we do get appetizers before the main course, but I don't consider appetizers to be part of the meal. They're just something to munch on while hungry waiting for my actual meal to be brought out.
ActuaLogic@reddit
Because that's how people talk in the US
Bulky_Luck5105@reddit
Australians don't seem to be aware of the fact that the English started colonizing North America 200 years before they ever sent settlers to Australia. If you don't think 200 years makes a difference, think about what England was like in 1826. We were England's first overseas colony, and it explains many of the different words we use and customs we have.
Ariel_s_Awesome@reddit
Frankly, I don't think most Americans know without looking it up.
Southwesterhunter@reddit
I always figured entree meant entrance to the main part of the meal, not the whole meal itself. Makes sense that America just kept the old French meaning while everyone else shifted. Language is weird like that.
CaptainAwesome06@reddit
Entrees were originally served in between the 1st course and the main dish (like a communal roast). When menus started shrinking and meals became less formal, the British and French moved "entree" up to the front of the line. Americans moved it down to the main dish. So neither are technically correct, relative to the original meaning.
amc365@reddit
Because they are.
waynofish@reddit
Because we are a different country and have our own ways.
Why does Australia not call them that? Simple! Australia is a different country as well!
Its not that complicated!
terryjuicelawson@reddit
I don't know why people take curious questions in the sub as a negative and give snarky replies. It comes across as weirdly defensive.
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
Sure it isn't complicated, but I find it interesting! Especially when we share so much common language, the differences stand out. I got curious because I could work out the logic to the Australian way (entree for entrance, therefore the first course) but not the logic to the American way, so figured I would do as the sub says, and Ask An American, and luckily for me some replied and kindly explained it was originally the first of the main courses, after the soup etc courses.
I suppose I could just put it down to different countries, but it's more interesting to find out why, at least I think it is.
Comfortable-Panda967@reddit
We’ll reveal the answer when you explain why you can’t speak a full sentence without an aboriginal word popping up. All other English speakers do completely without them.
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
Excuse me? Even if that were true, what is wrong with using words spoken by the people of this land for thousands of years?
Comfortable-Panda967@reddit
Then why can’t Americans call the parts of a meal something different from what Australians call them? We outnumber you 12 to I. We don’t answer to you for our language or anything else.
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
Um, I think you're reading a criticism into my question that isn't there. Of course you can call it something different, I am interested why the difference exists.
I'm still slightly flabbagasted at your question about words from our indigenous people. I'm trying to work out what your point there was, and hoping it wasn't a racist one.
Olderpostie@reddit
In Quebec, which knows a thing or two about the French language, from which "entree" derives, it is an appetizer.
Traditional-Job-411@reddit
This goes back to the French. For traditional French cuisine the entree was the first dish of the MAIN course. A main course would be made up of several plates. Before the main course was the hors d’oeuver.
Fancy meals became less plates. Now it’s just the starter, main, and then desert. France and the rest of the world moved the entree word to the first plate of the entire meal because it’s simpler. America kept the entree as the main and will call the starter hors d’oeuver still.
An example of the US keeping the OG meaning and the rest of the world acting all confused about use doing it and using the new meaning.
dontdoxmebro@reddit
The way Americans use our fork and knife also came from 18th century France dining etiquette, and the French later changed. Many of the early American members of the upperclass were Francophiles, particularly Thomas Jefferson.
MondaleforPresident@reddit
Generally the Federalists were Anglophiles and the Democratic-Republicans Francophiles. The Federalists got destroyed by the Democratic-Republicans after 1800.
RedRising1917@reddit
Tbf to the Australians, they also call it soccer football/footy is mostly for Aussie rules afaik, and their team are called the socceroos
zoidberg_doc@reddit
Football is also very commonly used for association football
googlemcfoogle@reddit
Yeah, I would attribute that one more to the fact that there were multiple competing forms of football in the 19th century Anglosphere, and once the Football Association was founded in 1863, its rules ("association" being shortened to "soccer") became the default for the UK and spread worldwide, leaving only places where another football dominated to use the word "soccer". Rugby is also a "football" but never became the default one in any country.
one-man-circlejerk@reddit
Rugby is definitely the default code in New Zealand, and many of the Pacific Islands
john_hascall@reddit
If you say "football" in NZ, people equate that with Rugby?
one-man-circlejerk@reddit
If you said "the footy" in NZ they would assume you were talking about rugby, but about 20 years ago they started renaming soccer to football, so the word "football" is increasingly associated with soccer
KesselRunner42@reddit
and will call the starter hors d’oeuver still
American here - actually, I'd call a starter in a sit-down situation an appetizer. An hors d'oevre would be more of a very small bite-sized thing to eat that you pass around at a party, you can just take one and don't need a plate or a fork.
LetterheadClassic306@reddit
interesting question. the shift happened back when fine dining had like a dozen courses - entree originally meant the course before the roast, not the first one. american menus simplified faster than european ones, so entree ended up meaning main dish here. honestly i've seen some restaurants try to switch to 'starter/appetizer' and 'main' but tradition sticks hard. you'll still hear 'first course' at fancy places though.
ATLien_3000@reddit
Why are entrees in Australia called mains?
coffeecircus@reddit
why do aussies call their male friends “mate”, when it means “to have sex with”
AskAnAmerican-ModTeam@reddit
Your comment was removed as it violates Rule 12, “Answers and comment replies should be serious and useful.”
Please consider this a warning as repeated violations will result in a ban.
If you have questions regarding your submission removal - please contact the moderator team via modmail.
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
Because we call the first course entree instead.
bloobityblu@reddit
When you think about it, so do we.
It's just that we don't count anything until the entree as part of the meal. The appetizer/hors d'oeuvres are merely a prelude TO the meal, and thus don't count either in calories or in words lol.
lloydthelloyd@reddit
So what do you call apoetisers or hors d'oeuvres? Do you call them breakfast??
bloobityblu@reddit
Okay so if you go out to eat at an average sit-down restaurant for an evening meal, which is almost the only place any of these words or courses even apply, here are the courses you will encounter and the words for them:
Appetizers/hors d'ouvres (this is usually finger foods for lack of a better term. Light simple fare, meant to be shared amongst the table usually)
Main course or entree (the main meal. Usually everyone has their own plate unless it's the type of restaurant where you eat family style)
Dessert or dessert (something sweet, usually cake, pie, ice cream, or some confectionary of some sort)
lloydthelloyd@reddit
Thanks you for attempting to answer the question instead of just being a douch about it (even if i was being a douche myself).
So from the sounds of that, you dont even have what we call entree? - we have appetizers/hors douvres, same as you. Then, sitting down we have a smaller, plated course, called entree. Then we have main.
While at some types of restaurant (often asian) there will be 'finger food' on offer as part of the entree, the conceot is definitely distinct from appetisers. Entree often has a soup option, pasta (in a smaller portion than if main), but is typically a complete enough cource that somone looking for a lighter option might even forgo mains and just have entree. We wouldnt do this with appetisers and call it a meal... Do you have equivalents for these?
bloobityblu@reddit
No, there's only one "main" and that is called the "entree."
Of course this may differ if you get into the upper eschelons of wealth/society, but generally it's appetizer, entree (main meal), dessert.
Of course our portions are ginormous lol. And main meal will have more than one dish/food.
_TheLoneRangers@reddit
We call the appetizers or hors d’oeurves
QuercusSambucus@reddit
And why do they call shrimp prawns, when prawns are something different?
lloydthelloyd@reddit
We dont.
ATLien_3000@reddit
And how do they define "knife", anyway?
John_cCmndhd@reddit
Spoon't
mrgraff@reddit
Noife
catatethebird@reddit
I see you've played knifey-spooney before
gratusin@reddit
Spoon
Pernicious_Possum@reddit
There’s “that’s not a”, and “now this is a”
bludgersquiz@reddit
It means main course. This is what it is also called in Britain.
krodders@reddit
In the UK (Britain is a single island in the UK), entrée means starter. It does not mean main course in usual usage
byebybuy@reddit
We call them mains sometimes, too.
jawshoeaw@reddit
Right ? I thought I was on the electrical sub
Doogers7@reddit
Because it is the “main” part of the meal and not the “entrance” to the meal.
jmims98@reddit
In most of the world, an entrée is a starter course similar to an appetizer in North America.
Unfair_Respond_175@reddit
Bullfrogs?!? I’d call them woozlewazzles
sweetEVILone@reddit
I’ve never seen it called “appetiser”. We are not anti-z in the US like yall are
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
I didn't even notice the spelling difference, apologies!
stephanosblog@reddit
you trying to make english make sense?
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
Ha! English usually does make sense... when you take the long view over history and geography.
Ill-Butterscotch1337@reddit
Because of the Great depression.
ALoungerAtTheClubs@reddit
The origin of the American use of the term has to do with changes in the order of French dining :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entree
Cerulean_IsFancyBlue@reddit
I love that we all get to have these substitute online social interactions, but, the fact that there’s a Wikipedia article that explains what an entrée is and how it has evolved … shows how much of Reddit can simply be tossed into the trash bin without ever being archived. It’s just people asking obvious things so often and so repeatedly.
ukraineball78@reddit
Yeah but I lowkey like the conversations people have, it's like asking about the weather to somebody, completely useless but can be a conversation starter
FreeStateOfPortland@reddit
Why do the Brits drive on the left? Some shit just is the way it is
CallMeNiel@reddit
Ninety-nine years ago a popular series of novels was published, so the whole series is about to end the public domain.
The first couple are fun episodic adventures that don't have much of a grand connected plot, but they introduce the characters and setting well. The third novel really kicks off the grand plot with many interwoven threads that mostly resolve in book 6. Book 7 ties up loose ends and shows how the characters' lives move on after all that. Book 8 is mostly fan service, relationships between the main characters, and some low stakes adventures like the first 2 books.
Since it's entering public domain, 2 different studios are trying to adapt the series into film trilogies. One studio is from the US, the other is in Australia.
The American studio wants to make books 1 and 2 into the first movie to introduce the characters, 3-5 into the second movie for the grand plot, and 6-8 into the last movie for the grand finale and happily ever after.
The Australian studio makes book 3 into the first movie, starting in media res, with flashbacks and references to some things from books 1 and 2. The second movie is books 4 and 5 with more flashbacks. The third movie is based on books 6 and 7, with one scene from book 8 at the end.
Book 3 is titled Entree.
_WillCAD_@reddit
I don't know where the words came from, but yes, the first course is called an appetizer, and the second/main course is called an entree.
HappyDuck99@reddit
But entrée means entry???
mlbarron85@reddit
Shower showerPp
TTHS_Ed@reddit
Why do Aussies call a grill the barbie?
ExultantGitana@reddit
Maybe it's because the Normans invaded and held power in the British islands for almost 100 years. A lot of our food items have French terms.
rawbface@reddit
Gordon Ramsay isn't American though.... This isn't something we did.
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
Sure, but I've watched his UK shows, and he doesn't use entree to mean the main meal in them. He also uses American terms for food in Hell's Kitchen, rather than the UK terms (eggplant vs aubergine etc) so I am confident he uses American terms throughout.
Many-Rub-6151@reddit
Why do Australians eat kangaroo?
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
I used to eat it a lot more, when I first left home kangaroo meat was cheap, while being naturally low fat and high protein. I'd go to the market and get a kilo for the week, and ask for half the kilo in strips for stir-fry or stroganoff, the other half minced for bolognese or san choi bao or tacos. Now it is an expensive luxury meat, and available in supermarkets.
gumdrop83@reddit
This might be a dumb question, but it sounds like there might be more differences between market and supermarket for you than I have in my usage. Is a supermarket not just larger?
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
The market is a bunch of stalls all run by different people, sometimes it is a farmer's market, but the one I am thinking of isn't. There will be stalls or shops selling fruit and veg, bread, eggs, meat, delicatessen, clothes, maybe live animals (usually poultry) and some selling ready made food like doughnuts and fried rice and coffee. You pay for each thing you buy at the individual stall. It's usually outside, but not always, and if outside might still be undercover. A supermarket is a single store, definitely inside, with different departments in the store, and you pay for everything together.
Revolutionary_Bee700@reddit
Because those smug fuckers are just boinging around asking for it.
aquay@reddit
i wonder this often. like, why are we using a french word for 'main course'? but then i'm usually in a restaurant which is also a french word, so i shrug and just eat my food.
ProfessorDull9594@reddit
I guess I’m not that fancy. No entrees. It’s just breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, or dessert. You could have a multi course meal, but it’s not necessary to be all formal, and name each dish according to it order served.
mstakenusername@reddit (OP)
Oh I specifically was thinking of fine dining restaurants. I have worked in a few (and a few not so fine dining ones!) and when I had Covid I binged Helms Kitchen on YouTube, and the word entree is used there, and confused me. In my regular life I am also a breakfast, lunch, dinner/tea, and snack person!
OodalollyOodalolly@reddit
We often use the term “main course” interchangeably with entree so we also understand “mains” but we probably just would say main courses and not shorten it to mains.
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
Exactly. You might hear main course but you're not likely to hear main by itself.
Stressed_C@reddit
Its left over from the 19th century French muti-course dining experience where it was the 'entrance' to the main meat portion of the meal so the main meat course became just to mean the main meal as a whole.
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
Thank you for bringing the facts.
PseudonymIncognito@reddit
Time to dust this off again:
http://languageoffood.blogspot.com/2009/08/entree.html
TL;DR the entree was historically the first of multiple "main" courses and served after the hors d'oeuvre and/or soup. As the shared roast was largely deprecated in American formal dining culture, the entree was the last main course remaining.
halcyondreamzsz@reddit
As an American this really tripped me up when I moved to NZ. I remember looking at all the entrees and being like gosh these really sure sound like appetizers.
prntmakr@reddit
“Boy, those French: They have a different word for everything!” — Steve Martin
BusinessWarthog6@reddit
It comes from the french
SaveMarioIncandenza@reddit
This comment is hilarious
ZJPV1@reddit
Ahhhhhh the French ......champagne .... Hasalwaysbeencelbratedforitsexcellence
LocationNo2127@reddit
It's not, it's accurate. Read a book.
SaveMarioIncandenza@reddit
Yes it’s accurate that entree comes from French. That doesn’t mean the reply isn’t hilarious
manicpixidreamgirl04@reddit
The entree is the first course in French
solidspacedragon@reddit
It's the first course in current day French. Like many things in the US, the reason it's done differently here is because everyone else changed.
Cicero912@reddit
No, it was the first main course
Hopeful_Pianist2621@reddit
r/offmenu - finally! I understand now 😆
MotherTeresaOnlyfans@reddit
The US also doesn't say "mains" to refer to the "main course".
Ghoulish_kitten@reddit
The French have a history here in the US whether they like it or not.
The “entree” was not an appetizer. It was originally a main dish with more to follow; the entree marked **the “entrance” of the main dishes**.
Upper_Extreme9461@reddit
This is correct they are called "entrees." I think it comes from the French word as others have said.
dale1320@reddit
A other example of being "divided by a common language. "
LOL
tigersgomoo@reddit
Because that’s where food belongs. On trays.
Littleboypurple@reddit
The French
Old fancy smancy fine dining courses used to be made up of a bunch of Courses. However changing cultural landscapes resulted in a shift in dropping the rather extravagant amount of courses to a smaller amount. Yet, restaurants and chefs still wanted to present themselves as high class in order to appeal to customers so kept the term of "Entrée" to sound more high class and authentic.
BuildNuyTheUrbanGuy@reddit
France
jmims98@reddit
It might be regional or preferential, but I have generally referred to the main course as a main course or main.
just_a_wolf@reddit
You can find in depth history of the word usage on Wikipedia OP. In short it looks like the etymology simply diverged in the past a few times and US and Canada has continued using one of the past common usages.
PuppySnuggleTime@reddit
The meaning just changed over the years in the US because of the way we serve our meals at home. Traditionally., they weren’t called appetizers. They were called hors d’oeuvres. (I don’t know where appetizers came from. It probably came from the restaurant industry.) they’re still called hors d’oeuvres in finer restaurants. After that, comes our main course, which would align with your idea of an After that, comes our main course, which would align with your idea of an entrée. The only other course we typically make at home is the dessert. So the main meal is the entrée in American home cooking.
So that has become the standard American meal, which has been mimicked by restaurants. The exception is fine dining. And fine dining, we still have all of the courses that the French serve.
big_sugi@reddit
It’s a remnant of the old multi-course meal service going back to the 19th century, when every fine dining meal used French terms and started with soup, then fish or hors d’oeuvres, then a more substantial entree, followed by the roast, then the dessert. Cheese, salads, and nuts would fit in various places.
As the 20th century dawned, the courses were cut down. The roast disappeared/was merged with the entree, and the entree became the main course.
Here’s one write-up: https://casaschools.com/blog/why-americans-say-entree-for-main-course/
AchtungCloud@reddit
According to a quick Google search:
The meaning of entree shifting from the literal meaning of being the first course to also being associated with the type of dishes being served during this course, often being meat. And it had in fact become the second course after the potage around the 17th century.
By the 20th century, as meals became less formal, the entree began to be used again by its literal meaning of the first course in most of the world. But in the US, it kept being associated with protein/meat dishes which became associated with the main course of a meal.
AshDenver@reddit
Have you seen our entrees? Huge. Even the things we call appetizers are huge. Smaller than our entrees but still a LOT.
Frequently, I will have an appetizer as my entire meal.
Teknicsrx7@reddit
Depends on where you eat, there’s plenty of places where are entrees are nowhere near huge.
Round-Lab73@reddit
According to Wikipedia, since entrées used to be a fairly heavy dish at one point in old-style French meals, the term in the US eventually came to mean the biggest dish of the meal regardless of when it was served
Aschuff@reddit
I think appetizers are mostly optional and a lot of people don’t bother getting them. So we wouldn’t actually call the “main” portion of the meal the second course because for a lot of people, it’s the only course. Why it’s actually called “entree” though, I’m not sure I don’t know the etymology
trugrav@reddit
It’s because in traditional dining the entree was the first main course.
Phoenix_Court@reddit
It comes from back when meals had many courses. Entree was a small dish eaten before the meal. However when meals were simplified and became 3-4 courses at most the word entree was kept for the main dish and the word appetizer (which previously was a small snack served even before the "entree") was kept.
CuppaJoe11@reddit
They arent... kind of. At some establishments there is an appetizer, entree, main course, dessert, etc.
But most places drop the main course because the entrees are usually big enough to be a full meal.