Thoughts on going into management vs staying technical/coding?

Posted by YouDoHaveValue@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 29 comments

I sat down with one of our more senior division leaders recently and asked them for some mentoring advice on what I should be doing with my career.

They had an answer I'm still mulling over:

Go into management. Development and IT changes constantly, but once you learn to manage people and projects you can basically just do that for the rest of your career and unlike the technical stuff it wont dramatically change. Plus you can basically go into any field - medical or satellites or whatever - and while the details change the fundamentals stay the same.

Being a career technical guy and senior developer / team lead for a while it kind of hurt to hear this, but also I see the wisdom in it.

The prospect of trying to keep up on technology for the next 20-30 years is daunting and especially here there's a ceiling on what you can earn that's lower than management.

I'm interested in some perspective from devs who really love coding and either stayed coding into their 50s and 60s OR got into management and how that worked out for you.

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skidmark_zuckerberg@reddit

I’d rather spend the next 30 years adapting and evolving technically than have to deal with a fraction of what I’ve seen my managers deal with.

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He sat in meetings for 70-80% of his day, almost daily. He had to constantly be the shield for the dev teams and argue with executive leadership or with sales because they loved to overpromise or promise things they had no clue were possible or not. He had to deal with firing people. He handled all performance reviews. He was the single point of blame if something did not go well and was entirely responsible for everything the dev teams did or didn't do.

Even with all of that, he did not believe in blame culture. So even if production went down because a team let a bug slip into a release, and he had to hear about it from the executives, he would come to the team responsible and figure out ways to mitigate it in the future. He was a developer in his early years, so he 'got it'. Very pragmatic, empathetic and had good people skills. Personally, if I had to deal with all that he did, there is no way I could be any of these things. It's an entirely different beast compared to doing IC related work.

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zozoped@reddit

Sounds like a great manager.

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Skittilybop@reddit

Every job, I just watch my middle managers having no control over what happens. They get lied to by my teammates who tell them everything’s great, almost done, we’ll demo it Monday. Then they go up the chain and lie to their boss, everything’s super great, we demo it next Friday. Just talking and bullshitting and politicking all day. No thanks.

olddev-jobhunt@reddit

I've done it.

My hypothesis essentially is this: having a couple years of EM experience will help to land a staff/principal role if I want to go back, and I don't have to. I have the skills to work on both sides of that fence.

If I stick around for a decade as an EM, then swapping back might be harder. But I'm betting that 2 - 5 years is the sweet spot. Nothing is true for everyone, but... that's where I'm starting. We'll see how I feel in a couple years!

On the topic of keeping up... I just don't worry about it. I mean, I didn't worry about it. As a very experienced senior dev, no project is wholly new: SQL queries, DOM, CSS, REST... those things are very common even as the world shifts. So I have full confidence that I can pick up what I need whenever I end up needing it. I definitely feel for new devs entering the industry: there's a lot of things I picked up one at a time over the years that are now necessary, but once you get that foundation there isn't that much that's truly new in any given quarter.

Zombie_Bait_56@reddit

I retired as a software engineer at 67. I enjoy coding, I never enjoyed management.

I also had a boss who complained often about managers who think they can manage work they can't do themselves. That is pretty much the source of all evil in this subreddit.

EdelinePenrose@reddit

i think transitioning into management is a good idea to expand your skill sets, but i’m not sure the advice you got was sound given the specific reasons. management skills will make you more marketable and i found the work easier and less stressful but that depends on company culture. being a technical manager is a huge leg up too, and you can manage your time/boundaries correctly to retain some coding time which may look more like process automation than building features. you should still be technically involved in technical/product decision making.

what’s the pay difference?
what’s the workload/ culture difference at the place? it’s better to experiment this track change at your current employer if possible.

denver111797@reddit

I transitioned into management at a young age but I wouldn’t recommend it for everyone or for the reasons your mentor stated. I think about my career options a lot and going into the medical field or satellites is not it. I feel pretty committed to software engineering.

I’d only do it if you think you’d be better at it and enjoy it more. Or if you have ambitions to climb the ladder or get into entrepreneurship/startup founding. This is why I did it and it’s treated me well. I didn’t do it so I would have to stay up to date with a changing field, I definitely do, if not faster than the engineers reporting to me.

WJMazepas@reddit

Look, Im just at my 30s, but i was already a tech lead for over 2 years, and now I don't want to become a lead again unless the pay is substantially better(which is not always true)

Dealing with code can be frustrating, but its rewarding and fun in the end.

Dealing with people? With business people that are not reasonable with what they want? Or higher ups that somehow get in your way more than actually helping you in delivering their product? Or dealing with incompetent developers but you cant fire them or move them out of your team, even though it would be beneficial to the team?

Fuck me but that part is much more frustrating than any code I have ever deal with.

canihelpyoubreakthat@reddit

Do non technical managers have a future in this field?

Wide-Pop6050@reddit

This subreddit vastly undervalues any department other than engineering

I'm in management and I really love it. I like working with people, planning long term strategy, and being involved in the big picture. I don't really find the things people complain about with management to be a big problem, and I prize being able to make an impact more. I am pleasantly surprised by how well this works for me, and I am a good manager! I wa added to a project recently to clean up things and make sure it ran well - and its on its way there thanks to me.

rsalot@reddit

Chasing the hype force you to constantly learn new paradigms

If you focus on stable tech like postgres or Java (could be many others) they tend to be stable over times

The fundamentals are mostly the same

Moving as manager felt and still feel much harder than moving as IC if you're good at it

The number of people trying to be manager or claiming to be a good manager is very high and it's hard to see which one is good or bad when hiring. The competition always felt more harsh when you want to be a manager

Still I would recommend to go in the field you like ic/tech lead/manager. Being really good at what you like is much easier and being good usually make you more hirable by your peers later on

I'm ic, was proposed to become a lead 10-30 times (I don't count anymore) and I don't believe it would have been possible to be in the position I'm in now if I moved as a manager

GhettoGifGuy@reddit

I know that I went into the CS field because the main component I hoped to be troubleshooting and problem solving in my day to day was bound by logical conditions. Now that I actually work in the field, I’ve realized that working with others and soft skills do impact my day to day more than I intended. However, seeing what my previous tech lead turned department manager does, I know that I don’t want to go into people management. It’s more complex, emotionally nuanced, and political than I could handle. It’s also an entirely different skill set than what my education and on job experience have provided. I’ll take cognitive load via frequent technical up-skill vs emotional load via people problem solving any day of the week. Plus being in management makes it harder to create hard boundaries with work, and I like being able to walk away from my computer and being (usually) done with my company BS for the day.

rArithmetics@reddit

Being a manager is a special hell in the world.

Which-World-6533@reddit

People who are good at something say that other people should do that thing.

Also, Pig Farmers think becoming a Pig Farmer is the way to go.

What do you actually enjoy...?

liquidbreakfast@reddit

i actually really disagree with this? people in the trenches of a job tend to know all the ugly parts and discourage people from pursuing it ime

YouDoHaveValue@reddit (OP)

That's a good point, Mark Manson said find the struggle/hardship that you actually sorta like.

Antique-Stand-4920@reddit

I was an IC who swore I'd never go in to management, but here I am in. It was basically a situation where I was given a chance to try it out before committing. I figured I might as well try calling the shots instead of someone else who might be worse than me.

The advice you were given is pretty sound, though I've never tried management in a different field. I'd say if you have an opportunity to try it out, try it out. Research alone can't answer if you actually like it and are willing to do the work. Also there's no rule that you have to stay in management. The worst case is that you learn more of he realities of building a team and successful product.

And just one thing, most of your value as a manager isn't making the team work faster or becoming 10X devs. That's really up to the devs themselves. A lot of your value is to help your team avoid stuff that slows them down or wastes their time. That gives room for the devs to level-up if they choose.

Basic-Kale3169@reddit

Just do something meaningful to you, otherwise your life will be miserable.

mkg11@reddit

I hate my managers and i think they actually do more harm than help. I know thats not always the case but Ive seen it often enought to know that id much rather stay technical

kevinossia@reddit

Technology doesn’t change much so I’m not sure why you’d want to give that up if that’s what you like doing.

The idea that we’re always playing catch-up the latest tech is nonsense and it’s never been true unless you’re only a frontend web developer.

Izacus@reddit

Do you really think your current managers (that aren't incompetent and at risk of firing) are using 20 year old management techniques and know nothing about engineering and technologies you use?

adilp@reddit

Coinbase just said no more pure managers. Expectations is to be a strong high level IC as well. Player coach type. Industry is shifting to this. Meta said it a year ago. Amazon historically always had technical round for managers. They will likely shift to this model soon as well. Smaller teams now so no need for pure managers. But strong technical leadership is in demand.

roger_ducky@reddit

Depends on company.

It is true that a large number of companies do have more traditional managers.

But at the same time, there’s fewer managers than there are line employees.

So, it’s really up to you.

Recent_Science4709@reddit

The way I see it, getting a CS degree and becoming a software engineer was going all in on hard skills; going into management feels like a big gamble.

considering big tech is forcing managers to become ICs again, not sure this is the right time for this advice

Professional_Monk534@reddit

same dilemma here