Think of doing a project
Posted by ProcessUnown@reddit | projectcar | View on Reddit | 60 comments
(Image is related to the topic but it not mine)
So I’m thinking of doing a mid engine project car with my dad from scratch but using parts I can find at a Car Wreakers but I’m not sure how to go about it. For some mid Engine project cars I useably see people using trans axle but those aren’t very common where I live and I’d don’t want to buy a transaxle because I’d like to keep it relatively cheap. Would getting a FWD engine and transmission and putting it in the back be a more cost effective way to do so or is there another way to get an engine from a front engine car to work in a mid engine layout without a transaxle. If not is it just better for me to go with a front engine layout.
(I’m don’t intend on building any specific car I would just like to know if a FWD engine and in a mid engine layout would work)
narcoleptictoast@reddit
This is an extremely complex undertaking requiring a substantial amount of work. You will most likely end up fabricating a rear subframe completely from scratch. Unless you guys are already proficient fabricators and you have gobs of money you should reconsider your options.
A better idea would be to find a car that is already mid/rear engine (like an MR2) and swap that.
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
I been thinking about how feasible it is but haven’t started any think yet so I think it’s better I go with a front engine lay out because mid engine cars seem non existent in Australia
tonyis@reddit
You guys got Fiat X1/9s, which was another fwd power train placed in a mid engine car. They aren't terribly expensive and few engine swaps work with them. You'll have a much easier time starting with something like that than starting your own conversion from scratch, especially if this is your first project like this.
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
Chuck a Busso in it
Harryg42@reddit
If you want rear mid engine and RWD but don’t want to fork out for a proper transaxle your only option is basically an MR2 and a Toyota VZ series v6 from a Camry, and even then you’ll likely be forking out a pretty penny for an MR2 that isn’t totally shagged these days, plus all the bits to make it work will either still need fabricating or can be purchased for an arm, leg, and your firstborn.
Alternatively, go front mid(ish) engine with a Z33/34 or V/M/NM-35/36/37 chassis (Nissan Z’s and 2004+ish skylines/stageas/infinitis which are all very similar underneath - same platform) and forget a transaxle, but it still won’t be easy, nor cheap, but there’s more aftermarket support, and they’ll fit just about any decent conventional rwd transmission given how large the CD box is
TurboDorito@reddit
The first gen MR2 literally uses a fwd seat up just in the back, the hubs even have the hole for tie rods still.
secret-citizen@reddit
Yes the subframe, transverse engine/trans, and parts are the same but the suspension geometry for a rwd is set up very different from a fwd set up.
theNewLuce@reddit
The ass end of the Fierro was the front end of a Cavalier
I put a Ford Contour transaxle with a 3L Toreass duratec in the back of a Kellmark.
Challenging but not impossible.
Steelhorse91@reddit
If there’s a FWD with similar track width it can just be a case of chopping the chassis legs and strut towers from the donor and chopping and dropping the project onto it, then sticking the two together (then create fixed tie rods where the steering rack used to be for tow adjustment).
No-Locksmith-9377@reddit
Lol I love how "using a fwd drivetrain" is the hard part and "fully fabricating a full custom tube frame chassis" is the easy part.
Just buy any rear/mid engine car to start.
You keep saying "they dont have those" where you live. Where do you live?
Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit
Bro, if you're thinking about doing a project, I suggest you plan not think.
This project is going to be complex and if it's your first rodeo, it's gunna sit in your garage a while.
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
I’ve mainly been thinking of how feasible is a mid engine lay out and it would be my first even though my two uncle and dad worked in the automotive industry to my knowledge they’ve never worked on mid engine cars so I’ll definitely go with a front engine one instead.
maxmighty88@reddit
So are you looking at getting something like a MR2 and working with that or putting the engine in the back seat of a civic?
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
Kinda but getting for example the front sub frame of a civic fabrication a tube chassis around it and put a body on it still thinking about what body though
Spotttty@reddit
Honestly it sounds like you want to build a kit car.
Look up Factory Five 818. They used a Subaru motor in the back to make a mid engine sports car. Super cool little thing but it never really took off. Their customer base is an older demographic and want muscle cars.
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
I do want to built kit car how did know was it that obvious? Luckily my family know a lot about welding the 3 family members have worked in the automotive industry
fiero-fire@reddit
Mechanical knowledge is great but for something like you'll need a lot of fabrication knowledge. Start practicing welding, learn welding techniques. And you'll need to learn a lot about suspension geometry because you'll be building suspension from scratch basically. None of this is impossible but it's a lot more work than you might think. If you don't know how to use CAD software I'd start there planing it all out
thedaveness@reddit
Can confirm, only thing I’m planning is to buy an extinguisher to make sure my ignition wiring isn’t ass. 2ish years it sat..
DecaForDessert@reddit
I’m building a 4x4 73 duster and that thing has been marinating in my garage for a minute. Absolutely correct lol
classless_classic@reddit
I’m 12 years into my project car.
I’ve driven it one time.
I’ve learned a ton along the way, but anyone who thinks this will be easy if they haven’t made a plan will be sadly disappointed.
DecaForDessert@reddit
Agreed, whatcha building?
Reddit-mods-R-mean@reddit
97 sc300 NA-T. Ms3x full sequential with cop. Microsquirt transmission controller on a semi built a340e with a welded diff.
Not to mention the raspberry pi4 “infotainment” center console where I can tune my ecu/tcu on the fly.
It’s been a project for a while now.
Spotttty@reddit
Dear god!
I never did well in coding class back in the day (well it was c++, I’m old) but that sounds like a nightmare for someone like me.
Sounds dope as hell though. I owned a ‘92 LS400 and a ‘04 IS300 (manual) and hands down, Lexus is my favourite brand.
Reddit-mods-R-mean@reddit
There’s actually no coding involved, tuner studio is used to tune mega/micro squirts and they have a Linux version that runs on the raspberry OS so TS displays anything I want through the touchscreen display in place of my radio. There’s apps to catch radio on RPI so I can actually have a functioning radio again but that’s low priority.
I have a UPS hat for the RPI with a shut down/start up signal wire fed from my alternator output but that’s not fleshed out completely.
It’s all functional but still pretty messy at the moment, coding is not my strong suit either!
80s-2000s Toyota was cool as hell, I had a ls400 and a sc400 too, the 4.0 was a beast when the ECUs would work correctly
I can also play Minecraft on it..
classless_classic@reddit
69 mustang with all upgraded parts from a 2017 Mustang.
The one time I drove it, I exploded the transmission, found a crack in the block and figured out every other component was worn out or from 60’year old technology that wasn’t reliable enough
windraver@reddit
My 1986 Honda CRX. EV mid "engine" rear wheel drive.
I hope you know how to weld.
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/1986-crx-ev-conversion-nissan-leaf-donor-mr-conversion.205433/
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
I do in fact know how to weld so does my dad and Uncle
YesMcLuvin@reddit
do it with a del sol
TheUnderToad@reddit
Look for MR2s!
MannyCoon@reddit
Goldwing flat 6 in the back of a CRX.
fventura03@reddit
my 84 635csi has been a project for 20+ yrs, has only 40k miles on it
Cadillac_Jenkins@reddit
Go to welding school first. Then after you become a journeyman welder, you can begin to think about how to build a mid engine car.
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
I have done work experience in boiler maker and both my uncle and dad are actively working in that trade
Cadillac_Jenkins@reddit
Then, good luck to you! You have every thing you need. Automotive miracles have been performed with will and welder.
KamakaziDemiGod@reddit
Yes you can you a fwd engine, subframe and running gear as a rear engine, and technically all it should need is the steering system swapping for fixed arms connected to a fixed point. You should be able to find arms to replace the steering arms from another OEM car
Technically it should be that simple, but you are likely going to run into all sorts of unforeseen issues, like cooling, where to safely put a fuel tank, weight distribution ect, as well as the obvious clearance issues. You may well end up having to cut out the entire rear end structure, wheel tubs and floor just to find out it's too tall. It all depends on what car you are using for the body, what engine you are using, and how you are going to configure everything. You may be better going into this with the mindset of just playing around with stuff and adapting to what you find, rather than I want X car, with Y engine and so on
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
Well I intend on building a tube chassis from the ground up so we could just build it around the engine
KamakaziDemiGod@reddit
Are you going to put a body on it though, and will it be a body from an existing car, if so what body type? Because making a tubular chassis and an engine fit inside the rear of a car that wasn't intended to house it, is going to use even more space, which isn't much of an issue in a hatchback, and wouldn't be at all in a big estate car, but doing it in a normally front engined coupe is going to be very, very tricky
Nothings impossible of course, it just depends how much time you want to spend faffing around just to have to start again
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
I find a way im still plan so I’ll figure it out
SyntheticParanoia@reddit
So, this is the way I'll be doing mine: I'm going to find a wrecked in the back FWD car and take the entire front end. Delete the steering rack, and build to attach to it. Gives you suspension points, driveline, transmission, and engine. Cable-shifted trans will allow you to get longer cables. Just some thoughts.
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
Thank will work my uncle buy crashed cars often and repairs them so I can ask him about it
TurboDorito@reddit
By "from scratch" do you mean a full custom chassis and body? Because that's a very different question to, how do I put an engine in the back.
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
Kinda like this
Chassis wise not the body image working out what it might look like
trashlordcommander@reddit
I think the confusion you’re having is on the term ‘transaxle’. All FWD cars use a transaxle. It is the combination of both the transmission and the axle (ring and pinion is inside the transmission and the drive axles (CVs) lock into the transmission.) The powertrain is the easiest and simplest part of what you plan to do.
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
Oh my bad sorry about that
trashlordcommander@reddit
For more reference, you can use the entire subframe that the driveline is mounted to, to make this happen. Purchase the front subframe from a vehicle that has an engine you’d like to use that is also preferably McPherson strut suspension. Build around it. You’ll need to delete the steering rack and make solid mounted adjustable tie rods, and make sure it’s installed the same direction it was in the front of the car for caster reasons. Build tube chassis around it. This is no small task or even relatively affordable but it’s not out of the realm of home garage possibilities.
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
Thank for the advice I keep that in mind if fact my uncle does buy crashed cars often and repairs them so I can ask him for some help
TurboDorito@reddit
Just use a FWD car, I wouldn't bother with a custom chassis, it's pointless work. Find a vehicle with a subframe that has everything attached, then you use that plus the suspension turrets. Build mounts off the cars chassis rails for the subframe to attach to, if the suspension geometry is fucked you might need to extend and build new rails.
Then be smart and build a firewall between you and it.
too_much_covfefe_man@reddit
That's a cool idea. Post pics when you get it going
guarks@reddit
Like everyone else here, I would recommend against it as your first project. Besides the examples provided here, you could also check out the twin-engine Malibu they did for Hot Rod Garage. They used FWD 5.3L LS engines in the front and back of the car.
Aleutian_Solution@reddit
It would work, but the amount of work and suspension design and geometry involved with doing that and getting it to work properly is the reason why GT racing teams employ a suspension engineer. I don’t think you understand how much work you’re looking at. Relocating an engine to somewhere it wasn’t originally is a LOT of work. Building something from scratch is even more.
Sullypants1@reddit
Buy mr2.
Modify.
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
Those aren’t that common where I live
ruddy3499@reddit
Definitely feasible. A Pontiac fiero is basically a modified fwd package
Psych0matt@reddit
Ok, I thought of one. Now what?
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
I meant thinking
SumScrewz@reddit
Cutt the floor, use the front subframe/axles/suspensions, etc etc from the fwd and use that as a mockup to where its going to land.
Ruined4banger did one where he just welded the subframe in place
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
Im thinking of building from the ground up but just use junk yard parts for stuff like the engine and transmission so on and so forth. Me, my uncle and Dad have welding experience but my uncle and dad a far more experienced in Welding than I am.
Radiant-Security-347@reddit
"relatively cheap" lol
bimmer_gaige@reddit
i’ve met a guy who did this with an integra with a VW motor. if anyone here’s been to Loe’Show you’ve possibly seen it.
ProcessUnown@reddit (OP)
Thats what got me it to thinking about this project 😂