Is it common for low-income students to attend top universities in the United States?
Posted by Intelligent_Chef9950@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 139 comments
I have a stereotype that poor people have to face more difficulties and work much harder than rich people to get into top universities like Harvard, Stanford, and Yale.
one-off-one@reddit
No, it’s not common for anyone especially those with less resources
rrsafety@reddit
Actually, many top-tier universities are very low price for those of low income.
one-off-one@reddit
Less than 0.5% attend Ivy League and under 20% of those students are considered low income. It’s not common. I wasn’t saying it was prohibited.
-Boston-Terrier-@reddit
You don't think 20% of a university's student body doing or being something makes that common?
HottestestestMess@reddit
Did you not see that that is 1/2 as many as non-elite schools? That’s significantly less common than typical.
-Boston-Terrier-@reddit
But is it still common?
More Americans eat pizza than eat hamburgers. This sub is so weird about everything that I half expect you to insist eating a hamburger is uncommon even though it’s incredibly common.
HottestestestMess@reddit
Well, I think you put your finger on something very important: we don’t have a definition for what constitutes “common“. Even if we had a shared understanding of “common,” there’s still a problem of statistical confusion going on in this thread. Almost a third of college students qualify for a Pell grant. If we use that as a proxy for low income, then they make up a disproportionately low number of Ivy League students, if we’re using that 20% number above.
https://educationdata.org/pell-grant-statistics
-Boston-Terrier-@reddit
We do have a definition for "common". The definition of common.
There might be some wiggle room as to the exact moment something crosses the threshold and becomes common but, outside of Reddit, nobody would seriously argue that burgers are uncommon in the United States because more people eat pizza.
HottestestestMess@reddit
And actually, I just noticed on that same fat sheet I linked to, it says that almost 70% of Pell recipients go to a public university. I think that’s a pretty good proxy for it being uncommon to even go to a private school, let alone an Ivy.
one-off-one@reddit
Don’t you think 99.9% of a demographic not attending makes it common?
-Boston-Terrier-@reddit
Attending an Ivy League is relatively uncommon but you also singled out the fact that lower income students only make up 20% of Ivy league campuses.
Do you think it's common to see lower income students at an Ivy League school?
Ibbot@reddit
It’s common to see lower income students at an Ivy League school, but that’s not the question OP asked.
-Boston-Terrier-@reddit
I’m responding to what the other guy said.
He cited 20% of Ivy League campuses being made up of lower income students as if it proved it was a rare site on the Harvard campus.
Ibbot@reddit
You’re ignoring the clear meaning of their comment by only looking at one of the two numbers. Less than 0.05% of students are at Ivy League schools. 20% of those are low income. Taking those two numbers together and assuming that they are correct, 0.01% of students are low income students at Ivy League schools. That’s uncommon.
notimeforniceties@reddit
20% of the Ivy League students being "very low income" is actually huge, and much higher thab that are implying.
The best answer to OP's question is "its uncommon for anyone to go to a top tier school, but 1 in 5 of those who do are very low income"
one-off-one@reddit
Depends what you consider *very* low income, my figure was based on how many receive any Pell Grants which you can still get with an income of \~$45,000
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
The question was is it common, and if you don't get in on one of the spots for low income, then resources will become a barrier.
Unable_Pumpkin987@reddit
The price of tuition is the very last and easiest barrier to overcome in the long, long road from birth to university education.
Low-income students generally have fewer resources at home (including time with parents, which makes a huge difference), go to schools with fewer resources, more problems, higher student-to-teacher ratios. They generally have less access to things like tutoring, test-prep classes, extracurricular opportunities, etc.
Yes, obviously it’s harder for low-income students to get into top universities, that’s why the universities can afford to give free tuition to any kids whose parents make less than $100k or whatever. Because there are so few of them it’s a drop in the bucket compared to the kids whose parents are going to pay full tuition then donate $10k a year to the alumni fund on top of it.
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
And you have to be the top of the top of the top to get that spot.
DrDirt90@reddit
Yes of course that is true. Top tier colleges want the brightest and best.
madogvelkor@reddit
About 1/3rd of Ivy League undergrads are low income.
Zaidswith@reddit
Do you have numbers for that? Because Princeton's financial aid cutoff is $100,000 doesn't mean that a family making that has a low income.
The best I can find is:
Which is less than 20% and not at all 33% you're claiming.
Salty_Permit4437@reddit
A lot of them are waiving tuition or giving full or close to full scholarships.
krendyB@reddit
It’s not common for anyone to attend a top-tier school. Anyway, it depends, a lot of the best of the best have endowments that allow a lot of scholarships or waived tuition.
DeeDeeW1313@reddit
It’s not a stereotype that poor students attending Yale or going to have a harder time than wealthy students.
They either have a scholarship or went into terrible debt to pay for it and are probably having to work while attending the school.
Reasonable_Mood_5260@reddit
It is common due to need based and merit scholarships, and especially athletic scholarships. It is easier to get a full scholarship to Harvard who has an enormous endowment than most other universities. A lot of universities will do partial scholarships but that's is still a lot.
DarthKnah@reddit
25% of Harvard undergraduates pay nothing to attend. Another 30% receive some aid (grants, not loans) but have to pay some. Those that receive no financial aid have family incomes well above $200k.
Top universities do have a disproportionate number of wealthy people (45% of Harvard students receive no aid) despite being need blind, since wealthy families can afford high quality private schools (or to live in districts with high quality public schools), tutoring, and extracurricular activities. In addition, wealthy students with college-educated parents have on average higher GPAs and standardized test scores (partially due to the factors above, and partially due to parental value of education/availability of support/heritability).
Looking at national universities ranked by number of Pell grant students, the general pattern I notice is low-ranked state schools have the most, then the better-ranked state schools, and only then do top privates appear (low ranked privates are scattered throughout the list with no pattern).
TLDR, a high number of low-income students attend top universities, but they still do have more of a struggle to get there than wealthy students.
DrMindbendersMonocle@reddit
It happens but its not common. The level of learning in low income areas is usually much lower because schools are funded by property taxes (so low income are schools also get less funding) and good teachers tend not to want to teach in those schools because they dint want to live there. The students who make it out of there to top universities tend to be super motivated individuals who really put a lot of effort in to their own education
Zealousideal_Crow737@reddit
I went to an expensive school. Not an ivy, but I knew folks who either:
- Had an amazing scholarship
- were in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt
hoggmen@reddit
Thats the thing. If you do well in school and test well, its not that hard to get into a real good university. The problem is paying for it.
ND7020@reddit
This is a common fallacy - and actually a problematic one, since it discourages some top-tier poorer students from even applying. Many of the upper tier elite colleges in the U.S. are need-blind - if you get in and are genuinely poor, you aren’t going to pay much if at all (the cost burden in that situation is much more challenging for middle-class kids).
Imaginary_Ladder_917@reddit
Exactly. We are comfortably middle class and there’s no way we could afford to send our child to Harvard. We make too much money to qualify for tuition waiver but not nearly enough to make it possible without going into massive debt. My son was talking about how his friend was filling out scholarship applications and he was as well. I had to explain to him that while he could get some small scholarships, he was not going to get the full ride that his friend ended up getting to a local private university, simply based on the fact that his friend comes from a very poor family. I’m very happy that this friend got the scholarship he did. He’s a great kid and his family situation is not great. He deserves a chance.
gtne91@reddit
I number of the Ivies have banned student loans. Everyone is on a sliding tuition scale. That doesnt mean what you said isnt true, it still may be too much for a middle class family, but the massive debt option doesnt exist for those schools, as I understand it.
huazzy@reddit
But this is a rather "recent" initiative.
My wife got into most Ivy's but couldn't attend as they offered free tuition but not room and board, and she couldn't afford that either. So she ended up at Emory due to the Scholars Program which was one of the few schools at the time that offered a completely "free" attendance including a stipend.
Zealousideal_Crow737@reddit
It is still hard because it's competitive.
Every year at my high school our valedictorian was rejected from an Ivy.
Lower income comes at a disadvantage due to limited scholarships.
Harvard is 30% legacy.
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
Sounds like your high school isn't great.
Also it's not just grades.
Zealousideal_Crow737@reddit
That's not true. It's quite common across the board.
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
What is common? Kids getting rejected from Ivy League? No shit.
DigTheDunes@reddit
Schools like to have out of staters also. They can charge more, then brag that people come from all over to attend their school.
OpposumMyPossum@reddit
Legacy students have higher stats than other Ivy league student.
spontaneous-potato@reddit
The other thing that high schools don’t emphasize (at least when I was going to high school back in 2006-10) was that community college is a completely valid and more affordable option for the first two years of General Ed.
Transferring to a four-year after to get upper div classes is much, much more viable for a student because at that point, you got the same level of education for the first two years for a fraction of the price.
I ended up doing that and transferred into a UC in California (even though I got accepted into Berkeley and LA, I wanted to be closer to family), and people usually associate UCs as an “elite” public university that’s near equivalent the level of some Ivys or private unis.
HottestestestMess@reddit
This is very true, and also I think your experience transferring from a CC to an elite public school is an exception to the rule. This is something California does a much better job of than most places. That’s partly because UC schools are in a class of their own among public research universities. At private elite schools (Ivy League but also highly selective liberal arts colleges) they mostly consider transfer students from peer institutions. Some don’t even count your CC credits!
But having said that, lots of very solid state schools are glad to have community college grads (or even just credits from one). I took a ton of college classes in high school, so when I eventually went to college, I started as a sophomore. They took every single credit.
Full_Mission7183@reddit
The biggest problem with that is simply perception, when a 17 year old kid is imagining their first year of college it usually is not in a commuter community college.
It is the smarter path, but feel like kids stigmatize it.
I_Am_Mandark_Hahaha@reddit
My local community college offers graduates from the local school district FREE tuition. And if they complete the 2 years in community, they get automatic acceptance to the city's campus of the state university.
OpposumMyPossum@reddit
The thing is merit scholarships are very generous at many decent schools.
And Harvard and other Ivies? If you make what the average American does school is free for you.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Yup that's how it works, most of the ones in debt will never have a positive net worth either
late4dinner@reddit
About 70% of undergrad majors have a positive return on investment.
https://freopp.org/whitepapers/does-college-pay-off-a-comprehensive-return-on-investment-analysis/
Lower_Kick268@reddit
And how many of those are spending 150k to go to an Ivy League?
Zealousideal_Crow737@reddit
My parents were able to help me, if they couldn't, I would have gone to a state school and commuted from home.
On_my_last_spoon@reddit
I had a big scholarship for my elite (but not ivy) private school that made it possible for my middle class but comfortable parents to pay for my college.
I also had the advantage that they were able to send me to a private high school that made that scholarship possible.
I recognize how much of an advantage I had and *still* not as big as others get. Yet it was way more than most have.
benkatejackwin@reddit
Why do you think the private high school "made that scholarship possible?"
Honest_Road17@reddit
Sportsball.
On_my_last_spoon@reddit
For me, it was ballet
But the private school was a college prep school. It offered access to classes wouldn’t get at my public school. It meant I got additional AP classes. I had specialized teachers who knew how to get me into the elite colleges.
Honest_Road17@reddit
That's awesome for you. I'm sure you worked extremely hard to gain the proficiency required to get that scholarship. It probably wasn't easy.
damutecebu@reddit
Most? That's simply not accurate. I doubt you could even say "many."
Range-Shoddy@reddit
This is what I did. When I was done with grad school I was about $100k in debt. It was worth every penny to get away from my dead end hometown and get connections to better myself. They were paid off in 12 years. I met my spouse there and retired at 45. I would not have been able to do any of that had I stayed at my state school. The main part that sucked is being the poor kid on campus and just not getting to do extra stuff. If I’d been handed my education I wouldn’t have worked as hard to be successful so I’m grateful for that too. Us poor kids are a lot scrappier than people who never struggled (like my spouse, good lord they’re sheltered).
troopersjp@reddit
I grew up dirt poor and I went to an expense small liberal arts college…which was cheaper than going to my state school because the small liberal arts college had more money for scholarships.
I now teach at a top elite ivy adjacent university and my school has announced that any student who is admitted whose family makes less than $150k a year can attend for free. A number of the top rich universities have been adopting similar policies—I’m pretty sure Harvard has.
Here’s the thing. In my first round of college applications I didn’t apply to any expensive, elite schools because I assumed I wouldn’t be able to afford them. But I couldn’t really afford those state schools either. Then. I had a friend who told me: apply to the expensive schools because they have more money. If she hadn’t have told me that, I probably never would have applied to the expensive private schools my second round. And getting into the school I did changed my life.
manicpixidreamgirl04@reddit
Not super uncommon. 20% of students at Harvard receive the Pell Grant, which is for students with 'exceptional financial need'.
Apart_Insect_8859@reddit
I think it's more the cultural barrier for entry than the financial one that gets in the way.
Poor students have to fight against their home family culture, which may have a different set of values and life goals, AND they have to figure out elite academic culture, which is a world of its own.
College is hard enough to navigate without throwing in all the extra strangeness that comes from elite universities.
You see this happen a lot with poor/blue collar people getting white collar jobs and not understanding that it is a completely different culture, and ruining their chances to advance because they don't know how to walk the walk and talk the talk to fit in.
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
It is uncommon for anyone to attend a top-tier university. If it were, it would just be another school.
BadPAV3@reddit
What's really weird is that top-tier universities are actually cheaper than State schools that serve Good but not amazing students.
Most of the top schools like the Ivy's have enormous endowments, and all tuition is need-based. If your family makes 130k a year, it's far cheaper to go to Harvard or Yale or Cornell, then an in-state public university.
Krusty_Krab_Pussy@reddit
Yeah they'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't subsidize poorer but very gifted students.
This is why Minnesota implemented free tuition for families making under 80,000, the cost of paying for tuition is a tiny cost compared to the potential benefits it can bring
NotTurtleEnough@reddit
That’s a big reason so many parents choose to have lower salaries in rural areas rather than live in HCOL areas.
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
People are intentionally being poor in the off chance their child is smart enough to get into Harvard?
Krusty_Krab_Pussy@reddit
They were replying to my comment
Neat_Cat1234@reddit
Yes, but the rates are still very different between low income and higher income kids. I went to a low income school and every year we send about 5-10 kids to the top public university in the state, 1-2 kids to Stanford, and 1-2 kids to an Ivy. Compare that to the high income school in my area with similar class sizes that send 50+ kids to the top public per year (it’s considered their “safety”) and multiple times the amount that we do to the other elite schools.
Cold_Captain696@reddit
Presumably they're asking if it's relatively uncommon - i.e. is it less common than it is for students from wealthy backgrounds.
HooksNHaunts@reddit
Poor, smart, students can attend those universities without paying much, if anything.
BadPAV3@reddit
You've got to be far better than smart.
Low_Net_5870@reddit
Most of the top universities have scholarships that allow them to take any top performing student and not need that student to pay tuition.
That aside, the student must still be a top student. That means having the right performance, prerequisites, ability to get to class, ability to pay for any tutoring, and a k12 education to get in to the top schools. So it is still not skewed in favor of lower income students. The schools can have income diversity and look good for it without it being a level playing field.
HottestestestMess@reddit
And I’d be willing to bet that a good chunk of the low income students that get into Ivy League schools also got scholarships to go to private high schools. You need to be in the pipeline much earlier than the day you apply for college.
ef4@reddit
It’s true that top universities have disproportionately fewer people from poor backgrounds. But the barrier is not the direct costs. If you can actually get accepted to an elite school and have little money, you’re likely to get very good financial aid, up to entirely free tuition.
The barrier is in becoming a competitive candidate to get accepted in the first place. Wealthier families have a lot of ways of enhancing their kids education.
wounds-of-light@reddit
I grew up extremely poor, was orphaned at 13 and went to Yale. Many top schools offer extremely strong need-based financial aid for low income admits.
I met several other students from poor backgrounds at the Rural Students Alliance on campus (not all of them were poor, but many were). I will say, however, the background of Yale was overwhelmingly upper middle class to upper class - I did have a hard time fitting in at first, until I found my group.
HottestestestMess@reddit
Kudos to you! That can’t have been an easy journey, even after arriving at Yale! I grew up poor and eventually ended up in a grad program with mostly trust funded, Ivy League grads, and the class disparity was a lot to navigate.
17Girl4Life@reddit
If you have stellar ACT or SAT scores, top schools recruit you. My son got a 36 on the ACT and Yale and MIT recruited him hard. Harvard reached out once, but MIT invited us to a meeting where we live and we got something in the mail from Yale every week.
karmapolice63@reddit
Not common at all. Ivies and other "exclusive" schools will have scholarships to help those who they see have the potential to enrich their school and don't have the means to pay, but those aren't handed out to everyone.
It's not a stereotype that people who come from less well-off backgrounds face difficulty getting into top tier schools, let alone state schools sometimes. It extends beyond being able to afford college to the quality of education that's received at the grade school level. Economics vary much plays into education at all levels.
SassyMoron@reddit
At the very top all they care about is ability because they know they'll get so much in donations from the highest performing grads that tuition will come out in the wash. I went to one and there were definitely poor kids. It was fewer poor kids proportionally than the general population though because poor kids are unlikely to be prepared to succeed in an elite school yet at that point.
A lot of poor kids in the US go to community colleges, which are state run schools where you do the first two years for college for free or at much reduced rates. Then they transfer to a more elite school where they graduate. I'm taking classes at a community college rn and it's almost as good as the expensive elite school I went to twenty years ago. Many of the students are quite brilliant just poor and haven't been exposed to enough to succeed in four year school yet.
hnglmkrnglbrry@reddit
Yes. Most of the top schools are 100% needs met meaning your parents submit their income and liabilities and the school reduces the tuition to an affordable range which for many low income students is $0.
mpjjpm@reddit
More and more elite private ($$) universities in the US are offering full tuition coverage for anyone from a family with income below a certain threshold. At Harvard, tuition is free if your family income is $200,000 or less. At Stanford it’s $150,000. $75,000 at Cornell. Just as examples.
So, in theory, tuition cost shouldn’t be a barrier anymore. In reality, kids from low-income backgrounds have a harder time getting into elite schools because they don’t have the same resources to boost their application. They don’t have application coaches or a laundry list of expensive extracurriculars. Often the elite universities aren’t even on their radar. I went to a really good public high school with a fairly average, middle class student population. The big name elite schools weren’t even in the radar as options. Most of my classmates went to public universities.
Frosty_Employment171@reddit
I have a friend that has spent her life studying this. Her conclusion? Not only not common but that top tier universities in the USA actively put effort into denying entry to low income White students. They do especially recruit racial minority (Black) students regardless of academic skills.
Lallner@reddit
The majority of undergraduate students at Harvard receive financial aid, with 55% of students qualifying for need-based Harvard scholarships. About 25% of families pay nothing (tuition, fees, room, and board) to send their children to Harvard.
Usual-Reputation-154@reddit
Low income students actually have a better chance at being able to afford college than the middle class. There is need-based financial aid (FAFSA) you can apply for. The ultra rich will pay directly, the lower class get financial aid, and the middle class gets nothing and has to take out student loans
Working_Elephant5344@reddit
It’s somewhat common, but not super common. A lot of the top schools make themselves accessible by providing very generous aid to low-income students, but only a small portion of those students are offered admission.
sideshow--@reddit
I went to a top tier university for undergrad and another top tier university for grad school. For undergrad, most were higher income and higher achieving. For grad school most were high achieving and may or may not have been high income.
CFBCoachGuy@reddit
It’s very rare. Most Ivy League schools will actually offer full tuition scholarships to students whose families make under a certain amount. The problem is getting in. Poorer students attend worse high schools and are often less prepared for college in general- much less a place like Harvard or Yale. There are other issues that college students face that are tougher for those in poverty: cost of living, being away from family and the support system. Also there’s the problem of learning the “soft skills” that translate college success with career success
Sea-Bill78@reddit
It is very hard to get into those universities no matter what. However, colleges like Stanford etc do offer almost free education to the top students from financially challenged families. So out of almost 60,000 people who applies to Stanford? If you are in the top 3% and get in, your chances of getting some sort of financial aid from the school is 46%. So almost 1.5%. You decide whether this is common or not.
ABelleWriter@reddit
This is pretty easy information to find, as colleges in the US have these stats public.
At Harvard, 4.5% of their students are low income, 45% of the stendent body is there tuition free (family income of under $100,000).
It's incredibly hard to get into these schools (unlike tv, where every small town public school kid is getting into Yale, Brown, and NYU) Harvard's acceptance rate is 4.2%, of those 4.2%, 4.5% are low income. Harvard has a out 2000 new students every year, 82 of them are low income.
Underprivileged kids have a harder time getting the education you need for schools like that, along with the extra curriculars, volunteering, and internships that a lot of colleges expect now (my daughter had to submit a resume when she applied to her first pick college, a state school, 3 years ago)
chile-pica@reddit
No
LavenderPearlTea@reddit
It’s not common. Even though the top schools have generous aid for lower income families, money means access to better schools, tutors, summer camps, coaches, extracurriculars, trips, etc.
bangbangracer@reddit
It's very uncommon. It's not impossible, but it's almost extremely unlikely.
-Boston-Terrier-@reddit
Top universities like Harvard, Stanford, and Yale have huge endowments where lower income students frequently pay nothing. It's hard for all students to get into a school like that but, generally, your family's income isn't much of a factor.
alwaysboopthesnoot@reddit
They do. Not common. But if they can be admitted due to high exam scores or top performance in high school then typically the tuition is free and they have to pay $10-20,000 each year, for 4 years, for room and board costs—unless in extremely unusual circumstance, like they are one of the country’s top tier athletes in a sport that this top school wants to maintain a top ranking in, or they are an unusually sought-after applicant in a field of study the school is best known for.
Legacy admits and children of full time school employees might receive discounted or free tuition, but would likely still pay for room and board. It depends on the applicant or the school, but less well-off lower and lower middle class applicants often can and do get admittance, then get some financial aid from the school, work while going to school, then borrow the rest of the tuition money through student loans.
tuition, fees, room and board at Harvard next year would cost you $345,000 for four years. Not many people can afford that by paying it in full. Even at half price due to scholarships, grants, work-study programs, etc. So, even if youre a top student, but a lot poorer than the average student, you will likely pick another, less costly but still very good school to attend.
it would not be common to receive both tuition and room and board fees, plus activity fees, health care, parking permits, the cost of apps and texts or books, in-full paid for you, for all 4 years of study.
it does happen and schools do give a lot of aid to students in those circumstances. But the everyday, average poorest kids with average grades or average backgrounds?
No.
Ok-Energy-9785@reddit
Very uncommon
tn00bz@reddit
There are advantages and disadvantages. I teach at a low achieving title 1 school in California, most of my students are the children of immigrants and English is not their first language, but I have a few who go to top universities every year.
Although they can't buy their way in, nor do they recieve legacy admission, low income students do have some advantages. First. Low income students do not have to pay to apply to iluniversities so they can apply to as many schools as they want. Second, they usually have better admissions essays that discuss how theyve overcome adversity. And finally, universities do like to have a diverse student body. Those things give them some advantages, and mean that attending a top school isnt an impossibility.
Interesting-Brick-25@reddit
Back in the early 90s before most of the top schools actually advertised offering no tuition to lower income students, I graduated from a T10 school with about $10k in loans and nothing out of pocket. The loans were only because I did study abroad. Today, in the same situation, I would probably leave with no loans, plus they would give me a laptop, money for a semester abroad, finance an unpaid summer internship, etc. If you can get in from a lower income household, attending a T20 may end up being cheaper than attending a public school just because they can offer better financial aid.
allflanneleverything@reddit
Prep courses, tutors, even taking the standardized tests are all expensive. Rich kids also tend to be on the track where these things are a given. So yes it’s harder to be accepted if you’re lower income.
NoForm5443@reddit
It is uncommon for everyone (for example, the Ivies have like a 5% acceptance rate, and their students are less than 1% of undergrad students; only about 2/3 of HS graduates directly enroll in college).
It is much harder for lower income students, because they go to worse schools on average and because they don't usually have access to exam prep courses etc
Most of the top private colleges offer full scholarships to low-income students (and even not that low, I think Harvard does for families under 100k), but getting in is harder
Krystalgoddess_@reddit
I went to a low income high school, it was not common at all. We had about 3-5 students that went to top schools with scholarship money
Special-Reindeer-178@reddit
In America, college loans arent dissolvable through bankruptcy.
Banks and lending agencies being fully aware of this, will hand out 100k+ loans to literally anyone, because they know its guaranteed return, even if the recipient faces bankruptcy and ends up in a camp under a bridge.
So in actuality, poor people dont need to work harder to get to a top tier school, as long as they have the grades, they can take out a 400k dollar loan no questions asked
MamaMidgePidge@reddit
One reason I think it's harder for poor kids to get in is that they have likely gone to less competitive high schools, which can lead to lower test scores, fewer extra curricular activities, potentially less involved parents.
That's not the case for every low income kid. Just a general large- group generalization.
JobberStable@reddit
Low income students who have “high scores” will be offered many scholarships.
The argument would be, the rich kid has more resources to get those “high scores”
itijara@reddit
I went to an Ivy (Cornell) and worked with a few people there from low-income backgrounds. I would say that it is much more difficult to have the grades and SAT scores needed to attend a top-tier university if you are from a poor school district in the U.S. and don't have the resources for things like SAT tutoring. However, financial aid makes it possible for those rare students who find a way to get in to a top school to stay there, financially.
That being said, there is definitely a culture shock and it can be very difficult for students whose friends are going out on weekends to expensive clubs/restaurants or who have fancy clothes, computers, cars, etc. to feel like they have a place. Even academics can be difficult as they may not have anyone who has been to university in their family/friend circle to help them understand things like selecting courses for a major, applying to research positions, etc.
IMO, the obstacles for people from low-income backgrounds start well before applying and tend to be much more than just money.
OpposumMyPossum@reddit
About a quarter of Ivies have students from families that make lower than average.
JimBones31@reddit
Getting into them is not the problem they face, it's paying for them.
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
Ivy Leagues have some good programs for low income who are accepted, but it's not like they are accepting everyone who applies.
JimBones31@reddit
Of course they are not. They also aren't accepting everyone who applies from wealthier backgrounds.
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
Bless your heart that you think legacies are getting denied.
JimBones31@reddit
I don't think they are.
Bless your heart for your wild assumptions.
Avinson1275@reddit
No but if a top tier college, especially private ones, really wants you to be one of their students they will make sure you get plenty of financial aid to attend. Same for graduate schools.
Gallahadion@reddit
I come from a low(er)-income family and went to some very good schools (thank goodness for financial aid). It's definitely possible, though I don't know for sure how common it is.
Arleare13@reddit
It's not common for anyone to attend a top university, but low-income students with good enough academic qualifications aren't at a particular disadvantage in terms of getting in. Actually those schools are really big on admitting first-generation college students and other low-income groups, and they can usually attend totally free. All of the Ivies and similar schools now give full tuition scholarships for students with family income below a pretty generous amount (like, even as high as $200k/year).
TsundereLoliDragon@reddit
Days without Harvard being mentioned in a post about college - 0
Tommy_Wisseau_burner@reddit
It’s uncommon for most people to attend a top college… they’re stupid competitive
rr90013@reddit
The top schools are very generous with their financial aid and making sure students they admit can graduate debt-free. They also make a point of admitting a class with lots of socioeconomic diversity. In absolute terms it’s still a very small number of people because those top schools are so small.
dan_blather@reddit
There's a lot of working and lower middle class students at Cornell University, one of the Ivies.
Most colleges and universities in the US have scholarship and grant programs for lower income and BIPOC students, that cover part (or all) student expenses.
The City of Buffalo's "Say Yes" program pays for undergraduate tuition (prorated based on length of city residency) for most of the top tier universities in the US.
That being said, I grew up lower middle class, and attended SUNY (New York state) schools for mu undergrad and grad.
Wunktacular@reddit
Keep in mind that expensive schools exist in very expensive neighborhoods.
Let's say you get a one in a million chance free ride scholarship that covers 100% of your tuition as a student from a low income working class family, AND it gives you free dormitory access so you don't have to worry about housing, PLUS it covers all of your books.
You still have to buy groceries or meals at the university cafeteria, and that's probably going to cost $100 per week even if you're being quite frugal. And if you want any recreation at all? If you want to spend time outside school with your friends, or return home to visit family, if you want to eat out at a local restaurant, all of that is going to be prohibitively expensive due to the area you're staying in.
You'd be signing up for possibly that roughest 4-6 years of your life as an American unless you were truly impoverished.
sloppyredditor@reddit
It's a stereotype for a reason - many of the students in these universities are "legacy," meaning their parents/grandparents attended and have made donations since. This helps their chances, while those who aren't legacy and/or cannot afford it won't be there.
Don't get me wrong - I've heard convincing stories that even celebrities' kids need to put in a lot of effort - but the barriers to entry are very real.
State schools get flak for easier acceptance, but IME the flak is not justified. They produce brilliant graduates and it's still not easy to be a student there.
SysError404@reddit
Extremely uncommon.
Most people that grow up poor or low-income, likely have parents that never attended college. So right from the start, those kids have no idea what they need to get into an ultra competitive University.
Then there is the fact that those students wont have access to tutors or people that make a career out of paving the pathway for students to get into Ivy league schools.
Most kids will graduate high school and go off to a Community College or State University where they will either drop out or complete their degrees. Even few of them, will go on to achieve an advanced education beyond a 4 year degree.
On_my_last_spoon@reddit
Poor and marginalized people have to work 10x as hard as rich people to get anywhere. The Ivy League is purposefully restrictive on admission. They want to keep the rich people rich.
Accomplished_Mix7827@reddit
Not at all, no. Theoretically, anyone can get in on merit. In practice, it's almost exclusively rich kids.
SueNYC1966@reddit
My daughter went to Brooklyn Tech. She saw many of her Los income friends go to top school, one of them were undocumented. He went to MIT on a full ride.
skadi_shev@reddit
“Common” is probably not the word, but it’s not unheard of. People often use some combination of scholarships, grants, and financial aid.
Dontfollahbackgirl@reddit
The top tier schools all have small number of poor people. If a student can truly excel academically & in life out of a poor neighborhood, it actually increases their chances of standing out in the applicant pool. The top schools have great financial aid. It’s easier to attend if you clearly can’t afford it than if you’ve got just enough money to actually pay the exorbitant tuition.
It’s harder to get a great education, and be competitive & secure coming out of a poor neighborhood. A scholarship is great, but if you live in Missouri, you still have to scrape together money you get back and forth to Harvard or Stanford.
The number of available seats to qualified applicants is so small that it i’d a challenge for anyone to get in, except for the children of rich donors.
CountChoculasGhost@reddit
According to Harvard, the average familial income of someone attending a top school is $130,000. Which is over double the median income. So the vast majority of students come from at least moderately wealthy families.
madogvelkor@reddit
While it's next to impossible to get into a top university, income is not a direct barrier. They all offer free tuition for any family making under like $100,000 or sometimes more. Yale has zero cost if your family makes under $100,000 and free tuition under $200,000. About 30% of their undergraduate students are considered low income.
But wealthier students do have an advantage -- they usually went to better schools, had access to tutors, had better educated parents, and had family pressure to go to a top school.
But keep in mind only about 20,000 students are admitted each year into all 8 of the Ivy League schools. That's out of 2.5 million new students going to college in the US each year. So only about 0.8% of college students go to the top 8 private universities.
Major_Enthusiasm1099@reddit
Yeah because you can get alot of federal aid if you qualify. The way you determine if you qualify is by doing a FAFSA(Free application for federal student aid).
I come from a low income house so I applied and got the money. I stayed at home and commuted to school by bus, eventually got a car and a part time job though.
rrsafety@reddit
Summer classes at Northeastern $39,000
Pink_Raku@reddit
I feel like the really smart poor kids have some advantages, they typically just aren't aware of scholarships, need based programs, etc. Especially if you have a bad high school counselor. Middle class smart kids get left behind for sure because they don't qualify for any help but are really just living in paycheck to paycheck households and parents are too busy to put in the work to get scholarships.
Give-Me-Plants@reddit
It definitely happens, but top schools like that are often skewed heavily toward the wealthy.
A wealthy kid is more likely to have access to better private schools K-12, tutoring, exam prep, extracurriculars, etc. Parents with better social connections really help with admission, too. (If your dad, grandpa, great-grandpa, all went to the school and your family donated money, it’s gonna be a lot easier).
This doesn’t even factor in the ability to pay for the elite school. A lower income student will be at a major disadvantage here, too.
wiarumas@reddit
Definitely not common… but not unheard of either.
pgcotype@reddit
It's uncommon for anyone to attend top tier schools, or those called "public Ivy League" for that matter. It means a public university where students get an education comparable to an Ivy League school like the ones you mentioned.
No_Consideration_339@reddit
No. Not common. It's honestly not common for low income folks to attend college at all, with the exception of community colleges. Colleges and universities are mostly for the middle and upper classes.
Duck_Diddler@reddit
Top tier? Like Ivy League? No, low income students rarely get it. Shit, most people that apply don’t get in
mcaffrey@reddit
Yes it is more difficult and they have to work harder, but yes, there will always be a decent number of low income students at top universities. The admissions offices at those schools sometimes even look at it as a positive on your application.
Might end up with huge student loans though.
ImplicitEmpiricism@reddit
it happens.
and often once you get in everything is free. I have a friend from my public high school who took a flyer on yale, and got in, and because his parents made under their income limit he got a full scholarship for room, housing and meals. he did have to work on campus part time but it wasn’t significant.
Turbulent_Group_6616@reddit
I know a younger man who transfered from rural community college to Harvard on a full ride.
pinniped90@reddit
Not common.
But they do admit a few and then market the hell out of it.
msackeygh@reddit
Common? No. Is it unusual! Also, no.
MonteCristo85@reddit
Well, yeah. Rich kids have (generally) more resources so more opportunity to perform well and have the kind of resume these schools want to see. And even if they manage to do all that, rich people usually have connections with other rich people that can help open doors.