What altitude do you fly over the GW and Verrezzano bridges in the Hudson SFRA?

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pvdas@reddit

The vfr sectional shows congested areas in yellow. You will notice that, on the sectional chart, the entirety of the Hudson river is distinctly colored in blue.

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end_my_miseryy@reddit (OP)

So if a bridge isn’t considered a congested area, then I assume 1200 ft will suffice (700 ft + 500 ft)?

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haveanairforceday@reddit

Doesnt the reg say that you must be 1000 AGL? Not 1000 feet of clearance over the highest obstacle/feature

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pvdas@reddit

91.119 says 1000 feet over the highest obstacle within 2000 feet of the aircraft

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pneumomediastinum@reddit

Not if over open water, which is also why you can get so close to the skyscrapers there.

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pvdas@reddit

I was referring to congested areas, which we established that the Hudson river is not

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There's a required online course to take before you fly the vfr exclusion... it spells out the altitudes and reporting points/frequency to be on. I've done it three times but that was several years ago... if I remember correctly the acceptable altitudes are between 1000-1299 (not 1300).

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CluelessPilot1971@reddit

The course is highly advisable (and I take it before flying the Hudson, I think I took it 4 or 5 times already), but I don't think FAR 93 Subpart W requires training (the way FAR 91.161 requires it for the DC SFRA).

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randombrain@reddit

Do you have a written source for either one of those definitions of what the yellow areas mean?

But your last bit is correct: A "congested area" is defined as "anything the FAA can convince an NTSB judge is a congested area." Examples include a beach with sunbathers and a subdivision with a density of one house per ten acres. See Anderson 2009.

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pvdas@reddit

Hmm... I'm just repeating what I've heard lots of times over the years. From the FAA's Aeronautical Chart User's Guide:

Yellow tinted areas indicate populated places.

That's literally it though. Very helpful.

From the Government Specifications on Sectional Aeronautical Charts page 3-25:

The outline (called the visual outline) shall reflect the physical shape of a developed area as viewed by the air observer.

The city outline shall be broken whenever it coincides with a shoreline of an open water area or a double-line stream dividing a city area.

I think the night lighted area thing is just what people have been saying long enough for it to become 'the common interpretation' because, as we noticed, this stuff is left purposely vague for legal purposes.

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randombrain@reddit

Yep, and that's why I'm calling you out. Nothing personal, just trying to stop the rumor from continuing to spread.

Note that neither a "developed area" nor a "populated place" are exactly the same thing as a "congested area."

Remember that the H in FAA stands for Happiness...

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Brilliant_Scheme_671@reddit

I’ve done the entire thing at 1100’ every time I’ve flown it (probably atleast 20 times.)
If you want higher, get the bravo cleanse and ask for the exclusion tour.

They’re really good about giving the bravo clearance and then letting you do a bit more of sight seeing around NYC.

If you have ADSB-in, I’d recommend 1100’ and just self report on 123.95.
If you don’t, absolutely get the bravo clearance and get higher. There’s lots of helicopter traffic in the area and you will be closer than you’re probably used to with other airborne traffic.

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THevil30@reddit

I don’t know how this plays with the regs but 1,200 feet is where everyone will be expecting you.

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end_my_miseryy@reddit (OP)

Perfect, thank you

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300blkdout@reddit

Get a B clearance and fly above the exclusion zone. It’s way easier and you have someone watching you.

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Hokie_Pilot@reddit

I also prefer the B clearance but when LGA is landing 13, they always tell me no.

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JimTheJerseyGuy@reddit

I've done it that way every time. The traffic in the SFRA has always seemed a bit "wild west" for my taste. In the past, I've flown from my home airport in western NJ toward Sandy Hook, requested "up the Hudson", and gotten cleared through at 2,000'.

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phlflyguy@reddit

For 30 years I've done the trip a million times from Philly region up and back. Every single time I get flight following and do it at 1500 up the Hudson on the East edge, U-turn at the GW and fly back down the West end. Sometimes if LGA isn't using 31, they'll let me cross over the North end of Central Park and fly down the East river back towards the Verizzano and out.

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walleyednj@reddit

I fly it at 1100’.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

When you're flying the hudson class B exclusion, regs state that you must be 1000 feet above any congested area, so an altitude of 1700 feet seems necessary (verrezzano bridge supporting towers are at 700ft). but the max altitude for the class B exclusion is 1300 feet, so what altitude do you fly at over the bridges to stay out of class B and follow regulations?

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