I know the plane is a success. But it does not seem to have been as much a success as it predecessor aircraft like the F-15.. It does not have the similar lengthy development into various versions and such. It does not seem to have a similar developmental longevity is what I am struggling to convey I guess. It is almost as if it has been abandoned and not been further developed. Curious how that came to be. It seems to me there was much room for improvement.
The funding dried up because the USSR was gone. No near peer threats decided to attempt to make a plane to counter.
It was abandoned specifically because congress wouldn't allow it to continue being funded because they put more funding towards counter insurgency operations. 750 were supposed to be built and instead we got 187. The irony being that because of economics of scale they cost more per unit than if we got the whole 750.
Basically every reason you say it isn't good comes down to it not having the funding because of politics and world events.
The 15 as a storied development starting a combined strike and air superiority fighter. Western observations of the MiG-25 led to a change of requirements to a pure air superiority aircraft designed around air-to-air missiles, despite the fact that the 25 was nothing but a pure interceptor aircraft. The "fighter mafia" on other hand pushed lightweight fighters focused on maneuverability and dog-fighting while being cheaper, and leading to the F-16 and the F-18(a development of the program as the YF-17). The missile based armament of the 15 meant a capable and likewise heavy radar and supporting electronics. Both the light weight fighter, the F-16, and the heavier more capable F-15, went into production. Effectively a "high" and "low" cost and capability setup.
Apart from the large acquisition from the USAF the US also allowed Japan to license produce the F-15 not to long after it enter development. The F-15 later evolved in to a ground attack aircraft, the F-15E, and now the current in acquisition F-15EX. It was also, relatively speaking, widely exported.
The F-22 started development in the early 80s as a pure air superiority aircraft against Soviet craft, the Su-27 Flanker and MiG-29. Like the F-15 it was a balls to the wall, no cost spared program involving many new technologies. It was the first "heavily" computerized US aircraft with over a million lines of code. The F-22 went through some radical changes in 1991 as the project moved to the engineering and manufacturing development(EMD) phase of development, the same year the Cold War ended. Defense spending was massively cut, and defense contractors rapidly merged and monopolized.
A major point was the F-22 was banned from being exported. It also had a massively delayed timeline because of the end of the Cold War. Production numbers were continuously cut for over a decade. Initial production wasn't until 1996 which proceeded at a very low rate until 2011. Not only had the primary threat eroded, but the US was involved in two insurgency wars that ended up being the two longest wars in US history; Iraq and Afghanistan. The expensive F-22 had no adversaries, and no real purpose.
I always felt there was something a little bit off about the YF-22, but I couldn't figure out what it was. I think it's the canopy, and how it's placed further back than the one on the F-22.
It's great of course but every time I see videos about the F22 I think about the same videos of flight testing YF23 and I think what could have been....
Itaintall@reddit
Worked at Northrop during the ATF years. I still can't believe that piece of garbage won.
lmgcom@reddit (OP)
:-)
GreenRanger_2@reddit
It’s funny because they changed a TON of stuff from the test version to the production version… still cooler than the YF-23 though
waldo--pepper@reddit
I know the plane is a success. But it does not seem to have been as much a success as it predecessor aircraft like the F-15.. It does not have the similar lengthy development into various versions and such. It does not seem to have a similar developmental longevity is what I am struggling to convey I guess. It is almost as if it has been abandoned and not been further developed. Curious how that came to be. It seems to me there was much room for improvement.
Waste_Curve994@reddit
Export ban was specifically so Israel couldn’t buy it then sell the technology to the Russians.
Ws6fiend@reddit
Ice cold take.
The funding dried up because the USSR was gone. No near peer threats decided to attempt to make a plane to counter.
It was abandoned specifically because congress wouldn't allow it to continue being funded because they put more funding towards counter insurgency operations. 750 were supposed to be built and instead we got 187. The irony being that because of economics of scale they cost more per unit than if we got the whole 750.
Basically every reason you say it isn't good comes down to it not having the funding because of politics and world events.
Plump_Apparatus@reddit
Eh, the Cold War ended.
The 15 as a storied development starting a combined strike and air superiority fighter. Western observations of the MiG-25 led to a change of requirements to a pure air superiority aircraft designed around air-to-air missiles, despite the fact that the 25 was nothing but a pure interceptor aircraft. The "fighter mafia" on other hand pushed lightweight fighters focused on maneuverability and dog-fighting while being cheaper, and leading to the F-16 and the F-18(a development of the program as the YF-17). The missile based armament of the 15 meant a capable and likewise heavy radar and supporting electronics. Both the light weight fighter, the F-16, and the heavier more capable F-15, went into production. Effectively a "high" and "low" cost and capability setup.
Apart from the large acquisition from the USAF the US also allowed Japan to license produce the F-15 not to long after it enter development. The F-15 later evolved in to a ground attack aircraft, the F-15E, and now the current in acquisition F-15EX. It was also, relatively speaking, widely exported.
The F-22 started development in the early 80s as a pure air superiority aircraft against Soviet craft, the Su-27 Flanker and MiG-29. Like the F-15 it was a balls to the wall, no cost spared program involving many new technologies. It was the first "heavily" computerized US aircraft with over a million lines of code. The F-22 went through some radical changes in 1991 as the project moved to the engineering and manufacturing development(EMD) phase of development, the same year the Cold War ended. Defense spending was massively cut, and defense contractors rapidly merged and monopolized.
A major point was the F-22 was banned from being exported. It also had a massively delayed timeline because of the end of the Cold War. Production numbers were continuously cut for over a decade. Initial production wasn't until 1996 which proceeded at a very low rate until 2011. Not only had the primary threat eroded, but the US was involved in two insurgency wars that ended up being the two longest wars in US history; Iraq and Afghanistan. The expensive F-22 had no adversaries, and no real purpose.
Parking-Business-894@reddit
I always felt there was something a little bit off about the YF-22, but I couldn't figure out what it was. I think it's the canopy, and how it's placed further back than the one on the F-22.
WarthogOsl@reddit
Having the intakes overlap the canopy reminds me of the F-102. I did like the pointier nose on the YF-22 better, though.
Max-entropy999@reddit
It's great of course but every time I see videos about the F22 I think about the same videos of flight testing YF23 and I think what could have been....
_stack_underflow_@reddit
Woah, how have I not seen this before.
CocoSavege@reddit
And I just saw this...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_FB-22#/media/File%3AFB-22-4_launching_JASSM_300x273.jpg
CrouchingToaster@reddit
“Fine if you wanna cancel the A-12 we’ll make your F-22 into an A-12”
CocoSavege@reddit
I mistook the A12 for the A10 and I was excited to Google.
Cesalv@reddit