OTD (May 6th, 1937) The German passenger airship LZ 129 Hindenburg caught fire and was destroyed while attempting to land the Naval Air Station in Lakehurst, New Jersey (🎥 credit: Universal Newsreel)
Posted by Brilliant_Night7643@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 52 comments
Brofessor-0ak@reddit
It’s insane that some people were able to escape that onboard
tomkeus@reddit
Other people already said it, the death toll was not that high, as 2/3 of people onboard survived. And there are multiple reasons. One - hydrogen is very light, so it carried the fire upwards, away from the passenger and crew sections. Two, airships are slow (and in this case also low), so unlike airplanes, they have comparatively little kinetic and potential energy to dissipate. And three, hydrogen didn't instantly disappear, so the airship didn't abruptly lose its buoyancy, and it could descend relatively slowly.
mdp300@reddit
It also helped that they were already in the landing process and very close to the ground when it started.
FEMA_Camp_Survivor@reddit
You can see people running at the bottom. Some didn’t make it.
eyeoutthere@reddit
Not just some. Most survived. 35 deaths, 62 survivors.
FEMA_Camp_Survivor@reddit
This might’ve been the most shocking aviation catastrophe caught on camera until 9/11.
PPGkruzer@reddit
Some smell this as a false flag like 911, to kill airships and regulate them out of existence. Look at Cupolas, those would make perfect spots to park an airship to embark and disembark passengers. If you believe all government and all history, then off course this is off base. Not everyone buys the stories so why this stuff is a thing.
mdp300@reddit
Flying, in general, was a luxury thing. The Hindenburg was super-luxury, the equivalent of one of those private rooms on an A380 that cost something crazy like $20,000 for one flight.
Airships were expensive to build and operate, and never turned a huge profit. Only one company ever successfully operated them, and even then, barely kept going. The US had a couple experimental airships in the navy, but they never were in regular service. The UK built a couple passenger airships, bht they both crashed. Also in the 1930s, airplanes started getting much much better and more reliable. Seeing the biggest and best airship literally go up in flames on camera, was the last nail in the coffin for an already-dying machine.
Airships are cool, but airplanes are functionally better in every way.
And as far as cupolas, while it was thought that tall buildings could possibly be used as docking masts, it was never actually done. The Empire State Building's owners considered it, but the winds up there are too unpredictable, and I dont think it was ever even tried. Cupolas were always just a decorative element.
GrafZeppelin127@reddit
Flying, in general, was a luxury thing. The Hindenburg was super-luxury, the equivalent of one of those private rooms on an A380 that cost something crazy like $20,000 for one flight.
A bit more akin to the Concorde, rather, with $400 tickets (~$9,000 today). It was all first class, but less so for luxury and more so because it was the fastest way to travel long distances, since planes had to stop frequently.
Only one company ever successfully operated them, and even then, barely kept going.
Goodyear operated nonrigid airships just fine, as did the U.S. Navy, amounting to hundreds of them—but if you mean just rigid airships, yes, Zeppelin was the only outfit with the expertise to do so.
The UK built a couple passenger airships, bht they both crashed.
The R101 crashed, the R100 did not. That ship had failed its flight trials spectacularly due to various extremely lethal manufacturing defects and design flaws, but was given special dispensation to attempt an experimental flight to India anyway, for political reasons.
Also in the 1930s, airplanes started getting much much better and more reliable. Seeing the biggest and best airship literally go up in flames on camera, was the last nail in the coffin for an already-dying machine.
Actually, airplanes weren’t even close to directly competing with airships on the same routes by the 1930s, it wasn’t competition that strangled Zeppelin before they could get a real foothold. That was mostly down to the Treaty of Versailles, which was particularly punishing to them, as well as the combination of helium unavailability, the Great Depression, and the Third Reich’s takeover.
Airships are cool, but airplanes are functionally better in every way.
Not every way. Modern airships have higher endurance, as well as useful niches in VTOL heavy lift, military surveillance, and passenger ferry applications, and they are far easier to convert to electric propulsion than airplanes. They need much less power to operate, and are much more energy-efficient as a result. That efficiency may become much more relevant in the near future, due to the gas crisis.
It takes only 12,000 horsepower to get a 500-ton airship to a top speed of 100 knots, for example. It takes the rough equivalent of 300,000 horsepower (in the form of thrust) to get a similarly-massed A380 up to speed, or about 30 times the power in exchange for 5 times the speed.
And as far as cupolas, while it was thought that tall buildings could possibly be used as docking masts, it was never actually done. The Empire State Building's owners considered it, but the winds up there are too unpredictable, and I dont think it was ever even tried.
It was done very briefly, exactly once, and never again. Skyscrapers are not designed for aerodynamics, their slab-sides cause a pile-up of enormous, unpredictable, invisible wind vortexes. It was much easier and safer for everyone involved to simply land airships on the ground or water.
mdp300@reddit
Thanks for correcting me. I know that airplanes weren't really competing with airships in this time, regular ship-ships were. And trains for overland travel.
GrafZeppelin127@reddit
True, that’s a metric captured by what’s termed specific productivity—the payload times velocity divided by empty weight. Typically, a classical airship like the Hindenburg has about 1/5 the productivity of an airplane due to how much slower they are. Not for nothing, but if the A380 provided the same space per passenger as the Hindenburg, it would only be able to carry 73 passengers as compared to the Hindenburg’s 72. Very different sorts of roles.
The Hindenburg, in fact, had about the same empty weight and useful lift as a 787-8. Just an interesting point of comparison. The BBJ version of that jet has less than half the cabin space, so it carries only 25-40 people—albeit much faster, of course.
An airship can match or even exceed an airplane in terms of productivity, however, if modern materials and tech are used to reduce the empty weight and/or fuel weight, which has a drastic effect on productivity, as you can see by this NASA table from a study comparing different sizes and ranges of airships in varying configurations to similarly-sized airplanes:
Specific productivity is the second column from the right, as you can see—highly sensitive to weight.
Actually, they did, all the way back to when they started operations 100 years ago. By 1938, they’d already flown over 3,000,000 miles of passenger flights without incident, and they continued on to today with only a single fatal accident in 2014, in a small, cheap airship that was only branded by them and not actually built by them, which had an engine fire that killed the pilot in the act of saving all his passengers.
Thanks!
mdp300@reddit
That's actually super interesting! The biggest difference would then be the pace. The Hindenburg took 2-3 days to cross from Europe to the US, while a long-haul airliner can do that in 6-8 hours. It would be nice to have things like a lounge and a sit-down restaurant on an airliner, but they're much less necessary when youre in there for less than a day.
The biggest barriers to restarting airships service would probably be thay nobody wants to invest the huge sums to start it up from scratch, and would passengers want to get there slower but in more comfort?
GrafZeppelin127@reddit
The latter is particularly underappreciated—airships were styled just as much if not more after trains than they were ships. They’re much more akin to flying trains in terms of general accommodations, efficiency, and travel speed than they are to flying ships.
100Dampf@reddit
Even if the Hindenburg didn't blow up, there would have been no more Zeppelins. After the war Germany couldn't have built any and the advances in planes made them useless
GrafZeppelin127@reddit
Airships were already basically killed and regulated out of existence by the Treaty of Versailles, the Hindenburg was only the final nail in the coffin. It was one of only two operational transatlantic airships at the time, and would have been laid up in a year by World War II anyway.
chaosattractor@reddit
Being contrarian doesn't make you smart btw
B4rberblacksheep@reddit
Was there any footage of Tenerife?
Dolmetscher1987@reddit
Only the aftermath. But there were air crashes caught on camera far more shocking than Hindenburg's, such as the one at Ramstein, Germany.
3bugsdad@reddit
The photo of the PSA airliner nose diving into a San Diego neighborhood still leaves me speechless.
Too-Late_Froz3n@reddit
It’s the one from LaGuardia into a Long Island. Neighborhood for me
Dolmetscher1987@reddit
Indeed.
IusedToButNowIdont@reddit
https://youtu.be/0R6CDDIY2H0
h3ffr0n@reddit
Not that i know of. It was also quite foggy at the time.
HYThrowaway1980@reddit
No
soloburrito@reddit
Imagine how shocking and upsetting this must have been for people to see on a newsreel at the time. Today we can easily see multiple tragedies per day.
james51453@reddit
Hindenburg deaths = 35, Titanic deaths = 1500. The Hindenburg crash was certainly visually more spectacular (plus being filmed), but the fatalities were not even close. Various train wrecks in the early twentieth century accounted for 500 to 1000 people dead. So while the Hindenburg crash was tragic, other transportation related events were much worse, but not filmed.
64bittechie@reddit
Not so fun fact: Germany could not make helium and they couldn’t import it either so they decided to use hydrogen instead. This was the result of it.
mickandmac@reddit
So, uh, how is helium made?
zenguitar@reddit
You poke a hole in the ground and it spews out. You have to poke the hole in the right place.
WesternBlueRanger@reddit
It is found alongside natural gas reserves; by using fractional distillation, you can separate the helium out from the mixture, purify it, and liquefied via a cryogenic process.
mdp300@reddit
Not only that, but the US was the largest source of helium in the world at the time, and we refused to sell it to Germany.
Vincent-the-great@reddit
I have a rather large piece of the Hindenburg in my room framed and im looking at it rn wondering how tf it survived that.
Artful_Dodger_1832@reddit
What piece is it and how do you come by it?
davidevitali@reddit
AMA now!!
BigBallininBasterd@reddit
Let’s see it
ltcterry@reddit
My personal connection: https://www.terrypitts.com/i-never-met-my-maternal-grandfather-until-today/
TrueDirt13@reddit
Curious, what was he doing that his plane disappeared?
TrueDirt13@reddit
That is awesome
Brilliant_Night7643@reddit (OP)
Ok that’s cool ! 👍
ThinkItThrough48@reddit
I've seen better landings
damutecebu@reddit
Zomnx@reddit
Did the video cut to the explosion, or was the explosion that abrupt?
Plutor@reddit
This is the Pathé News film. Wikipedia says:
yomancs@reddit
It's very sudden isn't it
AlternativeEdge2725@reddit
Oh the humanity!
dyinginmyhole@reddit
they sound so theatrical but it's how the culture was.. empathy, compassion. you can hear the dread in his voice.
Kaiisim@reddit
Oh the huge manatee!
ddadopt@reddit
MadBrown@reddit
Wow this was 22 days before my dad was born. Thankfully, he's still with us and will celebrate his 89th birthday....in 22 days. 😄
Mikepr2001@reddit
The broken voice holy cow...
a_scientific_force@reddit
Can't land there, mate.
Lrrr81@reddit
If anyone here is a fan of "The history guy" on Youtube, he just released a video about the event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KxbATAhBiU