When did cadillac stop becoming THE car to own in america?
Posted by boiyo12@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 339 comments
I bought an older 1992 cadillac fleetwood and alot of older gentlemen who come and see it tell me how when they were younger in the 70s and 80s cadillacs were THE car to own. Like if you had one it was a huge flaunt of wealth and stuff. Whereas today I find cadillac is kinda just... there. Like yea escalades and stuff are seen as expensive but definitely not a "you made it" kinda car such as maybachs or something.
So when exactly did cadillac's fall start? Also WHY were they seen as so luxurious when apparently they werent all that expensive back then to when compared to cars like, again, the maybach and stuff?
BlueMonday2082@reddit
Like…1960? Maybe 1955? It was a crap brand when I was a kid but really transformed around 2000 into a more performance oriented brand that I also don’t care for.
stoneskipper18@reddit
My cts-v was real nice. Wife wants me to get another. 🤷♂️
ShiftieGears@reddit
When they got rid of the sofa seats.
racerjim66@reddit
When they introduce the Cavalier -based Cimmaron...
phoenix823@reddit
Yep. This started it, Lexus LS400 finished it.
PowerfulFunny5@reddit
Yeah, that was the comfortable quiet reliable RWD V8 ownership experience the Cadillac market wanted, (ie the dream was being a car you buy before retirement that will last the rest of your life) but instead, Cadillac changed to all FWD Northstar cars that were no longer reliable.
MAC_Zehn@reddit
My dad was an old school Cadillac fan; for some reason he thought FWD was the shit. It does have its advantages I suppose
DFLDrew@reddit
For a luxury car, drivetrain layout doesn’t matter. The cars are meant to be driven softly
TheMightyKunkel@reddit
For any premium car, shoveling in an economy drivetrain has typically not been received that well.
Caddy going FWD, and the Northstar being a bit crap, gave a huge opening to Lexus, imo.
Kyle_2099@reddit
...No. Caddy went FWD with the Eldorado in the late 60s. There was nothing "economy" about 500 cubic inches.
Monthra77@reddit
If he’s from the snow belt. FWD is pretty much the only way to go.
Anon-Knee-Moose@reddit
Yeah RWD is awful if you live somewhere with weather.
ZaphodG@reddit
Upvoted. The 400LS came out in 1989. Mercedes E Class was 1993. Cadillac was strictly for blue hairs. Other than the Corvette, General Motors made undesirable low end cars that were famously unreliable and Buick, Oldsmobile, and Cadillac that were old people cars. The Pontiac STE was the only car that got interest from anyone who wasn’t elderly.
Keagan12321@reddit
Isn't the average age of corvette owners like 65+ today?
Important-Rub4749@reddit
They all also wear cargo shorts with a pair of white New Balance tennis shoes and a corvette hat.
zx2ner88@reddit
You forgot the Tommy Bahama shirt
J_Fred_C@reddit
But new balances are cool now
Ok-Stranger-926@reddit
oh hah, that is so my neighbor.
ligmasweatyballs74@reddit
Your neighbor is either a giant Karen or the most chill guy around. No in between.
paypermon@reddit
Jean shorts are also acceptable
Mr_MacGrubber@reddit
Or those visors that have fake spiky hair like guy fieri
rottenbox@reddit
Yep. Retirement present for themselves.
Bright side is that you can get them with low mileage and well maintained in 10 years and they are a performance bargin. Plus they are GM so generally pretty affordable to maintain.
Tommy2Far@reddit
This!! Stepfather purchased used 2001 Z06 w/10k miles and sold it 15 years later w/19k miles for exactly what he paid for it in 2003. He loved that Z06.
Freak-Wency@reddit
Oh man. Having a Corvette for 15 years and only putting 9k miles on it. No way!
wizzardofboz@reddit
I think it was topgear that referred to the Corvette as "the car of the successful plumber".
Imaginary--Situation@reddit
mid life crisis
Background-Job-3629@reddit
My mid-life crisis mobile is a ruby red F-250 Powerstroke
MathematicianIcy3430@reddit
Mine was a Honda Accord 2.0T.
That_Trapper_guy@reddit
Has been for quite a while. My father bought a brand new one fully optioned in 1975 at the ripe old age of 23. He was a produce manager at a local grocery store and my mother was an LPN at the hospital. They had a nice home in a good neighborhood, and two other daily cars. They accumulate several boxes of 8mm film of them driving it all over the country and up through Canada. They put almost 80k miles on that car before I was born in '81. Good luck pulling that off now. You'd have to be born into generational wealth.
Keagan12321@reddit
My last job was a produce manager at a grocery store and I struggled with car payments for a cheep car. The sopping 33k a year was not corvette money 😭
That_Trapper_guy@reddit
This country has been fucking the working man for decades and the bottom half is cheering for the boot.
Sebring73@reddit
Corvettes. Only successful people eldely can afford these high end toys. Younger successful people have kids or too much work to enjoy these toys.
marrymemercedes@reddit
Just to be pedantic. The naming convention of the “E” class changed in 1993 but the chassis was still the same one introduced in 1984. The new chassis E class wasn’t introduced until 1995.
The point stands. The LS400 was the nail in the coffin.
VivienM7@reddit
The Mercedes E class existed before the great renaming of 1993, it was just called something else.
The W124 launched in 1984. I think the previous iterations were seen as weirder, often paired with weird diesels, etc, but I would guess the W124 and W126 S class in the 1980s put Mercedes very seriously on the map in North America.
RogerMiller6@reddit
What is weird about the greatest diesel engines ever manufactured?
VivienM7@reddit
A small, possibly naturally-aspirated, diesel was... an unusual... choice for North America, especially for a luxury vehicle. And performance was... what it was.
I'm not saying there's anything bad about them, just that they would be weird in a world of the 4xx cid V8s that the domestic industry was selling at the time.
And to be clear, I'm talking only from a North American perspective.
FunSignificance3034@reddit
Farmers in Indiana liked them. They could fuel up at home.
jamiethemorris@reddit
I always felt like they’d be the perfect apocalypse car
nortonj3@reddit
Especially since the Oldsmobile diesel debacle. which was currently happening.
Responsible_Bus_7695@reddit
100%
TheWhogg@reddit
Putting something with 70hp and the refinement of a tractor in a 2t luxury car. Longevity was a partial compensation but there’s a BIG difference in refinement between our BMW diesel and petrol cars.
YeahIGotNuthin@reddit
The Mercedes you’re thinking of came out in 1984. For a while in the 1980s, the 300E would beat its contemporary Camaro z28 in a drag race
RhinoGuy13@reddit
My mom had a 300E when I was younger. I remember thinking that it was futuristic because of the single windshield wiper.
FunSignificance3034@reddit
300E is a fast car and a great one in original form. It came out in 1986 in the US w124. The 190E which appears similar came out in 1984. The W123 was the previous "E" class.
LiesInRuins@reddit
Nobody buys American made crap except for trucks and they are losing market share. US automakers have always been the worst in the world.
xxtankmasterx@reddit
That's a bold claim when fiat and Renault both exist
Bagheera383@reddit
Considering that it's nothing more than a rebadged Toyota that unsealed Cadillac, Cadillac has fallen hard
ZaphodG@reddit
You obviously have never driven one of the original 400LS. My stepfather had one. It’s absolutely not a rebadged Toyota.
Bagheera383@reddit
https://www.toyota-global.com/company/history_of_toyota/75years/vehicle_lineage/car/id60010294/index.html
Toyota Celsior. Rebadged for the U.S. because the name "Toyota" wasn't and isn't associated with luxury. Ergo, a rebadged Toyota.
Careless-Ship6126@reddit
Yes and no. It was developed to be a "Lexus" not just taking an existing Toyota model and slapping a new badge on it .. but it's still a Toyota
Bagheera383@reddit
"Lexus did not exist as a brand in its home market until 2005, and all vehicles marketed internationally as Lexus from 1989 to 2005 were released in Japan under the Toyota marque and an equivalent model name."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus
Lexus as a name was developed specifically for the U.S. market, because U.S. consumers wouldn't pay high end money for a high end Toyota
SubGothius@reddit
Yes, and the FX10 LS was developed specifically for the US/international market to be the flagship of their new Lexus brand; if anything, the Celsior was an LS rebadged for the JDM, as it launched in Japan after the LS.
More charitably, Toyota developed the FX10 to be the absolute best sedan they could possibly mass-produce (short of the limited-production hand-built Century), and chose to badge it as the Lexus LS abroad and as the Toyota Celsior in the JDM, so neither one was really a "rebadge" of the other, just different badges for the same car in different markets.
Bagheera383@reddit
Release date doesn't mean it's not a Toyota. You're correct in everything you posted, but last I checked, Toyota manufactured the vehicle, not Lexus.
SubGothius@reddit
You're being obtuse. Everyone knows Toyota manufactures Lexus, which is not an independent manufacturer. That doesn't mean every Lexus is just a "rebadge" of some model that was already being sold as a Toyota. Some are, some aren't, and the FX10 LS/Celsior was not.
GlitteringPen3949@reddit
The Lexus name was an acronym. L = luxury; ex = export; us = To US. It was always a US export name for high end Toyotas.
Bagheera383@reddit
Thanks. I had forgotten about that
I_cheat_a_lot@reddit
Correct. I drove a 2004 celsior here in Japan, the domestic model, before they rolled out Lexus as a brand line here. 4.3 liter V8 with a great transmission. A sports car, not the luxury car that the export and later versions were. It was fantastic, on the highway it could go from 80 to 160km/hr in a heartbeat, passing anything. And screaming down twisty mountain roads with the top down was pure pleasure.
I_cheat_a_lot@reddit
Sorry, Soarer, with the celcior engine
jondes99@reddit
Some of the sporty malaise era GM stuff still holds a place in my heart, but I don’t think Cadillac’s appeal to anyone with an age lower than their body temperature survived the early 80s.
Acceptable_Golf_8623@reddit
He meant lexus, but he aint know it
Ambitious-Status2212@reddit
I came to say this!
3Oh3FunTime@reddit
Catera…
YogurtTheMagnificent@reddit
The Caddy that Zigs!
racerjim66@reddit
Catera was a rebadged, German-built Opel Omega. Perfectly fine car, perfectly fine Opel, but NOT what the world expected from Cadillac
TheMightyKunkel@reddit
Had a Saturn Astra. Opel made a pretty nice little car, but the 5th gear was too short for cruising at 125kph.
MAC_Zehn@reddit
Catera wasn't awful, my mom had one that served well. Ydah, it wasn't whst people expected in a Cadillac at the time. thst was thd whole point. The Catera became the CTS in 2003, and wss a huge success.
rando33maleguy@reddit
The cimmaron was great! Had one I'm 2004.cost 300 dollars worked for 22 hours.
720hp@reddit
I sold Pontiacs back then and the Pontiac Sunbird which was the Cavalier and the Oldsmobile Firenze, and the Buick Skyhawks as well as the Cimmaron was the beginning of the end for Cadillac
WittyFix6553@reddit
Not to get too pedantic, but the Cav and the Cimarron are both GM J-body cars and were designed and released at the same time. It would be just as accurate to say that the cavalier is based on the Cimmaron.
deathlandssurvivor@reddit
Actually, Cadillac was originally supposed to get a small car based on the X body Citation but said nope.
Then the 79 oil crisis happened and Caddy panicked and jumped on the J body so late that all they could do was a mild body refit to make it look like a Caddy.
So I don't think that arguement holds. They were not involved in any engineering of the J bodies.
TheMightyKunkel@reddit
They should have made a Fox-body competitor w RWD.
Trying to shove a Cavalier out the door to compete against BMW's was wild.
racerjim66@reddit
Nope. Small Car Group did the Cavalier, not Cadillac.
owensurfer@reddit
It was still Chevrolet engineering in ‘81. Consolidation of engineering groups did not happen until ‘85.
racerjim66@reddit
Your right, SCG did the refresh, but Chevy did the original, which is what the Cimarron was based on. Still...
CromulentPoint@reddit
That’s all well and good, but the fact that a Caddy shared a platform with an economy shitbox is an indictment regardless of which came first.
vastly101@reddit
My parents had Buicks for years. Awful quality in late 1970s. Cadillav was same GM. I remember the car ib the shop. 1990 I urged thrm to try an LS400. They claimed years later that it could nt drive in snow (RWD), but they never looked back. One GM family never again.
sjclynn@reddit
What is the diffeerance between a Cavalier and a Cimmaron? $10,000
2_minutes_hate@reddit
My first car! Loved that little piece of shit
Battle_Intense@reddit
You could argue the gas crisis was the beginning of Cadillac's downfall, but the Cimmaron was surely the end of that beginning.
Good trip down memory lane:
From the Archive: 1982 Cadillac Cimarron Road Test
UAramprat@reddit
Haha that was amazing. My grandmother had one of these and I remember driving it all the time. It had really nice leather seats… for a Cavalier. 😜
_dekoorc@reddit
This review… I didn’t know I needed to read it and I’m still struggling to form my thoughts. They almost said the it drove nicely?
trogloherb@reddit
Lol, I had one of these in high school! My dad paid 2k for it and when we bought it, an old black dude at the dealer was like “youre buying that?!” and tsked and shook his head and walked off.
Sure enough, thing leaked oil from the get go, think it lasted about a year…but nice leather seats!
One_Evil_Monkey@reddit
I'm a GM guy but the Cimmaron was a HORRIBLE decision.
It's one of those... "OH C'MON, GUYS! REALLY?!" moments in automotive history.
Cassiexxx1234@reddit
Let us not forget the Catera. “The Caddy that zigs” 🙄 It was an Opel Omega.
JohnJohnTurboTron@reddit
Just thinking the same thing.
robkillian@reddit
Was that the “caddy that zigs”?
ProJoe@reddit
Thag was the catera
Wolfsburg78@reddit
No, that was the Catera.
arbakken@reddit
That was the beginning of the end
Kyle_2099@reddit
Cadillacs stopped being "The" car to own in the late 1970s, when they downsized the shit out of them and cheapened them considerably, while still keeping styling that was going out of date.
If you bought a new Cadillac in the 1980s you weren't flaunting your wealth, you were an elderly person driving an embarrassing outdated car worse in every way than a german competitor. It was a marker of being extremely out of touch and lacking in taste.
sumguyontheinternet1@reddit
Northstar engine
Suspicious-Report820@reddit
I owned a Northstar Caddy. That thing was a rocket, and super comfortable. Right up until the motor went full grenade on itself in traffic on the way to a hockey game, at 120k. I’d happily own one again though
VincentAntonelli@reddit
Well this comment makes me nervous, got a 2010 with 97k
bd58563@reddit
By 2010 they had fixed the head gasket issues that plagued most northstar engines.
As with many things GM has made over the years, they finally got it right just before it was discontinued.
bd58563@reddit
In the late 70s they started to put the dogshit Oldsmobile diesels in some of their cars
Then came the horrid 4100 engine
Then most of their models went from RWD to FWD
Then came the Cimarron
At the same time Mercedes was putting out large, high quality, reliable cars, and people were starting to notice. Lexus joined the party a bit later and continued to beat Cadillac at their own game. By the mid 90s Cadillacs really weren’t competitive anymore, and had started to gain a reputation for being unreliable.
By the 2000s the Deville, in terms of MSRP, was a discount full sized sedan compared to many of its competitors. A new Deville was cheaper than a new E class.
The prestige eroded slowly but there were a lot of factors involved, this comment is really just scratching the surface.
Hamblin113@reddit
In the 80’s with the gas crisis, Cadillac put a small either 6 or 4 cylinder in their big sedan and it was gutless. They also had the V8 that would shut down cylinders for better mileage and the first ones had problems. So the fall came in the 80’s can trace it back into the 70’s but many may not have realized it. The big boat style cars went out of fashion, partly due to gas mileage, but also the size for parking, the ride, and at the time poor build quality. More options became available from overseas.
medhat20005@reddit
The beginning of the end to that era of Cadillac was the 73-74 oil embargo, which really put a damper on the luxo-barges of that time, the Fleetwood and for that 'other' American luxury brand, the Lincoln Continental. The ensuing years saw the cars get progressively smaller but with the same nameplates, DeVille and Eldorado (I think I'm missing another one here). I thought the late 80's weren't too bad with the 1st edition Seville, which had legitimately a pretty squared off regal appearance (it did not look just like a fancy Nova). The 80's saw movement IMO towards a negative direction. The Cimarron DID look like a rebadged econocar, while the bustle-back Seville was proof people should design cars when under the influence. It really wasn't until rap and hip hop shined light on the Escalade where mainstream American paid attention again. I could go on with commentary since then but that's far beyond the original question.
Remote_Clue_4272@reddit
You hit the nail in your story. The other cars rose in prominence while Cadillac turned to crap. Benz, BMW, and other became better status symbols, and more stylish and reliable. Simple as that
Sensitive_Tutor5531@reddit
Because of FORD https://vinitel.com/stats/most-popular-cars-by-state
01ds650@reddit
My grandpa owned Cadillacs his entire life. And his dad before him. It was NOT the car to own in the 70s (late 70s) or 80s. They were pure crap by then. I remember driving them in HS. Big floaty turds. His last car was a Camry. He said America just can’t make a good car anymore. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Tangboy50000@reddit
The fall probably started in the 70’s during the fuel crisis, as they continued to produce V8’s. It continued into the 80’s and early 90’s as their designs fell behind the times, and were seen as old people cars. They’ve tried and somewhat succeeded in revamping their image, but the Escalade continues to be their top selling vehicle.
Confident_Chipmonk@reddit
When quality fell off and imports filled the gap, 80s and 90s
Moreofyoulessofme@reddit
As an auto shop owner, 2015+ Escalades, Yukons, Tahoes, etc paid for my lake house. They are truly awful and I don’t blame people for ditching the brand. I’ve had a 1999 Escalade, 2005 Escalade, 2010 Tahoe LTZ, and 2016 Yukon. Each was worse than the one that preceded it. It breaks my heart, but my personal garage is filled with Japanese imports while my shop is filled with modern GMs.
yodruw24@reddit
How about Fords Expedition?
Moreofyoulessofme@reddit
Much better
01Cloud01@reddit
are you serious?!
Moreofyoulessofme@reddit
Absolutely. It’s not even close
01Cloud01@reddit
which generation do you like? when I have read, they don’t tend to hold their value as good as the Chevys do I just hate that the late generation expedition F150 didn’t put cabin filters in their vehicles so dumb and it seems I can’t retrofit one in either
Moreofyoulessofme@reddit
The thing about all ford drivetrains is you have to be religious about oil changes. Stupid spark plug design aside, the 5.4 3 valve was a solid platform. The only years I’d be wary of at 2018-2019. Other than that the 3.5TT is a solid engine. Transmissions were very ok until 2022 when they fixed their issues. A 2023+ expedition should be pretty bulletproof proof
Appropriate_Tour_274@reddit
I had a Fiat 500 for ten years. I think you owe me a weekend at the lake.
Chipsandadrink115@reddit
Yeah this was my thought. Except earlier, I'd say around 1970-something. Plastic wood, chrome-plated plastic script, filler panels that decomposed on the car...the '75 Eldorado or '73 deVille are good examples of this decline in quality.
Oceanbreeze871@reddit
Back when they just put a different grill and logo on a Chevy and called it a Caddy
No_Durian_3444@reddit
Cadillac are primarily owned by certain loyal demographics.
Research from 2019 indicated that African American millennials were 57% more likely to drive a Cadillac compared to other demographics.
Old people love them too.
JumpEnvironmental741@reddit
i don't know Cadillac made some real garbage in the 70's and 80's. For me Cadillac was never "The" car to own, i would rather something German or Japanese if i want a luxury car.
rottenbox@reddit
As a late Gen X person there really hasn't been one I've been interested in besides the initial CTS. Were I in the market for a luxury car it'd probably be Japanese.
Heck, right now I think I'd buy a Lincoln before a Cadillac not that I really desire either. I just think they look better.
TinyMachine6735@reddit
Early GenX here. One year, in the early 80s, we didn't have bussing to our schools. I rode to school every morning in a mid-70s Coupe DeVille or a Sedan DeVille. They didn't belong to my family, but were owned by the couple that my parents were friends with. 5 kids fit pretty comfortably.
J_Fred_C@reddit
We rented an Escalade for a friends trip maybe 5 years ago. It was a one year old car and had electrical failures to the point it became undrivable during our trip.
We got a navigator as a replacement. Idk if they were the same trim levels but the navigator was so much nicer.
wizzardofboz@reddit
The XLR was cool. Prior to that you have to go back to when they had fins.
UnderwhelmingAF@reddit
Only thing that sucks about Lincoln is they’re SUV only now, at least Cadillac still offers a couple sedans.
bearhos@reddit
Back in those days the luxury Japanese cars were grandpa cars. Not knocking the quality but the perception was pretty negative for ‘cool factor’. Beige gold and white colors especially
Oceanbreeze871@reddit
That first big Lexus full size sedan was a boat that I can only picture in that champagne color.
FLOHTX@reddit
In the 90s, there were tons of rappers talking about Lexus from what I remember. The IS with the Altezza lights was so cool
cookie-ninja@reddit
Still grandpa cars outside of nsx and lfa halo models which are kind of unobtainium.
Southern-Usual4211@reddit
The GS Lexus in the 90s had a slightly younger owner base same with the IS
cookie-ninja@reddit
I know lots of young people who drive Lexuses, but their vibes are Grandpa luxury. They got it for luxury Camry vibes
Dangerous-City6856@reddit
I dunno dude… CTS-V wagon was pretty interesting to me. Would love to own an unmolested one
JumpEnvironmental741@reddit
I am either a very young gen X or a really old Millennial, being born in 1980. I did like the initial CTS but it was a bit too angular for me. at the time for similar money one could have had a E39 M5.
I was a mechanic my junior and senior year in high school, and i remember how much i hated working on Cadillac's. Just something about them was always more difficult that it needed to be.
I actually have not owned anything made by General Motors since i worked there. I worked on plenty of Fords and other makes. Mostly Nissans, Hondas, Fords, with a couple VW's over the years.
i kind of with GM would have killed Cadillac and kept Pontiac. I would trade Cadillac and Buick for Pontiac. Buick is even worse than Cadillac in my opinion. they haven't made anything worth more than a passing glance since the Grand National.
ParanoidSpam@reddit
The northstar water pumps...
Negate79@reddit
All I ever wanted was a black grand national
porcelainvacation@reddit
I am 50, I would buy a manual transmission Blackwing
Bird2525@reddit
Hush your mouth. The Seville was amazing.
Chipsandadrink115@reddit
76 Seville was a revelation, absolutely.
makgross@reddit
In 1980, Hondas were considered absolute shit boxes. You bought a Civic for your 16 year old kid when you wanted to discourage showing off. Toyotas were around, but were econoboxes. Same with Nissan (then Datsun), except for a couple of sport lines. My family had a deep purple 710 hatchback. Oh god that was a shockingly ugly POS.
German also meant a Bug at the time. Disposable crap. They were also death traps, so they weren’t seen much. The real big Mercedes push came in the 80s.
mikevsworld@reddit
This changed?
dontworryitsme4real@reddit
Dr I know had his Mercedes in the shop and was given a Lincoln as a loaner. He said it was the most comfortable ride he's ever been in. Like flying a cloud. He would buy one if it didn't affect his image with the neighbors.
No-Suggestion-9459@reddit
Imagine being so insecure that you care what your neighbors think about the car you drive lol.
sammymvpknight@reddit
The Lincoln Town Car was absolutely insane
OregonMothafaquer@reddit
Driving a 93 Lincoln town car right now. Like it a lot
mondaymoderate@reddit
Living your life because of what other people think is crazy
DJFisticuffs@reddit
The current CT5 - V Blackwing is the greatest car America has ever produced and the perfect swan song for the age of the internal combustion engine.
YeahIGotNuthin@reddit
The entire usdm was garbage in the 1970s and into the 1980s. To drive a 1979 Mustang and then, say , a 1979 Prelude, you could see which way things were going.
Smitty-TBR2430@reddit
“Luxury” and “Japanese” don’t belong in the same sentence.
Lexus, Genesis, et al are built like Pontiacs, priced like Cadillac CTS-V, and drive like … Toyotas.
Back in the day, I had a ‘88 Lincoln Continental. That car was as comfortable as my living room and as smooth as pussy. I’ve not driven anything before or since that was THAT good but I had a 2014 Mercedes E class that was close.
ScaryfatkidGT@reddit
In the 80’s they started being the old peoples car…
Now they make actual sports cars better than BMW and Mercedes and people still don’t buy them…
jonb72@reddit
Gas crisis, late 70s.
TheGaujo@reddit
That's not true. Escalade is definitely a status car now.
burnerburna91@reddit
Idk man, people love my CTS-V
ClearFrame6334@reddit
Lexus
SnooGadgets9669@reddit
When was it ever the car to own? They’re also fucking ugly.
Small-Cherry2468@reddit
By the mid '70s the gas crisis made Cadillacs not so powerful, which was its signature thing, being able to eat up the interstate and leave everyone in the dust. The quality control dropped signifigantly. Then the front wheel drive, smaller chassis cars came about in the late 70s. Even the Fleetwood shared a chassis and drivetrain with a Caprice by the early 80s.
Cadillac became a rebadged GM car with some exceptions.
Cadillac had a program back in the late 80s and early 90s that offered special financing with lower payments, making them affordable for the middle class. My mom bought a CPO Eldorado as an admin assistant. So the exclusivity was sort of gone.
By 1997 there were no big, rear wheel drive V8 Cadillacs. On top of that their target market was aging. People were buying Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus, Acura, etc.
Cadillac is really a dinosaur, a relic of its past, just like Buick.
CostCompetitive3597@reddit
Several design and model mistakes. They downsized and went front wheel drive in the 2nd half of the 80s. Lost customers to Lincoln. Then started using the terrible Northstar engine in the 90s and stuck with them for 20 years. Drove more customers to Lincolns and European cars. Then downsized again in the 2010s when their customers were aging and needed bigger cars to be comfortable.
Stupid, stupid, stupid as they say. Lost a tremendous amount of market share.
shortyman920@reddit
We just have so many more options now. The foreign carmakers from Japan, Germany, and Korea have rolled out lots of compelling cars last 3 decades, and their luxury variants are also extremely good. Cadillac is still a respected luxury brand, but it has competition
Virtual_Win4076@reddit
I feel like loaded pick up trucks have taken that title.
Commercial_Song_7595@reddit
Northstar
Sebring73@reddit
Callingb65 Midlife crisis today is more like end life crisis
Sebring73@reddit
When leasing became popular.
Confident_Peak_6592@reddit
Cadillac was always a status car. It means you are someone.. You had a little juice.I remember back in the day a small dude would show up in a big caddy. It instantly gave you credibility..
Gunk_Olgidar@reddit
When GM ensh!tified the brand in the 80s with the Cimmaron.
The base trim came stock with a manual transmission, hand crank windows, and an AM radio.
Suspicious-Report820@reddit
HT4100. Fuck.
Hoody007@reddit
The 70s. Once Mercedes and BMW came on the scene with mid and large sized sedans, it was game over. Reliability, refinement, and build quality that was not indifference and coke cans in the door panels spelled disaster for US manufacturers coasting on their reputation from the 50s and mid 60s.
aringa@reddit
I didn't realize they were ever all that and I'm pretty old.
Luciferkrist@reddit
When they started chasing lower markets and compact-size cars. When they started dropping turbo motors and phased out V8s. Pick your era.
But to pin it down to ONE moment - it would be when they put out the Catera.
Now they just keep chasing the Eurotrends of making performance luxury and not pure luxury WITH performance options.
Lexus, MB, and here in MI, Genesis are filling their luxury niche in the US, and BMW took their performance market.
Sad, since Caddy are the ONLY sedans GM still has.
VivienM7@reddit
Cadillac's fall started in the early 1970s. The prices went way down, volume went up, etc.
It's also worth noting there was a certain stagnation in styling. Cadillac styling in the 1950s/1960s was daring. Meanwhile, a 1999 FWD DeVille has the same styling cues as an early 1970s Cadillac. So that had the effect of making Cadillac into an older person brand. People who liked Cadillacs in the 1970s kept buying them, everybody else associated that styling with aging people, etc. Until, really, the art & science styling of the early 2000s, they had done very little to try and build a 'modern' styling identity. Their strategy seemed to be to lower prices (in inflation-adjusted terms) and appeal to retirees who had always lusted after Cadillacs while abandoning younger, wealthier buyers who wanted more contemporary styling.
The other thing that happened is demographic change. People who had fought in the war, might have had loved ones killed by the Germans or Japanese, were not particularly interested in buying German/Japanese cars. In the 1970s, you start to have boomers buying cars, and unlike their parents/grandparents, they have no nationalistic attachments. As they got older/richer/etc, they generally wanted foreign luxury cars.
booyah_broski@reddit
Prices did go down relative to inflation, but not by that much. I'm relying on Google AI here, so grain of salt, but MSPR for a De Ville in 1965 was about $5500. Adjusted to 1975 prices, that's about $9200. Actual MSRP (again, according to Google) was about $8700.
The bigger issue was, as you mention, chasing volume. Per ateupwithmotor.com:
And:
From the '20s into the '60s, Cadillac had done a good job of balancing:
That started to go out the window in the '60s. Look up pics of a '66 De Ville's interior vs a that of a '67, and it fully ramped up in the '70s.
The Cimarron always gets cited, but Cadillac was a decade-plus into declining prestige by the time the Cimarron came around.
TLDR: VivenM7 is right; Cadillac's issues predated the Cimarron.
VivienM7@reddit
What I'd like to understand in terms of pricing is this - apparently in the 1950s, a Cadillac (maybe not a de Ville) was roughishly Rolls Royce pricing. That's what I read, anyways. By the late 1990s (when I was alive to see this), a fully loaded Seville was around $60-65K CAD, half the price of an average MB S class, and probably... a quarter the price of a Rolls Royce.
That's a big, big drop in relative pricing. Maybe most of the decline happened after 1975.
But what you found is exactly right and just became worse - certainly by the 1990s, a fairly average retired dude could squeeze himself into a Cadillac, and GM seemed happy enough with that market. Same thing at Lincoln I might add. They just abandoned the Don Draper types in favour of retirees over the course of a couple decades.
That being said, I think the Cimarron was... a contributor to this too. The idea that they needed a small car to compete with the BMW 3 series and upcoming MB 190E was not misguided in itself, but the product they came up with was absolutely ill-suited for the job.
booyah_broski@reddit
No, generally speaking, Cadillacs did not have Rolls-Royce-level pricing. They've had a model here or there that were very expensive. E.g., (grain of salt, as I'm lazily using Google AI again) the 1957 Eldorado Brougham was hand built and cost $13,000+. That'd be more than $150,000 in 2026 money. But their bread-and-butter 1957 sedans would have been priced from the high $4000s to mid $5000s, more akin to prices in the $50,000s and $60,000s today.
The rule of thumb--and I'm quoting my father and grandfather here--was that a (regular) Cadillac broadly cost as much as an extensive kitchen renovation. A nice, large kitchen in a nice, large home to be sure, but they did not cost as much as a house, as many Rolls-Royces have over the years have.
Dependent_General897@reddit
My father was the guy that bought Cadillac in the late 70’s. He bought them for my mom, every year. Because the transmissions would fail after 10,000 miles!
DELAZ1@reddit
Funny, now I see Cadillac as a 30 or 40 something entry-luxury brand and Lexus as the old person car.
VivienM7@reddit
That makes perfect sense, though. The people with the pre-1970s understanding of Cadillac, the war grumpiness, etc are either in their 80s or dead. The boomers are very much associated with Lexus... and, well, the boomers are now at least as old as the Cadillac owners in the 1990s were.
Meanwhile, 30somethings don't associate Cadillac with the stagnating 1970s styling that stuck around for 30 years and the cars their parents drove (that would be Lexus or MB), they associate it with Escalades and art & science and rap stars and whatnot.
AndreLeGeant88@reddit
And the Blackwing
makgross@reddit
I’d argue that the 8-6-4 engine and the earlier weird double TBIs didn’t help.
VivienM7@reddit
And the general CAFE regime. The European automakers were happy to pay their fines for having below requirement average fuel economy, while GM was not.
Also, it was GM policy for a while not to make any vehicles with a gas guzzler tax. I think they only abandoned that policy around the time of the first CTS-V.
So... these factors meant that Cadillac (which had prided itself on its giant-displacement torque monster V8s into the mid-1970s) was more desperate to reduce fuel consumption particularly in the 1980s, leading to all kinds of questionable decisions and vehicles that significantly underperformed foreign rivals (the 4.1L engine in the RWD cars that replaced the 8-6-4 had absolutely anemic acceleration...). 8-6-4, the Oldsmobile diesel, the 4.1, etc. Either really poor performers, really unreliable, or even worse, often both.
throwmethefrisbee@reddit
That’s why for a number of years the Corvette manual had a lockout. If you weren’t stomping in the gas, it forced you to shift from 1st to 4th gear. It had the torque to do it if you weren’t in a hurry, but it was annoying. It was all about improving the epa numbers.
Imyourhuckl3berry@reddit
I think your points about styling and the post war nationalism are on point though I’d add American cars were just seen as better, more exciting due to our car centric areas and car culture that came with it
I knew plenty of older folks who talked like in the 50s and 60s Cadillacs were the best car you could own and how people in some neighborhoods would pool money to buy one they shared for nights on the town
VivienM7@reddit
And there wasn't much competition - the Japanese didn't make luxury cars until the early 1990s. I don't think the Germans seriously made inroads in North America before the 1970s, if not quite a bit later.
I once read that Cadillacs in the 1950s were priced close to Rolls Royces. And... that (and Lincoln) would have been the main competition anyways. Not really anybody else.
Imyourhuckl3berry@reddit
It’s wild to me to see the stories of Aston Martin back then and while expensive they seemed much less so than now, if only I had a Time Machine to go back and grab a few DB5s
jwoold@reddit
Hah, maybe ask the opposite question. Is there any Cadillac you felt you had to have? As a kid of the '60s, my car crushes never included a Caddy. Before my hair was gray they were all driven by gray-hairs. Now I'm in the gray camp I have no interest.
MarsupialNo1278@reddit
american car companies simply aren't that good. European made better luxury vechiles
Background-Job-3629@reddit
Probably early 90s. I grew up in Caddies and they were the status symbol of the day. Was always proud to arrive in one.
ViolinistHoliday5244@reddit
Everything American is shit except the z06
Tess47@reddit
A lot
nortonj3@reddit
Planned obsolescence. that killed gm in the late 70s and 80s.
SlyClydesdale@reddit
Cadillac didn’t really become THE car until the 1948 redesign, as Packard was still strong enough and prestigious enough to edge out Cadillac until then.
By the early/mid 1970s, especially with the 1971 redesign, the quality of materials and body engineering began to drop off noticeably. Just as Mercedes-Benz was beginning to hit their stride and Lincoln was starting to pull buyers away with the Continental and Mark IV.
The Energy Crisis in 1973-74 really turned the excessive size of Cadillacs to that point into something more passé, however.
The 1976-79 Seville pointed the way forward for the marque, and briefly arrested Mercedes-Benz’s sales increases. But GM learned almost no lessons from the success of that car, as they continued to downsize and cheapen their main models and sell them for less than what they charged for the Seville.
By the time the 1980 Seville launched, Cadillac chucked the progressive “sheer look” of the 1976-79 model for a retro pastiche bustleback look that most luxury car buyers, who were looking for something on the cutting edge of design and technology, did not want.
The 1980-85 Seville’s sales absolutely tanked. Then the V8-6-4 failed. The Olds diesels became problematic. Then the HT4100 and 700R4 transmission earned a horrible reputation.
Cadillac’s new “High Tech” 4.1L V8 with “Digital Fuel Injection” made about the same amount of power (and less torque) as Buick’s old cast iron and carbureted 4.1L V6, which was the delete option. The engine lineup in 1981-87 was nothing short of an unmitigated disaster.
The 1982 Cimarron was just icing on the cake.
With the launch of the BMW 7-Series and increasing popularity of the Jaguar XJ6, the redesigned S-Class and early rise of Audi, Cadillac looked totally backward and incompetent. Because by then, they were.
The Energy Crises of the 1970s forced GM into an identity crisis with Cadillac. Cadillac’s identity had long been “bigger, bolder, plusher.” And GM didn’t know how to build luxury cars for this newer era when technology had to step in for cubic inches and padding.
So it wasn’t one specific year that knocked Cadillac off their perch, but a slow and steady decline beginning in about 1971, which was made fully complete by 1982.
booyah_broski@reddit
It took two decades or so for the complacency to kick in, but I think the demise of Packard and, before it, Peerless & Pierce-Arrow, ultimately hurt Cadillac. The Three P's were focused on quality and prestige, and Cadillac had to compete on that front. Size and glitz weren't enough.
Odd-Candidate-9235@reddit
They definitely were the Cadillac of automobiles.
Living_Natural1829@reddit
Cadillac is just a nicer trim level for GM cars now.
Sea-Claim-6860@reddit
An escalade is THE car to own in america
Lotsofkidsathome@reddit
In the 70’s my snooty neighbours had Cadillacs, they looked down on my grandfather for owning Mercedes and jaguar…
No-Assistance476@reddit
When Escalades became gangster cars
MinivanPops@reddit
Cadillac was doin just fine, thank you, for a long time.
I'd say this lasted up until the CT5 and post-Art-and-Science design. They had real mojo, top-tier cred, with the V performance cars. I'd argue they very successfully transitioned to a performance car brand.
However... the crossover juggernaut just kept rolling, and performance sedans were a dead end. The Escalade is still an extremely nice giant SUV, but they've got strong opposition in the other CUV segments. I always wondered what the conversations have looked like internally the last 10 years.
Negate79@reddit
The caddy EVs are pretty nice
boiyo12@reddit (OP)
Might be a hot take but if say the evs are actually a comeback for their luxury style again. I saw some of their evs at an auto show and sitting in them was the best cars I sat in the whole show.
Negate79@reddit
EV fixes the core problems with gm vehicles, transmissions and engines 😂
AndreLeGeant88@reddit
Our 2000 Impala made it to 300k miles with just oil changes
Negate79@reddit
Legendary V6 3800 Panther engine
DJFisticuffs@reddit
The CT5-V Blackwing is the greatest car America has ever made. Can't get much more back than that.
ggouge@reddit
They stopping being competitive because they knew enough people would buy them even if they are not the best. Plus they never were the best. Just American luxury once other foreign companies started selling in North America they could not and chose not to compete.
CliffGif@reddit
When European luxury cars became popular among the wealthy in the early 80s.
bigkutta@reddit
When the Japanese and Germans arrived
brabson1@reddit
Right around the Northstar v8
Gummyrabbit@reddit
They lost to the competition who came out with better handling and more reliable cars.
chees3lover89@reddit
When they decided a FWD Northstar V8 was a great idea
Miserable-Lie-8886@reddit
Don’t overlook the Escalade. It was the hot car (SUV) to own in the early 00s.
MiningEarth@reddit
About 50 years ago.
PinkGreen666@reddit
Bout 1979
fertile_gnome@reddit
People hate on Cadillac, but a Cadillac is the only GM product I'd consider owning.
Spoiler alert: I would never actually buy a Cadillac.
dualiecc@reddit
When they went fwd
Model_27@reddit
I think Cadillac was replaced with Lexus. Even Mercedes isn’t viewed as all that today.
TheGroundBeef@reddit
Once German luxury cars started taking over in the late 90’s. Then add Lexus and Acura into the mix
FrozenUruguayBallbac@reddit
around the Oil crisis in the 80s they fell off with their car's quality becoming worse and worse and with the rise of European rivals really solidified the fall off Cadillac. Sure maybe in rural america in the 80s and 90s they were "the car" but large trucks replaced them. However I will say they have done a really good job turning themselves around with cars like the CT4, CT5 the always brilliant escalade, their EV offerings and the Celestiq to become a true competitor to Euro brands again. All they have to do is revamp the XT5 and XT6 into true X5 and X7 competitors and they got it.
Manual-shift6@reddit
When Cadillac tried to go down-market with the Cimarron. If they had more thoroughly upgraded that vehicle, it may have helped introduce Cadillac to a younger generation. Instead, it became a joke. People who wanted smaller, more luxurious vehicles turned to European (mostly German) brands, and then Japanese companies came out with upscale brands. GM just screwed up…
LugsNotDrugs@reddit
Hey, don’t knock the Cimmaron. My first car at 16 was a brown with brown leather Cimarron. I thought I was the coolest kid ever with a Caddy.
rpm429@reddit
When Cadillac and Lincoln stopped making luxury vehicles and just rebadging Chevrolet and Ford models.....they are both still faux luxury.
GoldBlueberryy@reddit
When people stopped caring about nationalism.
Gofastrun@reddit
Escalade is still pretty popular amongst the other parents at my kids daycare.
The VT5-V is pretty sick and is available with a manual.
But yeah these days Cadillac is seen as more “the nicer Chevrolet” than as “as good as it gets”.
I think they had a big dip in the 80s/90s, then came back a bit with the Escalade in the 2000s, then lost their position for good when Porsche came out with the Cayenne and Range Rovers moved further upscale.
Calm-Suspect-4660@reddit
anything after 59, long and lean and fins for miles.
Majsharan@reddit
It was coming back in the early 90s after the cimmaron fiasco to promptly shit the bed with the North Star. It wasn’t until a decade later with the Escalade that you starting seeing any interest in Cadillac to have the brand phoenixed by the Escalade + cts and V combination in the late 00s
CaliDude75@reddit
I’d say mid-late ‘80s. That’s when Mercedes and BMW were ascendant, and the Japanese (Acura, Lexus) were starting to come on the scene. My dad had an ‘86 Seville, and that thing was a steaming turd.
OSM_Labs@reddit
When Lexus launched.
dumpitdog@reddit
Acura started the turn away from flash to quality in 1985. Lexus followed later and by the late 80s Cads, Lincolns, and Chryslers became the cars of grandparents.
ImplementNew6286@reddit
It was usually successful people that bought them ,,,and usually older too so trying to make them sporty they lost their buying crowd
ImplementNew6286@reddit
I think when they shrunk and tried making them sporty like a BMW,,,I had sedan devilles ,,dts ,,loved those cars my favorites looked classy like a Cadillac should
ConsequenceNational4@reddit
When everyone driving them in commercials were also the same ones wearing depends. It didnt speak to young or younger people.
Solcat91342@reddit
The 70’s when gas prices were high and gas was hard to get.
EnthusiasmTop8815@reddit
They were slow to jump on the SUV train, but of course ever since the Escalade they have been THE car to own in America.
elquirk@reddit
The 80s. American cars were shite in the 80s.
Sad_Brief4622@reddit
Cadillacs became smaller, front wheel drive, and the styling sucked. The government should have just allowed Cadillac to make what they wanted provided they pay a luxury tax. Mandated fuel economy standards has been the death of American cars and car culture.
altcountryman@reddit
Perhaps when their V8's started blowing up (known issue but no recall for the system that shuts off 4 cylinders to save fuel) and their dealer network service (at least in San Jose, CA) went to shite.
pessimistoptimist@reddit
IMHO. They started to drop when the gas crisis hit and putting a massive engine in for power to co.pensate for the weight was no longer viable. The made the 8,6,4 (i cant remeber the exact name) that was designed to shut off chlinddrs when the power wasnt needed to save fuel....innovative but the tech wasnt good enough yet and the system sucked...it started to kill the brand. The.they tried to make then lighter and more economical and they looked it the image was destroyed and better brands took its place. It seems that even now a caddy seem like a trimmed out GM just a step higher than a chrysler 300. I know they are different but for the price I expect something more. Again, IMHO the CTS was a step in the right direction but not enough to rebrand the line.
froction@reddit
Mostly when Lexus arrived on the scene, then fully once Mercedes started making decent sedans again.
Olderpostie@reddit
Through roughly the mid 60's, Cadillac was the pinnacle of automotive pride in the States. It outsold all competitors in the high end of the market by a big amount.
Then, things started to degrade for Cadillac, some yts doing,others external factors:
GM allowed other divisions to expand luxury offerings. By 1971, even Chevy had its luxury model, the Captive, with power, upholstery and quietness rivalling Cadillac. It even copied the Cadillac egg crate grille.
Later in the mid 70s, Mercedes Benz expanded its dealer network in the States and Canada, offering a vehicle perceived as superior in terms of engineering and manufacturing excellence. It picked up a good chunk from Cadillac. The Lincoln brand also took market share. GM also expanded Cadillac assembly to several plants using mix model production with its other brands. That took some of the Cadillac image away, at least to those in the auto industry.
In the late 70s and beyond, three real faux pas hurt Cadillac hard. The first was the use of the sad sack Oldsmobile 5.7 liter diesel. Underpowered, loud and not reliable. Then, Cadillac came out with the Cimarron, an upgraded ecino car that didn't fool the public, and just didn't fit in the Cadillac brand image. Then, thirdly, the "6-8-4" engine that was still more experiment than proven. It was not reliable. That engine and the Olds diesel, took away the reliability that professionals and executives has long taken for granted with the Cadillac brand. These were people that didn't want to open the hood of their car, just turn the key.
Lastly, mid 80s and onward, Cadillac lost so much market share to high end imports, notably Lexus.
Honeydew-plant@reddit
I don't know exactly when, but cadillac now is nothing like cadillac then. Buick is more like what cadillac was, and even then it's not the same. Right now cadillac is pretending to be sporty and trendy, but they used to be a lot more like lexus and lincoln (I know how much of a crime i just committed putting those two brands together), smooth and bulky.
ImpliedSlashS@reddit
It kinda never was, though I must say my father always dreamed of owning one.
It was always just a Chevy with pillows instead of seats and a bunch of cheaply implemented doodads, though we didn’t know any better until Lexus.
Emergency_Lobster514@reddit
In the 1970s GM cars became very low quality. Then the bean counters cut costs by sharing body styles and other parts among name plates. A Buick looked like a Pontiac looked like an Oldsmobile looked like a Cadillac.
This is referenced hilariously in the movie “Fletch.” The main character describes his ex-wife’s attorney showing up in his Oldsmobuick.
This was not addressed until the early 1990s IMO. Oldsmobile and Pontiac were eventually killed off.
By then it was too little too late.
IMO this is what happens when bean counters (people like me) take over the business instead of engineers.
Boeing went through a very similar process with the 737Max. That airplane is just grotesque cost cutting grafted onto an old design to save a buck.
That 737Max nearly broke the company. Boeing should have started a clean sheet design (completely new airplane) around 2010 or so.
Instead Airbus caught Boeing TOTALLY flat footed with the NEO. Boeing rushed the Max as a weak response.
Wemest@reddit
‘80s. Higher quality European cars gained popularity then Japan introduced luxury brands. Sadly the Americans tried to compete by rebranding lesser models (remember the Cimmaron).
Familymanjoe@reddit
Cadillac had a resurgence in popularity with the Escalade in the late 90s but that wore off after its peak in 2007
sdnative88@reddit
Idk I work in a high end beach town in the South. I’ve never seen so many Cadillac Escalades in my life the last year.
SanfordStreet@reddit
My father bought himself a new. 1953 Cadillac for his 50th birthday. It was, I think, called a series 62. It had wire wheels (actually, hubcaps), was a color called deep chrome green. I remember him driving down our street and our neighbors came out to stare at this “rare” luxury vehicle. When he drove me to summer camp the kids surrounded it. No power windows, no A/C. He kept it for 10 years and I learned to drive on it. I still have photos of it.
EventHorizonHotel@reddit
The Oil Embargo of the early 70s made large gas guzzling cars expensive to drive. This opened the door to Japanese and some European imports, the big-3 did not respond well to that threat, leading to poor designs and a drop in quality, further accelerating the decline.
Frosty-Pay5351@reddit
You could say the late 1970s really because Mercedes and Volvo were making better performing and more well built vehicles. The Cadillac and Lincolns were still more comfortable but I think European cars became more a symbol of success.
MoaiTrist@reddit
As others have stated, Cadillac fell in prominence in the early 70's, and it was obvious to car fans at the time that the accountants at GM had taken over from the engineers. It was a brand that went from cutting edge styling and design to a collection of rebranded cheap Oldsmobiles and Chevrolets. I vividly remember a friend's dad throw an absolute fit when the vinyl roof of his new Cadillac pulled away from its trim, and he found an Oldsmobile badge underneath.
Cheap materials, slab sided poorly fit body panels, plastic hub caps painted to look like wire wheels. A few people who were non-car-people would continue to buy them, but most people moved on to Mercedes who had built up a solid reputation at the time. When the Cadillac Cimarron was introduced, even the non-car-people started to recognize what was happening.
The entire brand was at risk of being closed (like Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and soon to be Buick), until one rebadged vehicle became their greatest modern hit. GM rebadged the Chevrolet Tahoe as the Cadillac Escalade, and it was a huge success.
Along the way, Cadillac tried to extend the success to their passenger car line over the last 20 years by pursuing BMW customers. Gone are the floaty pillow cars Cadillac was known for, replaced by German inspired sports sedans. While they have had some success with the niche performance models, BMW fans were not going to switch. Also, Cadillac alienated what remaining customer base they had left who didn't want a stiff ride, low slung car.
Anyway, I'm old enough and been a car fan long enough to see the same patterns happen to other companies. Mercedes was peak engineering in the 70's and 80's. They would take a new car off the assembly line and put it on a track, run 50 or 100,000 miles straight, and learn what could be improved. Models from that era can be found all over the world in 3rd world countries still running as if they will never die. When Mercedes announced to investors in the 90's that they were going to become a "fashion brand," I knew it was over.
Lexus and Infinity came along in 1989, and instantly took a huge share of the luxury automotive market (mostly Lexus). Of course the LS400 from that era is still known as a million mile car.
BMW in the late 90's made a hard push to make their vehicles more reliable, and it worked, but everything went sideways in the late 2000's and have never returned to greatness.
This is making me sit and think about what "luxury" brand I would own now. Most of the high end brands are now confusing technology for engineering and I simply don't like any of them. The truck I bought for towing is very comfortable for long trips, has plenty of room front and back (what large cars had in the past), no computer menus to dig through just to turn on the headlights, and a full size spare tire so I don't have to call roadside assistance in a place with no cell service. Even my beloved 911 has become insufferable over the last few years.
Anyway, if you made it this far, thanks for hearing out the ramblings of a car guy who now feels old.
thefavoredsole@reddit
Good write up! The German cars definitely took over as the flagship luxury. I think Lexus specifically took what was remaining from the caddillac crowd who wanted softer/quiet luxury. One thing to point out though, I think Cadillac is making quite the comeback with their electric vehicles. Their sales numbers over the last few years have been on a sharp rise. The electric segment could be their strong suit. Particularly the Electric CUV and SUV
MoaiTrist@reddit
Aside from Tesla, I think GM is best positioned to succeed in the EV space. Early GM EV models had battery longevity issues. The Volt I bought for my son is effectively salvage at 110k miles after a battery failure. Bolts had their own issues. I think the new battery platform is designed better. But consumers will need time to see how the new designs hold up over time. I do hope the EVs hold up well and that Cadillac succeeds in the future.
Contralogic@reddit
Look up lexus ls 430.
YeetThatLemon@reddit
I feel like it started when GM started consolidating all the brands under one inventory supply. Plus it didn't help when Cadillac started trying become more accessible and affordable for the average person. I mean it works sometimes like with Porche but Porche still delivers in their really high end Flagship models and even Porsche's budget models still are uniquely Porche.
Cadillac went way to far with the budget friendly cars and wasn't delivering in either market segment and ended making do many stinkers that just weren't what Cadillac was. I think the nail in the coffin was when Lexus came onto the scene, as Cadillac in the 90's was severly behind Mercedes and the lunch of the LS400 even send Mercedes into a panicked frenzy so there was no way Cadillac could keep up.
Finally, Lincoln over took Cadillac as the only remaining bastion of old American style vehicles with the Town Car which was a huge hit. Even today Lincoln is more of what Cadillac used to be than Cadillac even is. I love the the whole Black Wing and V-Sport stuff Cadillac is doing but it simply just isn't Cadillac. Hop in a modern Lincoln and you can still pass it off as it's own brand to the unknowlegable buyer who doesn't know what platform sharing is. A Lincoln is a Lincoln and they do a good job at distinguishing themselves from Ford (Most of the Time) but a Cadillac is still VERY obviously a GM with some leather even in their top cars.
RED-ELPH@reddit
My gma drove only caddies. Until about 1980. She went in to buy a new one, which she did every 2 years.
That was about the same time as car manufacturers overcorrection with the more leg room sales pitch. Which was actually just shortening the seat.
My gma said the seats just were not luxurious anymore.
She went and bought an Olds 98.
Said they had the most comfortable seats that she’d ever sat in.
I’ve always appreciated that.
SumyungNam@reddit
My family had one in the mid 80s we felt rich with it lol...I always wanted one when I was a kid but later on wanted a jaguar or lexus.
Clearwater_9196@reddit
Lexus
gaymersky@reddit
I'm going to go with the exploding North Star engine.. 😡😡😡
FunSignificance3034@reddit
Maybe 1980? But really the big plunge was just after WW2 when they really weren't the cars of the world as they were in the 30s. Like Packard, they went down market and opened up the door to Rolls Royce and Mercedes Benz.
These-Result-1955@reddit
1992 with the introduction of the Northstar engine.
Honestly, probably before ‘92.
No_Cut4338@reddit
Your perceptions are out of whack because of social media, the internet and television.
The Escalade is a 100k vehicle. If you can truly afford one without sacrificing other stuff you’ve definitely “made it”.
Now some folks probably own Escalades that can’t really afford them. Don’t have their home squared away, retirement accounts maxed and kids college fully funded. That’s a different story that will also skew perceptions.
NikkorMatt456@reddit
I think for most of us who are in our 50s Cadillac was never the car brand to own. The gas crisis of the '70s and the pivot away from muscle cars to personal luxury really caught Cadillac out. I think many people just saw a brand very out of step with the times which then tried to keep selling the same cars in smaller sizes. It didn't help that Mercedes was the darling of the jet set in TV shows. I thought the cool car of the late '70s was the JR Ewing 300 sedan.
HenryLoggins@reddit
Personally, I feel they lost their way when GM just started rebranding their cars cross platform. You could literally by 5 or 6 variations of the same car, depending on what brand dealership you went to. Cadillac, Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn, Saab, and Buick all sold the same SUV’s, with little changes. The watering down of the brand(s) took that “special something” away.
Sumocolt768@reddit
They willingly sold a broke ass, gasket failing engine for 10 years on one of their flagship models. By the time the 2000s came around, it reared its ugly head to the point where they were known to be unreliable
Available-Coconut-86@reddit
I’ve never had a car as comfortable or handled as nice as my 1995 Seville. Engine blew at 50k and not repairable. My son took the body and put it on a two ton truck frame. Got used in a Lizard Lick towing episode.
hemibearcuda@reddit
About the time Lexus, Infiniti and Acura came onto the scene.
JosephPapparelli@reddit
I blame leasing. Leasing made it possible for everyone to drive cars they otherwise couldn’t afford.
Master_Try_3821@reddit
I like to think about it as trickle down features too. My E class costs significantly less than my landscapers GMC Sierra Denali Heavy Duty. His truck is probably better equipped too. This E class replaced a fully loaded Chrysler 300C. When I was looking to replace that car, I was considering many different options. It was crazy to see that an F-150 Lariat already more features than the Chrysler. I couldn’t imagine what it would be like to have an F-150 Limited or Platinum. I think the summary of my point is when a Kia Carnival can be equipped with power reclining middle row seats, how special is a luxury vehicle?
Sumocolt768@reddit
Well for starters, they willingly sold a broke ass, gasket failing engine for 10 years on one of their flagship models
MShane26@reddit
Spouse owns a Lyric, and it looks nothing like the Cadillacs of the 1970s and 1980s. Drives great, too. I’ve owned a Lexus and BMW, and I test-drove a CT5-V last year. It was nice but much sportier than I imagined, but I suppose that’s intentional. The brand seems to be appealing to a much younger demographic these days.
Imaginary-Thing-7159@reddit
never was
DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit
About when houses stopped being a thing that regular people could buy.
bigjimnm@reddit
When the Cadillac Cimarron was released. A barely gussied up Chevy Cavalier for twice the money. I think it was 1983.
NipkowLines@reddit
The answer really applies to a lot of America’s manufacturing industry. Cadillac’s “fall” started after WW2 when American engineering and manufacturing advancement began to stagnate. The rest of the 1st world was rebuilding and forced to learn new things while the US was cultivating an arrogant complacency. It took time for the others to catch up and stigmas to fade, but America had already lost its momentum. There was a pen on the wall in the 70s. The writing was there in the 80s. We all read it in the 90s. There are more reasons as well, but it really all comes down to the fact that after the US dropped the bomb in Japan, we thought our dicks were so big we wouldn’t have to wiggle them anymore.
rdadeo@reddit
Early to mid 70's the decline started. The Northstar was the nail for the coffin.
It's good to see Cady reinventing itself, but GM as a whole (all North American manufacturers if we are being honest) is/are one step away from the toilet bowl these days.
Revolutionary_Cry884@reddit
They think they still are, but the Starbucks moms and thugs seem to prefer the Escalade.
aipac125@reddit
When imports came in.
bigcee42@reddit
Ironically, Cadillac makes the best sports sedans today.
Traditional-Speed349@reddit
When they grew to over 30 feet long
IAmSpitfireJoe@reddit
1982 with the release of the HT4100 engine
Louis_R27@reddit
Late 80s.
80IHCTraveler@reddit
When Cadillac went all plastic, they stopped being special. In the '50s, a Cadillac was built like nothing else. Dash was metal, everything was power, had the first OHV V8 in a mass produced car. They were special and everyone knew it. Then the '60s came, and then the '70s, and Cadillac was left with overweight, underpowered, plastic vehicles that didn't compete with Europe. This is a big reason I've always been partial to Buicks, at least parts are cheap and plentiful, and they are actually reliable. Then in the '90s, the Euro and Japanese luxury brands came out with computerized hydraulic suspensions and messaging seats, while something like a DeVille had air shocks and a Northstar known for being the worst engine to ever leave Detroit. Now, most Cadillacs might as well be Buick models, save for the V Series cars and the Escalade.
One_Evil_Monkey@reddit
About the time that long fur coats, wide brim hats with a feather, white dress shoes, and diamond handle canes also began to fall out of fashion. Haha
FarSink4547@reddit
When you couldn’t even drive them off the dealer lot before they broke down. Lots of the electronics very unreliable plus people want good gas mileage even if they can afford a luxury car
Fellwuckly@reddit
When they stopped making the cts-v wagon
digitaldisorder_@reddit
Gosh back in the 70s? You mean like when there were 3 car companies? And Cadillac was the luxury one back then instead of the Ford Pinto? How is this possible with so many luxury vehicle options back then?
wrapscallionnn@reddit
When you bought one brand new, drove it around the corner, and the bumper fell off.
Mr_MacGrubber@reddit
I’d say when the Japanese came out with Lexus, Acura, etc. Smaller more efficient cars that weren’t as expensive as the Germans.
StrikingTradition75@reddit
50 year old. I have owned exactly one American made car, the Chevy Citation and I should have received a citation for driving that mis-engineered piece of garbage. I have NEVER bought an American made car after that experience.
Growing up, my elderly neighbors all owned Cadillacs. It was their symbol that they finally "made it" in their final years. After they closed their eyes, their family was saddled with selling their land yachts that no buyer wanted.
To me, a Cadillac is a symbol of old age just as much as grey hair, walkers, and Colonial Life commercials. They failed to refresh the brand and have aged out their customers.
lethargicbureaucrat@reddit
My dad briefly owned a 1974 Chevy Vega then he bought a Chevy Citation. I won't ever buy a GM product because GM stole his money by selling him those disasters.
Infinite_Wisdom_6969@reddit
When Cadillac has out-BMW'd BMW with the Blackwings, I would say Cadillac makes some damn fine cars.
I own a CT4 Blackwing and a CTS V Coupe, and would trade them for nothing. It's too bad that old biases die hard, but it is what it is.
I couldn't be happier with my Cadillacs, and my wife loves her XT6 Sport Platinum. My parents love their Escalade. All 4 have been extremely trouble free.
Again...old biases die hard. Oh well.
Outrageous-Ad-3216@reddit
In the later 1990s Cadillac became more interested in what car magazine editors said they wanted in cars instead of what their customers wanted. So while Cadillac tried to become an American BMW, the Japanese luxury brands (especially Lexus) came in and scooped up the traditional Cadillac buyers.
More_Gummies@reddit
Definitely when the OPEC crisis hit in the mid-70s the writing was on the wall. Having said that my Dad had both a used 1969 and 1973 Eldorado, and they were awesome. I remember how it was so cool we owned a Caddilac, and we were just middle class (my mom drove a used AMC Hornet). He held on to the second one for about 10 years, long enough that when I first got my license I was able to drive it a lot.
At that point it started to rust out (like many 10 year old cars of that era), but it so fun to drive as a 16 year old kid! It was huge, and since it was a coupe the doors were enormous, and the hood went on forever. Nothing like cruising around my small rural town and stomping on it, making those front wheel drive tires spin and having that 500 cubic inch V8 come to life (and watch the gas gauge quickly drop cause needless to say it had a terrible MPG). Good times!
Few_Aside5151@reddit
Northstar engine
LagerGuyPa@reddit
Only Caddy could make a car MORE catered to New balance and Jorts than the corvette; The XLR-V
Far_Negotiation8009@reddit
1973
mrsroperscaftan@reddit
Don’t you remember in Pretty Woman when RICHARD DAMN GERE comes to save Julia Roberts he showed up in a white Cadillac limousine? Yes they were the statements cars to own in the day.
Debate_fly@reddit
Everyone is pinning this to the Cimmaron which definitely accelerated the decline but it started earlier. Around 1972 my grandfather bought an Audi A100 because there were no American luxury cars that handled well, were built well and weren’t bloated.
I don’t think he was the only one who felt that way.
Adventurous-Hyena366@reddit
When Cadillac stopped being the best (or perceived to be the best) at anything. Lexus and Mercedes became best at reliability. BMW at performance. Rolls Royce and Maybach at the classic, Cadillac-style luxury. Anyone but Cadillac for styling. Cadillacs of the past 30 years look OK-at-best when new, but somehow look cheap or outdated within two years.
Gvelm@reddit
Cadillac began to lose its reign as the American luxury brand in the '80s. Bad marketing decisions didn't help, but the real killer was its lack of refinement compared to its European competition. Where BMW had performance, and Mercedes and Jaguar had burled wood dashboards and supreme fitted seats, Cadillac offered plastic steering wheels, plastic dashes, and cloth seats as standards. You could get a few refining touches, but they were all expensive options, whereas they were standard features elsewhere. By the time they caught up in performance, with the CTS package, they'd lost market share that they would never get back.
Aloha-Eh@reddit
The Avalanche based Escalade made me laugh, a lot.
I saw Navy E-3s 25 years ago willing to have $900/month payments to own an Escalade. Giggedy.
Cadillac went from an older folks status symbol to a young, dumb folks status symbol. Anymore, does anyone even care?
GhoulishGuitarist@reddit
No one considered Cadillac a good car. Good old cars are Buicks. Low class dirt poor Americans thought Cadillacs were cool
theaveragegazoo@reddit
Quality issues I think, fit and finish is trash starting in late 90s for sure
Due-Effect-3543@reddit
To my mind, some of the WWII generation were fond of Cadillacs, but not so much younger generations.
ThePlatinumPaul@reddit
Cadillac went down the toilet in the 70's when emissions regulations choked their engines to the point you were getting only 120 hp out of a giant 7 liter V8. The 80's and 90's only got worse when GM decided to start their cost cutting binges. Plastic instead of real wood, switches and levers shared with Chevys. Build quality went down, repairability got worse. Meanwhile while all of this was happening, Mercedes and BMW were getting more and more popular, especially in the 80's. Then Lexus in the 90's showed you could make a better car cheaper.
The sad thing is the Escalade, well the second gen on, showed that Cadillacs can be good again. Unfortunately, the branch cachet it built along with the V cars ended when they decided to go full EV with weird names vs giving people what they actually want.
Educational_Bench290@reddit
When every other car started including the features that made Cadillacs special: a/c, power windows, power seats, leather, etc etc. Into the 70s, these set Cadillacs apart. Not any more
RumWalker@reddit
The Cadillac Cimarron was truly a Chevy with a Cadillac badge on it, and it was the peak of the malaise era. Combined with GM sliding Cadillac closer and closer to Chevy in price and production numbers, and sharing platforms to reduce costs, the cars just stopped being high class and distinct. Then European luxury started competing.
AaronJudge2@reddit
Cadillac Cimarron, 1982-1988.
Overall-Tailor8949@reddit
When GM decided that slapping a different label/badge on a vehicle moved it to a different division (Chevrolet to Cadillac) and warranted a 50% price hike. Note, consolidating platforms isn't necessarily a bad thing, IF you base the platform on the upper level and decrease the trim levels for the cheaper versions.
Others have mentioned the Cavalier -> Cimarron and that was a telling point in the decline. That same time frame marked the beginning of the end for Oldsmobile and Pontiac.
series-hybrid@reddit
The first three years of the Northstar V8 was a defining moment. There are several kits to repair the design weaknesses, and all of them would have been easy to implement on the assembly line for another $100 each. The scandal cost GM millions of dollars and threw away a ton of good will among their core customers who had money to spend and previously would only buy Cadillac, nothing else.
RunninOnMT@reddit
1972
autovelo@reddit
Cadillac only lead when there wasn’t any competition. Once luxury imports grew, Cadillac couldn’t compete. It’s easy to win a contest without competition.
Stuck_in_my_TV@reddit
When they became known for being very unreliable despite a high price tag, foreign imports could match or surpass the luxury for the same or cheaper price, and those foreign cars could be more reliable like Acura and Lexus.
VivienM7@reddit
I don't think unreliability is that much of a concern in the luxury market, though. The Germans went from a reputation for rock-solid reliability in the 1990s and earlier to... quite the opposite, and it hasn't really affected their sales.
But what they did largely maintain is their brand image and their coolness.
ConstantMedium9902@reddit
When BMW and Merc took over in the 70s and 80s
Practical-Earth3228@reddit
once the tech that made them special started being put into more mainstream vehicles.
Yea lets pay 75% more money for a reskinned chevy.
Ambitious-Intern-928@reddit
There's no comparison between "luxury" vehicles and regular even if they have the same features. The luxury branded vehicles are always much heavier, not the soda can steel and plastic regular vehicles are made out of. And they almost always have more power.
You can pack all the features into a Chevy, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia etc as you want, you're still not gonna have that heavy duty feel, that satisfying clunk when you close the door vs a basic car where the door weighs 5 lbs and rattles when you slam it.
Mattna-da@reddit
Stock traders and lawyers started driving Porsches and BMWs in the 80s
VivienM7@reddit
That, in my mind, is the key thing. Your boomer-type bankers/lawyers/etc started driving German in the 1980s. Cadillac largely responded by doubling down on the older crowd (with some half-hearted attempts like the Seville) and morphed from a brand driven by Don Draper up-and-coming hotshots in the 1960s to a brand driven by retirees.
Soggy-Attempt@reddit
Several things.
Quality declined.
Japan companies launched luxury cars
Gas emission standard tightened.
SUV’s became a thing.
dsmber10@reddit
It started in the 70’s when they started selling huge amounts of cars at prices that weren’t much higher than a loaded Caprice. A lot of lower class folks started stretching into them and that was one thing that started to diminish its prestige. The combination of lower quality and the incursion of imported luxury cars also was a big issue. Especially with younger buyers. At that point a Cadillac was still prestigious, but 20-something baby boomers with lots of money were getting into Bimmers and Benzes. The ones who couldn’t afford one yet aspired to have one.
As the 80’s rolled on, that same generation started to get soured on Domestic cars. At that point GM had a lot of customers who climbed the Sloan ladder eventually getting into a Cadillac. The new generation of car buyers were scrambling that because they were trading their Cutlasses for Accord’s instead of Delta 88’s and eventually going to cars that were more similar in ethos like Cressida’s Acura’s and BMW’s.
Lexus plunged the death blow with the LS 400. That car poached a lot of existing Cadillac buyers as well as ascendant buyers of lower cost imports. It also set a chain reaction that wound up making the German big 3 less expensive and ratcheting up sales. Those boomers who lusted after German cars in the 70’s but couldn’t afford them now had money and started buying them. Their kids did too and by default thought of Cadillacs as cheesy cars for old people and SUV’s for rappers.
whatsapprocky@reddit
I knew the times were changing when my dad who was so obsessed with Cadillacs (he owned two throughout my early childhood in the early-mid 2000s), suddenly bought a SUV before I was a teenager. He’s had some kind of Chevy Tahoe ever since.
JDub-866@reddit
POS American made cars that fall apart. My dad had one always bought GM stuff..... 2005 he bought a Lexus and is never bought another GM product
Active_Scholar_2154@reddit
1970s
davidmar7@reddit
I'd say up until the late 80s it was a great car for anyone to own. Around the mid to late 90s it transitioned into the preferred car for the elderly.
AaronJudge2@reddit
Definitely by the 1990’s. And by the 2000’s, except for the occasional Escalade, you never saw them. Everyone was driving BMW’s or Mercedes or Lexuses. Cadillacs were considered old people’s cars by that point, just like Lincolns.
MansomeHan@reddit
Don’t forget the Northstar engines that blew head bolts and gaskets regularly.
No_Sleep_69@reddit
Gas prices
Grey-2Ton@reddit
The Japanese makes like Lexus and Acura.
blizzard7788@reddit
My dad had a 1993 Fleetwood. He was so proud of it. The last 5 years of his life he couldn’t drive it, so I drove him to the numerous dr visits. I hated that car. The mirrors were tiny and in wrong place and shape. The suspension was like driving on a trampoline. And it wasn’t comfortable to drive. I put it up for sale after he died two years ago. It took 8 months at a consignment dealer despite being in great shape.
OtterCreek_Andrew@reddit
Like 2009
EddieKroman@reddit
The Fleetwood from the 1990’s was the last great classic Cadillac sedan. A friend of mine had a FWD Seville STS, and it was a very comfortable, competent road car. But for us older guys, it seems the Fleetwood marked the end of it. The Cadillacs and the Lincolns were always very nice cars. Mercedes was sold to a different type of clientele. BMW’s were definitely marketed to the Yuppies in the 1980’s, and Volvo went down the same path. When Lexus and Infiniti showed up, it put everyone on notice. My next car will be a luxury sedan, and it looks like my first choice is Lexus. Hopefully I can still get a sedan at that point, the SUV’s seem to be taking over the world.
SnooCakes8914@reddit
1978-79 use of an under engineered diesel V8, 1981 V8-6-4, 1982 HT4100 V8 and of course the Cadillac based J-car.
reading-not-writing@reddit
Let's not forget the V8-6-4 engine. What a disaster
rudbri93@reddit
Ill say in the 80s when the european manufacturers solidified their foothold in our market and really came out swinging.
sesquialtera_II@reddit
The 1970s gas-price crisis destroyed the business case for Cadillac along with a shift in taste from floating down the highway in living-room-on-wheels to a more engaged driving style that the Mercedes sedans of the time offered.
The brand's fortunes have revived a lot in the last ten years or so, as its top offerings (V-series Blackwings) are highly admired. Sales numbers are still struggling.
BonesCrosby@reddit
I don’t think there’s any one specific where it stopped, although the Cimmaron works for me.
I’ll say this: pre WW2 Caddies looked as good as anything made by Mercedes, imo. Rolls Royce is the only relatively well known carmaker that topped them.
After WW2, Cadillac is a status symbol until the 80’s, but IMO Mercedes and BMW overtook them in the 70’s.
komatiite@reddit
As I recall, it was between 1975 and 1980. Imports like the Mercedes 450SE and BMW 735i were big, powerful, comfortable, and perceived as more reliable and safe than Caddy.
Minimum-Function1312@reddit
I’m old, but we didn’t like Cadillacs, we thought they were old people cars.
CommunityNo3399@reddit
When people saw how much better German and Japanese cars were.
RememberWhen-2819@reddit
Lexus and infinity.
MagnusAlbusPater@reddit
How far Infonity has fallen.
But really it was Mercedes and BMW that became the symbols of success in the 80s and continue to be.
gazingus@reddit
Sure, the Cimmaron was a huge flaunt of wealth and stuff.
Sad_Construction_668@reddit
During the 80’s they tried to inflate margins by selling rebadged J-body crap for premium prices and they just never stopped- for every interesting full-size premium vehicle which felt like a Cadillac, youd shave 2-3 models of flashy, expensive rebadged Opels.
and then The Northstar happened.
MVmikehammer@reddit
Around 1980s. They had a series of low points starting with the 80s (the v8-6-4, the ht-4100, the Oldsmobile diesel engines, the Chevy 5.0, the Cimarron, the bustleback Seville) and continuing into the 90s with the Northstar. And the Cimarron slop tried the second time with a Catera. Also the financially very questionable Allante.
The 92-96 Fleetwood Brougham was the one high-point of the 1990s.
JustAnotherFNC@reddit
It was definitely pre-70s/80s when Cadillac was “the car”. You’re talking 40s, 50s, and 60s.
Which makes sense as that’s when he probably grew up.
Caddy definitely “fell off” hardest in the 80s though, right about when GM badge engineered the hell out of them.
Same for Lincoln really. They both lost their identity.
ivel33@reddit
When they became absolute junk
OkCartographer175@reddit
In the 80s the gas crises made fuel-inefficient cars way less popular. Japanese cars got a foothold in the US market at the time for their efficiency, and so a lot of Americans stopped being as die-hard for Americans cars as they had previously been. This opened the door for Americans to also start considering German and Japanese luxury models. Then it became even more "you made it" that you had a foreign luxury car.
Common-Pay-3869@reddit
Since the Japanese cars were so much better in reliability, they just took over