Monitor that can survive temperature extremes and swings?
Posted by derekcz@reddit | buildapc | View on Reddit | 44 comments
Hello, I volunteer at a local observatory and we have a period-correct early 2000s computer operating the telescope, including a massive Samsung CRT. It's really cool and when you walk into the observatory dome you can pretend it's 2008 and that there's no such thing as Sam Altman, but we are really space constrained and would like to replace the CRT with a flat screen monitor. Seems simple enough, but after thinking about it for a bit I'm not sure how long an LCD screen could survive there.
There is no indoor heating so in winter the temperatures can probably dip close to -10°C, and in summer because it's the highest point in the building we get a greenhouse effect that can probably take it over 40°C.
I have seen LCDs that just turn yellow or purple when exposed to heat like this for a prolonged time, and panels that developed dead/faded spots when operating in cold like that. On top of the long term temperature changes the screen would also have to survive being turned on in like -5°C and heating up to its working temperature.
Is there some monitor technology that would be particularly well suited (or least bothered) by this? Obviously something like MicroLED that doesn't have liquid or organic layers but that's not realistic yet. Or is this an actual niche where the CRT is already the best pick?
SgtBaxter@reddit
There are lots of industrial monitor companies or outdoor monitor companies that supply units that meet your needs.
Look up Advantech, Winmate, and Planar Helium (they do outdoor panels that heat themselves in cold)
greggm2000@reddit
This. Ofc it won’t be cheap, but off-the-shelf consumer screens aren’t going to get it done, they aren’t designed for it.
Also, that CRT, if it still has a good image, could be worth a lot, bc CRT offers benefits that current LCD tech can’t match. Working 1080p and better CRTs are rare.
Finnegan482@reddit
Like what?
ToughHardware@reddit
O, response rate and motion blur. Tech companies want to sell you downgrades. the CRT did not have the issues that all of the 240HZ sales material they focus on today.
greggm2000@reddit
Motion clarity is a HUGE one. It's so much better on a CRT compared to even OLED, it's not even funny. Nvidia Pulsar (for those very few screens that are out yet that support it) kinda mimics how CRT's do their thing, is as close as you can get rn.
derekcz@reddit (OP)
It's a Samsung syncmaster which can do slightly better than 1080p in my testing, there were two of them at the observatory, one got retired and I kept it. As I replied to someone else here, I put it up on Facebook marketplace for free as long as someone picks it up because I didn't want to go through the trouble of arranging shipment. I got into multiple conversations with people interested who all ended up scheduling a pickup date and then ghosting me after I've already changed my plans to make sure I would be home. It was pretty annoying, and I don't understand why someone would do that with something they could get for free, so far it's just sitting on my table being a secondary monitor for podcasts and youtube and watching the odd 4:3 piece of content I come across.
greggm2000@reddit
Heh I'd probably take it off your hands, but I'm almost 100% certain you aren't local to me. I'd love to use a CRT again.. but only if I could do 1080p content on it.
ToughHardware@reddit
a view important facts that would help us determine the best thing for you.
First - awesome write up, you sound like a fun person who knows how to have a good time.
next - what screen size you looking for? and any particular resolution or input requirements? VGA is dying, but i am guess that is what you need, or does it have DVI/HDMI output?
aspect ratio - can you do widescreen, or you need 4:3 (oldschool). this can be important if you dont want the image to stretch, or waste half the screen in black space.
Just kinda guessing here, but this is 15 inch (4:3) with VGA input and meeting the temp requirements you have. But also note that this is a TOUCH enabled display, which may not be what you want. https://teguar.com/product/td-45-15/
UnderstandingSimple7@reddit
For extreme temperature environments look at IPS panels — they handle temperature variance better than VA. LG and Samsung commercial displays are built tougher than consumer monitors. Avoid OLED for that use case.
-UserRemoved-@reddit
Mate, we're volunteer enthusiasts that help people learn how to build a personal PC. Edge case professional applications are out of our wheelhouse, we aren't going to know about hardware designed for extreme environments, our PCs run in ~72F/22C temps. Contact an OEM or monitor manufacturer to inquire about their offerings/technologies.
Shot-Possible1317@reddit
We help people living in extreme parts of the world to build PCs as well. This is a easy recommend for his use case. Just need to get a Rugged LCD monitor or Rugged Laptop in general.
derekcz@reddit (OP)
i mean i got some pretty useful info, and this is far from a professional environment, if it was then i wouldn't be asking for help on reddit and there wouldn't be a 30 year old computer in that spot
visor841@reddit
I would actually argue that professional environments are more likely to have old legacy hardware, in fact it's probably why people are making the (incorrect) assumption that you're professional.
scix@reddit
This has never stopped a redditor from having strong opinions and suggestions before, why start now?
JamesLahey08@reddit
You never know what kind of jobs people here have though.
Shot-Possible1317@reddit
You are looking for a "rugged" solution. You can get Rugged laptops, this is what I would recommend as a one size fits all solution for your entire replacement. Just ensure its got the correct ports you need.
Rugged solutions are meant for outdoor enviroment work, ranging from outdoor in general to construction etc. I was tired of my phones dying for stupid reasons so I bought a rugged cell phone. Never needed another cell phone since. It's also a awesome conversation starter at parties, throwing my phone into the swimming pool deep end and asking someone to phone me. Then everyone can hear the phone ringing then asking one of the kids to dive it out for me.
So when looking for computer parts or entire laptop, ensure to look for "Rugged" versions
Ok_Bite_9633@reddit
That’s like average desert temperatures. Most monitors survive that easy.
derekcz@reddit (OP)
Humidity and condensation is the problem really. I'm not sure what makes the crt more resilient because you'd expect the high voltage electronics to fail sooner, but so far it's been more solid than LCDs exposed to the same kind of environment.
PersnickityPenguin@reddit
I would imagine that the CRT would be much more resilient to the heat and humidity due to how they are constructed - is an electron beam gun with some glass.
Carnildo@reddit
CRTs being power-hungry means they're also self-heating. When the monitor is 10-20 degrees above ambient temperature, it's really hard for condensation to form.
derekcz@reddit (OP)
that's a good point, and I guess with an LCD you can tell it's struggling when the panel gets sluggish especially in low temperatures, on a CRT the same stress in the electronics would be invisible, maybe it's literally on the verge of failure as we speak
I_Dunno_Its_A_Name@reddit
Ask this question on the LTT forum. LTT has an environmental chamber. I doubt they tested your exact use case, but it’s worth a shot.
https://linustechtips.com/forum/99-ltt-official/
IM_OK_AMA@reddit
I have an ~2013 vizio that has been out on my patio for the last 5 years with nothing but a plastic cover on it when it's not in use. Doesn't quite get as cold as OP is asking about but it gets much hotter.
Any monitor will be fine.
PsychologicalGlass47@reddit
Desert setting is nice given the nonexistent humidity, too
skylinestar1986@reddit
40°c isn't hot for a monitor. In my country, ambient of > 33°c is norm.
theRealtechnofuzz@reddit
I would look up industrial application monitors. Especially ones designed to work outside. You'll have the best luck with these. Most industrial application electronics provide operating temperatures. I just bought an industrial application network switch for my attic.
ChuckDiefhead@reddit
If it’s an option try Beetronics. They produce great industrial monitors for those temperature ranges. I used them in my setups for outdoor trucks. The prices are also reasonable just not sure about shipping and customs cost
IllSeaworthiness1348@reddit
Are you serious? -10 to 40 degree Celsius are normal temperatures in more than 50% of the habitable world. The middle east get sometimes 50 degree Celsius and i am yet to see a crt in the middle east
greggm2000@reddit
CRTs haven't been produced for lots of years now, that's why.
Carnildo@reddit
Most monitors are only rated for that when they're powered down. Mine, for example, is rated -20 C to +60 C non-operating, but only 0 C to 40 C when powered on.
derekcz@reddit (OP)
do you think people have the inside of their house freezing and do a full cold boot of their computer in that environment often? have you ever used a laptop outside in winter? obviously the problem is the fast temperature changes and associated condensation, the screen is at rest freezing and then everything has to rapidly heat up
ArtVandelay32@reddit
I’ve seen standard dell monitors living in pretty harsh conditions for work.
I’d get the cheapest name brand that you can and just be prepared to swap it when it dies. Screens are cheap
derekcz@reddit (OP)
Yep I'm sure if I just put in any old 4:3 Acer panel it would do the trick for a while, I just want to make sure it can last for as long as possible because I don't want it failing during a session that's being held by someone else while I'm not there. I was thinking maybe there's some commonly known behavior that makes specifically VA or TN or IPS panels better suited
Early_Koala327@reddit
You need an industrial grade monitor.
But is it possible to move the computer out of the room? Maybe to a climate controlled room nearby?
derekcz@reddit (OP)
The computer is in a different room, but the display has to be by the telescope because it displays the guidance software. And by nature that room can't be climate controlled (unless it's entirely rebuilt which a nonprofit volunteer observatory can't do)
I_Push_Buttonz@reddit
Does monitor need to remain fixed in one spot? If not, perhaps a portable monitor and wireless HDMI could be an option. Pull it out when you need it and store it somewhere with less adverse conditions when you don't.
Key-Employee3584@reddit
You could build a little radiant heat unit/box for the LCD/LED with an incandescent bulb. You have to run some kind of power out to the display anyways. Or better yet, build a small metal pipe frame unit for the LED and run a over-the-counter 120v self-regulating pipe warmer to keep the pipe warm during your cold snaps. And then a fan for when it needs to be cooled during the summer. I think your biggest problem will be if there's a signal interference problem with any induced electrical/magnetic fields or if the little bit of heat you introduce will effect the scope.
That_Lad_Chad@reddit
Whatever you do, don't throw away the CRT! There are a lot of people who would love to have it and be willing to pay for it (me)
As someone else mentioned, if you want something rated that durable, it will likely cost you a good amount over a normal monitor. I'll pm you more info
derekcz@reddit (OP)
We've already removed one syncmaster crt, I took it and put it up on Facebook for free which lead to about 10 conversations with people who said they would pick it up and then ghosted me (on a free item?), so now I'm just using it as a second monitor with my intel arc b580.
9okm@reddit
List it for $5. You've gotta weed out the people who want free stuff - they're the absolute worst. I buy and sell a lot of electronics.
PsychologicalGlass47@reddit
Plasma TVs are effectively indestructible in the eyes of temperatures. Just keep a dehumidifier or spot heater literally ON TOP OF it, as at those temps you'll get a lot of condensation.
jamvanderloeff@reddit
Heating a box behind the monitor is pretty cheap for avoiding cold issues, and 40 degrees generally shouldn't be a problem.
Using a CRT is always running a heater too
Errorr404@reddit
I think most monitor operating temps are tested from 0c to 40c, non operating slightly better. IPS would be the best choice I think as the liquid crystals are pretty linear in voltage control as they don't have to do the extra rotation VA panels need so this might slightly influence operating temps although that will vary a lot. The issue is that not many monitors are sealed so humidity might be the issue. I would look into rugged LCD monitors, your best chance although I can't tell you how it will respond to specific conditions so that will need a bit of research.
9okm@reddit
I agree with u/-UserRemoved-
Though, in this kind of situation, I'd buy the cheapest piece of crap off the shelf and just plan to replace it every couple years if it dies/degrades too far.