Thoughts on hybrid cars taking over traditional cars?
Posted by Camara_Lukasik@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 96 comments
seeing more hybrids everywhere lately like even people who used to be super into gas cars are switching and not really looking back. kinda weird how fast it changed, feels like a few years ago hybrids were just that one quiet car everyone joked about. not even hating on them tho, the mileage and smooth driving actually makes sense for daily stuff. but part of me feels like something gets lost when everything starts feeling the same and quiet
where do you guys see this going, hybrids becoming the normal or just a step before something else takes over?
FailingComic@reddit
Hybrid will become the norm. Its all the benefits of an ev without range anxiety.
Camara_Lukasik@reddit (OP)
yeah that’s the part that makes it hard to argue against tbh, no range anxiety but still getting some of the efficiency benefits. i guess the only thing that still throws me off is the added complexity long term, but for everyday driving it does feel like the easiest transition for most people
FailingComic@reddit
Am mechanic, they arent more complex really.
Its just another system essentially but electronics in hybrid systems in general are as reliable if not more reliable than the ICE they are attached too.
The hybrid system is really just an electric motor and large battery pack. The charging system for it exists already on the ICE side. There are some other small differences depending on the specific setup but they overall are an extremely small added complexity and with the reliability of electronics these days, I dont even blink an eye at em. You never really hear of them breaking. Just battery packs needing replaced after a decade.
I also dont think EVs ever become the default. I think the push will eventually move to a different fuel type like hydrogen. Evs only have been leading the charge because its easy to adapt current infrastructure for them. As gas gets more and more expensive in the next century, hydrogen will be able to compete and I think you'll start seeing it dominate the market. Especially if we keep pushing for passive electricity generation like solar and wind mills which as far as I can tell just push up electricity prices. If nuclear power ever becomes the standard and more done, I think theres a chance EV becomes dominant.
goranlepuz@reddit
I don't understand how anyone can still mention hydrogen as a major fuel type.
It is environmentally unfriendly today and will stay inefficient overall, even if it made from electricity alone.
It's for niche applications only, in distant future when there's no petrol at all.
IAteTonysLoMein@reddit
Hydrogen as car fuel is a nonstarter. Unless someone can find a way to produce it very cheaply (currently, best is water electrolysis, which takes a lot of power and uses fresh water, which is just starting to have scarcity issues in places) and can figure out storage for an element composed of tiny little atoms that is also highly flammable.
FailingComic@reddit
Distant future. I dont see gas coming down in price. Hydrogen doesnt make sense cost wise until gasoline prices start getting higher and higher and then suddenly hydrogen will become possible. As far as storing it goes there are already 40 gas stations you can buy hydrogen at for Toyota and BMWs previous hydrogen cars so that doesnt seem to be an issue.
You also say highly flammable as if gasoline isnt highly flammable.
glasswings363@reddit
Compared to hydrogen gasoline is barely flammable.
Hydrogen leaks in open air? Not that scary. Hydrogen leak in an enclosed space? It will find any ignition source and explode. Hydrogen can even auto-ignite.
Hydrogen flames transfer heat by convection, there's very little radiant heat. Again, surprisingly safe in open air but terrifying in a garage or tunnel.
Battery fires need high volume water, gasoline fires need aqueous foam. There is no extinguishing agent for hydrogen fires.
Charging speed is similar to flash charging, stations are very expensive to build and operate. Hydrogen doesn't scale down to slow but convenient options like electric does. However, plug-in hybrid is possible, just not demonstrated.
For all that risk and cost and trouble the Mirai accelerates like an economy car. NVH is very good though, no worse than battery-electric.
Toowoombaloompa@reddit
We have potential to produce plentiful cheap, green hydrogen in northern Queensland. It is unlikely to end up in cars though. It's most likely to be converted to ammonia and shipped to countries like Japan where it can be turned back to hydrogen and used for grid-scale power generation.
Battery-electric cars and the infrastructure to support them are evolving so quickly it seems unlikely people are going to want to switch back to having to buying fuel at gas stations.
LoneWitie@reddit
Solar and wind are incredibly cheap for generating power. The issue is the inconsistency
I think grid level storage and sodium ion batteries will make them viable for large scale deployment. I dont think AI data centers are going away but any home owner can do panels and a home storage battery and run their EV for free. Tough to beat that
IAteTonysLoMein@reddit
"for free"...minus the $15k to $50k+ having all that solar and battery installed on your house.
And I'm by no means against solar - if I had the money, I'd have solar installers out next week. But the money is the issue.
re_use_me@reddit
Many people pay $200-$300 per month in gas. That's $15k every 4-5 years. Solar installs easily last 15-20 years, often under warranty
LoneWitie@reddit
Gotta go the DIY route. You can get 10kw of used panels on ebay for $2k and you can get 100kwh of Chinese LFP batteries for under $10k. The inverter will set you back but its way more doable than people think
geopolitikin@reddit
Your average consumer isnt ever going to do this.
FailingComic@reddit
Except with the economy and current housing prices, thats not viable for the masses to own a home. On a small scale solar makes sense.
The solar farms they are putting up dont. They promise lower bills but in the towns near me that got them, my grandma's, when they came online prices went up. The promise is once the farm is paid off the prices go down but with how panel technology is evolving, im not sure it will ever actually be paid off.
LoneWitie@reddit
Power prices are going up everywhere though because of AI data centers drawing so much of it, combined with catching up on overdue maintenance. I'm skeptical when someone blames solar farms for making the prices go up
Nuclear is one of the most expensive ways to generate electricity
Grid storage isn't quite cheap enough yet to make solar the obvious choice for generation, but within a decade it likely will be
beyondplutola@reddit
It takes much more energy to produce hydrogen than it returns. Hydrogen is a far less efficient storage medium for energy than lithium battery.
goranlepuz@reddit
Hybridation is also a way to simplify ICE powertrains.
For example, hybrids can do away with the turbo and use electricity instead for (immediate) torque.
They can also do away with the entire gearbox and the clutch (think EREVs like the Nissan or the Honda hybrids systems). The torque split device (eCVT) used by Toyota and Ford (and Stellantis, soon, I seem to have seen) is a gearbox, but is literally 5 gears (outer ring, three planets and the sun gear), much simpler than any manual or automatic gearbox.
Finally, they can do away with some of the belts, by using using the electric motors instead.
LoneWitie@reddit
Hybrids are usually more reliable. Most of them use e-cvt's, most of which (other than Honda, but their clutch system is solid) are way more reliable than traditional automatics and especially more reliable than CVT transmissions
They also dont have starters or alternators, which are common failure points on ICE cars.
Plus the electric motor handles stop and go and most driving under 15mph, which is by far the hardest thing on gas engines
Sometimes the complexity makes it better
Substantial_Team6751@reddit
Hybrids should have been pushed over EVs by the government. They provide like 95% of the benefit, have unlimited range, don't need a new charging infrastructure, and don't lose half their range in freezing temps.
goranlepuz@reddit
How do you get 95%?!
?! ?! How do you figure that?!
What does?!
I say, this is so far from reasonable that it should be deleted.
CuriousCat511@reddit
It has been shown that hybrids are as fuel efficient/clean as EVs in states that have expensive or coal based electricity.
Hybrids owners don't have range anxiety because they can refuel just about anywhere in minutes.
goranlepuz@reddit
Yes, but what you say is very unrelated to what the other person wrote and my questions to them.
(And... What they wrote is borderline idiocy.)
ScaryfatkidGT@reddit
I just hate how you can’t work on them due to the high voltage battery, or put a big sound system in them…
goranlepuz@reddit
It is not "all" benefits.
EVs are much cheaper for those who can charge at home. They are also quieter at low speeds (but largely not on the highway). Finally, slowly but surely, EVs become more reliable - because they are mechanically simpler.
rjlawrencejr@reddit
Hybrids are great for those who want to greatly increase their fuel efficiency. They benefit from having a high voltage battery. However they don’t have the benefits of an EV
KoalaGrunt0311@reddit
Meh. Hybrids are still a stepping stone. The ideal vehicle is a REV--Range Extended EV. This is an entirely EV drive system with a high voltage generator designed to extend range.
Hybrids are still trying to deal with two separate motion systems.
FailingComic@reddit
Some are some aren't. Depends on the specific system. The chevy volt had that exact system but got discontinued in 2019.
I dont see that ever taking the place though. The people that want evs want an ev and the people they dont, also aren't going to want an extended range ev. I know I personally would rather have a hybrid instead of the volt system.
IAteTonysLoMein@reddit
Chevy can't pull their heads from theirs asses. Killed the volt, released two variants of the Bolt, then killed both of them. Now re-releasing the Bolt and already announced it will only be for a year, which will kill it instantly - no one is going to want an EV with the impression it won't be supported.
therin_88@reddit
I'd never buy one. Makes no sense to drive a vehicle with so much unnecessary heavy equipment on board. You can easily get 40 MPG in a small turbocharged car anyway.
UnluckyGamer505@reddit
US or UK MPG?
(One would be 5.8l/100km, the other 7l/100km, thats why i am asking)
lowindustrycholo@reddit
Doesn’t the gas mileage of a hybrid drop significantly on the highway because of the weight of the batteries? Conversely, doesn’t that range on electric drop because of the weight of the engine?
Sounds to me that a hybrid is an inefficient vehicle.
LomentMomentum@reddit
I’d have bought a hybrid the last time I was in the market for a car, but it was more than I could afford. If the prices for hybrids/EVs matched traditional gas models (and hopefully that will happen), my next car will likely be one.
JCDU@reddit
Hybrid or outright EV will become the norm for most people because most people don't give a shit about cars, they just want to get to work, take the kids to school, etc. and those vehicles will become the most practical cost-effective and comfiest way to do that.
Honestly who cares - most cars on the roads are boring shitboxes anyway for the same reason, if they were all electric rather than ICE why would it matter? Are we losing a legendary driving experience if a suburban mom's Nissan Juke is powered by electricity instead of a medicore 4-banger tuned for economy and emissions?
LoneWitie@reddit
EVs will be the thing long term bur hybrids are a good short term solution
Once you drive an EV for an extended time, you realize its the future. They're just flat out better. And you realize how quickly things like range anxiety and infrastructure (if you can charge at home) are just not as big a deal as people fear
But hybrids are a great short term stop gap. They're usually more reliable than gas cars anyway, on top of the better fuel economy
Toowoombaloompa@reddit
Range anxiety seems to be more of a barrier to buying an EV rather than a concern of actual EV owners.
Sig-vicous@reddit
I just want a manual. But they'll likely never make one in a hybrid. So guess that means I'm ICE until I die. At least for my fun car. I could care less what my commuter car is.
Suitable_Diver_2395@reddit
BMW 330e driver here.
It's my second hybrid car and here are my pro and cons:
+Hybrid car acceleration is amazing, the momentum comes straight from e-engine.
+l/100m (hello from Europe) are low, with my 2l and pretty dynamic style I stay under 7-8l in city, 5l highway. My friend on 330i who drives like I do has a fuel consumption at least 11l in city and 7,5l on highwway
-if you want to repair something, for example oil pan, transmission etc-it is way more complicated because of hybrid parts.
-some people are not sure about hybrid, therefore sometimes its hard to sell them.
Best_Market4204@reddit
Something gets lost?
Like noise pollution & smog?
I feel like that's okay.
ScaryfatkidGT@reddit
Hybrids were severely stunted by Tesla and everyone going for full electric… before realizing there isn’t enough market for them
tnsipla@reddit
Hybrids will normalize purely out of fully gas cars being made more shoddily
eCVTs are very reliable, even more so than CVTs and automatics, and even these days, Toyota is doing a horrible job of making reliable fully gasoline cars- which should show where the wind is going, when the traditional king of reliability can't even do it reliably anymore
Less_Improvement8583@reddit
Hybrid are much much faster compare to 15 years ago ..200hp hybrids! We didnt even think of. It will get better! Tbh I hope there will be a hybrid Miata that give battery boost lol 😆
Expert-Masterpiece70@reddit
I was in a Lyft this morning and it was a Toyota Highlander Hybrid he said he gets an average of 35mpg and it was $45k. And it's chock full of screens and electronics. My 2008 Audi A6 gets 26mpg and I bought it last May for $6k with 104,000miles on it. One MMI Screen and minimal electronics.
Diligent-Body-5062@reddit
Hybrid is becoming the norm. Unlike ev cars, they are practical. A new kind is coming with a very small engine. A 25hp engine will keep a short range RV going and importantly, give heat in winter, and charge the car when you can't otherwise.
Sketch2029@reddit
Hybrids are still gas cars.
Similar_Task_2132@reddit
And electric right?
rjlawrencejr@reddit
Sometimes. Depends on if the engine is a generator or for propulsion.
Similar_Task_2132@reddit
Wait, even if th engine was for propulsion would it not still be part electric?
rjlawrencejr@reddit
Yes, part electric. But that’s why we use the term HEV or hybrid electric vehicle.
Similar_Task_2132@reddit
So why did you say sometimes
rjlawrencejr@reddit
Because an HEV can’t be driven on battery alone. Ever.
YoureMadImBackBigMac@reddit
There’s plenty of hybrid gas cars that can drive only on battery for 20-40 miles what
rjlawrencejr@reddit
Those are PHEVs or EREVs. Not basic hybrids.
FlintHillsSky@reddit
the power still comes from gasoline
Similar_Task_2132@reddit
After searching up how hybrids work, does power not come from both sources?
FlintHillsSky@reddit
A regular hybrid gets its power from gasoline. There is a small battery that caches regenerate power that goes to an electric motor to augment the gas engine but the source of the power is the gas tank.
a plugin hybrid has a larger battery that can be charged from electricity and that then has a dual power source, assuming that the owner plugs it in.
Similar_Task_2132@reddit
Ok makes sense, thank you so much!
Similar_Task_2132@reddit
I thought it came from both lol, good to know
ohdeargodwhyme@reddit
I have a hybrid and live in a place that gets really cold in the winter.
So even with a full battery I get extremely short range in the winter. But now when it gets warmer I can do all my commuting on electricity which is a lot cheaper.
From an economic standpoint this is a better option than a normal car in the same size.
Minerva_TheB17@reddit
Series hybrids are what we need to invest in. Best way to make an ICE last decades and burn most efficiently. Engine acts as a generator to charge battery instead of powering wheels directly. Engine never has to see super high rpm, can run E85 to make an even cleaner burn and minimize carbon buildup, will run at optimal rpm and only bump up slightly when extremely high demand for power is present.
alien_believer_42@reddit
I like having an EV way more than a hybrid. It’s nicer to drive, cheaper to run, way less maintenance, no gas station trips. Though i have another gas car for longer trips.
jestem-lama@reddit
I see the hybrid as I see the turbo or compressor. More power and less fuel consumption, with added benefit of EV mode on short routes.
Something like a 320d with a hybrid system would be a perfect car. You get 1000km+ range for trips and EV mode for city to better preserve your dpf.
pigeonwithhat@reddit
it’s not about the environment. it’s about control. the govt has documents published specifically saying they hope to have control over new vehicles at some point in time.
quit_fucking_about@reddit
I was an auto mechanic for a decade. I specialized in engine repair. I recently bought an EV and there is no way in hell I will ever go back to ICE. It would feel like going back to a flip phone.
Personally, I think the only way someone opposes hybrids and EVs is if they either A - have their mind made up before they try them, or B - only ever tried the shittiest versions of them, like a 2013 Leaf.
Fit-Ad-7430@reddit
Have u seen the price of gas? Lmao
RightGuy23@reddit
All the new Toyota Camrys are now hybrid and electric!
Heck. Gas is almost $6/gallon. Hybrid cars will be selling like crazy this year. I’m almost tempted to get a hybrid.
Rough_Cancel7265@reddit
Plug in hybrids to me are largely useless unless you have a very specific use case. A commute of 20-30 miles AND regular drives of over 400 miles. But regarding other hybrids, I don't see a solid argument for keeping gas powertrains unassisted in some way. Even in a performance setting, the torque fill capabilities should be welcomed
RedditNomad7@reddit
They tried to jump to EVs way too fast. Hybrids will be the dominant car (at least in the US) for the next decade or two, possibly three. Once fast charging stations are as common as gas stations, it will start to shift towards fully electric vehicles.
Supah1gh@reddit
I love my hybrid Corolla
Finance 30k in 2024 felt bad at first
Now looking back at it I think I made one of the best purchases of my life
Charnathan@reddit
It's a trend. They want the best of both worlds (ICE and Battery/electric) but they end up with the worst of both worlds. You have two power units to maintain and neither does what it's supposed to as good as a power unit dedicated to the purpose. And now you have a car with twice as many parts that will probably depreciate twice as fast because so many things will inevitably fail and need replacing. So for now, I'm sticking to ICE until I'm ready to go all in on electric.
DayGeckoArt@reddit
Totally false. You get a car that lets an ICE operate how it wants to and use electric how it works best. Hence much better longevity and reliability. Of course much higher efficiency too! There is a reason the most popular taxis are hybrid
Camara_Lukasik@reddit (OP)
kinda get what you mean tbh, the whole two systems in one thing does sound like more stuff that could go wrong down the line but at the same time i keep hearing people say hybrids are actually pretty solid long term, like the systems don’t get stressed as much since they kinda share the load. not sure how true that is in real life tho vs just on paper
Charnathan@reddit
Do they need gas? Yes. Do they need oil? Yes. Do they need oil changes? Yes. Do they have multiple cooling systems(oil, ICE, battery) yes. Do they have drive belts? Yes. Intake air filters? Yes. Do they have an extremely expensive battery that will inevitably and predictably fail leaving the vehicle mechanically totalled? Yes
Like if you have an electric, you have a battery, a cooling system, and fairly direct power to the wheels with no drive belt, no oil, no engine coolant system, and engine air intake, no fuel system, etc. You just gotta eventually pay for that battery. But none of that standard 3000mile maintenance stuff. Usually the motor is under warranty for a pretty good while and they don't fail often. And their actually super simple to replace.
With ICE, it's the opposite. No big ass battery. You just have to spend a lot more time at the shop replacing little bits at a time until eventually your transmission fails or timing change fails and bricks you block.
But with a hybrid your are doing all the slow failure maintenance while also dreading the inevitable battery replacement day.
DizzyAstronaut9410@reddit
I used to think this but it's not correct at all.
Especially in city driving, you get exceptional fuel economy and your engine isn't running half of the time, which actually reduces wear. Then you get the range of an ICE and don't have to worry about charging it.
You get a lot of the perks of electric, without the annoying parts of owning an electric.
Critical-Magician421@reddit
This is not true
cilvre@reddit
I went with a full hybrid at the end of 2020 because it made sense for fuel economy and still good power (rav4 hybrid), and boy it made itself valuable since a few months later russia invaded ukraine and hosed fuel markets for a bit. And now with the stupid antics going on against iran, its been helpful in eeking out more mileage with rto
IAteTonysLoMein@reddit
I bought a used cx-5 on Valentine's day. Like a week later, I had a moment of "damn, should I have gone for a rav4 hybrid?" And I looked at pricing and thought, "nah, they're still a little spendy"....now regular gas is six goddamn dollars a gallon
redsnowman45@reddit
Hybrids have been around for close to 20yrs or more and are proven reliable technology. They are not a trend or going away anytime soon. I think we will see more plug in hybrids and more platforms that will be fully hybrid. When the Prius came out it was made fun of for so long. Say what you will but that platform has proven to be one of the most reliable on the market.
IAteTonysLoMein@reddit
Part of the thing with the Prius was the first couple gens at least were ass-ugly. Been entertaining to see it kinda slowly stretch into what's almost a normal-looking sedan over the years.
steak5@reddit
Look up Blue Nexus electric drive. They are mainly own by Toyota.
The main reason Hybrid power train seeped into many manufacturers is because Toyota is selling their Hybrid Powertrain to anyone who wants to buy them at a very reasonable price. A lot of Hybrid out there are Toyota System.
NoPersimmon7434@reddit
Hybrids are definitely replacing ICE-only cars. If there were more hybrid vehicles with V8s, I’d probably consider buying one. A lot of them are lacking in the soul department, but I assume I’m one of the few people who still makes that a priority when looking at new cars.
CBusHVAC710614@reddit
I won’t buy anything but a hybrid from here on out. Besides my FL5.
I have a Maverick Hybrid and a Grand Highlander Hybrid.
They are actually far LESS complex than a traditional ICE only vehicle as the eCVT alone is very simple yet robust using planetary gears and paired to generator motor and drive motor - that alone makes it more simple than a vehicle with a traditional automatic (or CVT). Then they don’t have alternators or starters and their ACs are often electric scroll motors.
They are smooth to drive, powerful under 40mph, and are quiet and efficient.
My hope is as hybrids become more mainstream they move to a slightly larger battery (1.1kwh now to maybe 2-3kwh) with increased electric motor power to allow it to reach even greater efficiency numbers.
DayGeckoArt@reddit
Hybrids should have taken over two decades ago. I think South Park is largely too blame for anti hybrid sentiment, and then later when electric cars became practical a stupid mindset that "you might as well go electric " took hold. If you look at the big picture, battery raw materials are extremely limited. Imagine 100 units of raw materials. It takes a ton of labor and resources to extract them and it damages 1000 units of land. Imagine each hybrid car takes 5 units of raw materials to build the battery. An electric takes 100. So you can either make 20 hybrids or you can build 1 electric and 19 conventional cars. Which is better for the environment? The NPC who can't think beyond his own programming swears the electric is better for the environment. A person with common sense recognizes the hybrids are better.
dalekaup@reddit
Lithium batteries are expensive. With a hybrid you get 1/3 better MPG while using 1/20th the amount of Lithium. So we can save 3x gas with 100 kwh battery or 1x gas x 20 = 20x gas with the same Lithium.
Hybrids are a better use of Lithium.
_Molj@reddit
ThEy wiLl NoT rEpLaCe uS
knight9665@reddit
I dont care.
Hybrids use to be be sht. Like the forst gen prius. Stupid slow. Now a days supercars have hybrid systems.
Never_mind_honey@reddit
Hybrids are not taking over, they are just a stepping stone to full electric for those who are still reluctant to go full or can’t afford to. Give it another fifteen years and electric prices will be low enough to phase out hybrids and gas will mostly be reserved for trucks, elite sports cars, and old beaters driven by stubborn old fools who can’t let go (I might be one of those)
guyfromthepicture@reddit
I don't think this framework is how things really play out. Cars are bought to serve a purpose. I think for the majority of purposes a person has, the ev is better.
bangbangracer@reddit
I don't think EVs are the real future. Battery technology needs a huge jump for them to truly and 100% replace what an ICE or hybrid car can do, and if you really cared about the environment, cars aren't the way to go since individual car transportation is so inefficient compared to buses and trains.
Hybridization makes sense to me.
bigolebite@reddit
Hybrids make a lot of sense and some manufacturers have done them very well. I think PHEVs and ultra efficient hybrids are the future if bot full ev
DependentAd235@reddit
Until there is another jump in battery energy capacity yeah.
If they can get base range for a standard model up to 500 miles, I think electric will take over. I know some can do it now but 300-350 seems more common.
Camara_Lukasik@reddit (OP)
like if they’re done right it feels like a really practical middle ground instead of going full electric right away. phevs especially seem interesting, being able to do short trips on electric but still not worry about charging on longer drives sounds pretty nice for daily use.
Biobizlab@reddit
Hybrids are essentially the norm now with new cars. Look at how many Toyota come only in hybrid.
Camara_Lukasik@reddit (OP)
btw, im driving a 2010 honda crv, what cars you do you drive?
PageRoutine8552@reddit
If it’s not a manual fun-oriented car, hybrid / electric makes all the sense, and it’s pointless having ICE in them.
Engines are shockingly inefficient in start-stop traffic, and eCVT beats all the other auto gearboxes in power delivery and reliability.
The future looks to be a tug-of-war between hybrids and EV, one for long-range and one for efficiency and simplicity. Unless there’s a major breakthrough in physics, the kind that only happens once every few hundred years.
CactusSkies@reddit
Some of the manufactures did it correctly, such as removing the torque converter and replacing it with an electric motor. This helps negate some of the negatives of basically having two powertrain systems that you have to take care of.
Also battery tech technology is improved a lot in the last decade and people are seeing more long-term reliability out of electric cars.
Typoe1991@reddit
I really believe hybrids are the future more than EVs. It’s a good transition point until the EV charging network becomes fast enough, wide spread enough, and affordable enough to make EVs make sense for all use cases