The b58 blew up in popularity due to its reliability and honestly, those vehicles aren’t that much more expensive than top trim Toyotas and Hondas. I think they’ve established themselves as the reliable but luxury option to have.
They are moving away from the 40i name and replacing it with the "50" name on the new refreshed models.
The X3 M50 is the same as the X3 M40i.
They will also be replacing the M340i with the M350 come the Neue Klasse gas 3 series.
I mean in BMW's history it must be one of the best, and compared to Audi it's definitely the better turbo-6. With Mercedes I'd say about equal but the B58 is up on power and efficiency.
While it’s not the majority of sales, you can get a B58 is so many different models.
It means parts are plentiful, dealers/mechanics know how to service them, DIY guides, great aftermarket.
It’s not BMWs best engine but it’s arguably their most impactful engine.
(Former) Audi tech here. The internal collapse of the product line from 2024 onward has been incredibly destructive towards customers. Untested systems, crappy styling and immense decline in build quality. The Q4 Etron was the start, but it got far far worse.
I saw new cars with problems we've never seen before. Egregious build issues, wiring and software faults. Brand new PDI cars bricked.
The B9.5 to B10 chassis move was the biggest betrayal for owners and techs Audi could've pulled. Even in launch training all of us experienced guys were like "this is an UPGRADE?"
ZF8. Gone. 6 piston brakes on S4/5/SQ5? Gone. Premium interior with dials, and buttons? Gone. Good seats? Gone.
Audi will need an entire lineup overhaul to correct this course, but sadly it's positioned for a massive crash. Audi had a huge boom from 2008-2020. Rightly so. But they killed nearly every unique model. No convertible. No halo car. No more coupes. No wagons for the US (once the RS6 is dead).
Sad
I also wonder if BMW keeping the manual option alive bought them some credibility among enthusiasts. Regardless of what the real take rate is, having it as an option gets you enthusiasts who may buy one fun car and one family car. Porsche is one other company that has done pretty well (over the past 5 years, not sure if last year is a fluke or not yet) while keeping a manual option alive and showing they care about enthusiasts, even if the Cayenne and Macan are 80% of their sales volume.
Eh just personal taste then I guess. I thought it was post 2018 that they started adding the gloss black plastic interior everywhere and that is my least favorite aesthetic choice probably of all time when it comes to a car interior. So I guess it started whenever they started adding that garbage lol
Our company had up to 95% Audis as leased cars for employees, from A3 to SQ8, including some electric version
That turned into them being now banned because they had so many issues in the last 3 years
Audi design language hasn’t changed in 15 years. Add on top of that a super confusing model naming system and lackluster interiors that just feel super dated.
They screwed up even/odd being gas/ev and made it very confusing. Q4/Q8 were EVs, but now 3 and 5 will be EVs and the 8 is a ICE vehicle. I think they did the same with A. After having the EV's being named just "e-tron" at the start.
You dont know if a vehicle is gas or EV by the name alone.
Not substantially, but the vehicles move up in size as you go up in numbers. If you want faster, you get an m. If you want bigger, you get a higher number.
It’s more about how a brand portrays itself to the consumer. You and I understand there’s a difference. They don’t do a great job showing it between the A and S models.
2 series, bigger than 1 series but smaller and less luxurious than 3 series, last two digits mean engine size power which starts small and gets bigger as the engine gets more cylinders and more power (this is true even accounting for the 2 GC), and the line culminates in both power and luxury in the single number, which holds true across BMW’s line when M(n) is available.
Are you saying you can't do the same thing for audi?
Are you going to say the 4 series is bigger than the 3 or the 8 bigger than 5/7? Idk how you look past the slew of inconsistencies.
Please read more carefully the post you are criticizing, and what it is immediately responding to. The person is saying BMW’s naming system makes less sense than Audis.
Unfortunately, their branding has made it that was. S means almost nothing. With BMW, they know M means performance. They’ve branded it that way forever and people understand it. That’s the issue.
That’s just it though, that’s part of the problem. Theres no consistency, but their naming system isn’t unique. This problem extends far beyond Audi, though. Just look at the damn Camry trims, lol.
A for sedans, Q for SUVs, and an S/RS prefix for performance models. Doesn't seem hard.
At any rate, consumers aren't trying to master the nomenclature of every manufacturer. It's easy enough to use google/edmunds, etc., and find competitors for whatever segment you're shopping for.
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I think the issue is there's too many numbers for their series.
BMWs makes more sense, 2 series their budget coupe, 3 series entry level sedan, 4 mid size coupe, 5 series mid size sedan, 6 used to be 5 series coupe, 7 series flagship sedan, 8 series flagship coupe
I can't easily figure out what all their number series means
There’s some confusion at BMW too The 2 series is actually BMWs entry level sedan but it has no relation to the 2 series coupe despite having the same name. It’s actually a completely separate FWD platform
The design language has changed significantly, you can easily tell new generation cars like the A5, Q5 and A6 from their predecessors. They don’t change as drastically as BMW from gen to gen but that’s not a problem as long as they’re new enough.
The worse interiors are likely a reason why some customers are switching and hopefully that will be rectified soon with VW’s wider push to up the quality and the Concept C hinting at a return to better materials and more physical switchgear.
There’s always reasons that are harder to identify which could be contributing as well. BMW generally seem to be better at marketing and creating months long hype for new releases - e.g. we’ve heard about Neue Klasse for years before the iX3 and i3 launched while they’ve been very good at rolling out new models globally at similar times to capitalise on the hype. Audi can often delay releases for ages in some markets - it took them years to fully launch the Q4 globally when it was their first truly mainstream EV.
Having owned both, I wouldn't buy a BMW again.
I had my Q5 TDI for 7 years, and never had an issue with it.
I've had the 330i for about 18 months and have had several minor issues (sensors reading incorrectly, back up camera works about 1/3 of the time).
It is a lot of fun to drive, but I wouldn't buy another.
Despite the very controversial decisions by BMW, they seem to be the item to have.
G80 M3's have moved past just niche car community cars, they are now ridiculously popular on social media.
Can't really fault BMW, what they are doing seems to be working, and the buyers love them.
The current and upcoming RS5, and current RS3 are certainly more objectively pleasing then the M2 and M3.
But I guess the M2 and M3 are simply way better cars in every other way.
The problem is that you have to sit in the vehicles as you drive them.
Mercedes "creaky futuristic strip bar" motif for its interiors lately doesn't do it for me.
Ok it's way better looking than the BMW coupes. And do I actually like the G05 X5. So maybe none was doing a lot of heavy lifting.
In MB's case they axed the pillar-less coupe thing for the CLE which was basically a staple of the CLK/E-coupe since... well forever - so I'm out.
Well the M3 is overall a fantastic car. The front grill is divisive, those who hate it *really* hate it, but that’s about the only issue I can think of.
Saw an M440i on the road today. Fuckin cheap black plastic rear diffuser screams “budget overrun so we’re saving $400 off build cost to hit our profit margin.” Like W. T. F.
I think the M3 basically having no competition (the C63 and RS4/5 don't deserve to be classified as competition IMO) kind of means BMW can make it look horrendous and still have people lining up to buy it. It also doesn't help that past M3s have always looked stellar, so that just makes the transition more jarring.
I mean the G80 does get TikTok clout for its performance but who knows if it's really for that or just because they're advertised as and look like fast cars.
I mean the B58 also gets a cult worship following and I see people who think it can make 800HP without supporting mods, some even claiming it's better than the S58 befause of the hype.
Just look at the Supra fanboys or the way people act around Quattro, videos of an Audi driving in snow with phonk get a bunch of people commenting about Quattro superiority not even realizing the A4 doesn't even use proper Quattro and how much tires matter.
It's all marketing the same way Mercedes AMGs get hyped for performance and being "mean", the same way Maybach gets hyped for luxury and the same way the M Division gets hyped for performance as well as Audi RS.
Don't get me wrong they're great cars (most of them anyway) but once TikTok starts hyping it's not anymore about the actual engineering or Performance it's perception and how much money you spent. Large horsepower numbers in recent cars also hasn't helped since now people act like anything below 400WHP is slow even if a 300WHP car that's much lighter will easily crush it.
>videos of an Audi driving in snow with phonk get a bunch of people commenting about Quattro superiority not even realizing the A4 doesn't even use proper Quattro and how much tires matter.
It's the same folks on r/whatcarshouldibuy recommending AWD and shit tires. It's utter stupidity. Straight up marketing. Dealers get in on it too by saying "AWD is safer" but can't explain how.
wont in that conversation a vette be in the running
a M3 is more about the refinement and more than just straight line performance
although that gap IMO is smaller than it is before but hey
I personally think the M-Performance ones got a lot better looking in 2025. Enough so that I bought an i4 M50 (though the picture below is of an M440i).
https://prod.cosy.bmw.cloud/bmwusa/cosySec?COSY-EU-100-1713kmbZb2UCeOzVsMeMZpVu24kh5WXBLRZhKK3fAT75Lh%25g2RHoOymFT9MV6Q%25eKSvgEhrYirVR7JDgwwfUdGUY7WH0PN3Cg161BILOXIevTtKZdXbPjDV3BbGQuZI7sufUnQY4WnA%25pYsMLpjk6HWTQ1CNcILRUFcBh1Q9%25DhmNFUSkl3rBy%25O2x5Pm5k67oiFRW2E4dVD877KMgIl5Q4qTwYxgPMXRNso0eT89BWd0qRHSmLhK39zOrQ3GeSv6PU5fDOtEJ%25ij660KakVEtEeqG2IMYKyXf7YTOqZ8A4sWGXbHjMWU88uzCTL%258HnvcRAyuzpth9jVXv103SC98tFe5OcsX0Dyi6h5%25elZVE3iEyxbIK5VsZouYqiIubdnsXVYOugpW8IPpnw1LHX8OpNFQz8761BDUvHHxFml%25tzUSDrxk0v%25glPo2etkNxJd7y04Foag4ZeYPdGwMbyUEgfNTuZtDwABRnbqTNjm9puvHBCrS1vGgmcPOFtiyrhJ6D08NP3aEleNIJ5GKxyDuaifqowDuGVAXdNoWfIj8gBdrAYCHwmgFjsczNryFCWhvBPABcL3tmJPhhQ50raGC3UiePGJt5%25VyJfohikIZaBrwV2YbGmjcI7sufYbkY4WnAsegsMLpjWzrWTQ1CLvMLRUFcQtAQ9%25DhU3WUSuXJImrLt8K%25PWL%25Svg1oH%25vORYw55sMe72Hm%25WIJZCgf%25gzsWLwo0zAsCb7nl0odyxcISAXsZ09Ikk6p6lACfxU
The problem, if you could call it that, is that the old style grill was too successful. They put the same version of it on every single vehicle and sold literal millions of them over the course of years. They all look good, but after a while they sort of blend together and it was so successful that kia poached the designers and started copying them, which is why I think they overreacted.
If they had introduced some wider grills on the upper models, some smaller ones on the lower models, bigger ones on the SUVs, I think it would have done a lot better creating more distinct product lines while still being identifiable BMW styling. Because right now every model is so different that the design language across the brand is completely incoherent, and even across different trims of the same model. You've got tall, tall and wide, wide, one that is tiny, some that haven't been updated, frameless, black frame, silver frame, pointed edges, its quite frankly a complete mess. The only way to really sort them is by how different they are from the standard design of the mid 2010s, increasing in difference the newer you get.
It isn't the best on the non M 4s but I also don't think it's anywhere near as bad as people online make out, they photograph way worse than the look in real life.
Also it really doesn't help that we were coming from the f32 and really the whole of that generation which I think have one of the best looking front ends bmw has ever made.
Financing offers can make a big difference.
It was a big contributor to me picking the WRX over GRC.
I got 0% for 72 months, the GRC would have been 6% for 72 months at a minimum.
Ugly design choices backed by a phenomenal engine. Vastly improved reliability and solid build quality. People are just accepting ugly (not all BMW’s are necessarily ugly) vehicles that drive well and are reliable.
The Q8 is still identical to the 2019 model with the mildest of mild refreshes done (grill and taillights only) and it wasn’t particularly modern when it launched.
It's because the car as a product is superior. Better engines, motors, brakes, reliability. The "fuglier than sin" aspect is mostly ignored in favor of just how solid the cars are.
I will say they *really* are pushing what they can get away with though with the all the recent cost cutting, though. The facelifted i4 interior and new X3 are kia from 2016 levels of cheap. I fucking hate it.
The thing is once you past the warranty period, all bets are off. Audi has the more reliable powertrain. Even the "reliable" B48 BMW is putting in so many cars is summoning thousands of dollars in repairs at just 60k mi.
For leasing, 100% understood. BMW is a more compelling offer with fewer short-term issues. But long-term? Audi has the more reliable powertrain for sure. I would lease a BMW. But I would buy an Audi off-lease.
People are talking about m3s and other enthusiast models here but the sheer number of X3s, X5s, i4s and fewer iXs I see on the road here around the bay area is crazy. The i4 is supposed to be a great EV which I think is a huge contributor to their sales here in the US. They seemed to have a good grasp on the higher end market for normal people wanting a SUV/EV.
I have the now last gen Audi A6. We just swapped our Mercedes GLE for a BMW IX because the Audi offerings are trash. I’ll be swapping my A6 once I decide on what I want but I know it won’t be another Audi. Not because of anything wrong with mine but purely because there’s nothing attractive from them to replace it with. Most likely I’ll be getting another BMW or a Porsche.
> Not because of anything wrong with mine but purely because there’s nothing attractive from them to replace it with.
Same feeling with Jaguar, after three Jaguars. I'll definitely get another one in the future, but probably a more vintage model for some *classic* styling. We'll see how the EV transition treats them (or doesn't).
I test drove a 330i and a C300 before I got my A5. Mercedes creaked and rattled like a 90's Taurus, and the BMW, while quiet, just looked bland.
My interior has been absolutely rattle free, and all the touch points, button feedback, etc., is on point.
To each their own. "heinous" seems like a wild exaggeration though.
Does yours have the flat Audi Sticker on the steering wheel and the steering wheel volume control as touch?
Cause I loved my 2017 Q5 interior but the new Q6 has an AWFUL interior thats a downgrade in every single sense
I don’t know how Audi is today. But I bought a brand new A5 in 2010. That thing burned oil and i had to top it off every 1,000 miles. Huge pain in the ass. Then the fuel pump failed. Dealer replaced the fuel pump and two years later it failed again. Im never buying another Audi again.
Agreed with the newer models. That all screen look is abominable. I'm buying out my lease next month, and they tried to get me to "upgrade" to the newer version, but that new interior just does not do it for me.
To be fair, the [new BMWs are also all screen](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/2025-bmw-x3-xdrive30-161-687fee6b6007a.jpg?crop=1.00xw:0.847xh;0,0.153xh&resize=980:*) and people can't get enough.
Yeah I hate that curved ugly screen, it was much better before LCI, and I also think neue klasse is an improvement, but I'd still pick it over Audi and Mercedes
Just picked up a 2026 q7 for my wife. Sales guy was trying to push a q5 on us. Sat in both and the new platform is just so much cheaper. The gear shift in the q5 was a rinky dinky plastic knob that rattled where as in the q7 which is still on the older gen platform has a nice leather and aluminum gear shift. Was an easy decision.
Audi blew it with the fully digital interfaces. Add that to boring lineup and the general drop on quality that's prevalent in most manufacturers these days, not surprised. They had such a great lineup 10 years ago.
Isn't BMW fully digital too? I rented a 3 series in October and it had that **giant** dash display that stretched over to the center console area. Meanwhile, Audi's Virtual Cockpit was awesome and highly lauded (I haven't tried a newer one, so not sure what's different).
Audi's gone off the deep end with screens now too. I have the virtual cockpit and all the high quality physical controls, most of that is behind a bigass screen now.
That's unfortunate. [**This**](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/2025-bmw-3-series-117-66562dd23a1b8.jpg) is the same model I drove (just swap the carbon-look for basic plastic). And you can see, it's this giant single screen that stretches from the driver's gauge cluster area over the central console and HVAC area, into the passenger space above their footwell.
People complaining that Audi went all-digital on the interfaces while ignoring the BMW and Mercedes ones following the same pattern seem to be missing the point or something.
Audi in 2026 doesn’t seem to know what they want/who they are. I was shopping for a wagon last year, tried the A6 e-tron, ID7 and i5. The A6 and ID7 were so incredibly close, even to the point of styling. If you squint when looking at the ID7, you might mistake it for the A6 and vice versa. Why would anyone pay premium for a Volkswagen? Audi is so fat behind BMW and Mercedes these days.
The difference didn't used to be this extreme. Both BMW and Mercedes are outselling Audi 3 to 1 now. Audi's US sales have catered compared to 5 years ago.
Q1 2026: BMW 84k, Mercedes 78k, Audi 24k
Q1 2021: Mercedes 78k, BMW 71k, Audi 55k
Audi decided to release an entire line of cars with awful interiors in 2025/26. Combine that with uninspired exterior design and drivetrains that are not competitive and there’s not really a good reason to buy one over a BMW
What do you mean not competitive? For everyday cars the 2.0 and 3.0 are extremely competent, if you're talking about reliability then I'll agree on the 3.0 but frankly I don't think many people are aware how disastrous the 3.0 is and on paper Audi has solid drivetrains in the A and Q models, especially with hybrid tech + DCT.
This is correct. I had to get bodywork done on my I4 M50 where someone rear-ended me and scratched the bumper, and I got an A5 for a rental. I did not care for the interior at all, and was very happy when I was back in my car.
Audi is overcomplicated and unreliable. BMW has those disgusting grilles, but the rest of the BMW package is just so good it wipes the floor with everything else in the price range.
I mean, it’s not surprising to me. The market is changing and BMW has approached it better.
Between the 2, Audi leans into the grown-up luxury approach far more. This segment is already super busy and it seems like more come in nonstop.
BMW seems to have realized what keeps them alive. There are a ton of m-light and m models still which are a step sportier than the rest of their segment. They produce them well and they are the brand focus. They’ve leaned more into the M brand as times have changed. Audi need to sharpen up the S/RS lines, up productions, and fight to keep the exciting part of their brand alive in my opinion.
It was an absolute gremlin and was nuts to fix, but when the natty 4.2 was running, it was special. It certainly is more entertaining than the v6 that replaced it.
They’re just failing the least out of the German cars. All three brands have gone to shit in different ways. Hate the steering wheel and some other interior things in my new RS3. Mercedes killed their AMG line and their interiors are tacky as hell.
BMWs are ugly as fuck and the infotainment screen looks like it came from a monitor scrap box. I truly don’t understand anyone liking this new trend of exteriors that look like they were modeled after PS1 polygon Lara Croft tits.
They’ve captured the broccoli haired boys on 84 month used car loans though and maybe still have some good will from when the X5 was actually a really nice vehicle. B58/S58 sound awful but seem to be reliable so far and that’s certainly helping them.
>They’re just failing the least out of the German cars. All three brands have gone to shit in different ways.
Interesting way to put it when BMW is on track for its [4th consecutive year of record sales in NA](https://www.autoblog.com/news/bmw-had-a-great-2025-by-breaking-yet-another-us-sales-record)
BMW actually was down in Q1 2026 compared to 26 but theyre on 3 consecutive record years in North America and the IX3 seems to have huge pre order demand.
No matter how much people complain on reddit or other forums, the NA market is simply buying up bmws left and right
Assuming BMW has a mostly trouble iX3 launch, it's going to eat up a huge amount of the luxury EV market here in the USA. No Chinese competitors here, and others have given up like Tesla or mailed it in like Lexus with their paltry <300 mile range and slow charging.
I’d imagine a lot of that is stolen from Audi for those who want a German vehicle but were turned off by the others. Not a fan of their redesigns lately but if I had those as my choices BMW is the clear winner
Doesn't surprise me. Audi's advantage over BMW and Mercedes was that they built handsome cars with very solid feeling interiors. They killed their advantage by making their cars look bloated, with cheap feeling plasticky interiors littered with screens.
I mean, before, Audi seemed like the car you buy if you cant afford the BMW or Merc. Are they really in competition? That questions not a statement btw, lol.
Yeah, I know people are gonna try to make it seem like they were always lumped together, but ever since I can remember, Audi has always been the lesser German brand of the three. BMW was new money, and MBZ was old money or what you drove if you wanted to pretend you were boujee.
In that case, what does Audi provide that the other two don't? From my limited understanding, Audi is behind the others in terms of offerings and performance. I know people praise Audis interior quality but I've seen many posts about it being lesser in the recent models. Not to say Merc is any better as I see people complain about their electrification shittifying their interior.
You're just pointing out why they are struggling sales wise. My point was that your claim that Audi was the poor man's BMW historically isn't reality.
The problem they have is they didn't evolve the way bmw did. They used to have a leg up with the Quattro models offering an excellent awd system in luxury sedans, but that has become increasingly common.
I'm not here to argue, so I'll take your word! I drove a 2013' Civic Si Coupe. Haha. Obviously I'm a target demo to move up at some point so I'm just providing the context that I've had the past few years. I'd be glad to be in any of the German flagships lol
Nowadays, not much. I remember maybe 5-10 years ago, automotive journalists used to say Audis had the best interiors of the three. Their Quattro AWD system has always been a plus, and they've made some good engines over the years like the EA888.3 (and 4) and DAZA 5 cylinder.
Nowhere. Just general sentiment. I have a 13' civic si so I'm definitely not informed enough. I only speak from the sentiment I gather online which is obviously flawed. In the near future I want to upgrade sometime in the near future and it's largely dependant on the tried and true architecture
Good question. Theoretically (pricing-wise) and in recent history according to the released models, yes. The issue is that they are almost always behind bmw/mercedes.
As the owner of 2 Audis and longtime fan, this doesn’t surprise me. I think they’ve lost their way with the new lineup. Next car for either of us most likely won’t be another Audi. Not a big fan of BMW’s styling (interior or exterior) these days either, but there’s no denying they’re building good cars.
Audi doesn't make anything worth buying, that's why they aren't selling. They're shitty quality, not cool, unreliable as hell, and often times more expensive than a BMW for a worse vehicle.
i've owned both and while i like audi, i've picked bmw over audi many times simply due to their horrendously bad infotainment systems. and when you consider pre-touchscreen i-drive, there was no contest
it's so bad that i was going to make a video showing how bad it is by walking through all of the logical places you'd check to find the tire pressure menu, then showing how you actually get to it and reset it. while doing this, i couldn't find it despite having done it many times when i tracked the car. it's that bad. i sat there laughing at how stupidly bad their UI design team is. good god audi did you get sony to help with this or something?
Audi is going downhill but everyone here is completely ignoring tariffs and that most Audis are built in Europe, and most U.S. sold BMWs are built in the U.S.
Audi used to mean something. When I was younger and I saw someone with an Audi. I thought that person had their shit together. probably a business executive they’ve thrown their reputation down the drain.
Audi shot themselves in the foot, only two good looking cars they currently have are the RS6 and the RS3, and even the RS3 gets some hate.
And all the spy videos taken of the next get RS6 are hinting at replacing the V8 for 6Cyl.
Because Mercedes sales haven't really changed much since last year.
They were steady at around 75-80k US sales this quarter while BMW went up significantly and Audi absolutely cratered.
New audi's are some of the most unremarkable Chinese copycat cars I have ever had the displeasure of seeing. Bmw on the other hand even with some controversial design choices still has that German premium feeling imo. Not surprised at all by these numbers.
Audi hasn’t updated the design language in a decade, I don’t even think it’s reliability, and the interiors aren’t better either. Look at the new A6s mirror and window control panel for an example.
Audi is in a weird spot where they appear as higher end VWs, almost like an AMG for VW products, and yet have the reliability headache concerns of BMW, Mercedes, and even Volvo. I live in. VHCOL community and it’s interesting to see how xc90 is a 3:1 presence to the q7 and q5 combined.
This is and will always be a matter of semantics.
BMW owners consider “regular maintenance” to include things that the average car owner considers to be a repair. The TOC on a BMW - even a paid off one - is so much higher for this reason. It’s not to say it’s not worth it - bmw makes excellent driving vehicles - but to say it’s “reliable” is using that term in a way that most people wouldn’t agree on.
Decided to add a little more information in the title vs the original title just to give the full story without having to click into the article.
But BMW is almost outselling Audi 3:1 in Q1 2026.
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