TheaterFire

Why is setting someone on fire if they attempt to murder you with machetes considered reckless use of lethal force?

Posted by Proper_Tough_997@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 29 comments

[removed]

Reply to Post

29 Comments

Chicken_shish@reddit

How would you set them on fire?
View on Reddit #85448770

Dimac99@reddit

It's less "how would you set them on fire?" than "how would you set them on fire without also setting yourself on fire at the same time?" As self-defense methods go, it's probably one of the stupider ones.
View on Reddit #85470569

Chicken_shish@reddit

Well quite, am curious, Does OP have a flame thrower that is precise enough to set a burglar on fire, and nothing else. If yes, cool, where did he buy it?
View on Reddit #85491931

Front_Society1353@reddit

Yes you have slightly more headroom when using the self defence defence. Although I doubt burning someone to death would be covered
View on Reddit #85482899

Front_Society1353@reddit

Self defence law asks for "Resonable Force" killing them with a machete or gun would be resonable. The fact fire wouldn't be instant and cause extreme pain would probably be judged as unreasonable
View on Reddit #85449253

TomatoMiserable3043@reddit

Only if you had the machete or firearm within easy reach so as to make use of the 'instant arming' defence, and I can't think of a situation where this would apply to a legally held firearm. You couldn't go to your cabinet, unlock it, get your gun out, go to a separate cabinet, unlock it, get your ammo, load your firearm and shoot an intruder and call it 'instant arming', and there's no lawful reason to keep a firearm and ammo just sitting in easy reach.
View on Reddit #85449675

Front_Society1353@reddit

Look up the case of Tony Martin, he heard people break in and killed 2 with his legally owned shotgun. Self Defence was accepted as a legit defence for one of the killings. He was convicted of the other because he shot them as they were fleeing. It is possible to use a firearm for self defence under very specific circumstances
View on Reddit #85450288

Neither_Process_7847@reddit

People miss that defending your own home has different rules to in public.
View on Reddit #85481491

Neither_Process_7847@reddit

In defending yourself at home, anything short of grossly unreasonable force is allowed, and by grossly unreasonable were talking shooting them in the back from ambush with an illegally owned weapon while they were already leaving after boasting about looking forward to killing the next burglar...setting your own house on fire mignt not fail that test but would seem unwise..l
View on Reddit #85481420

evenifihateit@reddit

I don't know if it always would be. I can't imagine a situation where I could think of doing this let alone do it, but I suppose I can imagine a scenario where doing something thay set someone on fire *was* reasonable use of force. It would be a very rare situation though wouldn't it and probably not worth thinking too much about.
View on Reddit #85458042

peppermint_aero@reddit

This is weirdly specific 
View on Reddit #85455592

ARobertNotABob@reddit

Reckless in that if there are other occupants of the house/building, you may also cause their unintentional demise.
View on Reddit #85452870

TraditionalScheme337@reddit

A very strange question but as a former police officer, I can answer it. The laws of self defence do allow you to use reasonable force to defend yourself, its true. There is also a thing called "instant arming" so thats when you pick up whatever is around you and use it as a weopon to defend yourself. That's probably what you would be using if someone broke in. So I am in my kitchen now, someone breaks in with a machete and I grab a knife from my kitchen block, thats perfectly legal. I am not expected to use minimal force, thats not practical, so if I kill them while defending myself like that, I should be fine and there have been cases where people have fought back in their homes, killed the intruder and not been convicted. Now we come to setting people on fire. I really cant see many circumstances where you are going to be instant arming yourself with something thats going to do that. Remember, you have to argue you were defending yourself in the moment, not due to a threat or something like that. So while lethal force as self defence can be legal in the right circumstances, I cant think of any where setting someone on fire would fit the bill.
View on Reddit #85450088

GlitchingGecko@reddit

You can defend yourself with intent to stop the attack. You cannot defend yourself with the intent to kill. If you set someone on fire accidentally because they attacked you whilst you were lighting a BBQ, you'd probably get away with it. If you put down a baseball bat to pick up a flamethrower, that's not gonna fly.
View on Reddit #85449575

TomatoMiserable3043@reddit

In short, the law is that you can use reasonable and proportionate force to defend yourself, others or your property, up to and including lethal force. You can use force to prevent injury to yourself, others or property in common law. This includes pre-emptive strike. You can use force to prevent crime or effect an arrest under S3 of the Criminal Law Act 1967. If you end up in court, any use of of force will be judged based on your honestly held belief at the time, as per S76 of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008. Also within this act (S76 5(a)), it's worth noting that, in your own home, force can be disproportionate- just not grossly so.
View on Reddit #85449195

knightsbridge-@reddit

Setting someone on fire is fairly difficult. It requires you to have access to a source of fire to begin with, and then to successfully ignite someone's clothing, which probably requires an accelerant of some kind. Basically, it's really unlikely that it's a practical option for repelling an attacker. UK law allows for *reasonable* levels of self defence. That usually covers things like hitting, kicking, biting, grappling, maybe hitting them with an object you have handy. It generally doesn't cover stabbing, burning, and other forms of lethal force, but it always depends on the situation. My real question is what kind of day you're having that made you think about this at all.
View on Reddit #85449116

ImmediatePiano6690@reddit

Well setting a fire in your own house would be rather reckless, not only would you be killing the attackers but also your entire house and potentially you, so everyone goes down with the ship essentially.
View on Reddit #85449105

these_metal_hands@reddit

I just can't fathom a situation where setting someone on fire is reasonable force... It takes so long? Do you just have a flame thrower sitting there? WTF?
View on Reddit #85449009

SnooMacarons2598@reddit

As I understand it they say that it’s about reasonable force and the expected outcome. Ie if you are an archer and you have your bow in hand and someone tries to steal your car it’s reasonable to shoot them with it as the outcome can be reasonably expected to be none fatal but more than is required to stop them would be considered in reasonable. I think the difference is that the only expected outcome of immolating someone would be death therefore it’s classed as unreasonable. At least how I interpret it. Hope that helps.
View on Reddit #85448988

bahumat42@reddit

I cant think of many situations where using fire to defend yourself is actually a practical option. Best case is setting a deadly trap, but that in of itself is a pre-meditated action and disproportionate to a home invader, who you can't really know the intent until they are actual there doing the thing. Using enough fire to remove the threat in turn creates the risk of a house fire, which ignoring the immediate risk of you losing your house is a threat to other nearby houses and people. Fire is pretty indiscriminate once it gets going, and I'm going to be honest from your line of thought I don't think you are someone predisposed with others safety.
View on Reddit #85448975

SlickPillock@reddit

Why are you worrying about this? Are you expecting someone to break into your home in the near future or is it more a theoretical question?
View on Reddit #85448960

ImmediatePiano6690@reddit

Well t
View on Reddit #85448830

jonpenryn@reddit

What sort of bot fantasy is this likely?
View on Reddit #85448808

Pedantichrist@reddit

Are you okay?
View on Reddit #85448709

Voodoopulse@reddit

You've got some problems Stan, I think you need some counselling
View on Reddit #85448624

ClimbsNFlysThings@reddit

Sorry, again in English?
View on Reddit #85446081

Proper_Tough_997@reddit (OP)

Haha my bad im not good with English, basically if someone attempts to off you with swords why is setting on fire considered disproportionate force.
View on Reddit #85446288

UnacceptableUse@reddit

Unless that has been proven in an actual case where that has happened it's impossible to say whether or not it would be considered appropriate
View on Reddit #85448469

AutoModerator@reddit

**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!** - When replying to submission/post please **make genuine efforts to answer the question given**. Please no jokes, judgements, etc. If a post is marked 'Serious Answers Only' **you may receive a ban for violating this rule**. - **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on. - This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit! Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
View on Reddit #85446017