Is soldered LPDDR on laptops really about the thinner form factor or planned obsolescence?

Posted by x_andi01@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 47 comments

We keep seeing more laptops ship with soldered LPDDR, even in larger chassis where a traditional SODIMM slot would physically fit. Manufacturers claim it enables thinner designs and lower power consumption, but the power difference between LPDDR5X and a decent SODIMM implementation is often single digit percentages in real world use.

The real outcome is that a laptop with 16GB soldered becomes e-waste the moment 16GB stops being enough, which for productivity workloads is already starting to happen. You can't upgrade, you can't repair, and if that single memory chip fails, the whole motherboard is junk.

I get it for ultrabooks like the XPS 13 or MacBook Air where every millimeter matters. But why is this creeping into 15-inch workstations and gaming laptops? Framework has shown you can have repairable memory without a massive thickness penalty.

Are consumers actually demanding thinner laptops over upgradability, or are manufacturers quietly eliminating the secondary market and forcing higher upfront configurations? Curious what people think about where the line should be drawn.

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0xe1e10d68@reddit

Not true. With enough determination a bad actor can bypass any protections with physical access; but hardening makes it a significantly bigger investment of effort.

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-Y0-@reddit

That's like breaking into a vault by trying to open the vault door (opening and installing RAM), rather than entering the creaky back door that is accessible to anyone (USB).

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username-invalid-s@reddit

rather than entering the creaky back door that is accessible to anyone (USB).

You're wrong. There are many protections in place that render this method infeasible. Current security landscape isn't the same as you'd see in movies.

You'd need to bypass antimalware protection, kernel-level protection, firmware (DMA) protection, you'd need to have social engineering skills, account isolation, administrator escalation, exploit and vulnerabilities.

Trust me, the memory chip itself is an open door. But manufacturers have been trying hard to finally encrypt and solder these things.

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Sopel97@reddit

encryption is orthogonal

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username-invalid-s@reddit

Your point is? You can't argue with physics. By the time the attacker removes the chip, the data is already lost due to temperature variances.

Also, how do you exactly spoof DRAM???

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Sopel97@reddit

By the time the attacker removes the chip, the data is already lost due to temperature variances.

and in the case of sodimm it's lost due to lack of refresh

how do you exactly spoof DRAM?

do I need to know? you're the one proposing these speculative attacks

What about encryption is orthogonal?

what about encryption requires soldered memory?

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username-invalid-s@reddit

Also, when memory is physically attacked, the computer is always turned off. The act of turning off the computer wipes data from memory. By the time you desolder the chip, you already lost data due to variances in temperature.

So yes, it's not true that every physical access defeats security measures. Especially in soldered memory.

ICC-u@reddit

I thought the reason was the tolerances for the memory didn't allow a socket, solder was required to ensure a high speed connection.

Also security. Soldered memory is almost infeasible to attack.

If you have physical access you've already kinda lost.

Not really. If your computer is turned off, all data residing in memory are effectively wiped off (physics). Compared to soldered memory, SODIMM slots can be frozen so that data could be recovered.

Applying heat to desolder memory would effectively erase the data before you could even get your hands on the memory chip.

nothing is preventing the attacker from using a chip with persistent memory

That's why you can turn on computer and insert an evil USB.

Then that's a completely different vector. There are many reasons why an attacker would choose to attack physically. If you're using a SODIMM memory, that will be very feasible.

There are also many ways why an evil USB isn't feasible, especially in high-security environments.

brandmeist3r@reddit

You could still freeze the soldered memory chips

But guess what, apply heat to desolder the the chips...

steak4take@reddit

God that’s a pantload - most memory attacks such as row and hammer are based on the fact that regardless of form factor or interface memory uses most of the same principles that were developed during its inception at IBM in the 50s.

But then, with row and hammer exploits, if I'm not mistaken, to extract data, you'd need to know the exact memory chip, column and row the data resides.

The way processors place data and code in memory are proprietary and sometimes, random. Even if you're the firmware, you interface memory contiguously when in reality, it's in different locations. The only way to know is that if you're the processor

Scary on paper, almost impossible in practice.

309_Electronics@reddit

But you can still scrape away the traces or find support components that route some signals.

Not really. With more memory packaged into processor, there are no traces to intercept. It is significantly harder to modify the chip because of complex manufacturing techniques and proprietary pin mapping. Before you get your hands on the data, you've already destroyed it by modifying the chip (if you could manage to do it, that is).

Especially with complex processor packaging techniques, that is very infeasible. Memory integrated to the processor lacks traces that could be used to reroute signals. By the time you physically modified the chip, data is already lost by variances in temperature.

Wait_for_BM@reddit

Connectors have signal integrity issues. Beyond certain speed, it can't be used.

https://resources.altium.com/p/cross-board-signal-integrity-issues

Most signal integrity problems in multi-board systems trace back to boundaries, not to the controlled-impedance runs between them. A connector launch, a cable transition, or a flex-to-rigid junction introduces impedance discontinuities, reference changes, and skew that accumulate across the channel.

The governing constraint is that every high-speed channel must be budgeted as a complete path from transmitter to receiver, including every transition between boards, connectors, cables, and flex segments. When boundary ownership is ambiguous or undocumented, each board team optimizes locally while no one owns the transitions. The result is a channel that meets no one's impedance or skew budget at the system level.

Darkoftheabyss@reddit

It’s form factor and performance first and foremost. But I bet no manufacturer is sad that it also very much timebombs the laptops. ;)

yabucek@reddit

Is RAM really the bottleneck though?

I know like half of the people on this sub learned how to open up a py by upgrading their family PC's RAM to play Minecraft, but in a more modern world the RAM capacity is creeping up relatively slowly. If you buy a 32GB laptops today, the CPU will be woefully outdated and the battery will be dead 5 times over by the time you're struggling for RAM.

I don’t think anyone is implying it’s the primary bottleneck. So when I say performance I mean performance of the RAM in and of itself. That might not translate to overall laptop performance in all instances.

On the other hand a lot of laptops use integrated GPUs where RAM bandwidth can be a major bottleneck. So it’s all about usage scenario.

lifestealsuck@reddit

What about the 16gb or even 8gb soldered ram laptop ?

You shouldn't buy those in 2026

twaxana@reddit

I blame JavaScript JIT compilers and people shipping websites as applications with the whole of chromium under the hood.

Most things you do require more resources because they are poorly programmed data harvesters.

Kougar@reddit

LPDDR is not the same as DDR, they use different kind of memory controller, signaling, and bus configuration. This is why you won't find LPDDR5X in a SODIMM form factor, it's not compatible. LPCAMM2 and CAMM2 options are becoming a thing, but again not cross-compatible.

LPDDR does use less power to operate and it's baked into the changes made to the signaling and refresh rates all the way up to differences in the controller. It's also optimized to fit in smaller form factors, and lastly it offers minor cost savings over regular memory simply from doing away with sockets, board complexity, and manual labor of having someone install modules and then validate the system. Soldering memory during board production simplifies manufacturing and allows the memory to be validated at the same time as the board.

As for it creeping into larger machines, two reasons. One is that the DRAM market is completely screwed up and companies can save money going with LPDDR options. The other is LPDDR tends to offer more bandwidth in some configurations. LPDDR5T-9600 is already higher bandwidth than anything you will find in a SODIMM form factor. The entire reason CAMM2 is becoming a thing is because the SODIMM is a terribly inefficient configuration that requires a lot of cost complexity at higher frequencies, and even then it's too problematic. Ergo, why 9600 rated LPDDR5T is being used in gaming machines.

Another thing is when using extremely high speeds like 8533 or 9600, LPDDR is guaranteed to work at those speed bins when soldered to the board. The BIOS will be specifically tuned and there won't be socket problems, module tolerance problems, or the guaranteed signal degradation that memory slots incur.

kilqax@reddit

In addition to what others have said, if you're bound to manufacture half of your boards with soldered memory (for the ultrathins), manufacturing all of them with soldered memory is just straight up better for production streamlining

Acrobatic_Fee_6974@reddit

SODIMM is a dead standard. The signal integrity is tapped out at DDR5 5600. We are in the middle of the transition to LPCAMM2, which will give the best of repairability, efficiency and performance for laptops going forward.

Soldered LPDDR will always be around in cheap devices because it's an easy way to lower costs without sacrificing what most customers care about (unfortunately, only a tiny fraction of users will ever even open their device let alone repair it). But SODIMM is done. I expect both AMD and Intel will drop support for standard DDR memory on their IMCs for their mobile SKUs in the not too distant future to focus on getting the most out of LPDDR memory.

260X@reddit

It's planned obsolescence.

Just look at Apple if anyone wants proof.

Everyone is writing songs about Macbook Neo and dancing about it, but no one ever bothers to bring up its paltry 8GB RAM.

Those moaning about muh "signal integrity" either work for these companies or are just mindless husks who drink up everything companies tell them.

lazyhustlermusic@reddit

Can you get SODIMMs faster than 5600? You seem more about the conspiracy.

duidui232323@reddit

LPCAMM2 is up to 9600

Hour_Firefighter_707@reddit

6400 were shipping in laptops last year

That would be enough for me, I do not care about a little speed increase if I can have replaceable DIMM.

chrkv@reddit

RAM speed is very important for integrated graphics. It still could not meter for you, but it would for some.

Agreed, but they could also ship CPU+GPU combo with dedicated graphics HBM2 on die or they could bring back MXM.

thewafflecollective@reddit

Soldered RAM allows manufacturers overcharge you for RAM upgrades, knowing you have no choice but to pay them instead of buying your own. Sure soldering also saves space and allows for better signal integrity (and faster ram clocks), but I think the main reason is better profits. Often you'll see a base laptop model sold at a reasonable price but crippled by a lack of RAM (e.g. 8GB on a surface pro) and then you have to pay almost double market rate for each RAM upgrade on top of that. Sometimes this is accompanied by forced upgrades to other components (CPU, display, storage) which you may not necessarily need and increases the total price further.

About signal integrity issues, sure you can argue that soldering is now a necessity to hit high end DDR5 speeds. However, manufacturers were soldering RAM a decade ago before the limitations of SODIMM socket signal integrity ever became a problem. At least now we have a new socket design designed to overcome these problems (LPCAMM2) with lower lower draw too, so I really hope that reaches mass adoption.

reddit_equals_censor@reddit

you are comparing things with so-dimms, this is wrong.

so-dimms do have major issues. clock scaling become a major problem for so-dimms with ddr5 and they also take up a lot of height.

the proper comparison between soldered lpddr5x is to compare it to camm modules with lpddr5x like lpcamm2 and socamm2.

lpcamm2 and socamm2 perform THE SAME as soldered on lpddr5x and they their height is below the highest point in the laptop easily. so there is 0 height issue for any laptop with those.

none of this is news. the industry is using soldered on memory to create planned obsolescence hardware and also massively upcharge for memory upgrades on hardware selection.

Thinner form factor and lower power consumption. The power consumption difference might be negligible when the CPU is pulling 80W, but when you’re streaming Netflix or typing a script in Google Docs, when the CPU is basically idle, a watt saved can add a good hour to the battery life.

I don’t know many people who’ve increased the RAM in their laptop as it got older. Most just use it for 5 years or whatever and get a new one.

Heck. I only upgraded the 1x16GB 2666 DDR4 SODIMM on my 2018 Coffee Lake HP Omen 15 in May 2025 because I managed to grab a matching DIMM for ₹2500 (USD 28).

ezkailez@reddit

me with a 8 year old 8250u here. came with 8gb but quickly upgraded to 16gb. casual use is still ok, for coding (i need wsl) 16gb is not enough, but the cpu is also not fast enough lol

so not really sad that i can't get 32gb, as the cpu can't handle it for my use case anyway

JayAlexanderBee@reddit

Honestly, all the soldered RAM I've owned is faster than stick RAM.

jaaval@reddit

You can't achieve the LPDDR speeds they use with sockets. The performance difference between LPDDR and DDR solutions is massive in graphics.

Its for speed and less latency and thinness, but i rather give up that for upgradeable memory as companies do everything to not care about consumers and this can be misused to make it so the user has to buy a new device when they want better ram or planned onsolesence.

ckdx_@reddit

Perhaps one minor perspective to add: sockets are not cheap in BoM cost (although admittedly a tiny fraction of chipset cost) and does have manufacturing implications. While the manufacturer does gain the ability to build machines to order (they just fit the appropriate RAM), there is a manufacturing overhead to this. You have to pay somebody to do final assembly. Soldered RAM on the other hand costs effectively zero additional manufacturing cost as it’s just another part of the SMT process.

Do either of these cause what you are seeing? Probably not, but it might be part of the picture.

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