Why do early 20th century American men have that “vintage American accent”?
Posted by Happy-Lingonberry538@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 57 comments
I am referring to people like Jimmy Stewart, Cliff Edwards, and Al Jolson.
I love it, but I am also curious on why it was so prominent, I don’t think I know any American men who speak like that.
sean8877@reddit
See: Frasier and Niles
lolafawn98@reddit
I want to know about the non trans atlantic version of this. there is a different one that appears on people who were not media trained. athletes, street interviews, that kind of thing. it’s distinct, you never hear it anymore, and it is not the one in Hollywood films.
Current_Mongoose_844@reddit
Do you mean trans-atlantic?
Happy-Lingonberry538@reddit (OP)
I honestly don’t know what that is.
ryguymcsly@reddit
It’s a deliberate accent adopted by hollywood and certain social circles in the 30s and 40s. It combines the New England/Manhattan accent with a bit of UK vowel sounds and other things. Most mainstream US movie and radio stars up through the 60s went kinda hard on it.
While there are a lot of stories about how the accent developed, I think the explanation I heard the most is that the microphones and speakers of the time kinda sucked so the accent was taught in classes because it was designed to come through with clarity on the equipment.
FivebyFive@reddit
That's actually a myth.
The trans Atlantic accent was real, maybe affected by some, but real to many.
https://youtu.be/9xoDsZFwF-c?si=VvzxjxWJ0XUddQLo
Tommy_Wisseau_burner@reddit
I honestly didn’t get through the whole thing (I’m dumb and put my phone down and got rid of the video I’m too lazy to finish) but his point doesn’t really make sense. Of course I can concede that I’m:
1- not an expert and
2- I didn’t fully digest all of the points
His argument kind of falls apart, for me, towards what I did get through. One of his claims was that, by the time of golden age Hollywood there wasn’t a “standard American accent”. I do believe that. However, maybe he explains this, but I don’t know if there was an influx of British immigration between 1870-1940 like other groups. The reason it’s important is because the transatlantic accent relies on a combination of RP and American English. But RP didn’t become a British standard until 1870. I could be ignorant (probably am) but I just have a hard time believing without a huge influx of British influence, especially in New York, that it wouldn’t become a natural staple within American English.
I’ll give it a full listen, and I’m sure he addresses this, but I couldn’t get past that point based on when I stopped. The divergence point of these countries is just too far back to have American English influenced that I just have a hard time understanding how it would be naturally regional.
FivebyFive@reddit
Here's an article that explores how the accent came to be an how it was maintained, if you're interested in a second source by a credentialed expert.
https://literaryashland.org/?p=10803
nerowasframed@reddit
I love that you posted Geoff Lindsey. As soon as I saw this question, I knew someone was going to repeat that myth, and I had this video already locked and loaded. I love his channel.
Raelf64@reddit
The Harvard Lockjaw accent, lol.
TheVentiLebowski@reddit
You're thinking of the Locust Valley Lockjaw accent, which is a bit different than the Transatlantic Accent.
myfourmoons@reddit
Yeah they don’t sound remotely similar lol
MCE85@reddit
This is what ive heard as well
DrWooolyNipples@reddit
It’s American English with a lot of British pronunciation designed to be understood by both audiences for commercial purposes in film and news.
Everyone calls it “fake” but I know people today that talk like that as it passed down.
FivebyFive@reddit
I don't know where the trend started to call it fake it's absolutely real. But every time it comes up there's a bunch of people in the comments talking about how fake it was.
https://youtu.be/9xoDsZFwF-c?si=VvzxjxWJ0XUddQLo
DrWooolyNipples@reddit
Fantastic video, thanks for sharing that.
champ11228@reddit
It's the term for the kind of accent you are probably thinking about
BlackFoeOfTheWorld@reddit
If so, and I believe it is, it was fake.
StretPharmacist@reddit
Unfortunately that accent was bombed in the war
Bright_Ices@reddit
That accent narrated the World Wars.
Pitiful_Fox5681@reddit
No, Jimmy Stewart had a distinctive Pennsylvania accent.
I think the answer to the OP's question is a little multifaceted. First, regional accents in the US have flattened out considerably due to more widespread national media.
Second, recording technology at the time meant that actors had to speak very deliberately, so Jimmy Stewart opened his mouth up, slowed his pace down, and sometimes stretched his syllables out.
Third, I think Jimmy Stewart had a fair bit more "r" in his vowels than other actors of his day. No idea why. Maybe it was idiolect-driven.
But basically his accent sounded old time because it was old timey.
Raelf64@reddit
You're spot on, though I've also heard that the deliberate speech was a holdover from Vaudeville and stage acting; actors were taught that particular method of speech for clarity. It carried into American life through media, movies and radio.
siestarrific@reddit
That's gotta be what they mean even if they don't know the actual term
OK_Stop_Already@reddit
I think you're talking about a trans-atlantic accent, which was a way of speaking taught in acting schools for actors and actresses back then. They wanted to make a standardized "world english" for film. Literally just made up to make film and tv fancier.
Happy-Lingonberry538@reddit (OP)
Oh ok.
Thank you!
FivebyFive@reddit
It's actually not made up that's just a myth.
https://youtu.be/9xoDsZFwF-c?si=VvzxjxWJ0XUddQLo
hmgg@reddit
Honest, no bs question: What makes this youtube video true vs other sources? I didn't spent too much time researching, but seems like every other source says it's fake (close to a real accent, but still made up). Again, not trying to argue, just learn.
Italuartcom9@reddit
Lindsey is a serious, professional linguist and scholar, the others are largely just "content creators" regurgitating wikipedia and other videos. If you watch the video he makes a pretty convincing case for why others are wrong.
hmgg@reddit
I'll take your word but I'm not talking tiktoks or youtube videos. Even wikipedia with links and articles contradicts this.
Italuartcom9@reddit
Did you watch Dr. Lindsey's video? Probably the best way to come to a conclusion for yourself.
hmgg@reddit
Fair, haven't had the time to do so yet, just wanted to understand why it's legit before sinking 30 minutes into it. Will watch as soon as I get a chance.
FivebyFive@reddit
Because of the source.
He happens to have a YouTube channel, he's not "just another youtuber".
*Lindsey holds a BA in Linguistics from UCL and an MA and PhD from University of California Los Angeles.[2][3] His PhD thesis, Intonation and Interrogation: Tonal Structure and the Expression of a Pragmatic Function in English and Other Languages, was completed in 1985.[1]
He is an Honorary Lecturer in Linguistics at University College London (UCL), *
TheCloudForest@reddit
This is false, by the way.
GSilky@reddit
The transatlantic accent was a learned affect for speaking. Another one was the preacher voice of people like Marcus Garvey and Dr. King. Before TV made everything a visual presentation, it sounded more impressive on radio. Everyone had a presentation voice if they were in the habit. Last person I remember it on thick was what's his name, argued with Gore Vidal during the Chicago DNC and called him a queer.
LAWriter2020@reddit
The “Transatlantic” accent was basically the accent taught in prep schools and then continued in the Ivy League colleges - the American version of a a “posh” accent. Also known as a “Bryn Mahr” accent for the “main line” suburbs of Philadelphia, as spoken by Katherine Hepburn (even made fun of by Spencer Tracy in one or their movies together). It became a standard on stage, then on radio and screen. Died out in the “realism” of movies and TV starting in the 1960s.
Efficient-Panic3506@reddit
part of it is real, part of it is acting, and part of it is just that nobody today says words like “butter” with that level of commitment anymore
21schmoe@reddit
You may be talking about the Transatlantic accent, which as others said, kinda sounds like Northeast American with UK features.
It was enforced in media in the early 20th century as the standard. It gradually faded away in favor of General American, which is based this region here (a strip of land across central Ohio, central Indiana, central Illinois, into Missouri and Nebraska).
The Transatlantic accent was taught in wealthy schools as a proper manner of speaking, and also to actors, politicians, and people in the media.
Many people say it was a constructed accent, but it's not entirely true. It's believed to be rooted in the Upper classes of the Northeast. But with media, it evolved further, because in the early days of radio and film, when sound quality was poor, there was a need to enunciate certain sounds.
After 1950 it gradually stared falling out of favor. The media, news anchors, switched to General American (based on that region I pointed to earlier). TV sitcoms that portrayed middle class people, like I Love Lucy, Leave it to Beaver, also switched to General American. And regional accents to portray the working class (like the Honeymooners).
By the 1960s and 1970s, the Transatlantic Accent was used to caricature wealthy people. Think Mrs Howell on Gilligan's Island.
LetterheadClassic306@reddit
that's called the transatlantic accent or mid-atlantic accent. it wasn't really how normal people talked - it was taught in elocution classes for theater and radio. actors like jimmy stewart learned it to sound more refined on screen. by the 1960s it died out because naturalistic acting became the norm. no one actually grew up speaking like that outside of prep schools.
Electrical-Quarter96@reddit
Transatlantic isn’t a natural accent, it was used for theatre and radio. It’s practically extinct in the modern day as a way of speaking, but still sees some use in entertainment, mostly for period films
rockettaco37@reddit
It was mainly a learned thing and not most people’s natural way of speaking.
TheCloudForest@reddit
"Why did people 100 years ago speak differently from today?"
Seriously?
It's called trans-Atlantic, it was a common upper class or upper middle class accent throughout the Northeast. Be careful when researching because there is a TON of online content which is basically click-bait claiming that the accent was essentially invented and artificial, but there is only a small grain of truth to that idea. In fact, this attempt to "correct" the misconception that people used to talk weird and it was really a forced acting style is itself a misconception.
Commercial-Candy-926@reddit
Heavily edited AI response. I approve and respect this, proper use for the modern world, nothing just "left over" from the prompt response!
Boopa0011@reddit
I ... I have to imagine they wouldn't have asked the question if they weren't serious about it?
Also, they aren't asking why people spoke differently 100 years ago, they are asking why so much media from the period features people speaking the same distinctive way.
Why do people approach answering these questions like they've just been challenged to a duel?
TheKaptinKirk@reddit
TIL!
pyramidalembargo@reddit
OP, there's another answer.
Some old Hollywood actors did use Transatlantic accent.
But others, like James Stewart, did not. And that's what I think you're referring to.
The truth is that American accents have changed. All language does.
In prewar English, several distinctive features stand put. The biggest one, in my opinion, is how they say "batt-her" for batter, while we say,"badder". Or "butt-her" for butter. (We say "budder") Or "leave-her" for "lever". (We say "lee-vuhr".)
Some of them will say "aye-ree-uh", for "area". We say "err-ee-uh."
Once you listen for this, you'll notice it all the time.
Our language has changed. You were right all along.
New-Process-52@reddit
Idk its a weird attempt at sounding sopjisticated
Chance-Ad197@reddit
It was a lingo created strategically in order to establish a uniformed expectation of the English language through film, back when unrealistic and narrow formula was the target for good film theory, not realism, authenticity and originality. People aren’t lying when they say times used to “be simpler” and for a long time the point of entertainment was familiar comfort, low effort comprehension, formality and strategic uniformity, those were the components that made up a piece of entertainment media that people used to appreciate and love. As humanity evolves psychologically we have shifted into an era where the desires of the average consumer are much more based in heavy stimulation, complexity, nuance, realism and grand spectacle, so the idea of one universal English accent across all film, especially one that isn’t at all natural or relatable to reality died off along with the general public’s desire for more of the same of everything.
Many_Inevitable_6803@reddit
Do you mean they were theatrically trained?
-RedRocket-@reddit
It was for recording, and to be understood over radio - the mass media of the time.
TheCloudForest@reddit
It's the accent explained in this video by Dr. Geoff LIndsey.
Happy-Lingonberry538@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the link!
pizzaanarchy@reddit
“Atlantic” accent. It is how they taught diction, voice and acting.
dwhite21787@reddit
We mostly sound like Oliver Hardy or Robert Taylor or Fred MacMurray
big_data_mike@reddit
It was a fake accent used for tv, radio, and movies
Dazzling-Astronaut88@reddit
If you want to entertain yourself, say the word “shrubbery” in the voice of Jimmy Stewart.
Round-Lab73@reddit
It was meant to create an air of refinement I think, as well as to reach a wide audience by not nailing the speaker down to any one specific place. You don't hear it anymore because schools stopped teaching it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_American_Speech?wprov=sfla1
TomBombomb@reddit
It's a Trans Atlantic accent and it's probably a combination of how they were raised and how they were taught to speak for the stage.