Lucid Has $1.47 Billion Of Inventory Sitting Unsold, So Its New CEO Hit Pause
Posted by Anchor_Aways@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 441 comments
Posted by Anchor_Aways@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 441 comments
ikilledtupac@reddit
Worst car and worst service experience of my life. Ridiculous on every level.
Averylarrychristmas@reddit
Go on…
ikilledtupac@reddit
Software problems every day. Key fob problems. Laughable QA. They can’t get parts. They get defective parts. Service departments blame each other or the factory. I’ve had this thing 6 months and it’s been in service half the time. It’s a joke. They clearly don’t know what’s wrong with their own cars and maybe fired the people who did.
Seriously. Lucid is an absolute Potemkin city for the PIF. being their customer SUCKS.
DrSpaceman575@reddit
And you have a Maserati? You're just a glutton for punishment damn.
ikilledtupac@reddit
Hey that car has been solid! 5 years now no issues. Great car.
2020-vision-2020@reddit
ghibli?
ikilledtupac@reddit
Granturismo 4.7
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
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MechMeister@reddit
Blink twice if the Trident is with you in the room
ikilledtupac@reddit
👀
knight_prince_ace@reddit
Now that's a brand new sentence
UmaThurmish@reddit
lmao I remember that one top gear episode where Jeremy was driving a maserati and the engine literally exploded parts were hitting cars behind him
fldsmdfrv2@reddit
If you have had for 6 months, lemon it. Check your state laws. Reminds me of POS VAG products.
ikilledtupac@reddit
I am trying to but they fight it
doom_pizza@reddit
Air or gravity?
ikilledtupac@reddit
Air, had a Gravity as a loaner it’s also lots of problems.
doctorcapslock@reddit
my boss has a gravity and he's not really had any issues so far lol
tablepennywad@reddit
Yeah right lol
johnyeah183@reddit
My buddy has an Air Pure. I drove it a few times. The handling and ride quality(nvh) are the only things you can confidently praise about. The rests really doesn’t live up to what’s promised nor it’s price tag.
nucleartime@reddit
The packaging (available space) and interior materials also seemed pretty good when I looked at one in a showroom.
The depreciation is also good for used buyers lol. I've seen Pures go for $35k. It'd be more tempting if the possibility of software gremlins wasn't so high (and the cheaper used ones are definitely more likely to have gremlins).
chargedcapacitor@reddit
That's a shame, because the lucid gravity has some of the best seats I've ever sat in, and the cabin interior is beautiful.
actualtumor@reddit
Had a friend who got hired there out of college last year, he moved to california only to get laid off 4 months in. He declined another job for the role. They fucked him over royally and now he can’t find a job
bdepz@reddit
Ok so that's why a high (but not sapphire) used lucid air is only like $50k. Lmao
ikilledtupac@reddit
Out of warranty they will have no value at all.
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
That's such a shame. I test drove two of them and they're clearly the nicest EVs on the market in terms of driving feel and interior quality that I've experienced. But I haven't driven a Porsche Taycan or Macan EV yet. Teslas still feel bargain basement inside but at least the prices can be decent. Won't support the company regardless. Rivians just aren't nice enough inside to be six figure cars, but the R2 looks very promising.
ikilledtupac@reddit
They’re not tho. Porsche and BMW are superior.
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
The Porsche isn't superior in packaging design but I'm not going to argue with the interior part as I haven't driven them.
ikilledtupac@reddit
I guess I don’t need to store that much stuff in my car
eibon9130@reddit
Glad you're able to end on it handles good! I make the shocks xD
Averylarrychristmas@reddit
Thanks - I appreciate you sharing
oidoglr@reddit
Jason Fenske did a great few videos on his challenges with software issues on his personally owned Lucid on his engineering explained YT
popsicle_of_meat@reddit
He's still hopeful about his, though. He's had good communication with the company about what they're working on. If it happens, then maybe the cars will be good. But if it doesn't happen, well, some of the issues he's had with his are massive turnoffs for a new car.
Time-Maintenance2165@reddit
Good PR communication or even good intentions of an engineering exec can't fix something they've already been trying to fix for years. Either they have a bad software engineering team where its going to take years to develop them and fix that, or they've made poor design decisions in the hardware/architecture which will also take years to fix.
They'll do bandaid fixes on the more minor things, but its so widespread and been so bad for so long its clear they have no timely resolution.
_Unusual_Flatworm_@reddit
Herein lies the issue, they’re only communicating with him because of his status and known audience. If you or I bought one we would be left in the dark to meander and argue with shitty service reps. It breaks my heart as I really wanted one of these to start.
popsicle_of_meat@reddit
I don't disagree. However, it's also a plus that he's bringing more visibility to the issues. But then on the flip side, he probably also has incentive not to go too hard on Lucid, too.
_Unusual_Flatworm_@reddit
This exactly! I do hope they can sort out the software issues and keep staying afloat. I am holding out to get one of the midsized models when they finally get released so long as these issues get resolved.
DinoTh3Dinosaur@reddit
Really appreciate the review brother
Combat_Wombat23@reddit
Your flair really rounds out your write up nicely
Bored__Lord@reddit
The guy doesn’t have a Lucid. He spams literally every thread on the r/Lucid subreddit with a brand new “complaint” every 5 minutes. Seriously, go open any thread, you’ll see him complaining.
He’s an intentional doomer profiteering off of driving the stock down.
cubs223425@reddit
"This person talking about his problems in a subreddit for the product he owns is actually a stock manipulator."
Uhh...OK.
I went and checked the sub because I didn't believe you. There are only 4 threads made today. He commented in one of those threads, and only did it one time.
I checked yesterday's threads too, since the number is so few. He commented in two of the six, each one time. One was just saying "Same," to someone who commented about finding seat positioning to be worse than Tesla. The other was saying "it’s very bad for a car of its price," about the Gravity, which is a pretty common sentiment in this thread and others about the thing.
Really doesn't sound like a spammer.
Bored__Lord@reddit
Sorry it's harder to prove because he deliberately hides comments, but if you spend any time in the subreddit, it's pretty obvious. You can also see he's a "Top 1% commenter" any time you see his name on that sub.
I'm not saying there aren't legitimate complaints people have; just that you won't find them from that particular user.
Sindica69@reddit
This is the opposite of my experience, but I have an Air. I’ve heard bad things about the Gravity.
bobj33@reddit
How big of a city do you live in and how far away is the service center?
I live in a metro area with 2.5 million people and the closest Lucid studio / mobile service hub are 3 hours west or 3 hours north.
Rivian has a location 20 minutes from my house.
BMW, Toyota, and all the other major car dealers have 2 to 4 locations in my area.
ikilledtupac@reddit
5 hours or so, even if it was down the street, their service is garbage.
cubs223425@reddit
Modern software design in a nutshell. The customers are the quality assurance team, and they charge you to be their testers by calling it "early access." It sucks when it's a $30 video game, and it's even worse when it's a 5- or 6-figure vehicle that can kill you and others if it fails.
90Carat@reddit
There are a couple of YouTube channels having the same issues.
ikilledtupac@reddit
Yeah I’ve talked to the Engineeing Explained guy he went through same crap
Hilariously, someone got a pick of Timothee Chalamets Lucid getting towed from his house to service 🤣
f8Negative@reddit
No shit. The companies name is Lucid. It clearly is some alturistic bullshit so that you realize they are anything but lucid.
HawtGarbage918@reddit
Lucid honestly should have sold themselves off to a bigger OEM once the Air proved what they were capable of. Or even merged with somebody.
yobo9193@reddit
Nobody would buy them; the Saudis only invested in them because they have no issues with burning incredible amounts of cash to diversify their economy, even if most of those investments end up being duds (see: LIV golf)
cubs223425@reddit
Not the best thing to cite as a possible outcome LOL.
HoldingForGenova@reddit
I think that was their point, given that the immediate preceding statement is "even if most of those investments end up being duds"
AroundYoLip@reddit
Glad to see at least one other person in these comments has some semblance of reading comprehension.
knight_prince_ace@reddit
Who would buy them though?
ExtruDR@reddit
Eventually some major manufacturer will get nervous enough and be behind the ball enough to need to "catch up" in some way.
Personally, I don't think that it would be out of the question for a big Japanese company (there are only really two) - that have been needlessly sitting on their hands on EVs to pick Lucid up (at a reasonable valuation) and use that as their "cheat code" to onboard EVs fast. Both Honda and Toyota have a problem in that they only have a couple of major brands in the US, and neither of them really compete with the upper-mid luxury brands (like the nicer German brands... Like higher end Benz/BMW going into Porsche, especially not Acura). Having "Lucid" as a luxury EV that goes against the mostly EV-bound Porsche makes sense to me.
Having said that, I think that even Mazda (who definitely does not have the money), could use their version of "Lexus" and could find it in Lucid. Although I do think that Mazda is more "German" minded in regard to branding and likes the idea of having every level of product under their core brand.
Even a Chinese company could "adopt" the Lucid brand to have a "domestic" brand to get into the US market... but I would think that they could buy any of several Western brands that are sucking wind to achieve this with.
No-Procedure1077@reddit
At this point no one. The only thing other OEMs want is their motors.
stigansky@reddit
I’d consider a well-equipped Gravity for $70k, not $110k+.
rmkensington@reddit
These stupid car companies just can't figure out that going after the most wealthy buyers isnt a lasting strategy.
dachloe@reddit
It is a good strategy when the wealthy are the only ones who consistently have money to buy cars
piddydb@reddit
Because they keep pricing them so high! Make a car starting sub $40k and it will sell. Don’t and it won’t.
lee1026@reddit
They keep killing off those cars for failing to sell too.
Sesemebun@reddit
This sub constantly says this shit as if it is literally impossible for companies to sell a new car for under $50k
humanredditor45@reddit
Meanwhile, in Asia, new cars can be had for around $10k. Make no mistake, it’s a $10k car, but it’s a perfectly fine A-to-B people mover and that’s all most people want.
FireWrath9@reddit
Yeah, and $10k is like, annual wage there lol. Maybe if we paid our workers (factory, mine, raw material, etc.) $1.50 an hour we could have cheaper cars too.
lee1026@reddit
$10k on any used dealer lot will also get you a perfectly fine A-to-B people mover.
That's the problem you are fighting against. My old 2005 Corolla is still in use as a perfectly fine A-to-B people mover today, somewhere in the family as a hand-me-down.
How is any new car supposed to compete in the cheap segments in face of that?
RIF_Internet_Goon@reddit
I got a 2005 Sienna as a gift and its just turned 220k miles best damn mini van ever!.... I still have my college car a 2002 GS300 ran like a top for 5 years driving over 120 miles daily with no problems! It also helps doing your own basic maintenance.
humanredditor45@reddit
For one, cheaper new cars would drive down used car prices because why buy used if you could afford new? People love new toys.
For two, the problem with new cheap cars in America has nothing to do with the used market. Please show us 1 new small sedan or coupe or hatchback made by any of the big 3 car makers? You can’t, because they flat out stopped selling them here to push their higher profit margin items: SUV’s. Make them the size they were in the 90’s and call them compacts or CUV’s!
Why don’t the car manufacturers do that all over the world? Because other countries aren’t as dumb as Americans and don’t believe in the need for a baby tank to get groceries or take little Aschleeighand Braydin to school.
lee1026@reddit
The new cars don't sell. A lot of companies have made that mistake, and they get rudely dismissed from the market. The Mirage is the most recent example. You make a new car, it is a worse value than the used cars at the same price point, and people don't buy it.
Margins are not something handed down from god. There are two numbers at play - how much it cost the car maker to build something, and how much buyers are willing to pay. Higher margin features are where the buyer values a feature by far more than the cost to the automaker. There is no shame from anyone when automakers rush to supply that demand.
And for that matter, plenty of cheap sedans on the used market, so any attempt at making one would go straight into that buzzsaw.
There also isn't the huge overhang over 2nd hand cars in most of the world, nor a massive population at the top that are willing to buy much more expensive cars, and have those cars depreciate to become tomorrow's 2nd hand cars.
OptimalFunction@reddit
A lot of Americans do not want a “fine A to B people mover”. Americans legit will go broke because of the hard-on for pickup trucks and SUVs. One of the best selling vehicles is the F150.
If the options were a $10k new sedan with leather seats, heated/cooled seats, 360 camera view, 26 speaker stereo, and a zero to 60 in 1.99 seconds and a $75k F150 with manual seats and crank windows… the F150 is out selling the sedan 9 to 1.
Americans absolutely hate “people mover” sedans.
rsta223@reddit
Bull. Shit.
Unkn0wnTh2nd3r@reddit
which is bizarre because its not true , my dad's new 2026 CR-V sport hybrid with basically nearly full packaged out, was like $42-48k give or take (which yes, is near $50k but its still under it and also lots of extra shit on it)
Sesemebun@reddit
My car (23) was $21k otd
Nightmare_Ives@reddit
Because also you can't rebadge a cheaply made car and price it base at $35k and also expect a windfall.
faustianBM@reddit
Is this not (part of) Kia's business model?
Tuxedo_Muffin@reddit
Hyundai/Kia started by making cheap knock-offs of other cars. Now they have their own "cheap" cars (that are sometimes really good to boot).
That being said, they also discontinued the Accent which was their answer at a compact economy car.
eh_itzvictor@reddit
The Accent and its ugly replacement, the Venue are thankfully some very durable, and lasting little cars. I have a feeling they are about to axe the venue though..
mattmaster68@reddit
Make new cars $19k and watch them fly off the lots!
007meow@reddit
Reddit loves to think it knows more than actual market strategists.
The Kia Stinger was basically everything this sub cries for.
And look at what happened there.
There are reasons at OEMs are working at the top of the price bracket - some of those reasons include a K shaped economy dictating who is buying cars and that the higher end bracket leads to more of a profit margin that helps subsidize the R&D, especially for new brands like Lucid.
TheRealAbiril@reddit
K shaped economy is also dead with the mass layoffs of people in tech, who represent like 50% of the top 10% of household earners. Since 2022, there has been a 5-20% reduction ANNUALLY in the size of the workforce in the tech industry. That's almost a reduction to 50% for the largest high earning professional cohort in the economy.
The "K" is increasingly about currently held wealth and a lot less about income, because soon enough all high income earners are losing their jobs to AI. The "optimistic" projection put the number at 30% by 2030 of white collar jobs lost, and the pessimistic numbers put it at 50%.
These are economy destroying results, because the money stops churning and the GDP will collapse. Frankly all AI usage needs to be taxed at 200% to replace the income tax lost and the lower money multiplier effect of government spending that will have to happen.
WigglingWeiner99@reddit
I was looking for guys like you in the Ford thread! It's always funny how absent you guys are when "actual market strategists" objectively lose the company billions in sales, but you're sure to show up to dunk on "Redditors" in these threads where it isn't quite as obvious that the "professionals" are driving their companies into the ground.
007meow@reddit
Sure, they're not perfect and market trends and demands shift. They certainly won't always be right
But it's silly to think that Redditors would be better than actual trained industry professionals with access to mountains of data.
xrailgun@reddit
It sillier to think that "reddit" is just one dumb guy talking to himself, and cannot possibly contain actual, more competent professional strategists.
goat-of-mendes@reddit
I was interested in the Kia Stinger until I tried to test drive one. Every dealer within 100 miles wanted a non-refundable deposit just to drive it. The lowest was $500. I passed on the Civic Type R and Focus RS for similar reasons.
bobj33@reddit
I went to the Kia dealer about 6 years ago and the Stinger was marked up about $9,000 over MSRP and the guy said he needed to do a credit check on me before I could test drive it. I walked right out.
jacob6875@reddit
Thats why I didn't buy a Civic Si back in the 2010s. They had it in the show room and wouldn't let me test drive it. Meanwhile Mazda just let me have the keys to an RX-8 to test drive.
pedroelbee@reddit
I bet you wished you had bought the Civic though.
AnimageCGF@reddit
Ha. Our honda dealer had a Type R sitting in the show room. I was buying my vehicle and asked if I could test drive it. Like they already knew they were getting my money that day, told me "oh that's sold just awaiting pick up"
Came back 6 months later for my free oil change at 5k - still sitting there. Asked and was told the same thing again. Like it was not there to be sold at all it seems like. It was gone at the 1 year mark though, so maybe they got tired of hearing about it.
StandupJetskier@reddit
This is a highly self selected set. We are the guys who have an outsized opinion (I bought a Stinger, except it was the C43 the Stinger was a copy of) BUT are the biggest PIA at the dealer because we don't want a grey LX version, we want the GT version in a particular color of which there are 4 on the East Coast AND we want to pay for a discount on the LX as price.....
pdp10@reddit
What do you think that buyers chose instead of the Kia Stinger?
piddydb@reddit
The Kia Stinger was consistently sold out and had little inventory available. It was successful. It was only cancelled because Kia thought they could consolidate Stinger buyers into EV6 GT buyers. Had little to do with actual Stinger sales.
And if these OEMs are so smart to be prioritizing the top bracket, WHY DO THEY HAVE $1.47 BILLION OF INVENTORY SITTING UNSOLD? Sometimes Redditors make unsound advice but car executives make unsound decisions themselves. They’re not immune to bad decisions just because they’re in positions of power.
enaK66@reddit
Underlined and bolded. I'd argue most of them are stupid as fuck. Having a fancy degree doesn't make you smart and making a bunch of money doesn't make you smart. They're shortsighted greedy morons chasing the easiest dollar: rich people with gobs of disposable income.
gt4rs@reddit
we talking about the same Kia Stinger that Doug DeMuro had, the one where he got a chunk off sticker because it sat on the lot for so long without being bought?
piddydb@reddit
Yeah but that was earlier in its lifecycle when they weren’t well known. By the time they were talking about discontinuing it, I was trying to look them up to do the same thing and they were just all being bought up immediately. The only ones available were priced at MSRP. It took some time but it had become a success by the time of its discontinuation.
BraveFencerMusashi@reddit
Its also a Kia
Gan-san@reddit
Because then this sub will say "buy a used x instead" luxury high end is where the profit margins are.
Kev-Series@reddit
If the market wanted affordable cars, they'd stop demanding a portable living room with fighter jet radar, sensors, cameras, etc on them.
But instead in the interest of comfort and safety, we demand a vehicle provide us with netflix on the dash and ever headrest, 87 different cameras, sensors, radar and now AI to drive the car for us so we can focus on more important things like being drunk or stoned and focused on our phones instead of driving.
Delivering a 20k EV or ICE vehicle that lasts for years is well with in the realm of possible, but the average consumer refuses to buy one because of the aforementioned reason.
Public_Fucking_Media@reddit
idk man I'd rather most people who wanna get drunk and drive have a car that drives them?
lee1026@reddit
That's not why nobody makes a 20k car.
You can buy a certain quality of car at 20k on the used market. Every car maker will go "can we do better than that and still hit the 20k price point", and go "no, no we can't".
53bvo@reddit
For some reason this not really the case in Europe where Dacia still sells the bare bones Sandero, the most basic version doesn't even have an infotainment screen and costs €18k. But the electric spring is even cheaper for €17k (does have carplay).
Plenty of people prefer to buy this car new compared to an used car for €20k. Guess there are more people that don't car about cars or the status it brings but do want a new car to avoid any issues of an second hand car.
lee1026@reddit
I am just guessing in the dark here, but does the 2nd car for $20k market look like what it does in the states?
You can get pretty old camry and still have something nicer than the Sandero, and personally, my money would be on the camry for reliability.
53bvo@reddit
Camries are very rare but for 20k you can get a Ford Mondeo (Fusion in the US I think), Toyota Corolla, Mazda 3 or CX-3 (all around 2020). Much nicer cars than the Dacia. But the Dacia comes with 7 years of warranty and proven (old) Renault tech so from a reliability point of view it is probably better than the alternatives if you want to keep the car for a while.
porcomaster@reddit
i mean equinox EV, comes with all that, and it's at msrp at 35k, and with manufacturer discount you can find brand new down to 23k.
if Chevrolet can do it. why can not other manufacturers also do it ?
pdp10@reddit
Because manufacturers would prefer not to sell at a loss, that's why.
But it's not just up to manufacturers. There are regulators, dealers, and buyers, to placate.
porcomaster@reddit
even without the chevrolet discount, they are still releasing a car under 40k.
with a big screen android, sensors, confortable , safe with plenty of radars and gimicks.
that is the sweetspot.
surely they are losing, money but everyone is,
until they can create a reliable chain of production.
but there is no need to consumers to lower their standards, manufacturers need to meet in the midway.
maybe not giving fully autonomous, but a big screen is almost standard at this point, not that i like myself, but that is the standard.
and it's not a big expense vs the smaller screen in a bulk production way. same software, same everything, just a bigger screen.
it might cost then an extra 30-60 dollars. even with a car costing less than 40k, that is definitely doable.
Alternative_Ear5542@reddit
How much of this is the government legislating stuff like Automatic Emergency Braking and such?
I'm asking genuinely. I love my Bronco cause it's got 0 options, but it annoys me that it still has that, and thus a camera that requires my windshield to cost way more than it did on my last car.
sunny_storm__@reddit
There is a fair argument to be made that the market never requested all the extras that go into cars in today's market. All these sensors, cameras and screens get put in, and I have no choice but to pay for it. All I want is CarPlay and I'd be happy with it, but you cant just order a bare bones model from manufacturers anymore.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
The problem is everyone has a different "All I want is blank." Yours is carplay. Someone else wants heated seats, someone else a heated steering wheel, etc. After a while, you no longer have a cheap vehicle.
Cheap vehicles did exist. They didn't get canceled because they were flying off lots.
LogicWavelength@reddit
Everyone here is missing the truth.
Cheap cars don't exist for two reasons: inflation and capitalism.
To keep it basic: People that want/need cheap cars simply can't afford new cars anymore. This is because inflation has made it so that everything else has gotten so expensive - food, housing, etc. Buying a new car - even one at $30k - just isn't something a growing group of people can swing.
The other reason, capitalism, takes over a few different duties. People can barely afford stuff, so to them spending multiple tens of thousands on a car means that it'd better have some features. Also, things like FOMO culture exist now. Lastly, capitalism also means that companies changed how their make and sell things. In the world of dropshipping basic items, why would a car company build thousands of base models to just sit on lots? People are coming in to look at the middle/upper trims (FOMO) and instead of stepping down to what they actually can afford, they just get the higher trim for 96mo financing.
pdp10@reddit
How many cheap vehicles were on lots in the first place? Anecdotally, I'd say, as few as dealers could allow.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
How many consecutive years have the Civic, Corolla, Accord, and Camry been among the top 10 best selling vehicles?
FSCK_Fascists@reddit
Closer to say a competitor makes one of these luxury options standard equipment, and thats popular. so the rest follow suit, and add other features.
then you get where we are today. I like the Hilux Champ. A basic, simple, efficient small work truck. I can't get one in the US. I bought a used tacoma around the same price range to fill my need. Its way more than I need.
FullofLovingSpite@reddit
That's why they have different trim levels. Not all models have heated seats, only the ones with that option do.
If a person only wants to connect their phone (I would assume this is common for all), have power windows/doors, and a/c that should be a basic trim. But the manufacturers have decided that their r&d spending needs to be justified, so too many models start with too much already. Also, the safety stuff is mainly legal requirements, so nothing we can do about that.
FSUfan35@reddit
Or they have a base model and just don't produce and ship any
SyntheticOne@reddit
This.
We don't use Apple Carplay or Android Auto or Steinway Pianoplay.
We do use heated and ventilated seats, heated steering wheel, blind spot, emergency braking, pedestrian detect, reverse camera, highway self drive... The safety features are a must.
Brifryguy671@reddit
Valid point, however backup cameras are now mandated to be in new vehicles so this one isn’t exactly a luxury
FSCK_Fascists@reddit
the last bare bones car I got was a 2014, and I had to take a couple of "options" to get rid of stupid shit. Example: opted for a CD player, because the only radio they had with that was a knob operated basic one- and that got rid of linked infotainment screens as well. End result- simple radio with AUX input, analog dash and climate controls.
was not an option a year later.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
People do not want “bare-bones” models, or they’d still be sold
Kev-Series@reddit
My counter argument would be that most of the public voted for politicians and policies that made these safety features a requirement.
Nodnarb_Jesus@reddit
I reference Slate trucks for this reason.
pdp10@reddit
You're probably underestimating the influence that regulators and dealers have on what's available on the lot. In the U.S., nobody can legally sell you a new car without a back-up camera, stability control, and soon, automatic braking and sobriety assurance.
piddydb@reddit
That’s why I said sub 40 instead of sub 30. The market definitely demands some affordability, but considerably less than what could be achieved.
Signal_Ball4634@reddit
Agree I think the 30-45K space is more than reasonable to have both reasonable amounts of tech and be relatively affordable by modern standards. Proof is in the Camry/RAV4 and their equivalents selling massively in that price range.
motorcitydevil@reddit
Slate will deliver an EV for around 20k. Let's see how many they sell.
Bassracerx@reddit
But my shareholders!
cuddlepwince@reddit
Tesla did that with the 3 and Y and now that's 99% of their sales
Calm_Project723@reddit
There is no profit in an electric car with battery size for long range at sub $40k. Range expectations continue to increase and battery tech, while better/cheaper has not kept up. The $7500 helped too.
jacob6875@reddit
That's a silly argument when Tesla has multiple vehicles on sale right now for under 40k and they make a profit on them.
The Model 3 is 37k and the Model Y is just under 40k. Both with 321mi of range.
Calm_Project723@reddit
Tesla sold 106 cars for every lucid. I assume they have more purchasing power and can accept lower profit per vehicle.
jacob6875@reddit
Tesla started the same way Lucid did with an expensive Sedan and SUV. Lucid just doesn’t seem interested in lower cost options like Tesla did.
Calm_Project723@reddit
Yes, a few differences:
Tesla was first with an electric car. No competition
Executive sedans sold much better in 2012 than now. Notice how they killed the model s, Audi is killing the a7, Lexus killing the ls?
Tesla had the huge advantage of buying the nummi plant, valued at $1b, for $42m. But also Toyota made a $50m investment at the same time, making the factory free.
piddydb@reddit
Tesla seems to make it work. It definitely seems achievable with the right investment, they’re just not willing to pony up. Regardless, they’re not even close to sub $40k. If they were at $50k and we were having this conversation, I’d be willing to say “ok, fair enough”, but they’re not even sub $70k. They gotta do more work on making these cars more affordable if they’re actually wanting to sell them.
reversethrust@reddit
You need the high margins to keep your company afloat until you can have the rep to sell low margin cars.
piddydb@reddit
You’ll never get the rep to sell low margin cars if you never sell low margin cars though. This is supposed to be why you get big cash infusions from investors to carry you until you’re profitable, but you gotta move into the standard price market to be able to do that.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
You know that’s not really how it works, right?
piddydb@reddit
It is though. Car companies say “well, we don’t want to sell to the poors, so let’s prioritize the $80k price point instead.” Then most people can’t afford cars. They can make them cheaper, look at China’s EVs, they just ultimately don’t want to.
fastbeemer@reddit
Go drive through a low-income apartment complex and you'll be amazed at how many extremely expensive cars are parked in there. Many single individuals choose expensive cars and cheap living conditions. $100k lifted trucks, $70k Lexus RC-F's.
Most of reddit thinks they understand reality because they base their opinions on their personal experiences and decision making. In the real world it's not like that. What you are saying is untrue in reality. Many 20-somethings buy absurdly expensive cars.
Skensis@reddit
Eh, I've done similar.
When renting cost me 2500/month, and buying a 1bdrm would cost me 800k.... Well car it is!
lc_barcode@reddit
Where the fuck are you buying that a 1br costs 800k to buy?!
IguassuIronman@reddit
$800k would be a reasonable 2BR condo outside of Boston
Word_Underscore@reddit
800k gets you Arkansas. All of it.
m1a2c2kali@reddit
NYC area is also similar.
Soporific88@reddit
not really, NYC is bigger than just Manhattan
m1a2c2kali@reddit
You can def find those prices in at least 4/5 boroughs
Clip_Clippington@reddit
FWIW, the sweet spot tends to be the $200K-$350K co-ops in Eastern Queens. Some hope of parking, potential to buy an garage, cheaper insurance compared to everywhere else in the city, but the commute is meh at best. Awful if you're 25, passable if you're 35, perfect if you're a boring local and 45.
Skensis@reddit
California bay area!
lc_barcode@reddit
800k would get you a pretty big home a couple hours north east of the bay area
Skensis@reddit
And then I wouldn't be in the bay area.
bikedork5000@reddit
On the other hand, there are plenty of young dudes out there who would gladly live in a cardboard box if it meant they could buy their dream car.
Terrh@reddit
Can sleep in your car, can't race your house.
Suck_My_Thick@reddit
You're talking out your ass. Show me a parking lot of expensive cars in a low income neighborhood.
Mikeg216@reddit
Problem is you don't get wealthy by buying depreciating assets. They lease it... And use it as a write-off. I know at one point with the farm vehicle tax deduction you could write off 70% of your purchase in the first year if it weighed over a certain amount or had a specific gross vehicle weight rating.
P38ARR@reddit
Wealthy people lease them, boy buy them. Owning them is a losers game
gravis1982@reddit
The Toyota RAV4 says hello
Suck_My_Thick@reddit
Not all wealthy people are stupid enough to spend 6 figures on a car. Has nothing to do with afford.
yourname92@reddit
Yea but the lucid just doesn’t give the car person who wants to spend the money the feeling of being a real car.
UmaThurmish@reddit
true, but that wont work for a new car company, the wealthy want to show off. they will buy a status well known luxury car
BigJellyfish1906@reddit
No, because eventually the wealthy just... have their cars and aren't interested in a new one. The wealthy market is too small. That's why they were dumb to fixate on it.
dancing__narwhal@reddit
It’s not a desirable product for the wealthy. They don’t care about saving money on gas or lower maintenance costs of EVs. They care about image and desirability. I live in a HCOL area near a lot of very wealthy folks. I see tons of Mercs, BMWs, Porsches, and Range Rovers. I rarely see any Lucids.
FR_Van_Guy@reddit
Works for the 911, why not us
Puppysmasher@reddit
Porsche lost 90% profit and is a financial disaster right now so no it doesn’t work?
g-4-ces@reddit
This is the narrative for the financial illiterate. They took a write down on past capitalized r&d. Yeah it’s spent $$ but every equity or financial analyst removes these one time items and sees they are absolutely not struggling.
nucleartime@reddit
I mean they are struggling, but it's more of a strategic struggle over electrification and China than short term monetary issues.
Puppysmasher@reddit
Slump in sales and divestment from Bugatti but sure, nothing wrong with the rest of their product line up or incoming tariffs.
m1a2c2kali@reddit
The other side of the coin is that sometimes perception is/beats reality and the ceo has to contend with that as well
FR_Van_Guy@reddit
If you look at the numbers. The 911, not the entire Porsche portfolio, is doing exceptionally well. The more expensive cars (turbo s, gt3, gt3 rs and special editions) are sold out and have wait lists in most markets.
pdp10@reddit
During the lifetime of the 911, Porsche has also had the 912, the 924, the 914, the 928, the Boxster, and eventually the Cayenne. Note that only one of those cost more than the 911.
Puppysmasher@reddit
Because if you are a manufacturer the size of Porsche or these other brands, a hot selling model 911 isn’t enough. The original point was everything in the portfolio going up in price to target the wealthy buyers.
bc10551@reddit
That's because they threw real hard on evs lol
EfficientTourist7480@reddit
Works for Ferrari then
Puppysmasher@reddit
If Porsche wants to downsize as a brand and only sell 5% of what they currently make sure.
TextureComics@reddit
Because Lucids are not 911s. There's not even a single Lucid that's close in size.
MikeofLA@reddit
It’s actually not. Porsche saw a 95% drop in profits year over year.
Captain_Mazhar@reddit
Cash or non-cash profit?
A write down of real or tangible property valuation is recorded as an expense on the income statement, affecting net profit, even though net cash flows are still positive.
Puppysmasher@reddit
That just means they kicked the can on their expenses until this year to make previous years look better because there was an expected value on their spent investment, the money was still spent.
MikeofLA@reddit
Key Details on the Profit Collapse:
The company is now restructuring and focusing on high-margin, traditional, and hybrid models to stabilize its financial position
start3ch@reddit
The margins on high end cars are insane though. It doesn’t cost that much more to produce one, you just have to convince the customers it’s luxurious enough to be worth the price.
ChapekElders@reddit
It’s working for Porsche. Trying to make money off people who have lots of money is a good strategy.
teamdragonite@reddit
guess some people are to stupid to realize, you have to either sell a small quantity of high margin cars or you sell a high quantity of low margin cars. So thats either the tesla 3 or Y
aamgdp@reddit
Consider that the goal of a company is to have the highest profits for a given time period, not last indefinitely. Cars with higher margins are much better for achieving that. Can't say if lucid is succeeding at that though...
doubletwist@reddit
It's a fine strategy for getting started. The Air was quite the success given it's price bracket and small Luxury Sedan market.
But they also know they can't stay there, which is why the next model(s) are mid-sized and targeting the $50k starting price range, which is decent for a good luxury vehicle.
Where they missed was not going straight from the Air to a more reasonably priced model before going for the Gravity.
Less-Fondant-3054@reddit
It worked for Tesla.
The problem is that that strategy really only works once per market. And Tesla took the one time for BEVs.
Euler007@reddit
They're all chasing the wrong rabbit. Polestar started at a great price proposition in Canada with the 2 before tariffs. The salesman was super happy to tell me they were going after the Porsche market with the next cars. I told him I want more car for the money, not show off that I can spend money on a car.
strongmanass@reddit
Porsche was always Polestar's benchmark. They were very transparent about it from the beginning. Ingenlath referenced them in several interviews. The P2 was only meant to capture market share and get the name out. To your point, theyre now realizing that once you go down to that segment it's very hard to sell cars at 2.5 times the price.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Chasing Porsche is delusion, they don’t have same level prestige with Porsche.
strongmanass@reddit
Agreed. It was also a plan for a reality that never happened. When they made the plan everyone loved the contemporary Scandi design and EVs were still the cool, modern choice in certain circles. Then the outlook for 6 figure EVs changed.
pdp10@reddit
A friend of mine expressed years ago that Tesla was a very smart company, for targetting the higher end of the market like they did. Most of the EV startups in the West had already come to the same conclusion.
That way presents obvious limits to growth. If it didn't, mainstream manufacturers would be discontinuing their inexpensive cars, and dealers would refuse to stock low-option vehicles. Wait a minute....
Baby-girl-54321@reddit
Luxury EV market is tough right now, great cars, but not enough people ready to pay that price.
KidRed@reddit
Only 1% of the population.
EfficientTourist7480@reddit
Ferrari - “hold my cannoli”
NWbySW@reddit
"Hey! Americans have less and less buying power everyday, want to release a premium luxury car brand?"
What happened to companies, not just cars, entering markets by first selling cheap, affordable products to get market penatration?
Kia/Hyundai did it.
Do these places see Tesla and think that can be them too?
ikilledtupac@reddit
And the “well equipped” is a joke. The HUD is useless and mostly defective, the RWD steering is only 2 degrees. The ambient lighting is laughable. Every feature feels like “minimum viable prosduct”
astropiedonuts@reddit
It's worse than what you're saying: some basic features are below MVP. I have a gravity - the *KEYS* don't work around 10% of the time. I get in the car and it's a dice roll whether I get to drive or not, or i have to reboot the car or *restart the keyfob*. They managed to make a software experience so shit that I literally cannot drive the car sometimes so I have to be 10 minutes early leaving the house to make anything on time. Worst car I've ever owned and I've had 20+.
intertubeluber@reddit
wat
jameson71@reddit
Ever wondered why airplanes still use tech from the 70s?
Because it works.
TextureComics@reddit
Modern tech is supposed to be more reliable. It's not modernity's fault these companies have godawful quality control.
UmaThurmish@reddit
it is when you don't add complexity for no reason
jameson71@reddit
No, but it is the natural result of abstractions built on abstractions built on abstractions built on abstractions for the last 40 years.
pdp10@reddit
Road cars are literally not allowed to use half-century old technology or designs. Airplanes are largely required to do so, most especially General Aviation. That's why they use leaded gasoline and real Halon fire extinguishers.
Pickups and SUVs have historically been allowed to use older technology a lot of the time, and still do when it comes to full frames and bad fuel economy.
jameson71@reddit
No laws on what CPU or software the cars needs to run.
PumpkinNo4869@reddit
I don't like this trend where cars are so integrated with themselves that it seems a random blip in something just makes everything shit themselves. I've had it happen once in my car where the infotainment clearly crashed and rebooted but then it recovered and picked up where it left off - the actual driving functions/digital display dials were unaffected, just my music took a dump for a bit while leaving a parking lot which is what made me glance down to begin with. I am wondering if trying to throw this all in one 'software pipeline' is making some new EVs have all these issues.
TextureComics@reddit
Sounds like you gotta sell it for an actually competent EV
ikilledtupac@reddit
Yup!
cubs223425@reddit
I'd rather eat broken glass than have to live with this.
jameson71@reddit
Reading this makes me think my next car may be a ‘57 Chevy or something like that.
Yourprobablyaclown69@reddit
Yeah it’s all pricing. I would have bought an air touring if it was priced more reasonable
Sindica69@reddit
Buy used
Yourprobablyaclown69@reddit
That an option now but wasn’t at the time since they had just come out. Bought something and don’t need a car for a while
Sindica69@reddit
Fair
MorrisseysRubiksCube@reddit
Same. I like the vehicle, but I will not pay what they're asking. Neither will a lot of people apprently.
xrelaht@reddit
I’m not interested in an SUV, but the Air would be interesting if there weren’t so many other options at that price point.
executingsalesdaily@reddit
Triple the price of a Chinese equivalent.
PyrexPicasso85@reddit
So, Zeekr 9x Ultra instead of the Gravity?
cirebeye@reddit
$70k is probably what it should realistically cost if prices weren't so insane right now.
JuliusCeaserBoneHead@reddit
It’s too expensive and riddled with software issues
bidextralhammer@reddit
I bought some Lucid stock. Not much, but I wanted to track it. The stock is down 97%. I like EVs and have had Teslas. I was considering a Lucid or a Rivian, but I am not spending this much for a car that might not exist in a few years.
Alpine_Exchange_36@reddit
Little funny that Tesla apparently makes a better car rim Lucid especially after all the ~~propaganda~~ marketing they pushed out
canikony@reddit
People hate Tesla because of Elon. The Model 3/Y are both really good cars for daily drivers.
TextureComics@reddit
There's many other reasons. Have you heard of the cybertruck?
Also, a lot of anti-tesla folks around 2023-2024 probably didn't have any strong opinions on Elon.
Bensemus@reddit
So a single bad vehicle and the company deserves to die?
cuteman@reddit
You hate Tesla because of the cyber truck?
canikony@reddit
So you’re saying you hate Tesla because of one model while the other two are solid?
UmaThurmish@reddit
Teslas are criminally uncomfortable to sit in. i cant speak for lucid, never been in 1. but i have no clue what people are seeing in teslas, they are uncomfortable as fuck
canikony@reddit
Well comfort is definitely subjective but I found the models I have had/have are plenty comfortable for commuting purposes. Roadtrips were fine as well.
dancing__narwhal@reddit
People were decrying the death of Tesla 10 years ago long before Elon when crazy. Lucid was one of many upstarts that were espoused as “Tesla killers”.
Like em or hate em, you have to admit it’s impressive the way Tesla completely took over and continues to lead the EV market.
ExtruDR@reddit
Tesla actually worked on price and seems to be making cars competitive with the typical Camry/Accord/CRV or whatever buyer.
Chinese companies could absolutely do the same or better if they were allowed to compete in the US.
racefever@reddit
Only because Chinese companies are not allowed.
assblast420@reddit
Chinese companies do compete in europe and Tesla is still arguably producing better cars for the price.
Skensis@reddit
Tesla is also has like the third best selling EV model in China by sales numbers, so they are doing fine even there.
zeekayz@reddit
Both make bad cars. There's a big difference in paying $40K for a bad car vs $90K.
K_R_A_K_E_N_540@reddit
Bad car in what way ? Tesla sells more cars worldwide than BMW or Audi. By now people would've stopped buying them if they were so bad
JK_Chan@reddit
Meh lots of people buy cheap shit multiple times instead of buy good once. Not saying that teslas are bad, well they kinda are but not the point. The point is that just because people buy more of it doesn't mean it's goof
K_R_A_K_E_N_540@reddit
What if it's the most sold car of any kind on earth 3 years in a row ?
JK_Chan@reddit
You're just ignoring what I said aren't you? Many people buying a thing is not necessarily indicative of its quality. Yes it sold well, meaning that it has good marketing, people know about it, and it's cheap and good enough that people go for it. There could always be a car that's better and cheaper but marketed less well so less people buy it. Motorolla made a great phone that's just as good as or better than the iphone and samsung equivalents for cheaper, but ask anyone and they would probably tell you they didn't even know motorolla made smartphones. Guess what the most sold phone is? Definitely not the motorolla that's what I can tell you
seansafc89@reddit
BMW sells more cars worldwide per year than Tesla, and has done for the last 5 years (at least). Audi figures are wrapped up in Volkswagen Group and I’m too lazy to dig further, but the likes of Geely and Changan outsell Tesla too so not sure sales alone can be used as a metric of whether a car is good or bad!
supreet908@reddit
They don't make a better car, they make a cheaper one. The only Teslas on the road these days are 3 or Y. Tesla's equivalents to the Air and the Gravity are both on life support.
pricklypearbush@reddit
I have been a passenger in various 3/Y cars and they feel so cheap inside. Amazing that people buy them thinking it’s a luxury car.
PristineReputation@reddit
Imo part of luxury is that things work and work well. So I guess in that sense I would say a Model 3 is more luxurious than a Lucid, or a lot other "luxury" cars.
HighHokie@reddit
I'd contend the 3/y are better cars simply because they actually work reliably relative to the horror stories of lucid.
MightBeJerryWest@reddit
Life support? They're done selling the S and X now.
doom_pizza@reddit
*than
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
I can't say better or worse but a Lucid is definitely a much nicer car than a Tesla.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Model S/X is discontinued, they’re really no way to take Lucid sales anymore.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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13NeverEnough@reddit
News at 11, all new car pricing is out of control. Also, water is wet
timberdoodle3000@reddit
I could offer the trade in value of my car which is like 9k
Oldnbold22@reddit
It's quicker than a Lamborghini. Why won't you buy?
Oldnbold22@reddit
They cost twice as much as they should, have half the build quality they should, and people are making half the money they should. Something's got to give.
StinkySoggyUnderwear@reddit
The market is becoming saturated with expensive luxury and sports cars.
I get it’s a pretty big market, but is it that big?
Terrible_Shelter_345@reddit
I genuinely don’t understand the sheer amount of $80,000+ cars I see in parking lots, at school pickups, etc
Like what on earth is going on. How can people afford student loans, mortgage/rent, a big wedding, kids, and then a near six figure depreciating asset on top of that???
bullitt-rider@reddit
They don't afford it. It's finance sold on a 'you can afford the monthly payments'
I almost fell for it then took a step back and though wtf am I doing spending 45k I don't have on a car so I can drive to work and work to pay back the car I got to drive to work in (mainly)
Binned it all off. Got a beater, invested the 30k I had and now it's worth 75k.
People at work take the piss out of me while moaning about $450 car payments.
Fuck it
CanadianGadgets@reddit
You don't buy EVs unless they are second hand. You lease them. Never buy something that will not only depreciate, but rapidly depreciate when technology is relatively new and constantly in flux. The residual on my Cadillac is a joke. They will NEVER get that amount for it when I return it. Provides a good place for negotiation as there is no way in hell I'm paying the listed price of the residual at the end of my lease.
theflintseeker@reddit
If you live in a HCOL area you need to be pulling a HH income of 350+ at this point to afford all that
anonymous-shmuck@reddit
Uh, we make 400k HHI and we have a 25 year old VW and a 12 year old pickup.. have no clue how people are affording new cars, it’s certainly not in our budget.. looking at a used golf in the 10k range when the one we have finally goes.
Sheriff_Zack@reddit
What are you spending your money on that it’s not in your budget?? You’re pulling in 33k a month, even if you follow the rule of 10% you’re still clearing two 80k car notes easily
Skensis@reddit
Some people just don't want to spend a lot on a car.
JJCLARK3312@reddit
Okay but the conversation is about affordability not preference and frankly if your HHI is $400k there is no scenario where you couldn't afford a brand new car unless you're grossly irresponsibly with money.
magbarn@reddit
Or they're crazy savers. My colleague earns over $400K a year, they live in a house he bought 20 years ago for $375K that's paid off, and they drive 10 year old cars. He's investing well over $100K a year after taxes and still does a 401K after that. They have millions in investments and plan in retiring in 8 years at 58.
loscornballs@reddit
To be fair, upgrading his car may be a waste of money, to him. 40-80k is a lot of money to spend for something he may not really get much joy/utility out of. Now, he probably is a bit miserly, but there likely are things he's more willing to spend money on e.g. vacation, new golf clubs, watches, etc.
Sheriff_Zack@reddit
That’s totally fine, not wanting to buy something and not being able to afford it are two different things in my book
madwolfa@reddit
Man, wouldn't be nice to bring all that money into your grave. /s
magbarn@reddit
Exactly. That's why I drive nice cars and go on trips lol.
madwolfa@reddit
Life is short.
Skensis@reddit
I agree that they can afford it, but also from someone's priorities I can see how they feel it's outside of their budget.
Like, I don't feel I can afford a fancy gaming computer, yet I don't bat an eye spending that sort of money on my car hobby. People just be weird when it comes to finances, even when they are being "responsible" with their money.
obeytheturtles@reddit
That's fine, but "I earn 400k and drive a PoS" is not contributing to this conversation. It's just a humblebrag.
Reddit is facebook.
reef93@reddit
Probably a form of lifestyle creep. When you can afford to do more or spend in a certain way, things can still seem to be "not in budget", but it shouldn't mean that you can't afford it. That is disingenuous on their part. Like if you HHI is high and you mortgage a multimillion dollar home then you could afford a lot more if you had chosen differently.
MightBeJerryWest@reddit
Yeah they've got to be in a very HCOL area, like right in the heart of Silicon Valley, with a 3bd/2ba house for like $2.1M, with small kids going to day care or whatever. In that case, I can probably get it.
$33k gross: $12k mortgage, $4k childcare, $2k groceries, $2k savings...that's $20k right there. Then factor in utilities, property tax, etc. I guess that $33k goes fast.
But the average person isn't doing that.
bc10551@reddit
Idk about two 80k cars if they have a mortgage or very high rent, kids, and whatever else. But definitely easily more than a $10k car lmao
canikony@reddit
... if you make 400k+ a year and you can't afford a new car.... wat?
adamfps@reddit
It's a bait account
Less-Fondant-3054@reddit
Is that because you can't afford it or because you don't see the value in the payment? If it's the former then my friend you have some serious spending issues going on.
bc10551@reddit
Obviously you just don't care about what you drive and have different priorities. This isn't a you can't afford it thing
Inevitable-Cup9067@reddit
you're getting downvoted but I hear you, we all make choices about where best to spend our money, it's not in your budget because you know it's a waste of money and you have better choices for that money.
People don't ever seem to understand that as you make more you also end up committing to spending more too, so when you have twice as much income you dont ever have twice as much spending money.
zoobygainz@reddit
You're taking home at least 20k post tax a month and you don't have $1k in your budget for a car?
OllieFromCairo@reddit
That's the neat part. They don't.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
The top 5% of people earn $440k/year household. That’s easily 16.5M people. The top 10%, so 33M people, earn like $220k/year. Then you have all the people in between those stats, not including the top 1%—and that’s accounting for the top 0.1% or the 0.000001% (billionaires), which are a statistical anomaly.
That’s a lot of households buying luxury cars.
tablepennywad@reddit
My friend finally got his $150k a year job, but his bank almost never has over $5000 in it. He old drives a 2017 mustang and recently got a base Nissan truck for under $25k. Money just doesn’t go as far anymore when everyone is trying to squeeze everything from yah.
Specialist-Size9368@reddit
Eh, my household is over 220k/year. We live in the midwest. Dinks. An 80k+ car is not happening. Maybe if we had no mortgage. I just bought my gladiator and part of that was the 12.5k off msrp its 50,500 msrp. IE I stayed under 40 before my trade in.
cubs223425@reddit
Is that 5% cited from something using the entire US population as the sample? I'd have a hard time trusting anyone including children when calculating the percentage of top earners in the country.
If it's not, then you'd cut the size of the sample down drastically. If you only included what SHOULD matter--the working population of the country--5% of the sample would equal way less than 16.5 million.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
I used household figures, not individual. Individual figures skew data and don’t account for kids and stuff.
cubs223425@reddit
Then your numbers are REALLY misguided. 16.5M is 5% of 330M. You're attributing the top 5% of household income to the entire household, then using to call the entire household a customer base. 16.5M people are IN HOUSEHOLDS with that income level, but a baby in that household isn't a customer base. Young children that make up the 33M you cite as the top 10% are not car shoppers.
You claim you don't use individual figures because they skew things, but you're multiplying the household income by the population and absurdly skewing the population base of car shoppers to claim an impossible customer base.
obeytheturtles@reddit
Yeah, you specifically cannot mix household stats and individual stats. Children and homemakers earning zero actual income is a big part of why income and wealth is typically tracked by household.
5tudent_Loans@reddit
But when you can actually comfortably afford luxury. How many of them are really buying a Lucid over a BMW/Merc/Porsche/Audi/Cadillac/RollsRoyce/Bentley
jhowlett@reddit
Small sample size, but the wealthier people I know mostly drive Lexus, at least for their daily and kid hauling vehicles. A few have toys in the BMW and Porsche categories.
5tudent_Loans@reddit
I forgot to list that too but drives the point even further
WalterEKurtz@reddit
Bonehead comment, did you take 5% of the total US population? Did you forget kids, retirees, disabled, etc?
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
This is HOUSEHOLD income.
ASV731@reddit
This should serve as a reminder to not use standard terms and metrics used by economists in a car subreddit. It apparently makes them angry.
OllieFromCairo@reddit
Even if you accept the salary numbers, the leap from 5% of households make this much money, so 5% of the population is a potential luxury car customer was actually stupid.
WalterEKurtz@reddit
Yes then you're taking 5% of the entire population! And you can't say:
top 5% of people earn $440k/year household. That’s easily 16.5M people.
What are you talking about? People or households?
This isn't good math.
OllieFromCairo@reddit
It’s not that high. I’m not sure where you got that number, but it’s very wrong.
ASV731@reddit
What do you think the correct numbers are?
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
The figures vary based on sources but these were figures I saw repeated over and over so it’s the one I used. Even if it’s off by $100,000, the point still stands. A ton of people can afford these cars.
OllieFromCairo@reddit
It’s off by more than $100,000 AND you’ve confused people with households. So just stop.
Sqweaky_Clean@reddit
aka 20% (1 in 5) of cars on the road should be "luxury".
IguassuIronman@reddit
Depends on what people want to buy, though. I made ~$250k last year and drive a 9 year old Golf
m1a2c2kali@reddit
New luxury at least, but those cars still get sold 3-5 years down the road
Mirageswirl@reddit
If only the top of the K buys new cars, eventually every car will be a luxury car.
Suck_My_Thick@reddit
With all your math you're making a lot of assumptions. I work in the tech industry. Not giving you my background, but I can assure you people aren't wasting their money buy expensive cars every year. Just because you can afford something doesn't mean you have to buy it. You be amazed how many millionaires are happily driving around in 5-10 year old Rav-4s and Camrys.
obeytheturtles@reddit
This is also not evenly distributed. If you are in a major metro area, a much larger portion of your neighbors are top 10% earners and higher.
MarcusSurealius@reddit
The stat I got last night was that the top 1% has 34% of the wealth in the US, and the bottom 50% has less than 2% of the total.
PetGorignak@reddit
Insane to me is that:
I own an M3. It was to me a stupid expensive car. It was just at or under $80k. It was cheaper than tons of SUVs, electric cars, and even trucks that I see on the road everyday. It's basically as expensive as a sedan gets yet it is now kinda middle of the pack overall with grand wagoneers and model S and king rancher trucks all around it
xlb250@reddit
No kids
mustangfan12@reddit
Leases help people afford expensive cars and they have tax advantages for business owners
Averageinternetdoge@reddit
Right? I live in a backwater dump all things considered, and even in here there's now a lot of electric porsches and similarly expensive cars going around. About 10 years ago you could maybe see one porsche during the summer. And I really doubt the people have gotten that rich during that time.
magshell-alpha@reddit
The CNBC article today blew my mind when I read
SpaceCricket@reddit
What’s funny is if you share this same comment in like the MiddleClassFinance subreddit, people will argue with you until the cows come home that having a $1,000/mo car payment is “normal” and expected.
vetruviusdeshotacon@reddit
8% apr 48 month leases by people who live in mcmansions
Yotsubato@reddit
It’s often 0-3% interest and 80 month terms. People see it as free money
zoobygainz@reddit
0-3% interest for 80 months? where lol
Less-Fondant-3054@reddit
Nowhere now, but it was not that uncommon before the post-covid interest rate increases.
madwolfa@reddit
I have 2.99% for 72 months on my Outback.
Yotsubato@reddit
Tesla had an offer like that.
Jeep used to have grand wagoner deals like that too.
Its actually not a bad idea if you have a business you can tie the car to deduct the interest and depreciation.
PsychologicalPen8634@reddit
Not for leases
Yotsubato@reddit
Leases dont have APR so I figured they meant a car loan
Less-Fondant-3054@reddit
To paraphrase an ad campaign from around the last big crash: "[They're] in debt up to [their] eyeballs!". These are people who have six figure jobs, usually two in the household, and who are literally spending every after-tax dollar on debt payments and bills. They have no actual discretionary income, they just try debt consolidation every now and again to bring the payments back down to within their actual income.
PalmSizedTriceratops@reddit
Debt lol. Insane amounts of unreasonable debt.
frankchn@reddit
90th percentile household income in 2025 is >$250k. Stock market are near all time highs. Lots of people are very well off.
zoobygainz@reddit
People also have different priorities than you. I know people that drive a corolla but travel every other month.
I also know people that are 35+, live at home with their parents so they spend all their money on a G8X payment
lee1026@reddit
For families of two adults plus kids, 200k a year is about 70th percentile. Higher than that in big cities.
That’s who you are bidding against, for literally everything.
AppMtb@reddit
Debt
DetroitLionsEh@reddit
If you had a decent portfolio for the last 12 years. You’ve probably at minimum quadrupled your net worth with the safest stocks.
coyote500@reddit
A lot of people live beyond their means, and also a lot of people make a lot more money than you
stupidber@reddit
Stonks
Gods_ShadowMTG@reddit
leasing
c74@reddit
i think it is worth considering what we are served up by social media. we get fishbowled on what we watch and interact with... big money to marketing companies to get eye balls. i think we can get easily tricked into thinking the sky is no longer blue.
markyymark13@reddit
The EV market in the US is stagnating because it's limited to people who A.) own a home and B.) have charging installed in said home, and that of course coincides with more wealthy people. But that's a limited market, for basically anyone else EVs are a non starter due to the lack of charging infrastructure and somewhat meh (though improving) options compared to hybrids.
EloeOmoe@reddit
My family was in a townhome for about three months in between moving from one home to the next. We figured "we'll just trickle charge with the regular outlet during the day and hit up the super charger when needed" and boy let me tell you how much of a hassle that ended up being.
donnysaysvacuum@reddit
You must drive a long distance daily? I went over a year on a level 1 charger.
mustangfan12@reddit
Rich people also don't care a ton about gas mileage
lee1026@reddit
Homeowner rate is what, 60%?
And I am willing to bet you that 60% includes 75%+ of new car buyers.
markyymark13@reddit
This statistic is kind of misleading at face value because this is about housing units under ownership, it doesn't mean that 60% of the actual population owns a home - thats nonsense.
lee1026@reddit
60% of the population lives in a home that someone in the family owns.
And since installing a charger is generally easy if your family owns the home, there isn't quite the showstopper there.
ikilledtupac@reddit
And you can’t show up with a finicky 6 figure EV that looks good on paper but is annoying as hell to live with and expect to compete with BMW and Mercedes.
HawtGarbage918@reddit
Nope, especially for EVs. Hence the $1B+ in unsold inventory.
faustianBM@reddit
$1B+ in inventory.... That's like 500 Lucids? /S
CanadianGadgets@reddit
The Lucid Gravity is pretty awesome. The problem is they have not established themselves in the non-luxury market, so there isn't a lot of trust there yet. You cannot just declare yourself a luxury brand. You have to earn it. That said, I think they are going to get there eventually. They just have to realize that they are competing with things like the Cadillac Vistiq Platinum, which is what I eventually went for. But I think Lucid will find their niche eventually. The company is well positioned in terms of the investments they have made.
BassWingerC-137@reddit
FIX THE SOFTWARE
Make it stable.
Add geo lock features to the auto unlocking.
Give me a "button" to toggle on/off the side-view mirror tilt for as needed use.
Make me WANT to keep my Air or even replace it with another.
CanadianGadgets@reddit
That's all software that can be updated as they go. They are ALL doing it. I'm still waiting for Cadillac to get off their ass and get Apple Key to work with my Vistiq Platinum. We were promised it would be coming soon at the car show, but still nothing.
chargedcapacitor@reddit
The features you are asking for can't exist without time investment. They can throw all the money and engineers in the world at the problem, but it still still take time to solve. Time that other auto manufacturers have had, but they haven't. The question is can they survive long enough to solve these issues.
BassWingerC-137@reddit
A of software guys can sort it out in a few hours. See Jason Camissa’s Tesla experience.
Sarionum@reddit
Because Lucid is the most pathetic and garbage car company to exist. The software might as well be written by a 10 year old. The engineering might as well be by a group of highschoolers. Horrendous support for a horrendous car.
Accomplished_Crab903@reddit
Give it time boys, we can get 50k gravities soon
Choice_Student4910@reddit
Sucks to hear this because I’d hate them to be another Fisker. But poor management does what it does.
FreeEnergy001@reddit
If they can get the next SUV out for $40k and get the software issues sorted out, they can have a niche in the EV sector. They'll never get to be Tesla or BMW but should be able to turn a profit. Though for a wider audience car, I have to wonder if they can expand their service centers fast enough to keep customers satisfied.
OverFell_Hero@reddit
Lucid is reportedly sitting on a lot of unsold inventory, so the new CEO is slowing production to match demand and avoid building up even more excess.
FreshStartLiving@reddit
50-60% depreciation rate...why by new when you can pay less than half the price on slightly used and there are a ton.
ExtruDR@reddit
This might be bad for the first owners or (more likely) the people leasing, but amounts to a potentially reasonable deal for 2nd owners buying a 3- or 4- year old car.
I like nice cars but never buy new and have been pretty lucky and satisfied with this strategy in the past. I really want an EV (even though I am at least two years away from wanting to change things up), and a Gravity or Air for "new Accord" money would be where I'd want to be.
The only thing that I would consider somewhat seriously is how the first, short-term owners of these cars treated the batteries (did they run them down constantly? max out the charging?) in regard to how much life is left in the batteries.
I think that the way that manufacturers have addressed this with ICE vehicles is by including routine maintenance for the first few years so that the original (new car) owners/renters don't ignore this responsibility.
btroberts011@reddit
I got a 25' Ford lightning extended range new for 47k. I would normally never buy new, but that seemed alright to me.
freakinidiotatwork@reddit
They're 25 feet long?
blackhawk867@reddit
That's an insanely good price, less than I paid for my Lariat Ranger!
seopants@reddit
My buddy got a Lightning Flash for $46k last year. It’s a nice truck.
canikony@reddit
hmm I need to look into these more.
btroberts011@reddit
It's a little tougher now since Ford discontinued them. I ordered in August of 25' and took delivery in January 26'
Since then prices have increased. (No supply and increased demand.)
FreshStartLiving@reddit
That's a great deal and less than many other used ICE F150s!
reddisaurus@reddit
Less and less people are buying new EVs when they effectively cost 10-30% more due to the depreciation. People buying 100k cars tend to rotate cars more often… absolutely no reason to buy an EV in that case.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
relative to msrp, nobody paid retail for a lucid 2-3yrs ago, on top of standard luxury sedan depreciation
xstreamReddit@reddit
That has always been the case on new luxury cars though. Maybe not 60 but 40%
tablepennywad@reddit
Get ready for $500 leases again!
fldsmdfrv2@reddit
I am a buyer at $30k
gritshop58@reddit
They are beautiful vehicles. Wish I had $120,000 sitting around to buy one.
Strange_Pay_4747@reddit
I'm not so sure that's really the main problem here. Tons of startups have struggled with inventory but made it work by pushing harder on marketing or cutting prices. Just stopping production could mess up supplier relationships and kill momentum.
dedboooo0@reddit
when you're getting something with the features of a $20,000 chinese ev for the price of $100,000... what did they really expect?
BowlOfFlowers@reddit
They feel cheap inside in my humble opinion. Sat in a couple during the Miami car show
cuteman@reddit
Really? Maybe the one I sat in was fully loaded but it smelled and felt like an expensive pair of shoes.
jakinatorctc@reddit
I get their powertrains are crazy good but I was shocked when I sat in an Air at a car show and got to chatting with the brand rep and he told me it was a $200k car as shown
BlessedCucumber@reddit
The seats in the Air are literally from Hyundai. They’re not in-house.
doubletwist@reddit
Yeah that's the top ,absurd trim, tri-motor 1.89s 0-60.
You can get them starting at $70k (before incentives) for the RWD model (4.0s 0-60) or I got a good lease deal on a Touring (AWD 3.4s 0-60) in Feb 2025, the lease was based on $65k price after incentives, including the Stealth package and comfort and convenience package. Doesn't have the upgraded audio (for which I'm sad) and doesn't have the Dream Drive Pro (self driving, for which I'm happy not to have). But it's an amazing vehicle to drive and I love it.
I really hope they last long enough to make a go at their mid-size model coming out, especially since it looks like they've made a lot of effort to reduce complexity and make it more reliable and easy to fix (and cheaper to insure).
The only questions remaining are:
Bassracerx@reddit
Was it the sapphire?? That was the fastest ev at one point possibly the fastest car at one point
Bored__Lord@reddit
It’s also the only one over 200k so has to be
doubletwist@reddit
I haven't looked closely at the gravity but my Air certainly doesn't feel cheap. It's better than my 2020 BMW was.
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
Have you been in a Tesla? Lucids are way nicer in comparison.
BowlOfFlowers@reddit
Yes many. Teslas are junk. Sure lucids as are nicer and the engineering is cool but I was not impressed with what I experienced
AWDriftEV@reddit
Saudi money is about to stop flowing in. Lucid makes great tech but they are a terrible car company.
Synchronous_Failure@reddit
It's funny because everyone here is saying the opposite, that the car itself is fine or even great but that the tech sucks.
AWDriftEV@reddit
By great tech I mean mechanical tech. Their infotainment is quite poor in comparison to Tesla and Rivian.
DaveAwesome777@reddit
Too expensive. 100k for a car? I can barely afford a house.
jkggwp@reddit
Greed is not a good business strategy. American car companies need to learn from the Chinese.
moonRekt@reddit
Breaks my heart, the Gravity is such a sexy car spec’d in aurora green with stealth package (surprisingly the free option too), but it’s really too bad the brand spent money on overpaid CEOs and marketing when they should have spent it on engineers.
I see the Gravity as competition to the Model X and then Robin R1S and even Escalade, it succeeds in many categories for me but the reliability for such an expensive car, on top of viability of company—ugh. I had a deposit on a fisker back in the day and thank god that’s all, but I’d hate to see Lucid suffer the same fate
Basic-Operation-6017@reddit
1.47B sitting and they're still adding new trims. Demand never caught up to the production runs they're betting on
haragoshi@reddit
A tale model Y is $40k and drives itself. Why would u want a lucid?
warmchairqb@reddit
The Lucid sedan reminds me of a stretched DSM Eagle Talon. Totally would consider had it been more affordable.
VariationAgreeable29@reddit
Their SUV was a golden opportunity and they delivered the market a minivan. Absolutely the stupidest thing they could’ve done.
chargedcapacitor@reddit
They sell on an international market, especially an international market that is moving towards "responsible" family movers. This car is a middle blend between what most Asian markets want and what most Western markets want, which probably means no one will want it.
greg-maddux@reddit
They should’ve made the air a lifted wagon and an actual full size suv.
canikony@reddit
Honestly, I wish they would have just thrown sliding doors on the Gravity. Calling it an SUV is such a stretch as it's definitely more van or wagon.
NashBotchedWalking@reddit
In Germany their used Airs haven’t moved since more than one year
Throwawaymytrash77@reddit
They're a luxury car maker producing cars at a rate luxury car makers don't typically make, I would think. I can only assume cars in that price range aren't mass produced
TextureComics@reddit
They need an affordble option, a functional interior with physical buttons, and the software team needs to clean up their work.
The gravity is not close to enough in the current competition.
Mr6507@reddit
I noticed a lot of used Pures were going for $40k but after reading the Lucid subreddit there was no chance.
PhilosopherChemical1@reddit
Idk, I was looking at grand touring for 50k, I might still bite the bullet. I guess im just waiting to see more people doing DYI repairs on youtube before I jump in. Most of the issues seems software driven.
Mr6507@reddit
The main one that stopped me was the frunk alignment issue keeping you from driving the car
Grass8989@reddit
Reddit told us that they were gong to overtake Tesla tho.
OhFuckNoNoNoMyCaat@reddit
Solar panels. Battery system. Level 2 charger at home.
I have zero interest in purchasing a new car in this economy and certainly not an electric car. I think they can be fun to drive but they're ultimately not for me.
greg-maddux@reddit
Considering a bare bones gravity is 80k and skyrockets as you add options makes it less desirable than, say, the Cadillac vistiq or ioniq 9. It’s nice, but for a new manufacturer without a broad dealer/service network, it’s just not viable. I thought about checking one out but the only showroom would’ve taken an hour and a half to get to. Cadillac has 3 dealerships within 30 minutes of me.
mustangfan12@reddit
You need $2900 to make it a 3 row SUV too, so that 80k starting price is misleading
mustangfan12@reddit
I just looked up the Gravity's configurator and you need to pay $2900 to turn it into a 3 row SUV. They also only offer gray scale colors for the most part.
No wonder why it isnt selling, they nickle and dime you on options heavily. On top of that terrible software, I saw one on the road and it looks like a $40k car
aftonone@reddit
I’ve only ever seen 2 lucid vehicles in the wild
kevinstu123@reddit
He will still get paid a lot. No accountability for execs.
xXNodensXx@reddit
I hear that the Sapphire is really fast. Too bad all the Lucid cars are ugly af.
elbobo19@reddit
To put this into perspective Lucid's total revenue for all 2025 was 1.35 billion. They are sitting on more product than they sold last year.
PJKenobi@reddit
I love how when products don't sell, these companies never even consider that their products might be too expensive. They will come up with every explanation under the sun except that they need to lower their prices.
MaximumStock7@reddit
I tired really hard to get a gravity test drive and it was a nightmare
RickieBob@reddit
Great vehicle. Costs way too much.
Echoes of Fisker. Also a great vehicle which had a decent price. Unfortunately they are gone.
pdp10@reddit
Having ridden in, and examined, these, they seem to be great cars. I'd encourage anyone in the market for a full-sized sedan to definitely take a test drive.
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
They're really nice. But a lot of people are still complaining about the reliability of the electronics apparently.
mustangfan12@reddit
The Lucid Gravity just doesn't look expensive, I saw one in person on the road and it looks like a normal $40-50k minivan. Then throw in their horrible software issues and wealthy people aren't gonna buy one
The luxury car market is over saturated now
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
I think the problem is that from an engineering perspective they probably designed a car that suits peoples needs very well and better than most of the competition. But buyers are not perfectly rational.
7hunderbird@reddit
Literally the first time I’ve ever heard of this company.
batinyzapatillas@reddit
Coincidentally, last saturday I saw my first ever Lucid vehicle in the wild. Shining like a new diamond.
In Madrid, Spain. I didn't even know those were available for sale in Spain.
It was an Uber, which blew my mind. There might be a relation with those pressing stocks.
EVRoadie@reddit
I see them everyday in Arizona. Evidently, they have a plant here.
needed_an_account@reddit
I just saw that nyc bought up the inventory of fiskr cars to use as city cabs or something. I wonder if something like that will happen with lucid
ComfortablePlenty513@reddit
the market for a 100k EV is dried up- it's a 2021-era luxury good that nobody really wants anymore.
they need to focus everything on launching sub-50k model(s) and maximixing reliability.
Dr__Nick@reddit
If people actually thought they were worth that much, they would lease or buy them without the incentive.
Very expensive Merceds / BMW luxury vehicles continue to move.
K_R_A_K_E_N_540@reddit
Fun fact. Out of the Audi A8, BMW 7 series and S class. Only the S class is profitable, the rest lose money.
Dr__Nick@reddit
Yes, the S is the class winner there.
TEG24601@reddit
Time for re-evaluating the prices and getting them out there. Most people who would benefit the most from an EV aren't able or willing to spend nearly that much.
Jabba_the_Putt@reddit
I feel like consumers don't realize or appreciate that when you buy a car you are not just purchasing the vehicle you are buying into their ecosystem.
when you buy a chevy or a volkswagen or a honda you are getting the product but also decades of business and the platform on which it resides.
buy a lucid you get the privilege of not only spending 100k but being their test dummy too....and who's coming to save you when it corrupts? lucid is nothing they are no one, no one is coming to save you
Wsswaas@reddit
Where I live I am seeing it more and more everwhere, they have the pay half now and the rest two years later with 0% interests, I would never get an EV in a hot climate
K_R_A_K_E_N_540@reddit
It's magical to have a EV in a hot climate. You never have to get in a hot or cold car again, biggest "Luxury" ever
citrixn00b@reddit
You see, when the cars are good but the software is shit, you'll end up with some hefty paperweight.
Buc_ees@reddit
Stop pricing this car so high. I would much rather be spending money on Mercedes Benz or Cadillac than lucid start up car.
SGT_BIG_JOE@reddit
They are opening a new dealership not far from me, was previously a Infiniti location.
sleepinglucid@reddit
This is why BMW is releasing the Electric M3 for 70k.
100k+ is reserved for such a very small subset of buyers
overeasyeggplant@reddit
So, I am planning to buy an EV soon, should I wait for a really cheap Lucid?
Bored__Lord@reddit
You can already get super cheap used ones. I’ve been eyeing them for when my lease ends in a few months
overeasyeggplant@reddit
Yeah, but if they have so many unsold ones just sitting around - surely the price of used will drop even further soon.
SimplyHuman@reddit
I'll buy one for 40k
cpatrick1983@reddit
You may soon be able to
FourEyesAndThighs@reddit
Lucid needs to get their Model Y competitor out the door.
Following the Tesla strategy of luxury car, luxury crossover isn't going to help them. Maybe 10 years ago when the market wasn't as crowded.
chinmakes5@reddit
You mean a company that sells $100k cars isn't doing well?
Old_Let6608@reddit
Not a great sign Lucid Motors clearly overestimated demand. Pausing production makes sense but sitting on $1.47B in unsold inventory shows they’ve got a serious demand and pricing problem to fix.
Ragnaroknight@reddit
Lucid thought starting with the most expensive models first would work because it worked for Tesla and the Model S. The issue is the Model S released in a landscape where it was basically the only decent EV.
Lucid doesn't have that luxury. Too many other options, at much better prices.
bush_killed_epstein@reddit
They’re trying to reel people in with ads, that’s for sure. I get ads from them all the time on reddit. I think they are spending too frivolously because I’m a 20-something broke dude who owns a 13 year old $5K beater econobox
standarsh50@reddit
Not going to be an early adopter for a car with such little service center presence near where I live in the Midwest.
thetrappster@reddit
Not surprising, they're pricey, ugly, and full of software problems.
sherkon_18@reddit
I have them $0.50 for a car.
KingMescudi@reddit
My coworker bought a gravity when it first dropped and has been problem after problem. In the shop every week. He’s driving his dad’s avalon right now. This company will probably be toast in a few years.
TheMipchunk@reddit
That's really too bad. I'm in the USA and have been looking to eventually switch to a full size, long range EV sedan but there aren't that many left, and Lucid Air seemed like it could be promising.
edwardothegreatest@reddit
Timothée Chalamet pimping them didn’t put them over the top? Curious.