I lived there for 8 years. Wildfires (fueldled by drought), landslides, and earthquakes are all major concerns... a volcanic eruption is highly unlikely but still a possibility worth considering as well
I have made it simple and will shelter in my basement .. thick clear plastic and the ability to access my water makes it the perfect place to stay
Luckily for us our 130 year old house sits right atop a natural spring we can ( if needed because of an EMP or Nuclear attack )
we can easily break the concrete floor and tap into the spring .
Remember that if we have a real SHTF long crisis that your Hvac wont run. So being underground that far will provide natural cooling ..
We realistically plan for no working gas pumps for a generator . No electricity ( possibly for ever ) and no FEMA .
Make the whole thing 24x32, you will thank me later for the extra 6 ft. Your for print is the same size as my cabin. Make the side walls 12 get high and you can build a rated for to allow storage underneath with hinged panels. The vertical walls can be used as storage as well between the studs and just covered with sheet rock (fireproofing).
I think you need to go back way before the drawing board. Your headspace is all wrong for me. Why tell us how much room and space and thought you've put into firearm rounds when you don't tell us anything about your root cellar, your garden fencing, your meat preservation, etc?
Or is that what the 1 year supplies for necessities are for?
Eat bucket slop, shoot, and reload your days away?
At least one more 90 degree turn in the entrance. Where is the secondary exit?
10 feet of earth is overkill and a lot of weight for what I'm assuming is a poured concrete or block based shelter?
3 feet of earth gives you a PF of 1,000 If your not in a blast area- in which case MOVE don't build- a PF of 1,000 is more than adequate and 3 foot of earth is a much lighter load than 10 feet. On culvert and tank shelters the earth arching allows this much without any flex in the structure, you can drive backhoes over them...
Advantage of being on the West coast there is you likely won't get as much early fallout as places on the East coast will. You could receive later fallout from China/NK/Russia etc. but later it wouldn't be as bad.
One big living space isn't always the best option. At the very least small partitions for individual bunk areas for individuals and/or families. Looks like your 12x24 in your "main living area", doesn't give a boatload of space, but we are talking fallout shelter not the Ritz Carlton... One division in that room would be possible and likely very useful later. Psychologically having a place to go and "blow off steam", or have sex, just "be alone for a while" etc. is going to be important. Ideally everyone needs a small bit of "personal space" and this helps with sanity.
Where I've seen people mess up with poured concrete shelters- old customer in TX didn't have any building experience but had someone there build him a poured concrete shelter. They made NO appropriations for any ingress into the shelter except ONE door. Later he was scrambling to try to figure out how to get wires in from his seismic intrusion detectors, camera, comm wires, electrical, plumbing and of course septic... No plans were made for water infiltration. I don't GAF if your building in the high desert, PLAN for water to get into your shelter and have several solid plans to get it out- thank me later... Having seen and toured a few "underground aquariums" I can't stress this point enough. And not that long ago here someone posted complaining about some "premier" shelter company they (over)spent $200K with for a culvert shelter and how it now had leaks. I tried to help him with actual ideas that have worked in similar (albeit not getting screwed on price) culvert shelters but the guy was more interested in bitching about the company and thinking that "sueing" them would make something happen.... PLAN for water infiltration and how to deal with it. It's going to happen. This isn't a survivalist secret, anyone that has lived with a basement knows sooner or later you get water in it.
Heavy duty shelves that double as bunks are very helpful. These can be easily made with 4x8 sheet of 3/4 plywood rip to 2x8, then framed out on the perimeter with 2x4s and reinforced every 2 feet. Bunks/shelving units can be made with these and 3 each "legs" - ends and middle to support the shelving/bunks. At the minimum you can hang curtains on these for privacy. Again, not the Ritz Carlton but having some spent "some time" in one or two bunks built like this it's livable. Camping mats fit these nicely.
I do sketches the same way you do, 2' per square and all that, I laughed when I saw your drawing as it looked like something I would have done, LOL.
3 feet of earth gives you a PF of 1,000 If your not in a blast area- in which case MOVE don't build- a PF of 1,000 is more than adequate and 3 foot of earth is a much lighter load than 10 feet.
PF is actually higher than that.
A halving thickness is 3.6 inches of packed dirt, so 3 feet (36 inches) is 2^(10) = 1,024 protection factor. Obviously we use 1,000 as a convenient short-cut.
But we also have that concrete slab that is 4 inches, and the halving thickness of concrete is 2.4 inches, and 4 / 2.4 = 1.67, so it's actually a protection factor of 2^((10+1.67)) = \~3,260 inside the actual shelter itself.
As planned by OP, the PF would be 2^(((10 * 12) / 3.6) + 1.67) = 34.36 *BILLION*.
It sounds like he is just spitballing. Real world building would definitely make him change some things based on cost, load bearing of 10' of earth, etc. And again no real reason you would likely HAVE to have that much.
3 foot I know I can dig out of in a catastrophic situation. 10 not so much.
Your missing a second exit. i’d add a purpose built bedroom and a more comfortable washroom, and a proper kitchen. the living area would have a table and couch (that can fold out into a bed). Some of my flexible design ideas are marked on the plan.
How many people do you plan to house? it makes a difference if you intend this solely for yourself or plan for a family with kids, or plan to house a dozen people.
Design wise i would add a false floor about a foot deep for storage. I would cover it with 2x2 plywood squares (with a hole drilled or corner cut out to lift them up). the cost of having your ceiling be a foot higher is less than the cost of extra square footage. I’d add rugs over the plywood.
If you really want to add a challenge to this brainstorming activity, start asking yourself how to make your underground bunker stealthy so less people notice it. It's a tough problem when it comes to heat signatures and air vents...
Guessing here, but it looks like general prep for long-term collapse of modern infrastructure rather than a specific doomsday event. I'd be interested to hear the OP's answer to the questions though.
Solid foundation honestly, the NBC filtered HVAC and water storage combo alone puts this ahead of most designs people throw together. A few things I'd think about adding or considering:
Communications. A way to monitor what's happening outside without exposing yourself matters a lot, even just a hand crank shortwave radio or a dedicated HAM setup. Knowing when it's safe to surface is just as important as being able to stay down there.
Air intake redundancy. If your primary filtered intake gets compromised or blocked you want a backup option, even a manual one.
Medical supplies beyond basic first aid. A year in with no outside help means dental issues, infections, or injuries need more than a standard kit can handle.
Sanitation plan. 3000 gallons covers drinking and cooking but waste management in a sealed shelter for extended stays is something a lot of designs underestimate.
Mental health consideration. A year underground with people is genuinely hard. Some kind of entertainment, routine structure, or even just defined personal space goes a long way.
Otherwise the diesel and solar redundancy is smart, and having spare parts for critical systems is something most people completely overlook so good that it's already in there.
I assumed he meant "a year of supplies" as in just storage area. Highly unlikely he would NEED to stay underground for more than maybe a month. Only his survey meter and measurements would tell him that for sure.
You've dedicated 108 square feet to weapons and ammo. You could accomplish the same practical thing with efficient use of space in a 10 square foot closet.
If its something you would be in for awhile it's important to not forget disposal of poop and piss. It will add up quickly and become unsanitary in there.
Many-Health-1673@reddit
I take it this is for nuclear blast protection?
Signal_Team1778@reddit (OP)
Anything CBN. My state doesn’t get natural disasters.
adhd_mechanic@reddit
Every state gets natural disasters, don't kid yourself.
Signal_Team1778@reddit (OP)
North west Washington gets wildfires and floods but nowhere near where I am
Some_Guy106@reddit
The nuclear hit list was leaked and Washington is the only state without targets
adhd_mechanic@reddit
I lived there for 8 years. Wildfires (fueldled by drought), landslides, and earthquakes are all major concerns... a volcanic eruption is highly unlikely but still a possibility worth considering as well
Signal_Team1778@reddit (OP)
You are completely right. My only problem is that I’m not skilled enough to make a shock absorber system for earthquakes hah
BuildingLow6530@reddit
nessuno si chiede invece come fare se la corrente elettrica dovesse smettere di funzionare?
Old_Dragonfruit6952@reddit
I have made it simple and will shelter in my basement .. thick clear plastic and the ability to access my water makes it the perfect place to stay
Luckily for us our 130 year old house sits right atop a natural spring we can ( if needed because of an EMP or Nuclear attack ) we can easily break the concrete floor and tap into the spring . Remember that if we have a real SHTF long crisis that your Hvac wont run. So being underground that far will provide natural cooling .. We realistically plan for no working gas pumps for a generator . No electricity ( possibly for ever ) and no FEMA .
Virginia_Hall@reddit
I think you left out the first item: win the lottery ;-)
Grendle1972@reddit
Make the whole thing 24x32, you will thank me later for the extra 6 ft. Your for print is the same size as my cabin. Make the side walls 12 get high and you can build a rated for to allow storage underneath with hinged panels. The vertical walls can be used as storage as well between the studs and just covered with sheet rock (fireproofing).
iambecomesoil@reddit
I think you need to go back way before the drawing board. Your headspace is all wrong for me. Why tell us how much room and space and thought you've put into firearm rounds when you don't tell us anything about your root cellar, your garden fencing, your meat preservation, etc?
Or is that what the 1 year supplies for necessities are for?
Eat bucket slop, shoot, and reload your days away?
JRHLowdown3@reddit
At least one more 90 degree turn in the entrance. Where is the secondary exit?
10 feet of earth is overkill and a lot of weight for what I'm assuming is a poured concrete or block based shelter?
3 feet of earth gives you a PF of 1,000 If your not in a blast area- in which case MOVE don't build- a PF of 1,000 is more than adequate and 3 foot of earth is a much lighter load than 10 feet. On culvert and tank shelters the earth arching allows this much without any flex in the structure, you can drive backhoes over them...
Advantage of being on the West coast there is you likely won't get as much early fallout as places on the East coast will. You could receive later fallout from China/NK/Russia etc. but later it wouldn't be as bad.
One big living space isn't always the best option. At the very least small partitions for individual bunk areas for individuals and/or families. Looks like your 12x24 in your "main living area", doesn't give a boatload of space, but we are talking fallout shelter not the Ritz Carlton... One division in that room would be possible and likely very useful later. Psychologically having a place to go and "blow off steam", or have sex, just "be alone for a while" etc. is going to be important. Ideally everyone needs a small bit of "personal space" and this helps with sanity.
Where I've seen people mess up with poured concrete shelters- old customer in TX didn't have any building experience but had someone there build him a poured concrete shelter. They made NO appropriations for any ingress into the shelter except ONE door. Later he was scrambling to try to figure out how to get wires in from his seismic intrusion detectors, camera, comm wires, electrical, plumbing and of course septic... No plans were made for water infiltration. I don't GAF if your building in the high desert, PLAN for water to get into your shelter and have several solid plans to get it out- thank me later... Having seen and toured a few "underground aquariums" I can't stress this point enough. And not that long ago here someone posted complaining about some "premier" shelter company they (over)spent $200K with for a culvert shelter and how it now had leaks. I tried to help him with actual ideas that have worked in similar (albeit not getting screwed on price) culvert shelters but the guy was more interested in bitching about the company and thinking that "sueing" them would make something happen.... PLAN for water infiltration and how to deal with it. It's going to happen. This isn't a survivalist secret, anyone that has lived with a basement knows sooner or later you get water in it.
Heavy duty shelves that double as bunks are very helpful. These can be easily made with 4x8 sheet of 3/4 plywood rip to 2x8, then framed out on the perimeter with 2x4s and reinforced every 2 feet. Bunks/shelving units can be made with these and 3 each "legs" - ends and middle to support the shelving/bunks. At the minimum you can hang curtains on these for privacy. Again, not the Ritz Carlton but having some spent "some time" in one or two bunks built like this it's livable. Camping mats fit these nicely.
I do sketches the same way you do, 2' per square and all that, I laughed when I saw your drawing as it looked like something I would have done, LOL.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
PF is actually higher than that.
A halving thickness is 3.6 inches of packed dirt, so 3 feet (36 inches) is 2^(10) = 1,024 protection factor. Obviously we use 1,000 as a convenient short-cut.
But we also have that concrete slab that is 4 inches, and the halving thickness of concrete is 2.4 inches, and 4 / 2.4 = 1.67, so it's actually a protection factor of 2^((10+1.67)) = \~3,260 inside the actual shelter itself.
As planned by OP, the PF would be 2^(((10 * 12) / 3.6) + 1.67) = 34.36 *BILLION*.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
Yes.
It sounds like he is just spitballing. Real world building would definitely make him change some things based on cost, load bearing of 10' of earth, etc. And again no real reason you would likely HAVE to have that much.
3 foot I know I can dig out of in a catastrophic situation. 10 not so much.
Lard523@reddit
Your missing a second exit. i’d add a purpose built bedroom and a more comfortable washroom, and a proper kitchen. the living area would have a table and couch (that can fold out into a bed). Some of my flexible design ideas are marked on the plan.
How many people do you plan to house? it makes a difference if you intend this solely for yourself or plan for a family with kids, or plan to house a dozen people.
Design wise i would add a false floor about a foot deep for storage. I would cover it with 2x2 plywood squares (with a hole drilled or corner cut out to lift them up). the cost of having your ceiling be a foot higher is less than the cost of extra square footage. I’d add rugs over the plywood.
DigitalPrepperJoe@reddit
If you really want to add a challenge to this brainstorming activity, start asking yourself how to make your underground bunker stealthy so less people notice it. It's a tough problem when it comes to heat signatures and air vents...
Shofield41610@reddit
Whats your scenario that you want to protect against? What is the level of security you want to achieve for whom and for how long?
DigitalPrepperJoe@reddit
Guessing here, but it looks like general prep for long-term collapse of modern infrastructure rather than a specific doomsday event. I'd be interested to hear the OP's answer to the questions though.
Either-Sign-9345@reddit
Solid foundation honestly, the NBC filtered HVAC and water storage combo alone puts this ahead of most designs people throw together. A few things I'd think about adding or considering:
Communications. A way to monitor what's happening outside without exposing yourself matters a lot, even just a hand crank shortwave radio or a dedicated HAM setup. Knowing when it's safe to surface is just as important as being able to stay down there.
Air intake redundancy. If your primary filtered intake gets compromised or blocked you want a backup option, even a manual one.
Medical supplies beyond basic first aid. A year in with no outside help means dental issues, infections, or injuries need more than a standard kit can handle.
Sanitation plan. 3000 gallons covers drinking and cooking but waste management in a sealed shelter for extended stays is something a lot of designs underestimate.
Mental health consideration. A year underground with people is genuinely hard. Some kind of entertainment, routine structure, or even just defined personal space goes a long way.
Otherwise the diesel and solar redundancy is smart, and having spare parts for critical systems is something most people completely overlook so good that it's already in there.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
I assumed he meant "a year of supplies" as in just storage area. Highly unlikely he would NEED to stay underground for more than maybe a month. Only his survey meter and measurements would tell him that for sure.
agm115@reddit
Make sure your HVAC is capable of positive pressure, ie just slightly higher pressure than atmosphere.
infospongue@reddit
Depending on where your live, water may be a problem. How do you keep your shelter from flooding?
quietprepper@reddit
You've dedicated 108 square feet to weapons and ammo. You could accomplish the same practical thing with efficient use of space in a 10 square foot closet.
Signal_Team1778@reddit (OP)
True, it would double as a workshop/parts storage.
Jolopy4099@reddit
If its something you would be in for awhile it's important to not forget disposal of poop and piss. It will add up quickly and become unsanitary in there.
Signal_Team1778@reddit (OP)
Septic system attached. First post got messed up before I could put it up. Good catch!
preppers-ModTeam@reddit
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